Amazon is running ads for its Original Stories on BookBub

[Tom Wood]

I just thought this was curious to see.



ETA: The ad goes to this page:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WK7PVFT/

[Bill Hiatt]

It was inevitable.

[Tom Wood]

It was inevitable.

What do you mean?

There are at least a couple of ways to look at it:

1. Amazon respects BB and its customers as a worthwhile market to target.
2. Amazon can easily buy out this ad space for the indefinite future, forcing everyone else to AA/AMS.

[Arches]

It was inevitable.

What do you mean?

There are at least a couple of ways to look at it:

1. Amazon respects BB and its customers as a worthwhile market to target.
2. Amazon can easily buy out this ad space for the indefinite future, forcing everyone else to AA/AMS.

As for your second point, Bookbub and Amazon have an arms-length relationship. In particular, Bookbub has a well known animosity to KU and  makes it ridiculously hard to get a featured deal with a KU title. Why? I don't know, but I doubt Bookbub is going to let Amazon overwhelm Bookbub's ad program with Amazon Publishing titles.

[TimothyEllis]

As for your second point, Bookbub and Amazon have an arms-length relationship. In particular, Bookbub has a well known animosity to KU and  makes it ridiculously hard to get a featured deal with a KU title. Why? I don't know, but I doubt Bookbub is going to let Amazon overwhelm Bookbub's ad program with Amazon Publishing titles.

Amazon could very easily put them out of business. It wouldn't take much of a threat to make BB give them preference.

All Amazon need to do is remove BB sales from the rank algorithm, and BB would fail as authors abandoned them. I'm not saying they would do something like that, but it would be easy for them to do it.

In fact, they don't even need to target BB. If they removed the spike on ranks from promotions completely, all of them would fold, forcing authors to use AMS instead.

There might be animosity between Amazon and BB, but if it came to war, BB would lose badly.

[LilyBLily]

Amazon has previously targeted BookBub. I believe it was a couple of years ago when Amazon made the affiliate code BB used void. Correct me if I am wrong. Apparently, they've mended fences since.

BB would want to be very careful with Amazon, and at the same time BB would be foolish to wipe out its relationships with authors just to run Amazon's own ads. Amazon is not BB's only market.

[Tom Wood]

...

There are at least a couple of ways to look at it:

1. Amazon respects BB and its customers as a worthwhile market to target.
2. Amazon can easily buy out this ad space for the indefinite future, forcing everyone else to AA/AMS.

As for your second point, Bookbub and Amazon have an arms-length relationship. In particular, Bookbub has a well known animosity to KU and  makes it ridiculously hard to get a featured deal with a KU title. Why? I don't know, but I doubt Bookbub is going to let Amazon overwhelm Bookbub's ad program with Amazon Publishing titles.

I was being over-dramatic to create a wide spectrum of possible behaviors. I doubt that BB would allow that either. They may not have any particular animosity with KU - at the 2017(?) 20BooksTo50K conference in Vegas, the BB speaker specifically said that it's a good idea to put 'Available in KU' in your ads there. It's in one of the YouTube videos from the event.

[Simon Haynes]

I'm running a BB ad at the moment, and I have 'All 10 books in KU' right there at the bottom. I found it pretty hard selling wide books on BB, but the conversion rate does seem to be better with the same titles in KU.

[Arches]

I'm running a BB ad at the moment, and I have 'All 10 books in KU' right there at the bottom. I found it pretty hard selling wide books on BB, but the conversion rate does seem to be better with the same titles in KU.

I was referring to KU books in featured deals, not BB's ad program. They'll happily run ads for KU books, but I've seen many KU authors complain over the years about how hard it is to get a BB featured deal, and that's been my experience, too.

[Arches]

As for your second point, Bookbub and Amazon have an arms-length relationship. In particular, Bookbub has a well known animosity to KU and  makes it ridiculously hard to get a featured deal with a KU title. Why? I don't know, but I doubt Bookbub is going to let Amazon overwhelm Bookbub's ad program with Amazon Publishing titles.

Amazon could very easily put them out of business. It wouldn't take much of a threat to make BB give them preference.

All Amazon need to do is remove BB sales from the rank algorithm, and BB would fail as authors abandoned them. I'm not saying they would do something like that, but it would be easy for them to do it.

In fact, they don't even need to target BB. If they removed the spike on ranks from promotions completely, all of them would fold, forcing authors to use AMS instead.

There might be animosity between Amazon and BB, but if it came to war, BB would lose badly.

I understand your point about Amazon having far more clout in the publishing business than BB, but Amazon is in a difficult regulatory environment within the US at the moment. It's already part of a formal Justice Department investigation for antitrust and noncompetitive behavior. I understand the gist of the complaints from the traditional publishing industry is that Amazon favors its inhouse publishing imprints. I doubt that will lead to much because in the US, most retailers have a house brand they sell alongside products from third parties.

But if Amazon used its market power to damage a competitor with a rival advertising service, that could get Amazon into a much more difficult situation with regard to the Justice Department and state attorneys general.

[Simon Haynes]

I'm running a BB ad at the moment, and I have 'All 10 books in KU' right there at the bottom. I found it pretty hard selling wide books on BB, but the conversion rate does seem to be better with the same titles in KU.

I was referring to KU books in featured deals, not BB's ad program. They'll happily run ads for KU books, but I've seen many KU authors complain over the years about how hard it is to get a BB featured deal, and that's been my experience, too.

Yes, I understood you meant featured deals.  I was side-tracking a bit.

[TimothyEllis]

Are we saying Amazon is getting featured deals? 

[dgcasey]

Are we saying Amazon is getting featured deals? 

No, they're buying that bottom ad. Of course, nothing would stop them from applying for a Featured Deal if they wanted, but I think they'd probably make the author pay for those.

[notthatamanda]

Veering off the original topic warning.

Why would Veronica Roth publish a short story through Amazon originals?

She's got a book coming out with Houghton Mifflin Harcourt April 2020.  Did HMH not lock her down for exclusivity? Seems strange to me.

[Tom Wood]

The ads from Amazon are showing up more frequently than I noticed before:


ETA: The ad itself links to here: https://www.amazon.com/Robert-Dugoni/e/B001IR1RJC/

As to why Veronica Roth and the others in this list would publish at Amazon Originals:


ETA: There's a sixth book by Andy Weir that is on the next page of this carousel.


It probably has to do with being able to use them as a magnet like this:

[notthatamanda]

I'm just wondering how these deals are working, between the author, their trade publisher and Amazon.  My guess is Amazon is actively working with the trades on these, but it's just a guess.

[Anarchist]

Ads-savvy folks are putting these ads in their swipe files.

[notthatamanda]

Swipe file?

[dgcasey]

Swipe file?

If he's using it the same way I am, he means when you see one of these ads, you swipe it, you steal it and stick it in your ad examples file for use later when creating your own ads. You have to think that Amazon is paying some pretty expensive ad people to design these ads, so they should be great examples of what a good ad looks like.

[notthatamanda]

Okay thank you.  I wouldn't know how to copy it, but that's okay because I can't really design my own ad either.

[WasAnn]

Amazon has been using BB ads for a while. It's very interesting. A lot of KU and Prime reads, which targets even more heavily the KU portion of the readers on BB, which BB is trying to get away from for book buyers rather than book borrowers. KU stopped being featured heavily in the featured deals right about the same time...okay...the exact month that Zon got them for using one aff code for free books and one for paid books, thereby ensuring they got a good aff code payout on all their paid deals. Coincidink? Me thinks not.

Also, KU isn't a sale, so it doesn't bring in aff income unless they buy something else while still on their code. Since KU readers also tend to be on multiple NL lists (based on two years of informal surveys), they change to the next NL's aff code when they click in the next NL and since KU readers tend to grab all books that interest them, it happens a lot.

In short, revenue for BB from KU readers is significantly less than it is for book buyers, even if they actually click on a free book deal. Anyone who has experienced the joy of a free feature on BB can attest to the fact that many who click on that free book also grab the whole series right then...which is aff money for BB.

Amazon advertising on BB re-targets the KU audience in BB and engages them. It's cute.

[TimothyEllis]

Okay thank you.  I wouldn't know how to copy it, but that's okay because I can't really design my own ad either.

Me either.

Can someone post a copy of what's being talked about?

[Lynn]

Generally speaking, right click (from the BB email or wherever the ads are showing up) and save as, and put the amazon ads in a folder where you keep ad samples and stuff to use the next time you want to make an ad. Look at it, imitate the best elements and reap the rewards. Or send it to your ad person and ask them to imitate it.

If I've got it wrong, someone correct me please. :D

[TimothyEllis]

Not getting BB emails. Makes it a tad difficult to click on. 

[notthatamanda]

I was able to right click on the ad in Tom's original post and it gave me the option to save it.  I didn't try because creating that type of ad is way above my skill set.  I'm using Explorer, don't know if that would matter.

Tom - did you click on the ad in the BB email and what did it take you to?  There are three books in that ad, did it pick one, or just a general Amazon Originals page?  Were those three books on it?
Just curious.

[Tom Wood]

It goes to this page:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WK7PVFT/

That page is for 'The Forward Collection' which are the six books in the carousel shown in the post upstream under the ad for the Robert Dugoni book.

Tim - We're talking about the 300x250 rectangular ads that BookBub runs at the bottom of their daily emails. The example in my original post in this thread is a copy of an image for one of those ads. There's another one a few posts upstream for a book by Robert Dugoni. These are self-service ads that are separate from the BookBub Featured Deals that you have to apply for.

I'll edit those posts to show the destinations of the ads.

[Tonyonline]

Can someone post a copy of what's being talked about?

Creating shelf ads. It's very easy to create one with a photo editor. I have one I use for creating basic ads, like I use on twitter, see my sig and link to twitter to see those I've created, all very basic but do the trick.
This one below, I made with your book cover, took about 15 mins to create, after finding the shelf and background image on pixabay. Ok it looks like that, but it's fun to do.
I enjoy playing about with my photo editor. I use affinity photo editor, it's cheap to buy but very powerful. There is so much you can do with it, if you have the time to spend learning all it can do.
Anyhow, I couldn't resist creating a pic as an example .

[TimothyEllis]

Anyhow, I couldn't resist creating a pic as an example

I like that

[notthatamanda]

Probably get in trouble if you put the curved arrow under Tim's name, huh?

It looks awesome.  I like the shelf ads with the actual shelf better too.

[TimothyEllis]

Curved arrow?

[notthatamanda]

Like under the Amazon publishing logo.

[Tonyonline]

I like that

Thanks.
Just one more 




...I have to use a host to upload these images. They will probably remove the link, and with it the image, at some time. I tried to attach the image instead, but after attaching, I can't see how to up the image onto the page 

Edit...
...Damn! Just noticed the corner is off on the first book...I dunno...Amateurs   

[Jeff Tanyard]

I like that

Thanks.
Just one more 




...I have to use a host to upload these images. They will probably remove the link, and with it the image, at some time. I tried to attach the image instead, but after attaching, I can't see how to up the image onto the page 

Edit...
...Damn! Just noticed the corner is off on the first book...I dunno...Amateurs   

And this is why we need a credible planetary defense system: to protect Earth from an invasion of extraterrestrial books.   

[TimothyEllis]

I like that

 

Can you do that using devices instead of paperbacks?

And this is why we need a credible planetary defense system: to protect Earth from an invasion of extraterrestrial books.   

Too late. 

[Tonyonline]

Can you do that using devices instead of paperbacks?

Yes. I could place anything in the picture.
Some things can take a little time to do, if the thing, device, whatever, isn't in a png format, as you have to cut it out from it's original setting/picture, and then convert it into a png so it can be used.
I often do this when playing about with pictures and creating a new scene. See my avatar as an example of this.

[Simon Haynes]

I had a go at a proper bookshelf for one of my series last night. (You can't tell from the image, but the books have no pages. They're just empty covers!)

[Simon Haynes]

I like that

Thanks.
Just one more 




...I have to use a host to upload these images. They will probably remove the link, and with it the image, at some time. I tried to attach the image instead, but after attaching, I can't see how to up the image onto the page 

Edit...
...Damn! Just noticed the corner is off on the first book...I dunno...Amateurs   

Those came out well! Much more dynamic than a couple of book covers on a black background.

I've been messing around with something similar to try and make my bookbub ads a bit more eye-catching.  Tricky though, because the ads are so small.

[notthatamanda]

That's really cool Simon.  Is there a reason you went right to left with the series?  Versus left to right?  Some sort of marketing psychological trick?
Not that I'm up to doing an ad like this, I'm just curious.

[Tonyonline]

Those came out well! Much more dynamic than a couple of book covers on a black background.

Thanks

I've been messing around with something similar to try and make my bookbub ads a bit more eye-catching. Tricky though, because the ads are so small.

I grabbed one of your covers, I had to have have a go myself. (Hope you don't mind, I'll take down if you do, anyhow...)

Geez! I see what you mean! I didn't realise it would take so much time and effort to create one at that size. It took me over an hour and a half to create this 300 x 250 px advert  . The messing about with everything from full 400 dpi to 72 and then to 300 x 250 px was enough, but then seeing that some of the text isn't showing properly when viewing the finished piece, so having to change text and repeat the process, to then, finally thinking I was done, but realising that I forgot the border ...it was all...well, blooming time consuming.
And of course you're right! Shrinking the book, and it being seen correctly, let alone adding jaunty angles, on only half the advert space, would be a problem. The size I've used for the book would lose clarity, especially the text, if it went much smaller.
Anyhow, I wouldn't want to do many of those adverts!

Here's what I ended up with.




Edit.
Simon...how did you attach your bookshelf image and post it? Thanks. Oh! And I like the reflection in your shelf, nice touch.

[Tom Wood]

It's funny in the odd way of funny that we keep using real-world artifacts like bookshelves to hold ephemeral products like ebooks. The icons on our phones and computers are still stuck in the analog world - handsets from 1960's telephones for the phone function, yellow folders for files, round clock faces, floppy disks to save a file. Nothing wrong with any of it, but we are odd creatures of habit.

[Simon Haynes]

That's really cool Simon.  Is there a reason you went right to left with the series?  Versus left to right?  Some sort of marketing psychological trick?
Not that I'm up to doing an ad like this, I'm just curious.

I wanted the cover of book 1 showing rather than book x.  (I could have angled it the other way, but still.)

[Simon Haynes]

It's funny in the odd way of funny that we keep using real-world artifacts like bookshelves to hold ephemeral products like ebooks. The icons on our phones and computers are still stuck in the analog world - handsets from 1960's telephones for the phone function, yellow folders for files, round clock faces, floppy disks to save a file. Nothing wrong with any of it, but we are odd creatures of habit.

I remember seeing a comment where kids thought the floppy disk icon was meant to represent a vending machine.

I was thinking about carving a futuristic bookshelf out of perspex or something, but I had the wooden texture lying around.

[Simon Haynes]

Those came out well! Much more dynamic than a couple of book covers on a black background.

Thanks

I've been messing around with something similar to try and make my bookbub ads a bit more eye-catching. Tricky though, because the ads are so small.

I grabbed one of your covers, I had to have have a go myself. (Hope you don't mind, I'll take down if you do, anyhow...)

Geez! I see what you mean! I didn't realise it would take so much time and effort to create one at that size. It took me over an hour and a half to create this 300 x 250 px advert  . The messing about with everything from full 400 dpi to 72 and then to 300 x 250 px was enough, but then seeing that some of the text isn't showing properly when viewing the finished piece, so having to change text and repeat the process, to then, finally thinking I was done, but realising that I forgot the border ...it was all...well, blooming time consuming.
And of course you're right! Shrinking the book, and it being seen correctly, let alone adding jaunty angles, on only half the advert space, would be a problem. The size I've used for the book would lose clarity, especially the text, if it went much smaller.
Anyhow, I wouldn't want to do many of those adverts!

Here's what I ended up with.




Edit.
Simon...how did you attach your bookshelf image and post it? Thanks. Oh! And I like the reflection in your shelf, nice touch.

Thanks, that looks neat!

I'm not sure whether I can attach a blender file (or if anyone else is familiar with the program?)

I created the shelf by modifying cubes and applying textures.

I create the books in a similar fashion. They have slightly bulged spines as well, but it's a very minor deviation from square.

Too much gloss in the varnish I think!

Here's the same scene in wireframe and in solid:

[Tonyonline]

I'm not sure whether I can attach a blender file (or if anyone else is familiar with the program?)

I created the shelf by modifying cubes and applying textures.

I create the books in a similar fashion. They have slightly bulged spines as well, but it's a very minor deviation from square.

Too much gloss in the varnish I think!

Here's the same scene in wireframe and in solid:

Wow, now that looks like it took some time to create. I like it, a bit too technical for me, and thanks for sharing. But talking of it being too technical for me...what I meant was, actually attaching a picture.
How did you attach your picture of the shelf and post it into the forum dialog box?
I can see there is a way to choose an image, from the attachment and other options, under the dialog box, but no button to post it.
Sorry for the confusion.
However! Actually seeing the work you put into your shelf, I'm glad we got our wires crossed.

[Simon Haynes]

When posting, click Preview on your quick reply, and below the box on the subsequent page there's an 'attachment' option.

I've been doing 3d modelling for years, but only as a hobby and I've barely scratched the surface of blender. My eldest daughter is a pro animator working for a movie company and laughs at my efforts ;-)

There are tons of youtube vids on Blender.  Moving and altering simple cubes isn't too bad, although it takes a few goes to apply textures.

I've never tried this, but it's possible to turn the image I created into an animation just by flying the camera past it. In fact, I'll have a go now and see what happens.

[Tom Wood]

Interesting, Amazon is running a BB ad for Neil Gamain's book about Douglas Adams. It's in KU too.

[JackT]

Blimey. I bought the first version of that book back in the eighties! That's one hell of a shelf life.

[Tom Wood]

Okay BookBub, this is just pouring salt in the wound...

[notthatamanda]

These always remind me of the SNL skit, "How to get people to send you ten bucks for a book."

[Bill Hiatt]

Okay BookBub, this is just pouring salt in the wound...

That kind of thing appalls me, even though I know there's nothing unethical about it. I'm just old-fashioned enough to think that being a writer means, well, writing sometimes. (Someone whose readers are constantly demanding more content and works with others to satisfy the demand is a different situation. The author is still involved in the writing process.)

The other day, I got a nice comment on my blog which I nonetheless marked as spam because it came from a company that writes essays and term papers for people. That's pretty much the last kind of organization I won't to give any advertising to, even indirectly, given the ethical problems.

Then there are the persistent emails inviting me to learn how to lower the SEO of other people's websites.

Sigh!