Checking again...

[R. C.]

...just wondering, is anyone having success with BookBub ADs?

Before I jump back in to BB I thought I'd ask. I stopped using the BB platform when it took a dive, about six-eight weeks ago. 

R.C.

[alhawke]

I have. I have a consistent success with an ad with a .25cpc and 2.02 cpr . I've spent $2k over the past year on it.  But I sell a book going for $3.99 daily. Is it only because of the ad? Probably not, but the ad definitely correlates many sales.
Have I been able to repeat my success? No. But I keep trying. My new book has now gone through 20 different ad creatives! Here's the newest one. I enjoy playing with the creatives and I believe if you're gonna be successful, you have to go beyond their standard ad.
Here's the creative I just made this morning

edit} I deleted ad on second thought as it appeared as shameless advertising. I can PM you if interested or reinstate if people are still interested.

[R. C.]

@AlHawke

In you BB ADs, do you use authors, categories, or both?

R.C.

[alhawke]

For my successful ad, I used 1 category and 25 authors. I couldn't believe I added that many authors, but I did. I think it's just grown.

I usually start my ads with ten, or so, authors and one or two categories. Then I adjust over time.

[PJ Post]

Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?

[alhawke]

Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?

AMS focuses more on keywords. You know, you land your occasional sponsored ad on a search and then you're put on a carousel. BB's different. BB is more about similar authors and categories/genres. BB takes advantage of their newsletter service and tags your ad with an email promotion. It also places your BB ad on the website when looking at authors or books.

AMS has never worked profitably for me. I've sold books there, but I've lost a lot of money. I can't compare with FB ads as I've never done those.

[R. C.]

Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?

What AL said and one nuanced addition.  Kindle ADs catch a lot of eyes that may not be looking for a book.  BB ADs target readers. 

Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition. The competition is too fierce, high CPC, and the low product prices required to "stay in market" prohibit success.

R.C.

Also - BB ADs are small (300x250) by design. The AD copy has to be short, tight, and readable.

[PJ Post]

How are BB ads priced?

[R. C.]

How are BB ads priced?

Pay-per-click or Pay-per-impressions.

R.C.

[R. C.]

BB UPDATE

Three versions of two ADs running for two days, with categories and no authors.

Impressions: 9583
Clicks: 0

Added authors, one each for the various ADs, for another two day experiment.

If adding authors fails to produce clicks, next steps are, in order: revised categories, additional authors, new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or two, I'll see positive results.   

R.C.

[alhawke]

Are you creating your own creative or using their default? I use canva to create my BB ads. The goal is to get a CTR of around 2. I've created over two hundred ads over two years. It takes low bid $5/day, experiment, toss, and try again.

[R. C.]

Are you creating your own creative or using their default? I use canva to create my BB ads. The goal is to get a CTR of around 2. I've created over two hundred ads over two years. It takes low bid $5/day, experiment, toss, and try again.

I am creating the ADs. Canva works well but I use Photoshop.  Rinse and repeat seems to be the correct mantra.

R.C.

[R. C.]

BB UPDATE - Day Six

"Don't feel bad, R.C. Negative results are still results." - Paraphrased from the Big Bang Thoery

Three versions of four ADs running for two-five days, with categories and authors.

Impressions: 31,713
Clicks: 0

Will modify content, authors and continue the experiment.

Adding new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or five, I'll see positive results.   

R.C.

[PJ Post]

Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

[R. C.]

Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.

R.C.

[alhawke]

Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.

RC, feel free to PM me for a look or any suggestions too. Or show us all your creative.
Some ads just don't take. Or the bots don't like them. Either way, good luck!

[PJ Post]

Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.

I'm not being as altruistic as it may appear. I was thinking if we work together, on a specific project, we might figure out how to make these ads work better for everybody - without having to reinvent the wheel every time. It would be really helpful to figure out how each platform responds as well, in case we need to do different ads. For example, Instagram is a vertical, Facebook is square and the internet can be anything, but wide/cinematic images seem to be a thing at the moment. And then there's the colors and copy. Sorting out a formula would be pretty helpful. And since you're mid-experiment...

There's a whole team here at your disposal...just saying. The KB forum used to be like this.

 

[notthatamanda]

BB UPDATE - Day Six

"Don't feel bad, R.C. Negative results are still results." - Paraphrased from the Big Bang Thoery

Three versions of four ADs running for two-five days, with categories and authors.

Impressions: 31,713
Clicks: 0

Will modify content, authors and continue the experiment.

Adding new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or five, I'll see positive results.   

R.C.

Is it a permafree first in series or 99 cents or something? Do you have the price in the ad? I liked to put the price in the ad.

[R. C.]

Okay - Accepting help is something the Misses says I need to work on...

No, prices. I read unless it is zero or 99 cents, the market rejects the AD without a second thought.

Here are a few of the currently BB ADs.  Failed ADs

Also, I am considering recycling older ADs that pulled a few clicks.

Happy to take suggestions.

R.C.

[alhawke]

No, prices. I read unless it is zero or 99 cents, the market rejects the AD without a second thought.

This is definitely not true. My most successful ad is for a book that's $3.99. Your book doesn't have to be free or 99c to be successful for a BB ad.

The way to make it work is to have it run at 25c. But you don't start it that low. In order to get the bots rolling, you want to start it around $.65 USD. Then slowly work it down to 25cc Then you're getting enough clicks, like 20 daily per $5, to make it work. The trick is to find an ad successful enough. That's the trick.

[alhawke]

Here's my 2 cents. Looking at your ads, my biggest suggestion is to use a more professional font, particularly for your call to action (CTA). I really think font is your biggest problem. For more specifics:
1) I don't like the font with Shiny Lies. The ad's fine as it's just a background.
2) I really like that you used the whole creative for Aalborinn (this is a common new trend), but the ad looks busy. Cut down the wording.
3) I think your three book Biomass series was done the best. The main change here would be the font used for you CTA. Use a more professional font.
4) I love the background with Crazy Sweet Grass. Again, I don't like the font.

Font is the biggest change I'd make. Make it look more professional and formal, particularly for your red CTA.
Noticed I'm not commenting on what you said. Readers are looking at what interests them. I know we're writers, but I believe appearance trumps words in ads. The ads are read after a reader is interested.
Hope my comments help.

[alhawke]

Here's how I do my ads. It really can't get much simpler. Book. CTA with professional font. Background. Voila. I have many other ads with lots more words, but this is to show my push for simplicity in the image. I think of these ads more as book covers than snippets. Hopefully by seeing, you'll understand what I was talking about above:
https://alhawke.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Phantom-masquerade-dancer-ad.png

[elleoco]

Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition.

If you have a massive and passionate fan base, why to you need any ads? Unless you don't have a mailing list or other way to let them know about a new book.

[Eric Thomson]

Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition.

If you have a massive and passionate fan base, why to you need any ads? Unless you don't have a mailing list or other way to let them know about a new book.

I get by largely on new releases I promote to my mailing list, FB followers, blog followers, forum followers, and those who signed up to follow me via D2D and Amazon. I recently came across a reader on a totally unrelated political forum where they recommended me in the same breath as Frank Herbert in a thread dealing with the sorry state of publishing.

I run AMS ads, but on automatic at a low cost mainly to attract new readers.

[notthatamanda]

Here's some alternate copy for you. Don't know if it's any good, but maybe you can get some more ideas off it.

Ayidn and Allison look like the perfect couple. Looks can be deceiving.

Every spy hopes he never has to chose between his job and his family. Sorry, Ayidn.

Ayidn's mission continues in the new thriller from RC Ducatin.

The prophecy has come true. Now *name* has to fulfill her duty to ??

Name has come of age. Now to finish what her father started.

What would you do to live forever?

[j tanner]

Like alhawke said, they're almost universally too busy with poor font choices.

You might try making some using Canva templates and just replacing the images. They start with quality text choices. This should give you a sense of what a nice ad looks like. Then you can tinker from there.

[notthatamanda]

I also suggest you get on the bookbub subscription list for your genres and look at the ads they are running every day, if you aren't already. That could give you some more ideas about everything about the ads.

[R. C.]

New plan...

Better fonts.
New pricing for first in series.
Better fonts.
Shorter crisper text.
Better fonts.
Cleaner CTA.
Better fonts.

Thanks to everyone. In a couple of days, I'll have the new versions published.

R.C.

Oh, and, it appears the fonts I chose kinda suck.  I'll use better fonts.   

[R. C.]

Because I am now obsessed with getting this corrected, I took a big swing. 

I pulled down the ineffective ADs. Using your suggestions, I created new samples: WIP BB ADs

Positive input/correction/suggestion is/are appreciated.

Cheers,
R.C.

[RBC]

Because I am now obsessed with getting this corrected, I took a big swing. 

I pulled down the ineffective ADs. Using your suggestions, I created new samples: WIP BB ADs

Positive input/correction/suggestion is/are appreciated.

Cheers,
R.C.

Hmm...liking the copy for Miranda and Time, others aren't captivating. Like Shiny Lies has action cover look but talks about couple, which is kind of romance-y? Visuals are pretty nice, font is decent altho still an old-looking one.

[JRTomlin]

I'll just tell you what my experience is with BB ads. Simpler is usually better, but prettier is not always better.

This is an ad I ran a few days ago which had a CTR of 2.9% on a very carefully curated list of target authors. After a lot of testing, for me this is the kind of ad that works best by far.

[R. C.]

Thanks again for all the positive vibes.

For the fans of the original Star Trek series: One... More... Time...

Latest Ad Versions

R.C.

[JRTomlin]

Let us know how it goes.

As I think I've said before, having a good list of target authors really is probably the most important part of running BB ads.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 24 Hour Results

Parameters: High bids, No authors

Impressions: 73,208
Clicks: 3

Next Steps: Lower bids, Add authors.

R.C.

[notthatamanda]

I am starting up some bookbub ads again. I pulled authors off my also boughts for the book if you are looking for ideas.

[alhawke]

I really like your "Time" ad. Good luck!

[JRTomlin]

Also boughts are a good source. Also, go to your author page and find the "Customers Also Bought Items By" list. Of course, you then have to check on Bookbub whether those authors have followers there. Good luck.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 48 Hour Results

Parameters: Middling bids, added also bought and similar authors.

Impressions: 74,514
Clicks: 3

The addition of the authors dramatically restricted the impression pool.  The lower bids pushed the ADs to the bottom of the presentation algorithm.

Next Steps: Drinking heavily.

Serious next steps: Bump the bids.

R.C.

[JRTomlin]

A larger impression pool is no help if the impressions are being seen by people who will not buy what you are selling. It took me dozens of tests to find a good list of comparable authors but your bids also have to be right. Frankly for testing, I don't suggest bidding low. Instead, you might use a low budget, but bid average. For each test, I set about a $15 budget so that I don't overspend but hit the average bid that BB suggests. That might give you a better look at how the authors perform.

On the subject of Also Boughts, sometimes it can be worthwhile to dig a bit deeper than your own list. If you share an audience with one particular author, you might go to that author's page and see what authors he has on his page. If they aren't already on your list, I'd suggest testing them. Then be sure that they have followers on BB. There is no point in targeting authors who have very few BB followers.

[R. C.]

... dig a bit deeper than your own list....

Thanks. Digging deeper is exactly what I did.  I went two and three layers deep to find complementary authors.

R.C.

[RBC]

A larger impression pool is no help if the impressions are being seen by people who will not buy what you are selling. It took me dozens of tests to find a good list of comparable authors but your bids also have to be right. Frankly for testing, I don't suggest bidding low. Instead, you might use a low budget, but bid average. For each test, I set about a $15 budget so that I don't overspend but hit the average bid that BB suggests. That might give you a better look at how the authors perform.

On the subject of Also Boughts, sometimes it can be worthwhile to dig a bit deeper than your own list. If you share an audience with one particular author, you might go to that author's page and see what authors he has on his page. If they aren't already on your list, I'd suggest testing them. Then be sure that they have followers on BB. There is no point in targeting authors who have very few BB followers.

Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.

[JRTomlin]

... dig a bit deeper than your own list....

Thanks. Digging deeper is exactly what I did.  I went two and three layers deep to find complementary authors.

R.C.

👍 Sounds like you're on the right track.

[R. C.]

...
Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.

I am not aware of BB allowing any access to their list of author's followers. They provide the number of followers an author has on BB but nothing more.

R.C.

[R. C.]

...
👍 Sounds like you're on the right track.

Being on the right track is a good thing, when you are Usain Bolt or Secretariat.  I appear to be mired in the mud, up the track.  Assuming, of course, you prefer your metaphors, mixed, not stirred. 

R.C.

[notthatamanda]

...
Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.

I am not aware of BB allowing any access to their list of author's followers. They provide the number of followers an author has on BB but nothing more.

R.C.

They email me when I get a new follower and tell me their username, I think. Anyone confirm? I just poked around in my bookbub account and couldn't find a list though.

However, I have 11000 + readers on bookbub which is what the ads use, AFAIK and 16 followers. They are different.

[JRTomlin]

No, they don't provide a list. I'm confused. Did I seem to imply that they did? If so it was unintentional.

I have never had BB email me except once a month, I think, tell me how many new followers I've gained.

[notthatamanda]

It seemed like someone was looking for a list. Got me curious.

I got this from Bookbub this week:

sha...23 is now following you on BookBub!

I redacted part of the username but bookbub gave me the full name.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 72 Hour Results

Parameters: Bumped bids a few cents.

Impressions: 75,727
Clicks: 3

Confirmed, the lower bids pushed the ADs to the bottom of the presentation algorithm. The addition of the authors restricted the algorithm's ability find placements.

Next steps: Bump the bids a few more cents.

R.C.

[notthatamanda]

Can you elaborate? Why would adding authors make it harder to get bids (If I understand what you are saying correctly.)?

[R. C.]

Can you elaborate? Why would adding authors make it harder to get bids (If I understand what you are saying correctly.)?

SIMPLIFIED

As I understand the tool, the categories are an OR, the authors are an OR, the combination is an AND.  Meaning:

IF user preference is Science Fiction OR Thriller AND user follows/liked author Any Wier OR Matt Haig, THEN present the impression.

As you can imagine, the logic can become complex.

IF user preference is A OR B OR C AND user follows/liked author X OR Y OR Z, THEN present the impression.

CORRECTED - Both parts (the stuff in the parenthesis) has to be true

IF user preference is (A OR B OR C AND user follows/liked author X OR Y OR Z,) AND (BID >= Theoretical Minimum,) THEN present the impression.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

...just wondering, is anyone having success with BookBub ADs?

Before I jump back in to BB I thought I'd ask. I stopped using the BB platform when is took a dive, about six-eight weeks ago. 

R.C.

Thanks for this thread. I've learned a lot and am trying one of their ads. One thing that might help me is to ask readers to recommend authors they like that write books similar to mine. I'm doing that now on Facebook. 

https://www.facebook.com/marti.talbott/posts/4423782324376433?comment_id=4424049657683033

[R. C.]

This just arrived from BB:

Hi R. C.,

We wanted to let you know the following ad campaign(s) are winning very few impressions:

•   List of ADs

Our auction takes the click-through rate (CTR) into account for ads using CPC bidding, and unfortunately the CTRs of these campaigns are low enough to impact their competitiveness in the auction.

If you’re satisfied with the results, you’re welcome to keep these ads running, but if you’d like to serve impressions more quickly, we recommend that you pause these campaigns and create new ones from scratch. Find tips for increasing the CTR of your ads here.

You’re also welcome to contact our team if you have any questions about how to adjust your ad campaigns. Please reply to this email and we'll be happy to help!

Best wishes,
BookBub Partners Team

[Marti Talbott]

Does anyone understand the difference between these two options when setting up a BB ad? I have my ad set up for a week.

Under total campaign budget:

Fulfill as quickly as possible
Spread across date range

[Eric Thomson]

Does anyone understand the difference between these two options when setting up a BB ad? I have my ad set up for a week.

Under total campaign budget:

Fulfill as quickly as possible
Spread across date range

Simple. Fulfill as quickly as possible means BB will spend all your money in the first ninety seconds. Spread across date range means a drib every x hours until the last date at which point the final drab is spent. I gave up on BB ads long ago. Expensive and unproductive.

[notthatamanda]

Yes the first time I did a bookbub ad it spent it in the time it took to take a shower.

[Marti Talbott]

Does anyone understand the difference between these two options when setting up a BB ad? I have my ad set up for a week.

Under total campaign budget:

Fulfill as quickly as possible
Spread across date range

Simple. Fulfill as quickly as possible means BB will spend all your money in the first ninety seconds. Spread across date range means a drib every x hours until the last date at which point the final drab is spent. I gave up on BB ads long ago. Expensive and unproductive.

I was wondering about that. "Spread across date range" sounds like even if you get all the clicks the first day, they will dribbling them into the report over the week. I don't see the point. At least I'm paying by click and not impression. Thanks for the answer.

[Marti Talbott]

I just discovered a review on BB on McShane's Bride (The Dotsero Train Wreck). I didn't think the "new book" notifications were any use at all, but since I've never advertised this book on BB, the new book thing must be working better than I thought. Forgive me for bragging.

"Don’t miss reading this one! Outstanding job taking the reader into a very scary and realistically related scenario we hope never to be a part of. The characters described were realistic and I felt like I actually met people and learned who they truly were inside - something few authors ever achieve for me. The author did such an excellent job, I felt like I was there and got very involved in what happens in an emergency situation. I have been in scary situations, but nothing even approaching this one. Knowing what it takes in emergencies, real heroes emerge, just as the author described. Those are the people who are taken out of ordinary routines, meet the challenge, and do what needs to be done. Thank you for a memorable read - I’ll remember this one as a standout. Few books stay in my memory as this one will."

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 96 Hour Results

Parameters: Received "your ADs are crap" email from BB - Bumped bid to recommend minimum, removed authors, simplified categories.

Impressions: 97,646
Clicks: 4

Next steps: Let the ADs run while creating new versions. Post new versions at EOD.

R.C.

[alhawke]

I just discovered a review on BB on McShane's Bride (The Dotsero Train Wreck).

That is a great review. Congrats!

Parameters: Received "your ADs are crap" email from BB

  I get those from time to time. Doesn't always represent the ad. Sometimes it's a winning ad that has just not been triggering for a little while.

Reminds me of AMS when they send you an email recommending you to increase your bid to some ridiculous cost like $10.

[Marti Talbott]

I just discovered a review on BB on McShane's Bride (The Dotsero Train Wreck).

That is a great review. Congrats!

Parameters: Received "your ADs are crap" email from BB

  I get those from time to time. Doesn't always represent the ad. Sometimes it's a winning ad that has just not been triggering for a little while.

Reminds me of AMS when they send you an email recommending you to increase your bid to some ridiculous cost like $10.

Thanks. It's especially exciting for me because the last four books I've written were just duds including this one. I'll take a pat on the back anywhere I can get it.

My BB ad on McShane's Bride is running this morning. So far, 58 impressions and 1 click on Apple.

[Marti Talbott]

Oh ho, so now in the categories I selected which are historical romance, historical fiction and romance, my ad was replaced by ads for science fiction and fantasy books. I get that they are paying more money and that kicked my ad off, but how many readers would be tempted to click on a book in a different genre?

I wonder if that happened in the emails too?

[Pemry Janes]

I've been trying Bookbub ads myself and noticed that the ad that was working got most of it's clicks through to the Apple AU store. Like, 80% of the clicks with half the impressions towards people that had that as their preferred channel.

I have no idea why.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 96 Hour Results

Parameters: Rebooted - Changed some ADs, kept others. No authors, simplified categories, bids at low-end of recommendation.

Impressions: 112,102  (Overnight includes new ADs and prior ADs)
Clicks: 9

Next steps: Let it run... anything with no clicks after 48 hours will be replaced.

R.C.

[alhawke]

UPDATE - 96 Hour Results
Impressions: 112,102  (Overnight includes new ADs and prior ADs)
Clicks: 9

Did you correlate any sales?
That's a huge number of impressions with very little clicks. The one I showed you above has 7, 947 impressions with 66 clicks (and I'm not thrilled with these numbers either yielding less that CTR of 1 right now). So you're picking authors and genres that are giving you high visibility with low yield. You sort of want to reverse this. Look into trying authors that zero in more on your stuff. And ... shh... check out Indie writers. BB readers that like Indie click Indie. Big authors like JK Rowling or Stephen King will get you visibility with no results.

[alhawke]

Oh ho, so now in the categories I selected which are historical romance, historical fiction and romance, my ad was replaced by ads for science fiction and fantasy books.

Some writers choose your book if a similar audience buys books. It doesn't always correlate with genre.
I wouldn't worry too much about seeing other author ads over yours. Many throw high bids for a short while and then think about their pocket books. In other words, they show themselves and then fade, ime.

[R. C.]

... Big authors like JK Rowling or Stephen King will get you visibility with no results.

Understood, I do not choose big authors.  I will add the AND of selected authors later today.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

As I mentioned, I took a poll of my fans on Facebook asking for other authors they love. I just entered them in my BB ad, so we'll see if that improves things. Meanwhile, I have 3662 impressions and 3 clicks, all on Apple, which I think is strange. But then, most of the impressions are on Apple.

[alhawke]

As I mentioned, I took a poll of my fans on Facebook asking for other authors they love. I just entered them in my BB ad, so we'll see if that improves things.

Marti, can you update us on this? If you see higher results, please let us know. That's a really clever idea that I could implement in the future.

[Marti Talbott]

As I mentioned, I took a poll of my fans on Facebook asking for other authors they love. I just entered them in my BB ad, so we'll see if that improves things.

Marti, can you update us on this? If you see higher results, please let us know. That's a really clever idea that I could implement in the future.

Will do.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 121 Hour Results (end of DST added)

Parameters: Added authors, bids at low-end of recommendation.

Impressions: 116,901 (+4.2%)
Clicks: 9

Next steps: Keep guessing... anything with no clicks after another 24 hours will be replaced with new ADs and new authors.

R.C.

[PJ Post]

Can you post the ad here?

[Marti Talbott]

I got one of those BB emails advising that if I'm not happy, to fixt it and create a new ad. I wonder why that would work better. The old ad is getting impressions, but still only 3 clicks on Apple which have not converted to sales so far. Nothing on the other outlets. I'm convinced making things too hard for me to understand is a conspiracy! 

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 145 Hour Results

Parameters: No changes.

Impressions: 119,291
Clicks: 9

Next steps: ADs will be replaced, new authors added.

Here are the New ADs

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

I've been looking at the ads under Historical Romance, etc., and in assessing the creation of the ads  I've seen several different approaches.

1. ad with too much print making it impossible to read.
2. backgrounds that actually distract from the cover art.
3. "compare to" another author as the sales approach.
4. price listed
5. no price listed
6. no call to action.
7. credits/reviews listed.

So far I haven't seen one that uses a simple blurb. As a reader, what would tempt you to click? I've always thought the reader first wants to know what the book is about. Am I wrong?

[R. C.]

I've been looking at the ads under Historical Romance, etc., and in assessing the creation of the ads  I've seen several different approaches.

1. ad with too much print making it impossible to read.
2. backgrounds that actually distract from the cover art.
3. "compare to" another author as the sales approach.
4. price listed
5. no price listed
6. no call to action.
7. credits/reviews listed.

So far I haven't seen one that uses a simple blurb. As a reader, what would tempt you to click? I've always thought the reader first wants to know what the book is about. Am I wrong?

All of the above, and more, in combination, and everything else on the digital marketing spectrum.

Translated: I think the only approach to the changing dynamics of consumer mood/preference is to keep trying.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

I've been looking at the ads under Historical Romance, etc., and in assessing the creation of the ads  I've seen several different approaches.

1. ad with too much print making it impossible to read.
2. backgrounds that actually distract from the cover art.
3. "compare to" another author as the sales approach.
4. price listed
5. no price listed
6. no call to action.
7. credits/reviews listed.

So far I haven't seen one that uses a simple blurb. As a reader, what would tempt you to click? I've always thought the reader first wants to know what the book is about. Am I wrong?

All of the above, and more, in combination, and everything else on the digital marketing spectrum.

Translated: I think the only approach to the changing dynamics of consumer mood/preference is to keep trying.

R.C.

I agree. I think I'll choose one or two that I think are good ads, and see if their ranks actually show sales. That would probably be the best indicator of what actually works.

[alhawke]

As a reader, what would tempt you to click? I've always thought the reader first wants to know what the book is about. Am I wrong?

Like I said earlier, I believe readers are enticed by simplicity and an attractive image. I know I am. And these types of ads seem to be the most effective. Hopefully your cover does most of the work. Spruce it up with the background and a nice font. Keep it simple. Then given a quick snippet. A quick one. In other words, don't create ads like blurbs or novels, make them like book covers. I believe that's the trick.

But the right combination takes a bit of experimenting. I've had beautiful ads with no clicks. In fact, I've lost money trying to push an ad that I thought was great. Even if an ad is ugly, if it gets sales, go with it. That's when the marketing mind has to supersede our author mind.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 24 Hour Results (all new ADs)

Parameters: Limited authors, selective categories.

Impressions: 5010
Clicks: 2

Next steps: Wait 24 hours.  If clicks do not appear, it will be time for a BIG change.


FYI - In searching for authors, Tim's books came up in the top ten/fifteen of several categories!


Here are the New ADs

R.C.

[j tanner]

Are the clicks from the past couple weeks of tests spread across all the books, or are a particular 1 or 2 getting them all?

[R. C.]

Are the clicks from the past couple weeks of tests spread across all the books, or are a particular 1 or 2 getting them all?

Generally, spread across all books. One or two where outliers on the low end have been corrected.  The "sci-fi" category ADs pull more impressions, but are not outliers on the high end.

R.C.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 48 Hour Results

Parameters: No change - Limited authors, selective categories.

Impressions: 9059
Clicks: 8 (.000884%)

Next steps: Begin constructing ADs time for a BIG change.

Side note: The same AD images running on other platforms are returning a CTR between a 1.2% and 17.8%.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

UPDATE - 48 Hour Results

Parameters: No change - Limited authors, selective categories.

Impressions: 9059
Clicks: 8 (.000884%)

Next steps: Begin constructing ADs time for a BIG change.

Side note: The same AD images running on other platforms are returning a CTR between a 1.2% and 17.8%.

R.C.

Question: when you make a new ad, are you copying or starting all over?

[alhawke]

I copy because I get lazy typing in all the authors all over again. But I read a recent post suggesting that a new ad should be done completely new, so ... I don't know. I tried both ways and haven't seen much of a difference.

[R. C.]

I copy because I get lazy typing in all the authors all over again. But I read a recent post suggesting that a new ad should be done completely new, so ... I don't know. I tried both ways and haven't seen much of a difference.

I copy the AD then look at every layer. If I can change the tone of the AD by replacing the background, I might stop there.  But, I look at everything.

There might be value in starting from scratch.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

Above, I mentioned that I asked my FB friends what other authors they followed. It's been a few days since I took their suggestions and selected said authors in my BB ad. As far as I can tell, that didn't help.

I suspect going with bestselling authors in a category is a better bet, so I'm going to try that next. My first ad now has 7330 images and 4 clicks all on Apple with no sales. The good news is, I've only spent $2.04.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - 72 Hour Results

Parameters: No change - Limited authors, selective categories.

Impressions: 12,411
Clicks: 12 (.001%)

Next steps: Construct ADs for a BIG change in ADs with no clicks.

R.C.

[PJ Post]

On the next change (one at a time to see which thing is working) I'd recommend changing your color schemes. Try orange and blues/turquoise. You should be able to just slide the hue fader in whatever photo software you have. Red, especially in text, is a warning color and can put people off.

[R. C.]

On the next change (one at a time to see which thing is working) I'd recommend changing your color schemes. Try orange and blues/turquoise. You should be able to just slide the hue fader in whatever photo software you have. Red, especially in text, is a warning color and can put people off.

Yep, trying all that! Thanks!

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

I don't know if this will help anyone, but I'll post what I'm trying. Maybe our combined efforts will help us crack the BB nut.

1st ad: I used a white background to showcase: The ad read: "Based on an actual event. Can McShane's Bride survive the 1909 Dotsero Train Wreck." On this ad I used authors my readers suggested. American Historical Romance, Christian Fiction, Historical Romance, Women's fiction, thrillers. $.86 per click. Pacing - spread across date range (9 days) 7,392 impressions, 4 clicks, no sales.

I paused this ad to try something new.

2nd ad:  White background to showcase the cover: The ad read: "Based on a Horrific 1909 train wreck" On this ad I used top selling authors (17) in my chosen categories - American Historical Romance, Romantic suspense, Historical Romance, Women's fiction, thrillers. $.86 per click. Pacing - fulfil as quickly as possible. In a matter of hours,  7,867 impressions, 24 clicks, no sales so far.

I paused this ad too. Since I copied and published it late in the evening when (I supposed) emails had not gone out and that the impressions were on their site only, which I could not find, that I was wasting money. The trick would be to un-paused late at night so it would/might go out with the next morning's emails.

Thoughts?

[R. C.]

I don't know if this will help anyone, but I'll post what I'm trying. Maybe our combined efforts will help us crack the BB nut.

1st ad: I used a white background to showcase: The ad read: "Based on an actual event. Can McShane's Bride survive the 1909 Dotsero Train Wreck." On this ad I used authors my readers suggested. American Historical Romance, Christian Fiction, Historical Romance, Women's fiction, thrillers. $.86 per click. Pacing - spread across date range (9 days) 7,392 impressions, 4 clicks, no sales.

I paused this ad to try something new.

2nd ad:  White background to showcase the cover: The ad read: "Based on a Horrific 1909 train wreck" On this ad I used top selling authors (17) in my chosen categories - American Historical Romance, Romantic suspense, Historical Romance, Women's fiction, thrillers. $.86 per click. Pacing - fulfil as quickly as possible. In a matter of hours,  7,867 impressions, 24 clicks, no sales so far.

I paused this ad too. Since I copied and published it late in the evening when (I supposed) emails had not gone out and that the impressions were on their site only, which I could not find, that I was wasting money. The trick would be to un-paused late at night so it would/might go out with the next morning's emails.

Thoughts?

Everything you outline looks relevant and appropriate. But what do I know... Your clicks are significantly above my comfort zone

R.C.

[R. C.]

Taking a big swing. Not posted yet, here are the Newest Versions.

Feedback welcome (yes, that is Xmas Soylent Green!)   

Also, before I make the switch, I will test Marti's suggestion of higher bids for a few hours.

R.C.

[RBC]

Taking a big swing. Not posted yet, here are the Newest Versions.

Feedback welcome (yes, that is Xmas Soylent Green!)   

Also, before I make the switch, I will test Marti's suggestion of higher bids for a few hours.

R.C.

The ad with the mobile phone as book display has cover be really distorted, kinda doesn't look great.

Good luck with the test. Green is risky but maybe that 'weirdness' will work great. Could go either way, never know.

[Marti Talbott]

Taking a big swing. Not posted yet, here are the Newest Versions.

Feedback welcome (yes, that is Xmas Soylent Green!)   

Also, before I make the switch, I will test Marti's suggestion of higher bids for a few hours.

R.C.

I kind of agree about the green font. In some, I think blue would be better, although if you trying to make them spooky, maybe green is better.

[R. C.]

...

The ad with the mobile phone as book display has cover be really distorted, kinda doesn't look great.

...Could go either way, never know.

Corrected. Thanks!

R.C.

[j tanner]

Remove the incorrect comma in "Those born mixed, are not permitted to live."

To my eye these ads have generally gone in the wrong direction from previous ads, but I guess it can't hurt to test everything.

[R. C.]

Remove the incorrect comma in "Those born mixed, are not permitted to live."

To my eye these ads have generally gone in the wrong direction from previous ads, but I guess it can't hurt to test everything.

Arg, thanks.

R.C.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - RESET - Hybrid - Old & new ADs approximately 39 hours

Parameters: Limited authors, selective categories, bold ADs, some ADs retained

Impressions: 11,008
Clicks: 21 (.0019%) Clicks are across the board: 'Zon, Apple, B&N, Roko, Google.

Next steps: Continue to monitor and modify ADs.

OTHER

The results of a three day experiment confirmed an important piece of data. Between 86% and 92% of all ADs are presented on mobile devices.

Google: 412k impressions resulted in 92% being presented on a mobile.
Taboola: 72K impression resulted in 86% being presented on a mobile or tablet.

Conclusion: Confirmation of the requirement for ADs to display well on phones.

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

I've given up. I have one sale out of 34 clicks, which I can't prove came from the ad. My thought it that BB ads are a waste of money.

[R. C.]

UPDATE - Forced myself to sit on my hands between the last update and this update, approximately 40 hrs.

Parameters: No change - Limited authors, selective categories, bold ADs, some ADs retained

Impressions: 21,776
Clicks: 28 (.0013%) Clicks are across the board: 'Zon, Apple, B&N, Roko, Google.

Next steps: Whack the ADs with no clicks, keep going. Never, ever give up. Unless is it costing you money...

R.C.

[RBC]

UPDATE - Forced myself to sit on my hands between the last update and this update, approximately 40 hrs.

Parameters: No change - Limited authors, selective categories, bold ADs, some ADs retained

Impressions: 21,776
Clicks: 28 (.0013%) Clicks are across the board: 'Zon, Apple, B&N, Roko, Google.

Next steps: Whack the ADs with no clicks, keep going. Never, ever give up. Unless is it costing you money...

R.C.

Yes, pay-per-click ads are not easy, and an expensive skill to hire for a reason. It takes tons of testing and experiment, boring work, and lots of unhappy tries. It's not gonna be figured out in a week. Otherwise, it would be completely impossible to advertise due to overuse and high prices.

Keep it up!

[R. C.]

UPDATE - About three days of run time. 

Parameters: Limited authors, some ADs with no authors, selective categories, bold ADs, ADs retained, some replaced.

Impressions: 88,402 (High, due to several ADs with no author constraints.)
Clicks: 59 Clicks are across the board: 'Zon, Apple, B&N, Roko, Google.
Sales: Minor uptick.

Next steps: Whack the ADs with few clicks and low CTR, keep going.

R.C.

[PJ Post]

Are book ads using clickbait titles yet?

[R. C.]

Are book ads using clickbait titles yet?

Not yet, at least not intentionally. For the ADs that are not generating a solid CTR, I may add a few clickbait options.  The key with "clickbait verbiage" is to not be deceptive. Honesty leads to a good night's sleep.

Interesting Clickbait Article

R.C.

[alhawke]

I'd tread with caution when interpreting ads for the rest of November and December. BB ads don't do as well in the holidays because you're competing with many many more sale deals--unless you have elves or turkey & gravy in your stories.

I already am starting to see a drop (even while running a separate book promotion at the moment). It happens to me every year. Then January picks up. At least for my books, anyway.

{edit for clarity

[R. C.]

Captains Log - Final Entry.

November: Limited authors, some ADs with no authors, selective categories, bold ADs, ADs retained, some replaced.

Impressions: 389,946
Clicks: 102 - Clicks came from across the board: 'Zon, Apple, B&N, Roko, Google.
Sales: Not enough to continue.

Next steps: Find eyes somewhere else...

R.C.

[Marti Talbott]

Sorry it didn't work out for either of us. Yet, we must persist or our books go right down the tubes. What else have you tried? Would you go for the same setup (clicks) such as Goodreads offers, or are you looking for something different. It's maddening, isn't it?

I placed an ad on bargain Booksy historical for McShane's Bride, to run the 7th at $2.99. I'm not expecting much. At least the cost not as hard to swallow. They have a much lower price for "historical fiction" which my book would fit into nicely, but the reserved dates are way out there. I suspect everyone with a historical romance goes for that genre instead of the actual historical romance category.

[R. C.]

... Yet, we must persist or our books go right down the tubes. What else have you tried?...

Yes, persistence is a virtue and I need to cultivate a virtue.   

Tired: Everything.

FB - Recent changes by "meta" has killed the video ADs that were getting clicks.  Now: Nada.
'Zon ADs - Pointless. I am convinced the algo is bias to higher bids for higher priced product.
Google ADs - Getting better. Highly targeted campaigns. One driving to Google Books has given me my first sales there.
Other - Several options have resulted in impressions and traffic to my sight, sales are iffy.

R.C.

[RBC]

... Yet, we must persist or our books go right down the tubes. What else have you tried?...

Yes, persistence is a virtue and I need to cultivate a virtue.   

Tired: Everything.

FB - Recent changes by "meta" has killed the video ADs that were getting clicks.  Now: Nada.
'Zon ADs - Pointless. I am convinced the algo is bias to higher bids for higher priced product.
Google ADs - Getting better. Highly targeted campaigns. One driving to Google Books has given me my first sales there.
Other - Several options have resulted in impressions and traffic to my sight, sales are iffy.

R.C.

Take a break and start over in January. Maybe Tiktok ads then. If you had video ads for FB, might be able to do similar ones there maybe.

[R. C.]

...
Take a break and start over in January. Maybe Tiktok ads then. If you had video ads for FB, might be able to do similar ones there maybe.

I tried TikTok several months ago. TikTok is price competitive but the results are hit and miss. Mostly miss. The audience is not looking for something to read.

R.C.

[Lorri Moulton]

I'm going to try to get some writing done and enjoy the holidays.  When I have more books finished, maybe I'll try FISF and some paid promos.

[Luke Everhart]

... Yet, we must persist or our books go right down the tubes. What else have you tried?...

Yes, persistence is a virtue and I need to cultivate a virtue.   

Tired: Everything.

FB - Recent changes by "meta" has killed the video ADs that were getting clicks.  Now: Nada.
'Zon ADs - Pointless. I am convinced the algo is bias to higher bids for higher priced product.
Google ADs - Getting better. Highly targeted campaigns. One driving to Google Books has given me my first sales there.
Other - Several options have resulted in impressions and traffic to my sight, sales are iffy.

R.C.

RC, have you considered spending some of your ad money on new, professionally designed covers? I suggest it as advertising/marketing advice, so hopefully it's fair game for the thread(?)
I've heard/read that in the early days of indie very homemade looking covers like yours could work (maybe you started back then?). However, nowadays those sorts of covers get an automatic pass from a lot of readers -- they certainly do from me.    Usually an author running with homemade jobs has budgetary constraints that necessitate; but, given your ad spending, I assume you have the option. If so, that's the best move imo. (An opinion of a multigenre 2-3 book a week reader that reads predominantly on a kindle, not as an aspiring author who is still dragging his heels on his own endeavors 😏)

BTW, I'm not talking about nor judging the aesthetics of the covers (very subjective), or the genre signaling (fairly objective but not my point); I'm just talking about the amateur vs pro at-a-glance impression.

[Marti Talbott]

As a side note if you decide to change your covers, The price on these usually run from $.99 to $129. and they look great. Of course, it's just the front cover but you can ask the author for a quote on a back cover.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've upgraded my cover art. It does help.

[Luke Everhart]

...
Take a break and start over in January. Maybe Tiktok ads then. If you had video ads for FB, might be able to do similar ones there maybe.

I tried TikTok several months ago. TikTok is price competitive but the results are hit and miss. Mostly miss. The audience is not looking for something to read.

R.C.

Nope, definitely not TikTok. Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast at an NFL watch party. ...and if you ever go to an NFL watch party and they are serving arugula salad and avocado toast 😳RUUUUNN! It's a trick! They're going to change the channel to ice skating or try and sell you tupperware or something

[Jeff Tanyard]

Luke, it's usually considered "bad form" to offer unsolicited criticism of another member's stuff.  That's why we have dedicated subforums for those who want to solicit criticism for covers or blurbs or whatever.

Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast...

I can honestly say I've never eaten either of those things, nor would I want to.   

...at an NFL watch party.

I stopped watching the NFL when the damn Falcons pulled off the biggest choke job in the history of sports.  After that gut-wrenching event, I made a clean break and swore it all off.  And I haven't missed it, either.

They're going to change the channel to ice skating or try and sell you tupperware or something

That was a Stanley Cup final, right?  There was one year when they cut away immediately after the game but before the cup was presented.  Instead of seeing the trophies given out, we got to see figure skating (or something; not sure).  Really pissed me off.

And, of course, there's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi_Game

[Crystal]

As a native California, I have to say, we welcome avocado at all times, in all places, including Super Bowl parties. Granted, I'm not a football fan, but I've seen avocado welcomed in much stranger contexts. Guacamole is 90% avocados (also lime, cilantro, onion, salt and sometimes tomato or jalapeno), and surely no one would be upset to see guac and chips at a Super Bowl party? Avocado toast is really not that different.

Luke, it's usually considered "bad form" to offer unsolicited criticism of another member's stuff

Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast...

I can honestly say I've never eaten either of those things, nor would I want to. 

You should try them.

Avocado toast is great. It's just an bunch of avocado mashed on toasted bread, sometimes with other toppings. Who doesn't like that? I guess people who don't like avocados, but if you enjoy avocado on your sandwiches, you'll probably like avocado toast (or avocado sandwiches, as my mom used to eat, way before avocado toast was cool).

Arugula is peppery and delicious. Way more exciting than iceberg lettuce or mixed greens, but not for everyone.

[idontknowyet]

I've actually heard the opposite about booktok. Authors selling dozens of books from a single tik tok post. But that's about developing an audience and it might be genre specific. Sweet romance and steamy romance do well there.

[RBC]

...
Take a break and start over in January. Maybe Tiktok ads then. If you had video ads for FB, might be able to do similar ones there maybe.

I tried TikTok several months ago. TikTok is price competitive but the results are hit and miss. Mostly miss. The audience is not looking for something to read.

R.C.

All pay-per-click ads are hit or miss. Just the part of the game. The more ads you try the more you learn.

And audience of readers exist there. BookTok is there and I hear authors using it on other groups. There are influencers there etc. So you should maybe actually try it again, at first not the ads, just browsing BookTok and seeing what people read, comment etc and learn that. Study, research, learn. Then move to ads. 

All platforms that come out, think Instagram even, gets comments at first that 'the readers aren't there' but if normal people are there, then there are readers. Dismissing platforms is easy, and doesn't require work and research. We're not gonna succeed in life by dismissing new things constantly...

[RBC]

...
Take a break and start over in January. Maybe Tiktok ads then. If you had video ads for FB, might be able to do similar ones there maybe.

I tried TikTok several months ago. TikTok is price competitive but the results are hit and miss. Mostly miss. The audience is not looking for something to read.

R.C.

Nope, definitely not TikTok. Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast at an NFL watch party. ...and if you ever go to an NFL watch party and they are serving arugula salad and avocado toast 😳RUUUUNN! It's a trick! They're going to change the channel to ice skating or try and sell you tupperware or something

Did you actually try Tiktok?

[Jeff Tanyard]

As a native California, I have to say, we welcome avocado at all times, in all places, including Super Bowl parties. Granted, I'm not a football fan, but I've seen avocado welcomed in much stranger contexts. Guacamole is 90% avocados (also lime, cilantro, onion, salt and sometimes tomato or jalapeno), and surely no one would be upset to see guac and chips at a Super Bowl party? Avocado toast is really not that different.

Luke, it's usually considered "bad form" to offer unsolicited criticism of another member's stuff

Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast...

I can honestly say I've never eaten either of those things, nor would I want to. 

You should try them.

Avocado toast is great. It's just an bunch of avocado mashed on toasted bread, sometimes with other toppings. Who doesn't like that? I guess people who don't like avocados, but if you enjoy avocado on your sandwiches, you'll probably like avocado toast (or avocado sandwiches, as my mom used to eat, way before avocado toast was cool).

Arugula is peppery and delicious. Way more exciting than iceberg lettuce or mixed greens, but not for everyone.

Not into guacamole, either.  I basically don't do much "green food" in general.  I'm not a pure carnivore like our friend Anarchist, but I lean heavily to the meat and junk food side of the dietary spectrum.  If I'm eating corn chips, then I'm dipping them in salsa, picante sauce, or cheese dip (especially jalapeno cheese dip; I love that stuff).

[Marti Talbott]

Good thing too, Avocados are expensive where I live.

[Jeff Tanyard]

Good thing too, Avocados are expensive where I live.

Well, the avocado market is controlled by Mexican drug cartels, so...   

[Marti Talbott]

 

[R. C.]

Well, the avocado market is controlled by Mexican drug cartels, so...   

Maybe I should tailor the BB ADs to the drug cartel overlords...

R.C.