Author Topic: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping  (Read 3917 times)

Lynn

I was reading an article today (procrastination, really) and thought there were some excellent parallels to the craft of writing and how we learn.

(https://fs.blog/2020/01/inner-game-of-tennis/)

Quote
Compare this to the typical tennis lesson. As Gallwey describes it, the teacher wants the student to feel that the cost of the lesson was worthwhile. So they give detailed, continuous feedback. Every time they spot the slightest flaw, they highlight it. The result is that the student does indeed feel the lesson fee is justifiable. They’re now aware of dozens of errors they need to fix—so they book more classes.

In his early days as a tennis coach, Gallwey took this approach. Over time, he saw that when he stepped back and gave his students less feedback, not more, they improved faster. Players would correct obvious mistakes without any guidance. On some deeper level, they knew the correct way to play tennis. They just needed to overcome the habits of the mind getting in the way. Whatever impeded them was not a lack of information. Gallwey writes:

    I was beginning to learn what all good pros and students of tennis must learn: that images are better than words, showing better than telling, too much instruction worse than none, and that trying too hard often produces negative results.

There are numerous instances outside of sports when we can see how trying too hard can backfire.

I feel like I grew the most, and grew into my own voice as a writer, when I finally stopped using beta readers and critique partners and just doing the best I could every time. I learned what I needed to fix by reading widely and then going back and reading my older stuff (not purposely for this but just because I do re-read my stuff because I like it) and seeing those things that I could totally improve on now that I had space to see them.

I don't think that it's a good idea to hold a book to go back and read it months and years later and try to make it perfect. I think a writer's energy is much better spent writing new stuff and putting those things they've learned into practice.

I guess if you think you're never going to write more than two, three, or four books, then it might make a lot more sense to save each one, go back to it as you learn more, and try to fix it before you release, but I'd think if you had time for that, you'd have time to put it out, and write another book. :D

If you figure you're going to write numerous books every year, writing and moving on is the best way to learn, in my experience.

This was probably a case of confirmation bias, but I really thought it explained why I did so much better as a writer once I stopped asking for feedback and just practiced writing to the best of my ability with every story I wrote.

Now I don't even think about it. I just write the best story I can every time I sit down to write and I move on. And yeah, every time I read another book, I think, hey, that's cool how they did that. I bet I could do a better job with that, too. :D
Don't rush me.
 
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LilyBLily

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2020, 04:21:06 AM »
Beta readers can be helpful, but I try to keep away from professional writers as critiquers. They go looking for things that are wrong. It's not a help when what I want to know is if something will pass muster with a reader. If it will, if the beta reader doesn't comment on it negatively, I let it go.

Yes, there are some inelegant spots in my earliest books, spots perhaps I could or should rewrite. Not going there. 
 
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Wonder

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2020, 04:47:10 AM »
In my non-writing career, I found that my employees improved their performance far quicker if I emphasized "Here is what you're doing great. More of that, please" as opposed to focusing on checking every little mistake. There's a whole school of thought around this phenomenon in the social sciences - it's called appreciative inquiry.

I went to a critique group for a while. I liked the writers, and they were very professional in their critiques. But their opinions about my story were swaying me too much. I was writing a book by committee instead of writing my book. So I dropped out and these days I use a couple beta readers who like my genre as a sanity check that I haven't done anything too dumb.

Wonder

 
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Shoe

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 04:50:31 AM »
and grew into my own voice as a writer, when I finally stopped using beta readers and critique partners

You don't want your book written by a committee.

Some writers starting out really need solid critiques if they're going to get anywhere, but I would think it's a phase to be outgrown.
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 
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Lynn

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2020, 04:54:00 AM »
and grew into my own voice as a writer, when I finally stopped using beta readers and critique partners

You don't want your book written by a committee.

Some writers starting out really need solid critiques if they're going to get anywhere, but I would think it's a phase to be outgrown.

Maybe, maybe not. I do feel on some level that early betas and critiques did more harm than good. If I weren't so stubborn, pretty sure I wouldn't still be writing at all after some of them. ;D And that's the thing, when you're new at it, you have no idea if you're putting yourself in the hands of a career killer or that one person that will inspire you to keep going until the day you die.
Don't rush me.
 
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sandree

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2020, 05:23:21 AM »
Great article! I think I am currently stuck in exactly this negative place with the beta reads I got on my WIP.

I had three paid beta reads on my WIP. I found they were less than helpful. One gave very little feedback and then disappeared. There were 4 inline comments in the first chapter and then none for the rest of the book and a short email with two paragraphs of feedback but explaining that she was going in for surgery. I thought maybe she made a mistake and sent me the wrong file. Four emails later and still no response. Did she die on the operating table? Was it the right file? Was my book so bad she just gave up? I’ll never know.

The second was OK - somewhat helpful.

The third was more detailed but caused me more angst than the rest. The first comment that rankled was that she said she was making allowances for this being a very rough first draft. What did that mean? I didn’t think it was a rough draft and it certainly wasn’t a first draft so my ears heard - this is terrible. Another comment was that the men should be stronger. This reader was a romance author though she said she was OK with reading science fiction. I think she was seeing the story through a romance lens. In this particular story, women were the main focus and the men were secondary characters and were not intended to be “strong,” whatever that means. I’ve forgotten what else she said because I had to ignore it all to even get back to editing.

I will be thinking twice about paying someone to beta read...
 
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Arches

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2020, 05:57:40 AM »
I was reading an article today (procrastination, really) and thought there were some excellent parallels to the craft of writing and how we learn.

(https://fs.blog/2020/01/inner-game-of-tennis/)

Quote
Compare this to the typical tennis lesson. As Gallwey describes it, the teacher wants the student to feel that the cost of the lesson was worthwhile. So they give detailed, continuous feedback. Every time they spot the slightest flaw, they highlight it. The result is that the student does indeed feel the lesson fee is justifiable. They’re now aware of dozens of errors they need to fix—so they book more classes.

In his early days as a tennis coach, Gallwey took this approach. Over time, he saw that when he stepped back and gave his students less feedback, not more, they improved faster. Players would correct obvious mistakes without any guidance. On some deeper level, they knew the correct way to play tennis. They just needed to overcome the habits of the mind getting in the way. Whatever impeded them was not a lack of information. Gallwey writes:

    I was beginning to learn what all good pros and students of tennis must learn: that images are better than words, showing better than telling, too much instruction worse than none, and that trying too hard often produces negative results.

There are numerous instances outside of sports when we can see how trying too hard can backfire.

I feel like I grew the most, and grew into my own voice as a writer, when I finally stopped using beta readers and critique partners and just doing the best I could every time. I learned what I needed to fix by reading widely and then going back and reading my older stuff (not purposely for this but just because I do re-read my stuff because I like it) and seeing those things that I could totally improve on now that I had space to see them.

I don't think that it's a good idea to hold a book to go back and read it months and years later and try to make it perfect. I think a writer's energy is much better spent writing new stuff and putting those things they've learned into practice.

I guess if you think you're never going to write more than two, three, or four books, then it might make a lot more sense to save each one, go back to it as you learn more, and try to fix it before you release, but I'd think if you had time for that, you'd have time to put it out, and write another book. :D

If you figure you're going to write numerous books every year, writing and moving on is the best way to learn, in my experience.

This was probably a case of confirmation bias, but I really thought it explained why I did so much better as a writer once I stopped asking for feedback and just practiced writing to the best of my ability with every story I wrote.

Now I don't even think about it. I just write the best story I can every time I sit down to write and I move on. And yeah, every time I read another book, I think, hey, that's cool how they did that. I bet I could do a better job with that, too. :D

That's one perspective, I guess. And I'm sure there are a few folks out there who are born geniuses, Mozarts of the written word who instinctively understand how to write compelling stories. And maybe there are a few more authors who are capable of seeing most of their own flaws. That leaves us with the other ninety-nine percent of us who actually can benefit tremendously from positive criticism by others.

My perspective comes from participating in a large regional writer's group for about a decade and participating in several critique groups over most of that time. I've seen many hundreds of writing samples from manuscripts prepared by both new and experienced authors.  And human nature being as it is, most of them were convinced they'd written a book that would become a classic. Or at least, a best-seller. Maybe they wouldn't say that out loud, but we all think it.

Nevertheless, out of all those authors and manuscripts, I've only seen a few that couldn't benefit from constructive criticism. That doesn't mean an author has to accept every critique, but why not at least listen with an open mind? It takes a tough skin, but this is no profession for the thin-skinned. Listening to others isn't the same as trying too hard.
 
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angela

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Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 06:01:09 AM »
I had my 2nd novel beta read widely by lots of people. They had tons of notes and feedback, much of which I addressed.

When I released the book to the public, the posted reviews could not BE any more different from the types of things my beta readers commented on.

All those beta readers did was delay the release of my 3rd book, my 4th, etc.

But I couldn't have learned that lesson without doing what I did.

I do continued to get feedback, but only from a small number of trusted sources.
 
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twicebitten

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 06:14:21 AM »
and grew into my own voice as a writer, when I finally stopped using beta readers and critique partners

You don't want your book written by a committee.

Some writers starting out really need solid critiques if they're going to get anywhere, but I would think it's a phase to be outgrown.

This. When I realized I'd been going to critique groups without taking any advice at all (beyond "here's a typo.Fix that") I saw that I was going for the social aspect. The only people whose advice was useful to me were published writers well beyond me.  It wasn't that those were the only people I listened to... they actually were the only ones who could articulate how to fix my problems.

I had a great proofreader (who  unfortunately quit), and if I'd gone totally off the rails, he'd say something, once every 4-5 books. That was nice. But it probably wasn't crucial to sales.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 04:31:25 AM by twicebitten »
 
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Lynn

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 06:17:15 AM »

My perspective comes from participating in a large regional writer's group for about a decade and participating in several critique groups over most of that time. I've seen many hundreds of writing samples from manuscripts prepared by both new and experienced authors.  And human nature being as it is, most of them were convinced they'd written a book that would become a classic. Or at least, a best-seller. Maybe they wouldn't say that out loud, but we all think it.

Nevertheless, out of all those authors and manuscripts, I've only seen a few that couldn't benefit from constructive criticism. That doesn't mean an author has to accept every critique, but why not at least listen with an open mind? It takes a tough skin, but this is no profession for the thin-skinned. Listening to others isn't the same as trying too hard.

I'm going to have to disagree on the thin-skinned comment. Certain personality types can take criticism more in stride than others, but I don't for a minute believe that it's necessary for you to learn to take it to do well. I don't take it at all. I ignore it. I don't read reviews, and I don't send my stuff out for beta reads or alpha reads or critiques or advance reviews. I'm pretty thin-skinned to be honest. I don't like being criticized and I avoid it because it gets into my head and makes me want to quit writing. And then sheer spite kicks in and I want to keep going just to piss off the critic. ;D

I'm not a genius and don't pretend to be. What I do is listen to myself. Am I happy with this book? If I am, that's all I need to feel comfortable putting a book out. I don't have to be thick-skinned to do that.

You get too thick-skinned and then it's just all ego. Who wants that?

I was part of RWA for years and had a critique partner and got lots of feedback through contests and I can't think of one piece of criticism of my fiction that actually helped me. I learned almost everything I know from reading craft books, reading fiction, and then taking that knowledge and doing my best to apply it.

You're in the fan fic community, right? (I totally might have you confused with someone else, if so, sorry!:D) Beta reading is huge in that community. I've both offered and received lots of betas there, and most of them were so unhelpful as to be damaging. And my critique partner, unfortunately, seemed to be completely unable to divorce what she wanted in a story (and how she'd write it) from what she picked at in my stories. :D

So I guess I just can't relate. I have no experience that says beta readers, reviews, critiques or critics offer genuine opportunities to learn.

But if you've found that, I'm not knocking it. I just think it needs said that it's not egotistical or wrong to say that isn't for you. Getting rid of all that extraneous feedback could be exactly what you need to grow into your own voice as a writer.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 06:20:20 AM by Lynn »
Don't rush me.
 
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Arches

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 06:29:39 AM »
. . .

You're in the fan fic community, right? (I totally might have you confused with someone else, if so, sorry!:D) Beta reading is huge in that community. I've both offered and received lots of betas there, and most of them were so unhelpful as to be damaging. And my critique partner, unfortunately, seemed to be completely unable to divorce what she wanted in a story (and how she'd write it) from what she picked at in my stories. :D

So I guess I just can't relate. I have no experience that says beta readers, reviews, critiques or critics offer genuine opportunities to learn.

But if you've found that, I'm not knocking it. I just think it needs said that it's not egotistical or wrong to say that isn't for you. Getting rid of all that extraneous feedback could be exactly what you need to grow into your own voice as a writer.

You do have me confused with someone else. I'm not involved with fan-fiction. I'm sorry you haven't benefited from beta readers or critique groups. For me, it's been very helpful, but I suppose it depends in part on who's offering the criticism. Best of luck with your writing.
 
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Lynn

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 06:35:41 AM »
. . .

You're in the fan fic community, right? (I totally might have you confused with someone else, if so, sorry!:D) Beta reading is huge in that community. I've both offered and received lots of betas there, and most of them were so unhelpful as to be damaging. And my critique partner, unfortunately, seemed to be completely unable to divorce what she wanted in a story (and how she'd write it) from what she picked at in my stories. :D

So I guess I just can't relate. I have no experience that says beta readers, reviews, critiques or critics offer genuine opportunities to learn.

But if you've found that, I'm not knocking it. I just think it needs said that it's not egotistical or wrong to say that isn't for you. Getting rid of all that extraneous feedback could be exactly what you need to grow into your own voice as a writer.

You do have me confused with someone else. I'm not involved with fan-fiction. I'm sorry you haven't benefited from beta readers or critique groups. For me, it's been very helpful, but I suppose it depends in part on who's offering the criticism. Best of luck with your writing.

Oops. :D But thank you. I do okay. ;)
Don't rush me.
 
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elleoco

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 07:43:44 AM »
I benefited from my critique group. It was a mystery only group and what I submitted (20 pages at a time) was my cozy mystery, Rottweiler Rescue. The main thing I came away with was that my amateur female sleuth was too tough a character for the general public to believe in her - in a cozy, mind you.

So I feminized my sleuth and have generally toned down characters from the way I'd write them if not publishing ever since. And my audience still likes my "strong" heroines, which tells you something about what an ornery hard headed old broad I am.

Even more than that, I learned from critiquing others' work. It's far easier to see what does and doesn't work in someone else's work than in your own. So I'd read something and think, "That doesn't work," and realize, "I bet it didn't work when I did it in __________ either," go back and look, and sure enough.

I am ready to give up on beta readers. If good ones were easier to find, I wouldn't, but they're like hens' teeth, and in my experience, over time even the best become fans and are no longer critical. The main thing I have relied on them for is what I suppose developmental editors do - feedback on story itself and characters, not small stuff. I have done major revision based on beta reader feedback. However, the truth is I already knew what needed to be done, it just took outside opinion to force me to do it. I think I'm past that inner resistance to changing the way I first plunked things out now. Surely I must be. I threw away 30,000 words of a good story a couple of months ago because it needed a different approach.

I will miss some catches that saved me from seeing a review excoriating me for mistakes like attributing something to the Bible that was actually from an Aesop's fable. I'll never know if I miss something like the suggestion from a beta reader that led to extra scenes in Beautiful Bad Man and then to a separate story, Into the Light.

Lorri Moulton

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2020, 08:06:17 AM »
Kristine talked about this recently.


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PJ Post

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 08:38:20 AM »
I think, somewhere along the way, writers need to learn how to write. I'm not being facetious here. There are a lot of ways to go about it, and employing critiques is a good one. At some point though, we know what we're doing and further critiques are a waste of time. But I still believe that, no matter how many books we write, we still need an objective reader to let us know when we've f*cked up, be it plot holes, tone-deafness or whatever. From time to time, we're going to mess up, and no amount of experience is ever going to change that.

On the thin-skinned thing: Creatives need to be able to separate constructive criticism from bullsh*t, and then they need to be able to respond rationally to each accordingly. Sadly, I think this is way easier said than done.
 
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Vijaya

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 03:11:44 AM »
Well said, PJ Post.

Lorri, I really liked that video you posted. Thank you. KKR gives excellent advice about balancing the creative with the critical voice. I have personal experience with editing a story to death to the point of losing the voice. When that happened I went back to the first draft and consolidated the editor's advice. This was a story for little kids about the teeter-totter (the old fashioned type that they no longer make in the US--what a pity) and the criticism was that my animal characters were being too mean to one another and that I was trying to cover too much physics.

I recognize now the fear that accompanies putting a story of your heart out there and perfection really can be the enemy of the good. I'm going to work on being more brave this year. But I find my critique partners useful, especially since they are several steps removed from my story, and can be more objective.


Author of over 100 books and magazine pieces, primarily for children
Vijaya Bodach | Personal Blog | Bodach Books
 
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Post-Crisis D

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 05:48:15 AM »
When requesting feedback, it's perhaps a good idea to be specific about what kind of feedback you're looking for.  For example, if you've written something in first person and your beta reader hates first person narratives, their feedback may be to change it to third person.  That's probably not the type of feedback you're looking for.  You might want to know if you've messed up and the narrator reveals details that they should have no way of knowing, but you're probably otherwise committed to sticking with first person.  So, being specific might help in getting the type of feedback that's going to be the most useful for you.

Similarly, someone that's a better writer in their head than on paper needs a different type of feedback than a skilled writer.  Like if I inexplicably stop.  Sentences in places that make no sense.  Whatsoever and start a new sentence in.  An improbable place.  I need a different sort.  Of feedback than someone who is able.  To string together coherent sentences.  Without breaking up in odd places.  And, yes, I have seen people.  Who write like that and if they asked.  Me to read something of theirs for feedback, I think I would be.  Like, um, no thank you.  But keep up the hard work.  Buddy!
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Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 11:50:12 AM »
Similarly, someone that's a better writer in their head than on paper needs a different type of feedback than a skilled writer.  Like if I inexplicably stop.  Sentences in places that make no sense.  Whatsoever and start a new sentence in.  An improbable place.  I need a different sort.  Of feedback than someone who is able.  To string together coherent sentences.  Without breaking up in odd places.  And, yes, I have seen people.  Who write like that and if they asked.  Me to read something of theirs for feedback, I think I would be.  Like, um, no thank you.  But keep up the hard work.  Buddy!

Actually, that's damn good writing for a character with a major attention deficit or a mental issue, who cant string more than 5 words together without rethinking what they're trying to say. Or can only get an idea out 5 words at a time.

 :hehe :littleclap
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LilyBLily

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2020, 02:14:38 PM »
KKR makes a good point about developmental editors, one that I hadn't considered before but is actually quite obvious. Their purpose is to show you how to shape a story. Their bias is to encourage you to shape it in ways that are already well trodden and approved of by trad pub editors and by the public. So the risk I see in hiring one is that I might take the bias along with the shaping analysis. And then I become another clone. KKR talks about the risk as that of smothering your voice. I see it as incorporating bias against being different from the herd.

This thought makes me feel far less guilty about never having hired a developmental editor. grint
 
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idontknowyet

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2020, 02:55:44 PM »
When requesting feedback, it's perhaps a good idea to be specific about what kind of feedback you're looking for.  For example, if you've written something in first person and your beta reader hates first person narratives, their feedback may be to change it to third person.  That's probably not the type of feedback you're looking for.  You might want to know if you've messed up and the narrator reveals details that they should have no way of knowing, but you're probably otherwise committed to sticking with first person.  So, being specific might help in getting the type of feedback that's going to be the most useful for you.

Similarly, someone that's a better writer in their head than on paper needs a different type of feedback than a skilled writer.  Like if I inexplicably stop.  Sentences in places that make no sense.  Whatsoever and start a new sentence in.  An improbable place.  I need a different sort.  Of feedback than someone who is able.  To string together coherent sentences.  Without breaking up in odd places.  And, yes, I have seen people.  Who write like that and if they asked.  Me to read something of theirs for feedback, I think I would be.  Like, um, no thank you.  But keep up the hard work.  Buddy!
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VanessaC

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2020, 01:58:06 AM »
Interesting discussion, and lots of great points made above.

Personally, I've found external viewpoints to be extremely helpful. However, this is tempered by the fact I didn't start asking for them until I was more confident in my own voice and writing - I avoided writers' groups completely when I was younger (and still do) because I didn't want someone squishing me with their opinions.

I was lucky enough that one of my first online experiences as a writer was a super-supportive self-editing course which had firm guidelines on how to give feedback - essentially, start with something positive, then give your critique (being positive!) and then end on a good note, too. It was really helpful.

That course also taught me the great mantra for dealing with feedback: accept, reject, or adapt.

Since I've been getting serious and publishing, I've used an external, paid, beta reader for almost all of my books. But, I got lucky - I found someone whose style works for me, and who is also very good at not interfering with my voice, and not telling me what to say - pointing out confusing bits, or gaps.

For me, books are essentially a form of communication, so I really like having someone outside my own head read through to make sure at least something is being communicated before the book gets set free on the world! 

 :icon_mrgreen:
     



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PJ Post

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 03:13:10 AM »
Some alternatives to one on one feedback (learning to write):

1. Read a ridiculous number of books in different genres.

2. Goodreads 1 star reviews of popular books. They're a goldmine of what not to do, which influences better methodology and attention to detail.

3. Youtube film critique and analysis channels. Most of what happens on screen translates perfectly to books, especially mechanics like pacing and transitions. At some fundamental level, stories are stories. Even discussions of camera lenses and cinematography can better shape our prose.

4. Watch lots of televisions shows, both episodic stuff and long format serials. Game of Thrones was a masterclass on how to do it right, which was mind-numbingly contrasted by Season 8 and how to do it all wrong.

5. Same for movies. Watch them over and over with an eye for structure and mechanics, especially the powerful scenes and how and why they work.

6. Read poetry and song lyrics, study the cadence with the music so you can get a sense of how rhythm works in prose. Sentence structure can be a very powerful tool in building emotion in the reader.

7. Immerse yourself into the writing world 24/7. Make it your life - not a hobby or a job. Hobbies are too hit or miss, and with a job, you go home after work. Real WritersTM are never truly off the clock. Find people you can discuss story with, that means books and film. Read about it, listen to Ted Talks, whatever. Be a sponge. You're developing your literary toolbox.

8. The point of all of this IS NOT to make a checklist. By writing regularly, and applying what you're learning, you'll get to a point that you just kind of know how to use the tools you've developed.

9. The journey of discovery, that is - our search for tools never ends. With every story we get better, we learn new tricks. I could not have written any of my books without having first written the one that came before it. I've improved whatever chops I have with every outing. I do believe it's important to write kind of a lot if you want to get good at it, though, just like a musician must practice their instrument.

10. We're going to fail along the way, and that's okay. Learn and do better next time. Hemingway said, "We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master." That's why we need that objective reader.

___

With all of that said, I still think that new writers should work with a developmental editor a few times early on. It comes down to not knowing what you don't know. A good editor, who understands what you're trying to do (this is essential), will advance and hone your abilities and voice faster than any other method. It's like working with a great coach, they tell you what's working and where you need more practice.

But as I said upthread, at some point, you know how stories work. The down side to all of this is every new show, film or book is probably going to become way more predictable. It's the downside of knowing how the sausage is made.

eta: Have patience. This is going to take a while.  Grin
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 03:22:49 AM by PJ Post »
 
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MaxDaemon

Re: All that feedback might be hurting your writing more than it's helping
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2020, 11:39:00 AM »
  Like if I inexplicably stop.  Sentences in places that make no sense.  Whatsoever and start a new sentence in.  An improbable place.  I need a different sort.  Of feedback than someone who is able.  To string together coherent sentences.  Without breaking up in odd places.  And, yes, I have seen people.  Who write like that and if they asked.  Me to read something of theirs for feedback, I think I would be.  Like, um, no thank you.  But keep up the hard work.  Buddy!

I nearly. Went. Insane? reading this!

Or maybe I did cross the line to insanity.

At any rate, nicely said.

My beta readers lately have never replied. Not even a comment. I'm not sure if I'm concerned for their health, or thankful they died.


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