Author Topic: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers  (Read 2140 times)

R. C.

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Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« on: July 30, 2023, 02:26:44 AM »
First: Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear. Your results may vary.

Several weeks ago I was given an idea about how to increase social media presence. I became active in Threads, Twitter, Instagram, FB, and Post.

Using the hashtags: #authors, #writers, #writingcommunity and others. The results are surprising.  I have been able to increase my following three-fold in two weeks! (Three-fold means from a few to three times a few. But the trend remains positive.)

Simply, just following each other on the platforms increased our visibility and resulted in huge numbers of followers. However, when I started replying and posting with the hashtags using Twitter, my follower base expanded quickly. I learned the trick is to respond to posts with at least five words. Something about the algorithms liking five or more words pushes your profile higher in the presentation queue.

Also, almost all the Twitter hashtags have an @ equivalent on Instagram, not so much on FB.

Let's Increase Our Followers - Follow me and I'll Follow-Back!

Threads: @rcducantlin
Twitter: @rcducantlin
Instagram: @rcducantlin
Facebook: @rcducantlin
Post: @rcducantlin
Youtube: @rcducantlin

Ah, yes, US bias... Threads is the Meta (Facebook) alternative to Twitter.  Launched a couple of weeks ago, it had 100m subscribers in three days!

Post News is also a friendly competitor to Twitter.

Cheers,
R.C.

alhawke

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2023, 03:25:19 AM »
I'm already following you on YouTube.  grint
I'll take a look at Threads & Post.

I haven't joined Instagram or Facebook because I have a pen name. There's too many stories of authors losing their privacy with this company.

You didn't mention TikTok. I've read there's a lot of piracy there, which is why I never loaded my trailers. But writers are pretty hot for booktok??

Twitter... I've thought of. But I haven't seen much use in it as an author.??

Don't forget BookBub, Goodreads and LibraryThings.
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2023, 03:52:32 AM »
I was so enthusiastic about social media once upon a time. That feels like a long time ago now.

I certainly wouldn't discourage authors from following other authors. It does tickle the algorithms for a little while and provides more social proof--up to a point.

The problem with having a lot of reciprocal followers is that only a few of those people will have the time to actually interact much. A large but relatively inert following doesn't help as much in the long-term. It's better to have fewer followers that interact more.

Changes in social media over the years have only made the issue more pronounced. FB's gradual strangulation of anything like organic growth is the most blatant example. Last time I checked, I had over 50,000 people following my FB page, but a typical post (with no advertising) gets seen by dozens at most. A few of those interacting might produce more visibility and a bigger effect, but that doesn't happen too much.  Twitter's new regs about only being able to view so many tweets without paying to see more (!) is equally depressing. I understand Threads if moving in a similar direction.

YouTube is great if you have the time to put into making videos. But that seems like a much bigger investment in time than other platforms. Don't even get me started on TikTok.

I'm sorry to sound so grumpy. I'm sure some people do still get some mileage from social media. But it's a lot more effort than it used to be, and the results aren't as great, either.





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R. C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2023, 05:26:49 AM »
...
You didn't mention TikTok. I've read there's a lot of piracy there, which is why I never loaded my trailers. But writers are pretty hot for booktok??

By design. I have a TikTok account but I don't trust the Commies... or Socialists... or Liberals. Give me Libertarian!

...
Twitter... I've thought of. But I haven't seen much use in it as an author.??

The point is exposure and Twitter #writers<fill name here> is exposure to tens of thousands.

...
Don't forget BookBub, Goodreads and LibraryThings.

Never a fan of Goodreads. Lost faith in BookBub. I don't know LibraryThings... time for some research.

R.C.


Post-Crisis D

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2023, 11:13:11 AM »
Ah, yes, US bias... Threads is the Meta (Facebook) alternative to Twitter.  Launched a couple of weeks ago, it had 100m subscribers in three days!

And then their daily users dropped by 70% over the course of the next couple weeks.


I was so enthusiastic about social media once upon a time. That feels like a long time ago now.

 :thumb18:


The problem with having a lot of reciprocal followers is that only a few of those people will have the time to actually interact much. A large but relatively inert following doesn't help as much in the long-term. It's better to have fewer followers that interact more.

Changes in social media over the years have only made the issue more pronounced. FB's gradual strangulation of anything like organic growth is the most blatant example. Last time I checked, I had over 50,000 people following my FB page, but a typical post (with no advertising) gets seen by dozens at most. A few of those interacting might produce more visibility and a bigger effect, but that doesn't happen too much.  Twitter's new regs about only being able to view so many tweets without paying to see more (!) is equally depressing. I understand Threads if moving in a similar direction.

IMHO, things went downhill when Ashton Kutcher went on Oprah and encouraged everyone to get on Twitter.  That hastened the demise of social media where people interacted and replaced it with "following."

I know it was "following" from the start, but it was far more interaction before that.  You didn't just follow people; you interacted with them.

But when celebrities and celebrity worshippers began joining Twitter (and other sites) en masse, that hastened the change.  Instead of interacting, it became actual following along with rooting and booing and all that.

It used to be social media.  Now it's still called "social media" but it's not so social--and certainly not sociable--anymore.

On top of that, limited access and such that started with Facebook is, well, evil.  I mean, how many bloggers switched to Facebook, got their readers to switch to Facebook, and then that largely decimated the blogging community and then Facebook turned around and limited views so even if you followed a certain blogger because you wanted to read their posts, there was no guarantee you'd see or even be notified of their new posts because of Facebook limiting their reach.  If you followed a blog's RSS feed, you'd be notified.  If you subscriber to their newsletter, you'd be notified.  If you followed them on Facebook, maybe you'd find out they had a new post or maybe not.

And, still, people are, frankly, stupid enough to keep using Facebook as their central portal to their readers/followers/whatever.  That's just nuts.  :HB

If you use "social media," you should do so with the intent of driving them to your website and getting them to join your mailing list or follow your website/blog's RSS feed (if you have one) and so on.  Don't make any social media site your hub.  Your website should be your hub.  If you don't have a website, get one.  If you don't want to pay for one, use a free site or whatever but pay for a domain name and point it there.  If your free host ever goes belly up or shuts you down or whatever, you can point the domain somewhere else so people can still find you.


Twitter: @rcducantlin

I followed you there.   :Tup2:


YouTube is great if you have the time to put into making videos. But that seems like a much bigger investment in time than other platforms.

And have the time to put out videos on a regular basis which means at least once a week, but preferably more.  And it takes a while to build a following.  If anyone goes that route, it would probably be best to cross-post on other video sites, like Rumble, so you have a backup if any delete your channel for whatever reason.  And, again, drive people to your website and get them to sign up so you can notify them if you ever get shut out of one or another.
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LilyBLily

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2023, 11:50:35 AM »
The idea of increasing followers by following each other is one that has been taken up by various people in romance writers' groups from time to time. You'd think that with them all being romance writers, doing so would be helpful. But it isn't, because there are many ilks of romance writers. I foolishly followed someone on BookBub and still can't figure out how to remove her tacky-looking cover from my BookBub page; I certainly don't want to recommend her book, which I have never read. I'm happy to recommend books and authors I do read, even if what they write is not what I write, but that's a very different thing.

Focused following has value. Getting more attention from random people is not a good goal. I want my followers to be people who like the kinds of books I write.

Social media paradigms come and go very rapidly these days. Blogging is mostly dead. Does anyone bother with Pinterest anymore? Remember when it was the hot thing? I don't think Facebook is going anywhere, but I've basically abandoned my Facebook author page. No one gets to see it; FB suppresses all my posts on it, so what's the point?
 
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alhawke

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2023, 12:17:34 PM »
I foolishly followed someone on BookBub and still can't figure out how to remove her tacky-looking cover from my BookBub page;
:icon_rofl:
That made me laugh.

You can delete people you follow on BB pretty easily. You could probably contact BB and ask them to delete stuff too if you run into trouble, I'd think.

One area I'm picky with is book reviews. If I review a book on BB, it's never for favors. I genuinely like that writer's book. I also don't negatively review books (not trying to put my judgement of others out there here, others may do as they please, it's just my own practice not to send fellow writers stingers).
 
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alhawke

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2023, 12:21:29 PM »
By design. I have a TikTok account but I don't trust the Commies... or Socialists... or Liberals. Give me Libertarian!
In TikTok I find views can go up high quickly, but from my understanding--which is admittedly limited with social media-- a "view" can be a one second glimpse there. I believe other sites like Youtube require a certain amount of time, not just a click. So... TikTok appears more lively and popular right now. And it's newer, I suppose.
 
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Lorri Moulton

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2023, 02:33:35 AM »
Dan, I remember you talking about blogs a while back and how social media marginalized many of them.  However, I'm also seeing more people talking about bringing their blogs back.  I think the appeal is the fact that readers can read the post when THEY want to see it.  Unlike a newsletter, the blog is up and available on the site.  It doesn't end up in spam.  If a readers knows we post on a certain schedule, they can view it when they like.

Pinterest was great.  I got it all set up...and they switched to the business model a few days later.  Now, I have thousands of views but very little interaction since I don't pay to play.

I do a lot with Facebook groups, but that is a very slow/organic reach.  It's more about branding than selling.  I think it helps give people something to do while waiting to see what I might write next...but that's about it.  We have fun, and it reaches readers rather than other authors.  Networking is great, but eventually I'd like to sell more books.

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2023, 02:45:00 AM »
Using the hashtags: #authors, #writers, #writingcommunity and others. The results are surprising.  I have been able to increase my following three-fold in two weeks! (Three-fold means from a few to three times a few. But the trend remains positive.)

Can you expand on hashtags to use?

I've never noticed them being effective on Instagram, and wouldn't know what to use on Facebook.
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R. C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2023, 05:23:18 AM »
...
Can you expand on hashtags to use?

I've never noticed them being effective on Instagram, and wouldn't know what to use on Facebook.

Funny you should ask.  This will take a moment, here goes.

When I respond to a post from a group, say WritingCommunity, that has an associated hashtag (#writingcommunity), my post is reposted to the group's followers. Not 100% of the time, but a large enough pool to increase my exposure.

Today, for example, from a group I commented on a couple of days ago (Book Promotion @quotesasimage), I received a repost that is pushing my latest book.



Another example, yesterday (I think) I posted:

WIP - 240 pages, 37k words and, son of a... Two characters have the same given name. How the heck does that happen?

with these: #authors #writers #WritingCommmunity

Author Overlord, with18,6k followers retweeted my tweet.

Using #<insert name> and @<insert name> at the end of at least fives words of response, is the key...

Without claiming ownership, I'm going to start using @wrtiersanctum and #writersanctum  grint

R.C.


PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2023, 09:01:41 AM »
More tips:

1. Find your tribe. That's your fans. That's the whole point of social media. There's no point being followed by people who don't care about what you're doing. You need to find the folks who will read your stuff and support you, buy merch, follow you on Patreon, YouTube, whatever. Raw numbers are better than nothing, and they definitely get the ball rolling as far as credibility goes, but a curated list of followers is the goal. Find your tribe.

2. Review/comment on books, movies, television/streaming shows, etc. in your genre, adjacent genres and stories with similar characters or situations (for example, anti-heroes or empowerment stories or whatever), including cool YouTube content - on as many platforms as you have time for. Remember to share and tag all of your posts and content across the platforms you participate on. Make it easy for your tribe to find you.

ALWAYS be positive in your reviews/comments. It's a short form format so pick something super cool, character, plot (no spoilers), crazy scene or idea and briefly say just how super cool it is. Video memes work well too, as long as they are either super inciteful or funny. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

ALWAYS tag the author, their publisher (if they have one) and any group that might enjoy the comment, including your own groups, such as facebook groups, the streaming network, blogs on the subject. Tag as many core folks as makes sense without being goofy about it. Keep a list.

3. NEVER be political or religious. Let your books speak for you. Just steer clear - way way clear. No, even further...further...yeah, over there. Actually, um...take another step back just for good measure.

4. If you do video posts, like YouTube content, talk about the gear you use, cameras, lenses, etc. Talk about the software you use for writing, for covers. Talk about your process, the designers you use, cover artists, book services, etc. - in both writing AND with your social media content. Tag everyone related to what you're talking about. Posts with video get shared way way more often.

5.  ALWAYS stay on brand. This is your opportunity to present yourself exactly how you want the market - your fans - to see you, it's like a perpetual first date. Be on your best behavior - fly casual! Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

6. Talk about products that relate to what you're writing or that you stand behind -  but don't violate # 3 above. Keep it short and remember to tag the company and any group that might find the post useful. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

7. ALWAYS be authentic. So, if don't have something nice to say, don't lie, just find another discussion. Don't be duplicitous, or sneaky, be above suspicion. Be as transparent as possible - but keep your private life out of it.

8. ALWAYS appear to be living your best life. Keep complaining to a minimum. It's fine to talk about how the tree fell on your house, but finish it up with how amazing the contractors and services were - even if they weren't. Remember to tag all of them. Be on your best behavior. It's like driving a company car with the name on the side. Oh, I almost forgot, posts with videos get shared way way more often.

9. ALWAYS be active. Share other posts and content regularly. Participate. Pay it forward. And tag everyone that needs tagging.

10. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

___

eta: Promote other folks more than you promote your own work, by a lot - at least 80%-20%. Your tribe will figure it out and they'll ask what you're working on, when you're publishing, etc. At the end of the day, you want your tribe to engage with you. They're your fans. Think of the stuff you're a fan of and how much you promote those products and services just because you like them. And that's the end game. Every fan is a market vector - and they're excited about it.

It's better to post snippets of your work than to push the books themselves. Allowing fans to look over your shoulder is a proven strategy.

Advertisements are fine, just keep them separate from your regular participation.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 09:24:31 AM by PJ Post »
 
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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2023, 10:31:41 PM »
Authors following authors following authors might increase your social media audience, but how much of it is your target readership? After all, few of us write in the same genre. I mean, a simpler plan is you can pay to boost any Facebook post and achieve a significant increase in views, but how many will be relevant?
I've seen one good idea recently — blogging not as an author, but as one of your book's main characters. It's close to like a mini serialisation of your current series or book.
Of all your followers, you want like 95% of them to want your next book, not want them to buy their next book.
PJ's approach is tricky, complex, time-consuming and daunting, but it makes sense. You have to target the right audience and create a tribe. Thousands of followers who don't care are worthless.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2023, 11:53:33 PM »
Authors following authors following authors might increase your social media audience, but how much of it is your target readership?...

A valid concern, and one that would make the idea of reciprocal follows mute except for one factor: The social platforms algorithms look for activity to promote. All exposure is good exposure and this is a way to heighten your post's breadth of distribution.

Never forget the compounding effect of doubling...

R.C.

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2023, 05:43:22 AM »
True up to a point, but the algorithms also try to aim content at people who've liked similar content in the past. So if you've found your tribe, as PJ suggests, the interaction will cause more people like those already in your tribe to see your stuff. But if you have miscellaneous followers, your material will get shown to more miscellaneous people rather than focusing on the ones you really want to attract. Or am I just wrong about that?


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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2023, 05:47:32 AM »
I've seen one good idea recently — blogging not as an author, but as one of your book's main characters. It's close to like a mini serialisation of your current series or book.
Of all your followers, you want like 95% of them to want your next book, not want them to buy their next book.
In the old days, when I used to have release parties that were Facebook events, I created pages for significant characters, went through the process to make them co-managers of my author page, and I was then able to comment as any of therm. (This idea isn't my original creation, but I forget where I got it.)

On the whole, people liked interacting with the characters. I'm not sure my blog audience is large enough to get the same result, though.


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R. C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2023, 07:05:49 AM »
... if you have miscellaneous followers, your material will get shown to more miscellaneous people rather than focusing on the ones you really want to attract. Or am I just wrong about that?

True and I'm a throw it against the wall type. For me, struggling to sustain a following, any positive vibe is welcome.

R.C.

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2023, 08:51:23 AM »
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about positive vibes. These days, you get them wherever you can find them.

And if, as is often the case, references to my work fall flat but cute cat videos get a big reaction, well, at least something is getting a reaction.


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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2023, 09:24:20 AM »
The cool thing is you don't have to search for your tribe - they'll find you through your posts. Just be yourself, talk about things you like. Your fans probably like them too.

It's not that daunting. Really, it's just about having fun.

And have patience. It takes time.
 
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Lorri Moulton

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2023, 10:15:20 AM »
I've seen one good idea recently — blogging not as an author, but as one of your book's main characters. It's close to like a mini serialisation of your current series or book.
Of all your followers, you want like 95% of them to want your next book, not want them to buy their next book.
In the old days, when I used to have release parties that were Facebook events, I created pages for significant characters, went through the process to make them co-managers of my author page, and I was then able to comment as any of therm. (This idea isn't my original creation, but I forget where I got it.)

On the whole, people liked interacting with the characters. I'm not sure my blog audience is large enough to get the same result, though.

Maybe I missed this earlier, but whey did you quit doing the parties?  Facebook pages aren't that great but groups still get traction.  :dog1:

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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2023, 10:18:43 AM »
Ah, yes, US bias... Threads is the Meta (Facebook) alternative to Twitter.  Launched a couple of weeks ago, it had 100m subscribers in three days!

And then their daily users dropped by 70% over the course of the next couple weeks.


And you can't delete your Threads account without also deleting your Instagram account.

https://www.makeuseof.com/you-cant-delete-threads-without-deleting-instagram/

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, really.  This sort of stuff is typical behavior for Facebook.  Climb into bed with Zuck at your own risk.

On the subject of social media in general, I would encourage everyone to remember that you're competing against people who make their living doing social media stuff.  They do it as a full-time job, and they're experts at it.  You're competing with them for human eyeballs, and you're competing with them for algorithm love.  You'll have to invest considerable time and effort in order to get significant traction.  Which, of course, raises the old question: Would I be better off writing?  Most of the time, the answer to that question is, "Yes, I would be better off using that time writing the next book and getting it out the door faster."

I'm not saying not to give social media stuff a try.  If you have a viable plan, or at least what you think is a viable plan, then by all means, give it a shot.  But temper your expectations.  TANSTAAFL applies here as much as it applies anywhere else.
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R. C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2023, 09:19:29 PM »
...
And you can't delete your Threads account without also deleting your Instagram account.
...

Meta realized the no delete was an error and stated they will adjust Threads to allow removal without deleting INstagram.

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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2023, 10:11:08 PM »
On the subject of social media in general, I would encourage everyone to remember that you're competing against people who make their living doing social media stuff.

We've been competing in the attention economy for some time now. It's all saturated beyond belief. Writing more is no longer a reliable strategy on its own, especially when we factor in the pay to play gatekeepers. It doesn't matter if you have one book no one knows about or 50.

Social media, on the other hand, isn't really a competition like that.

If someone decides to become a model railroad influencer, they're only competing against other model railroad influencers. And then, maybe it's just the HO guys. The demographics keep getting increasingly granular, until it's a pretty narrowly defined niche. And that tribe will find you.

And we're back to the niche celebrity strategy.

The chances of finding success with content creation (books, film, art, music) is as low as it ever was, we just have more opportunities to try. We should be Artists because we have a passion for it first. Most of us were writing long before KDP became a thing, we just weren't publishing. Same goes for social media.

Be a big fish in a narrowly defined pond, be unique, be non-fungible, and do it (Art/Content) because you want to do it. Have fun. Be successful at that - and the money will probably find you too.
 

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2023, 10:35:56 PM »
...
I'm not saying not to give social media stuff a try.  If you have a viable plan, or at least what you think is a viable plan, then by all means, give it a shot.  But temper your expectations.  TANSTAAFL applies here as much as it applies anywhere else.

Yes, sir, there is no free lunch.  However, "The small businessman is smart; he realizes there's no free lunch. On the other hand, he knows where to go to get a good inexpensive sandwich."  - Adam Osborne

Below is a passage from page 84 of my book Ptarmigan Lane. Written in 2020, updated yesterday, Ptarmigan Lane is a spy thriller with its roots in governmental entities abusing AI. 

“Ayding, what will they do with all the data?”
“Allison, that is the real question. My core code makes the base code almost as accurate as a tracking chip. It can track you anywhere a camera is connected to the WEB.”
“TikTok?”
“TikTok is just one source: Facebook, Instagram, Google, Threads, anywhere people load photos. Every selfie taken and loaded to the Cloud is used as a comparison source. Tagging photos with names make recognition much easier. The augmented AI could ID you whenever you look at your phone.”
“Well… f(*&. I almost screwed up. Bad.”

R.C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2023, 03:02:22 AM »
I've seen one good idea recently — blogging not as an author, but as one of your book's main characters. It's close to like a mini serialisation of your current series or book.
Of all your followers, you want like 95% of them to want your next book, not want them to buy their next book.
In the old days, when I used to have release parties that were Facebook events, I created pages for significant characters, went through the process to make them co-managers of my author page, and I was then able to comment as any of therm. (This idea isn't my original creation, but I forget where I got it.)

On the whole, people liked interacting with the characters. I'm not sure my blog audience is large enough to get the same result, though.

Maybe I missed this earlier, but whey did you quit doing the parties?  Facebook pages aren't that great but groups still get traction.  :dog1:
My last one was August of 2015. I enjoyed them, but they were also very time-consuming.


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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2023, 03:30:48 AM »
On the subject of social media in general, I would encourage everyone to remember that you're competing against people who make their living doing social media stuff.

We've been competing in the attention economy for some time now. It's all saturated beyond belief. Writing more is no longer a reliable strategy on its own, especially when we factor in the pay to play gatekeepers. It doesn't matter if you have one book no one knows about or 50.

Social media, on the other hand, isn't really a competition like that.

If someone decides to become a model railroad influencer, they're only competing against other model railroad influencers. And then, maybe it's just the HO guys. The demographics keep getting increasingly granular, until it's a pretty narrowly defined niche. And that tribe will find you.

And we're back to the niche celebrity strategy.

The chances of finding success with content creation (books, film, art, music) is as low as it ever was, we just have more opportunities to try. We should be Artists because we have a passion for it first. Most of us were writing long before KDP became a thing, we just weren't publishing. Same goes for social media.

Be a big fish in a narrowly defined pond, be unique, be non-fungible, and do it (Art/Content) because you want to do it. Have fun. Be successful at that - and the money will probably find you too.
Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time seeing how the niche celebrity strategy applies to authors.

Yes, each one of us is undoubtedly different. We all have our own unique ways of bringing enjoyment to readers. But that's different from being a model railroad influencer.

Model railroads is indeed a small niche. But, although some people might really love the way I write fantasy, the vast majority of readers will also like a lot of other approaches to fantasy, maybe even most approaches. I'm guessing that there are a lot more fantasy writers than there are model railroad experts. So trying to compare the two seems a stretch to me.


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LilyBLily

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2023, 07:25:17 AM »
There's a difference between being a niche celebrity and being such an object of desire/fannish behavior that people will follow you to anything you do just to get a piece of you. Most book celebrities do not exert that kind of magnetism.

Notoriously, in the past many TV stars perpetrated record albums despite being totally unable to sing. More recently, various other big name celebs have "written" children's books and gotten contracts based on their celebrity. Their fans were apparently rabid enough to buy.

Are indie fiction authors likely to be able to exert the same kind of draw? Doubtful.
 
 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2023, 08:12:06 AM »
It's the "X True" fans theory.  Kevin Kelly who I think originated the "1,000 True Fans" concept obviously started with 1,000 fans in mind.  That is only an estimate and can vary based on what you are able to sell.  Li Jin suggested 100 true fans.  The latter is more applicable to non-fiction as it's based around bettering one's life.  That is, if you can teach people how to do something worthwhile, you can attract people willing to pay more money for your expertise.

It's unlikely someone is going to pay you $1,000 per year to read your historical fiction/scifi/romance/thriller/fantasy/whatever novels.  If you can teach them how to fix their life or eat better or earn a lot more money, then you've got a chance.

So, for fiction writers, we're probably looking closer to the 1,000 true fans model which is where you get 1,000 fans to each pay you an average of $100 per year.  Adjust according to what fans are willing to spend and/or how much income you hope to achieve.

And, don't just look at books.  There are behind-the-scenes opportunities for showing them how you write or research the books, merchandise sales (t-shirts, mouse pads, coffee mugs, etc.), limited editions and so on.  Any combination of those can get you to the $100 (or whatever) mark.  And if some pay $50 and others $200, you're still getting there.

Of course, if you limit yourself to thinking about "How can I sell more books on Amazon?", you're probably not going to get there.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2023, 09:23:47 AM »
...
And you can't delete your Threads account without also deleting your Instagram account.
...

Meta realized the no delete was an error and stated they will adjust Threads to allow removal without deleting INstagram.

R.C.


That's good to hear.  :)
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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2023, 10:45:15 PM »
Model railroad influencers are exactly the same as writers or musicians or any other content creator. From a business perspective, they're all producing widgets. The tactics and strategies are all the same. It's only at the last mile that the brand specifics become relevant.

But we also need to recognize that for many creators, getting discovered or signed or rich isn't the goal. They're just trying to make cubicle money ($60k-ish), but by doing the thing they love, or at least doing it in their pajamas. This is why many of them have multiple revenue streams centered around their brand.

Marketing hasn't changed, we just have more tools now.

___

Of course, if you limit yourself to thinking about "How can I sell more books on Amazon?", you're probably not going to get there.

This.
 

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2023, 11:16:40 PM »
... It's only at the last mile that the brand specifics become relevant. ...

What if, social media is an avenue for finding not one, but many "last mile" options for becoming a relevant brand?

Of course, if you limit yourself to thinking about "How can I sell more books on Amazon?", you're probably not going to get there.

Can you expand on this statement? I presume, you are referring to marketing brand as a multi-discipline/multi-platform effort.

R.C.

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2023, 01:53:03 AM »
Model railroad influencers are exactly the same as writers or musicians or any other content creator. From a business perspective, they're all producing widgets. The tactics and strategies are all the same. It's only at the last mile that the brand specifics become relevant.

But we also need to recognize that for many creators, getting discovered or signed or rich isn't the goal. They're just trying to make cubicle money ($60k-ish), but by doing the thing they love, or at least doing it in their pajamas. This is why many of them have multiple revenue streams centered around their brand.

Marketing hasn't changed, we just have more tools now.

It seems to me the difference is scale. Statistics in this area are elusive, but it seems likely there are far more fantasy writers than there are model railroad influencers. It's inherently easier to stand out in a smaller group, isn't it? And, as has already been pointed out, nonfiction has some advantages over fiction if the author has personal expertise.  For instance, it's much easier to sell from your own website if you're an expert in some in-demand field.


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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2023, 11:00:52 PM »
It seems to me the difference is scale. Statistics in this area are elusive, but it seems likely there are far more fantasy writers than there are model railroad influencers. It's inherently easier to stand out in a smaller group, isn't it? And, as has already been pointed out, nonfiction has some advantages over fiction if the author has personal expertise.  For instance, it's much easier to sell from your own website if you're an expert in some in-demand field.

It's not easier. And the strategies are pretty much the same, because it's not just about standing out, it's about being accepted specifically for that difference.

I agree, being an expert is an advantage. But how does one identify an expert? Because they say so? Maybe, but probably not. It usually takes a lot more than that. And that's where public relations/social media comes in. We think they're an expert because their people use the media to tell us they are - by promoting all of their industry activities, awards, lectures and interviews, either directly or discretely. Ergo, anyone can become an expert of whatever their own thing is, just by publicly engaging with that community and doing their thing - a lot.

Apart from the content itself, fiction writers are just like musicians and movie stars. If you're interesting, people care about what you're doing. And the only way to let people know you're interesting is to be interesting someplace where they can see you being interesting.


... It's only at the last mile that the brand specifics become relevant. ...

What if, social media is an avenue for finding not one, but many "last mile" options for becoming a relevant brand?

I think lots of revenue streams are open to writers - beyond writing books - but still based upon being that same genre writer. And each of these options further defines and expands the brand. YouTube can be an amazing revenue stream all on it's own. And no matter how saturated it appears to be, new channels are getting it done all the time.

Because it's not about going viral or competing in a zero sum game, it's about connecting and engaging with your tiny little tribe - which could be millions of folks. We literally don't know.

For example, this is a partial list of heavy metal genres:

Heavy Metal
Speed Metal
Thrash Metal
Power Metal
Death Metal
Melodic Death Metal
Technical Death Metal
Brutal Death Metal
Slam Death Metal
Black Metal
First Wave of Black Metal (Blackened Thrash Metal)
True Norwegian Black Metal
Depressive Suicidal Black Metal
Symphonic Black Metal
Post Black Metal
Atmospheric Black Metal
Pagan Metal
Viking Metal
Folk Metal
Symphonic Metal
Gothic Metal
Glam Metal
Hair Metal
Doom Metal
Funeral Doom Metal
Stoner Doom Metal
Groove Metal
Industrial Metal
Modern Metal
Neoclassical Metal
New Wave Of British Heavy Metal
Post Metal
Progressive Metal
Avantgarde Metal
Sludge
Djent
Drone
Kawaii Metal
Pirate Metal
Nu Metal
Neue Deutsche Härte
Math Metal
Crossover
Grindcore
Goregrind
Deathgrind
Powerviolence
Hardcore
Metalcore
Deathcore
Post Hardcore
Mathcore



Each one of them is distinct, with it's own tropes, culture and expectations. Each one them also has its own non-exclusive tribe - millions of folks.

Find your tribe.

Be non-fungible.  :banana:
 
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Lorri Moulton

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2023, 04:15:02 AM »
I have followers! What I need are buyers. LOL

I've always looked at social media more as branding (which I've mentioned before) because people go to retailers to buy. Or maybe our stores if we're lucky. 

IMHO, people are on social media to be informed and/or entertained.  If we can do that, we might keep them around long enough to look at our books...and even buy a few.

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2023, 02:45:41 PM »
I have followers! What I need are buyers. LOL

I've always looked at social media more as branding (which I've mentioned before) because people go to retailers to buy. Or maybe our stores if we're lucky. 

IMHO, people are on social media to be informed and/or entertained.  If we can do that, we might keep them around long enough to look at our books...and even buy a few.

Honestly, I don't have the energy. I know people who do, but I'm not convinced it sells their books. However, it gives them pleasure, so why not? For them, not me.
 
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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2023, 11:48:45 PM »
I have followers! What I need are buyers. LOL

I've always looked at social media more as branding (which I've mentioned before) because people go to retailers to buy. Or maybe our stores if we're lucky. 

IMHO, people are on social media to be informed and/or entertained.  If we can do that, we might keep them around long enough to look at our books...and even buy a few.
My situation is the same.

I have lots of FB followers. If they all bought books every time I had a new release, I'd be in good shape. They interact, but they don't buy. At least, not much. I think a few of them are genuine fans, but most are...I don't even know. Why follow an author page if you have no interest in the person's writing? It's a mystery to me.

I continue to post, and I try to find interesting things to talk about, but like LilyBLily, I don't have the energy to be a social butterfly on FB or elsewhere.

Bands may not be the best analogy to our situation because they already interact with their fans, particularly in live performance. Concerts are a thing. It's easier to brand if people see you all the time. Public readings are a thing only if you're already famous. Actors are similar--their fans see them all the time and think they know them.

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying whatever approach they think might work for them. But there are a lot of us who got into writing because we thought we could produce quality reading material, not because we necessarily wanted to be celebrities.

I enjoy my own life, but objectively, it's not going to seem very interesting to a lot of other people. So if I have to sell myself rather than my books, I might as well give up now.



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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2023, 12:36:28 AM »
I have lots of FB followers...

Maybe your tribe isn't on facebook?

Quote
I enjoy my own life, but objectively, it's not going to seem very interesting to a lot of other people. So if I have to sell myself rather than my books, I might as well give up now.

 :HB

I had to overcome this myself.

For whatever reason, throughout our lives, we're attracted to various artists, writers and musicians. And some of them, again, for whatever reason, become special to us. We like them more than the others, often, a lot more. We never stop to think about how they see themselves, we can only see them through our own filter, our own experience and how they affected us - our tumultuous swirl of irrational emotions.

So, it doesn't matter what you think of yourself - fans think you're the coolest f*cking thing ever!   :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
 

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2023, 01:02:42 AM »
Well, I'm sure your fans do see you that way, or you wouldn't be advocating this approach.

Quote
For whatever reason, throughout our lives, we're attracted to various artists, writers and musicians. And some of them, again, for whatever reason, become special to us. We like them more than the others, often, a lot more. We never stop to think about how they see themselves, we can only see them through our own filter, our own experience and how they affected us - our tumultuous swirl of irrational emotions.

This sounds like something that can't really be controlled.


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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2023, 07:42:33 AM »
Not my fans - ALL fans.

And we don't need to control anything. We go out and do stuff, let people know we did it and try to be visibly interesting along the way. Our fans - for reasons stated above - will think we're wicked interesting because they're invested in us being neato - it's part of their self-image, they need us to be neato  -  even if we're so unequivocally not!   grint

This is why they say never meet your heroes.
 

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2023, 11:52:23 PM »
Not my fans - ALL fans.

And we don't need to control anything. We go out and do stuff, let people know we did it and try to be visibly interesting along the way. Our fans - for reasons stated above - will think we're wicked interesting because they're invested in us being neato - it's part of their self-image, they need us to be neato  -  even if we're so unequivocally not!   grint

This is why they say never meet your heroes.

I feel as if there's a chicken-egg problem here. I see how your suggestions work for a person who already has genuine fans. But going out and doing stuff, however interestingly presented, isn't going to attract fans if nobody much sees it. And it takes quite a bit of exposure for someone to become a fan whose self-image is tied up with their thoughts about the celebrity in question.

Your ideas are much better than the ones I'm about to use as examples, but the examples illustrate the same kind of problem I'm talking about.

For a while, there were a lot of companies offering to write professional press releases for authors. But the problem wasn't that authors couldn't write their own releases. A lot of them also had journalism backgrounds and could easily have written their own. The problem was that news outlets didn't give a **** about press releases like that unless the person involved was already famous. (Local papers are occasionally an exception, but even then, you need to have some visibility in the community. News outlet coverage could indeed increase someone's fame, but to get that coverage, you'd already have to have fame. Chicken-egg problem.

Similarly, there' still a "guru" out there offering to connect authors to professional screenwriters to turn their book into a screenplay. The problem with that is that no studio nor even indie film producer is going to be interested in a screenplay adaptation of a book they've never heard of by an author they've never heard of.  Getting a movie would make you famous, but you'd have to be famous to get a movie. Chicken-egg. One might be able to find an exception here or there, but I can't think of a single case.

You see where I'm going with this?


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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2023, 08:45:26 AM »
I totally see what you're saying.

This is where patience comes in. Name any celebrity you want, and I can almost guarantee they weren't born one. They did their thing. People noticed. And, eventually, after doing their thing a whole lot more - they became celebrities. The same force that attracts fans is the same force that makes people famous, so that by the time the person is a bona fide celerity, they also have a sh*t ton of fans. It's a symbiotic/simultaneous thing.

Social media is a short cut to make folks aware of whatever your creative thing is. It just takes time.
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2023, 09:46:46 AM »
I think most readers want to know more about the stories.  This is why series are helpful in building a social media following. 

Or we can talk about something in most/all of our stories that appeals to readers.  This can work with fiction and non-fiction.

Finally, there might be some fans who really like an author, but that can feel kind of stalker-y for lack of a better term.  I'd rather they focus on the stories than my personal life. I might share a few photos of the cats or horses, but I don't want them getting too involved with me. 
Focus on the CHARACTERS.  :dog1:

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2023, 11:42:14 AM »
I follow several authors and really could not care less about their pets. When's the next book coming out?
 
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PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2023, 10:05:02 PM »
It's not about sharing your life, in fact, I think I said not to go there somewhere in one of these threads. It's about your personality (the brand) as the creator of your Art. And yes, readers care what their favorite authors think of things, especially other books and films. They respect your opinion about how narratives happen, the recipes for story, yours as well as other's - about all media, really.

When it comes to social media and the niche celebrity strategy, there is no difference between writers and any other Creative. It's all about visibility. Most followers won't buy your stuff, but the goal is finding enough who will - your tribe/market demographic/fans.

I've seen it work too many times to discount - if one has the time and the patience, that is.
 

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2023, 01:34:08 PM »
More tips:

1. Find your tribe. That's your fans. That's the whole point of social media. There's no point being followed by people who don't care about what you're doing. You need to find the folks who will read your stuff and support you, buy merch, follow you on Patreon, YouTube, whatever. Raw numbers are better than nothing, and they definitely get the ball rolling as far as credibility goes, but a curated list of followers is the goal. Find your tribe.

2. Review/comment on books, movies, television/streaming shows, etc. in your genre, adjacent genres and stories with similar characters or situations (for example, anti-heroes or empowerment stories or whatever), including cool YouTube content - on as many platforms as you have time for. Remember to share and tag all of your posts and content across the platforms you participate on. Make it easy for your tribe to find you.

ALWAYS be positive in your reviews/comments. It's a short form format so pick something super cool, character, plot (no spoilers), crazy scene or idea and briefly say just how super cool it is. Video memes work well too, as long as they are either super inciteful or funny. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

ALWAYS tag the author, their publisher (if they have one) and any group that might enjoy the comment, including your own groups, such as facebook groups, the streaming network, blogs on the subject. Tag as many core folks as makes sense without being goofy about it. Keep a list.

3. NEVER be political or religious. Let your books speak for you. Just steer clear - way way clear. No, even further...further...yeah, over there. Actually, um...take another step back just for good measure.

4. If you do video posts, like YouTube content, talk about the gear you use, cameras, lenses, etc. Talk about the software you use for writing, for covers. Talk about your process, the designers you use, cover artists, book services, etc. - in both writing AND with your social media content. Tag everyone related to what you're talking about. Posts with video get shared way way more often.

5.  ALWAYS stay on brand. This is your opportunity to present yourself exactly how you want the market - your fans - to see you, it's like a perpetual first date. Be on your best behavior - fly casual! Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

6. Talk about products that relate to what you're writing or that you stand behind -  but don't violate # 3 above. Keep it short and remember to tag the company and any group that might find the post useful. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.

7. ALWAYS be authentic. So, if don't have something nice to say, don't lie, just find another discussion. Don't be duplicitous, or sneaky, be above suspicion. Be as transparent as possible - but keep your private life out of it.

8. ALWAYS appear to be living your best life. Keep complaining to a minimum. It's fine to talk about how the tree fell on your house, but finish it up with how amazing the contractors and services were - even if they weren't. Remember to tag all of them. Be on your best behavior. It's like driving a company car with the name on the side. Oh, I almost forgot, posts with videos get shared way way more often.

9. ALWAYS be active. Share other posts and content regularly. Participate. Pay it forward. And tag everyone that needs tagging.

10. Posts with videos get shared way way more often.


🤔 I follow a lot of authors on social media, both traditionally published and indie; and, at least in my sample of a few dozen that I've followed a long time, none of the ones that have a big following adhere to point 3 or point 8 or the only say nice things of points 2 and 7 or the private life exclusion of point 7.
The few I've seen that do follow those points have, understandably, small followings because they're obviously anything but authentic. (Point 7 on authenticity is good but at odds with many of the other points if sincerely applied).
Not saying they're all political flamethrowers like Stephen King (his stature exempts him from any of the rules), but a unitone ("be positive"), sanitized social media persona isn't very compelling and certainly isn't authentic. And big name author accounts that share not just highlights but some unpleasant aspects (not deep TMI but candid) of their private lives seem more the norm than not. Nor do they eschew religion or politics. Some are frequently vocal on one or both; some only rarely comment on such things. But I can't think of one that doesn't touch on one or the other subjects from time to time. It's human.
This is all entirely observational from my following authors. I don't presume to have any insight on how to cultivate a big social media following. I've never tried to build one and kinda prefer the freedom of being no one of consequence. But I do follow an eclectic mix of authors/genres and they're just not being that... artificial. 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2023, 11:56:49 PM »
I totally see what you're saying.

This is where patience comes in. Name any celebrity you want, and I can almost guarantee they weren't born one. They did their thing. People noticed. And, eventually, after doing their thing a whole lot more - they became celebrities. The same force that attracts fans is the same force that makes people famous, so that by the time the person is a bona fide celerity, they also have a sh*t ton of fans. It's a symbiotic/simultaneous thing.

Social media is a short cut to make folks aware of whatever your creative thing is. It just takes time.

I agree that it takes time for social media followers to become true fans. As you say, patience is necessary.

The process whereby people became famous, though, I might dispute a little.

Yes, people generally aren't born famous--exactly. But we can't entirely rule out family connections, especially in the entertainment industry. (Yes, I'm talking about the Tori Spelling Syndrome, which is far more common than we realize. Sometimes, the family relationship is obscured by name changes. One of my former students camouflaged his connection to the person who directed most of the movies he'd been in up to that point by adopting a stage name. I caught that only because I knew him before he'd done that.)

That said, there are certainly people who succeed without family connections, and authors don't typically have family connections in the first place. But we also have other characteristics that distinguish us from actors and musicians.

Partially, I'm reacting to the advice that authors need to sell other things besides books. Musicians tend to get noticed by performing in small venues, gradually moving up to larger venues, opening for better known musicians before becoming main acts, etc. In other words, there's a gradual progression that mostly involves increased musical exposure--not selling other things.

With actors, the progression is similar. One starts with smaller roles (or maybe larger ones in smaller-scale movies) and gradually move up to larger roles and larger projects. There are certainly exceptions, but as with musicians, success is often a gradual build.

Indie writers, on the other hand, don't really have that kind of ladder to climb. (Trad authors do a little--moving from smaller publishers to larger ones, moving from smaller print runs to larger ones, etc. And we know that an author's past successes lead to bigger advances, more publicity, that kind of thing.) Indie authors do become more visible through success, but we don't really have a ladder in the same way. I can imagine one--starting out writing short stories and gradually progressing to novels, for example. But these days, the audience for short stories isn't huge, and the publications of old where a writer could start out are mostly defunct. The sites that might serve the same purpose seem mostly geared toward particular genres and demographics.

Swag and related products have their place, but it seems more likely swag will sell when someone already has diehard fans.
 


Tickling the imagination one book at a time
Bill Hiatt | fiction website | education website | Facebook author page | Twitter
 

PJ Post

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2023, 12:58:14 AM »
But I do follow an eclectic mix of authors/genres and they're just not being that... artificial.

Being positive isn't the same as being obsequious. Neither am I suggesting that anyone should be artificial, I'm saying we need to be selective. It's like refraining from saying 'wobbly dildo' at church, or the difference between giving into road rage or letting it go. If you're starting out on social media - refrain, let it go, and focus on the positives.

To be clear, this is a specific branding strategy designed to improve market potential and generate more revenue.



I agree that it takes time for social media followers to become true fans. As you say, patience is necessary.

The process whereby people became famous, though, I might dispute a little.

*snip*

Swag and related products have their place, but it seems more likely swag will sell when someone already has diehard fans.
 

 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2023, 01:13:18 AM »
To be clear, this is a specific branding strategy designed to improve market potential and generate more revenue.

How is this strategy working for you?  Do you have any estimates on what percentage of your total sales come as a result?  How about book sales vs. swag or other non-book sales?
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2023, 04:48:58 AM »
There are followers, lurkers, buyers, and even a few fans.  Social media is like anything else...part of the funnel.   

IMHO, how we use it depends on how we want to define our brand.  I don't talk about politics or religion on social media.  Polite small talk is basically part of my brand.

Other authors might depend on 'those conversations' to define their brand.  Choose what works for you.

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Social Media - Let's Increase Our Followers
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2023, 01:09:30 PM »
To be clear, this is a specific branding strategy designed to improve market potential and generate more revenue.

How is this strategy working for you?  Do you have any estimates on what percentage of your total sales come as a result?  How about book sales vs. swag or other non-book sales?
I know people sometimes don't want to talk about their own specifics too much, but how about an example of a well-known author who owes his or her success to selling swag? I don't mean people who sold it after they became famous, which I know would work. (JK Rowling). What I'm looking for is examples of people who became famous in part by selling swag. Only then am I going to accept the Yoda comparison.  grint


Tickling the imagination one book at a time
Bill Hiatt | fiction website | education website | Facebook author page | Twitter