Selling on your website 2024 (Lemon Squeezy, Payhip, Shopify etc)

[alhawke]

This is growing out of the "sustaining a writing career-2024" thread.

You guys have excited me over the prospect of using an outside vendor to help sell direct. Lemon Squeezy charges 50c per sale with 5% back. This isn't a bad loss for a $3.99 or above ebook. I'm wondering your thoughts? Payhip is far better in cost, but they don't take care of VAT and all those things (as far as I can tell). If you sell direct, what do you use? Gumroad, Payhip, Shopify, LemonSqueezy, StoryOrigin?  What's simplest to dip one's toes into this without starting a major overhaul (I don't want to repeat the work it took to get affiliate links active when it benefited me so little).

[Lorri Moulton]

Payhip says they do take care of VAT (they're in the UK), but they don't do anything for US state sales taxes. 

[alhawke]

I think this was my deterrent before. I believe the point of this article :
https://www.lemonsqueezy.com/blog/saas-sales-tax-usa
was to show how complicated US state tax system is. Operating in the US, I have a very large US reader market.

So... the advantage of Lemon Squeezy is that they operate as a company that can take care of this for you. I think??? They call themselves a "merchant of record".
Hence their additional $ .50 charge per purchase

So, Lorri, or any of you, how are writers selling in US states without using a merchant of record? via Payhip, etc?

[Post-Crisis D]

I haven't started selling books direct yet, but I do sell other goods.

For sales tax (U.S.), for sales within my state, I have to charge sales tax based on the destination of the shipped goods.  There are around 100 different sales tax districts you have to keep track of and then remit the sales tax payments to the state, identifying the taxes per sales tax district.

For product shipped out of state, then I need to keep watch on how many sales go to each state.  Each state has a different minimum before you have to start collecting and remitting sales taxes to them.  And, if I recall, some are based on a sum total while others are based on a per annum.

So, there's a lot.

And, at least for digital goods, that's what makes something like Lemon Squeezy attractive.  You don't have to worry about sales taxes and keeping track and collecting and remitting the appropriate sales tax per each sales tax district and all that.

So, I'm thinking, even if I sell a 99 cent book and only make 45 cents on it, not having to worry about sales tax is worth 55 cents.  Imagine if you sold hundreds or thousands of 99 cent books across the country and had to keep track of all those potential sales taxes.  I might see hundreds of dollars going out the door that could have been in my pocket but, on the other hand, it's probably worth those hundreds of dollars to not deal with the headache.

[alhawke]

 
44c per sale is still better profit than Amazon at the moment for 99c sale (which is 35c). Of course, more expensive books make far greater profit with a flat 50c charge.

Unless they change their charge?
Or they're not trustworthy as a business with their services?

If their trustworthy and their rates remain steady, it seems like a no brainer.
Problem with StoryOrigins, who provide this as part of their service now, is $100/yr is a big chunk of profit. Doing the math again, I'd have to sell nearly 200 books at 99c. But the math gets more complicated if I sell more expensive books. 
Advantage to StoryOrigins is, I think, they offer a sales page. But I have an active website.

[Post-Crisis D]

But I have an active website.

That's what makes it appealing to just go direct with Lemon Squeezy.  It sounds like StoryOrigin offers a lot of things but I'm not sure I need any of them.  Or, at least, I'm not sure they're worth (for me) paying $100 a year.

Previously, I had been looking at Paddle which also functions as the merchant of record.  But they are more geared toward software sales than digital goods like eBooks.  But, maybe Lemon Squeezy will give them a kick in the posterior and we can get some competition.  At any rate, you could use Lemon Squeezy now and keep Paddle in mind for a backup in case Lemon Squeezy ever goes haywire or whatever.  Or vice versa.

[Lorri Moulton]

I spent some time on Lemon Squeezy, and I can't figure out how to load an ebook cover.  All their images are wider than tall...and I don't want a little picture of a cell phone on a large background.

As for Story Origin, they have a nicer cover option...but I can't figure out the order in which to do this.  I have a message out to Evan.  He makes some very nice tutorial videos, but I can't seem to find enough info to make the direct sales link.

Also, Lemon Squeezy won't do a payout until we reach $50.  That's like Ream Stories if you have them manage the VAT and sales taxes.  I can see why on the one hand...but it is another deterrent.

I don't promote my store in paid ads, so I've just been sharing with my Facebook group until I resolve this tax situation.  They download the free books, then buy the rest of the series at retailers.

ETA:  Story Origin offers the $10 a month fee as does BookFunnel.  We save a little by paying the yearly fee, but it's not mandatory.

[alhawke]

Also, Lemon Squeezy won't do a payout until we reach $50.  That's like Ream Stories if you have them manage the VAT and sales taxes.  I can see why on the one hand...but it is another deterrent.

That's a big negative. I was planning on dabbling and I don't know when I'd reach the payout. I'm assuming that making this change is going to take time for me and readers.

Is Story Origin's payout also delayed and capped?

This reminds me of affiliate payouts (Amazon's affiliate payout is after $20)

[Post-Crisis D]

Way back when, didn't Amazon start with a $50 or $100 threshold before sending payment?

[Bill Hiatt]

So, I'm thinking, even if I sell a 99 cent book and only make 45 cents on it, not having to worry about sales tax is worth 55 cents.  Imagine if you sold hundreds or thousands of 99 cent books across the country and had to keep track of all those potential sales taxes.  I might see hundreds of dollars going out the door that could have been in my pocket but, on the other hand, it's probably worth those hundreds of dollars to not deal with the headache.

I'm a long way from selling direct at the moment, but it's certainly a consideration for the future. And I'm very headache averse, so I'd definitely pay for a service that handled all the tax stuff.

On the other hand, I certainly understand concerns about having to sell more books to get beyond the payment threshold or to pay for additional fees. That's definitely a consideration. For me, though, part of the issue is, how much is my time worth? Often when we compute the cost of something, we don't factor in the time we have to spend on it. That makes DIY solutions look less expensive than they really are. There is also the related concept economists call the opportunity cost. Basically, that's what you give up to spend time on something else. So if you're spending hours doing fiddly sales tax and VAT stuff, what else could you have been doing? Writing more? How much extra money would that generate that become lost revenue under a DIY solution?

By the way, Lemon Squeezy offer integrated email marketing. I don't know what it's like, and there is a charge, depending on list size, but it's free for small lists. Depending on what you pay now and whether or not the LS features meet your needs, that might be a cost savings involved. There is no illustration of specific emails features on the site, though.

[TimothyEllis]

Way back when, didn't Amazon start with a $50 or $100 threshold before sending payment?

That's on cheques or wire transfers.

EFT has no threshold.

It's $100 per store when you don't select EFT.

[Hopscotch]

Ah, but can website sales do this?:  “I wasn’t really sure what I was going to use it for, but I felt like with everyone grabbing, it made me want to get it, too…”  (From today’s New York Times re: the frenzy for Trader Joe’s new mini-tote bag)

[PJ Post]

Here's my question on this...once the mechanics and taxes and apps are worked out.

What is your overall distribution strategy? What is your messaging? Which attention channels are you using for the different audiences? How are you segmenting your audience?

I can not sell books on my own site just as easily as I can not sell them on Amazon.

To make this work, we need a methodology to drive traffic (our tribe) to our site. And that methodology cannot depend on already being famous or super successful.

How do we launch this idea from a dead stop?

[Post-Crisis D]

On the other hand, I certainly understand concerns about having to sell more books to get beyond the payment threshold or to pay for additional fees. That's definitely a consideration.

For me, the issue is whether they start charging dormancy fees after a certain period if you don't reach the threshold.  I haven't looked into that yet.

I have lost money that way because there were sites I've used in the past that handled payments and delivery (sales tax wasn't an issue back then) and they had a minimum payout.  Also, each product had to have a separate account and each account had to meet a minimum threshold for payment.  And, after a certain period, they started charging dormancy fees.  So, like one book (non-fiction) I spent like a year working on, I would have broken even, but I ended up with nothing because everything I had earned got sucked up by dormancy fees.  So, if a site has anything like that, I'd cross that off my list.

On the other hand, if the money stays there indefinitely until you reach the threshold, I can deal with that.  I mean, the goal is to sell books, so you should be pushing to reach that threshold.

[Lorri Moulton]

I have a message out to Lemon Squeezy.  Should hear back later today or tomorrow.  I think my mistake was signing up to Lemon Squeezy AND trying to use Story Origin.  The API hooks are in "test mode" so I can't connect them.

Anyway, I'll find out if I need to cancel Lemon Squeezy...or if they have a better (for me) cover option.  I'll let you know how it goes.

As for selling direct, the $50 cap is well worth it (again, for me) to NOT worry about the taxes.  They aren't charging me, they're just holding money...and if I can't sell $50 that's more on me than them.

Direct sales can absolutely work.  It depends on how we use it, how we promote it, and where.  This is moving into business strategy, so I'm going to pass on specifics, but anyone CAN launch a store.  It's up to each of us to decide if or when we should.

[Bill Hiatt]

Here's my question on this...once the mechanics and taxes and apps are worked out.

What is your overall distribution strategy? What is your messaging? Which attention channels are you using for the different audiences? How are you segmenting your audience?

I can not sell books on my own site just as easily as I can not sell them on Amazon.

To make this work, we need a methodology to drive traffic (our tribe) to our site. And that methodology cannot depend on already being famous or super successful.

How do we launch this idea from a dead stop?

The obvious way to make direct sales work is to increase website traffic, but that's easier said than done. It takes a lot of effort and works best for people who already have a pretty large fan base and/or who are experts in a particular field. I've seen sites with pretty strong content and negligible traffic.

This morning, I had a crazy idea. What if direct sales authors banded together? You'd need a free or inexpensive website, which would contain pages for all the books being directly sold. The design would be minimalist--blurb, cover. The cover links to the author's direct sale site. The virtue of this approach is that a site with lots of possibilities has more potential reach than a site that just sells one author's books. If you could draw people in, you'd have a lot more potential buyers, and someone coming specifically for a particular author might also end up buying the works of others.

But ultimately, it has the same problem as the the individual website--getting traffic there in the first place.

[Matthew]

This morning, I had a crazy idea. What if direct sales authors banded together? You'd need a free or inexpensive website, which would contain pages for all the books being directly sold. The design would be minimalist--blurb, cover. The cover links to the author's direct sale site. The virtue of this approach is that a site with lots of possibilities has more potential reach than a site that just sells one author's books. If you could draw people in, you'd have a lot more potential buyers, and someone coming specifically for a particular author might also end up buying the works of others.

Huh, so just a web directory of author sites? I personally don't think that would have much value with buyers. They'd want something more akin to Amazon where you get linked to a site, you buy from the site. And that would be quite an undertaking, though I don't think an indie web book store is a bad idea.

I'm interested in some of these new sites. I'm tired of the monthly/yearly fees. The last time I tried to sell direct I was using Wordpress with a paid shop plugin, but my sales couldn't justify the expense -- because the payment processors also had their fees on top of the plugin license.

I think direct sales will for the foreseeable future remain a small proportion, but the key is not only marketing, but adding incentives to buy direct. That can be lower price (if possible, given e.g. Amazon's anti-competitive b.s.), bundles, value-add like artwork / short stories etc. (similar to reader magnets), or in the case of print signed copies. For digital, it's important to just offer every format under the sun included with a purchase. IME few people will buy direct from you out of the goodness of their own hearts because it puts more money in your pocket, but a few will.

[Post-Crisis D]

Huh, so just a web directory of author sites? I personally don't think that would have much value with buyers. They'd want something more akin to Amazon where you get linked to a site, you buy from the site. And that would be quite an undertaking, though I don't think an indie web book store is a bad idea.

FWIW, Lemon Squeezy (and Paddle) have affiliate programs.  So, someone could build a directory of authors' books and then get a commission for sales.

What would really help is if a service like Lemon Squeezy had a universal shopping cart.  So, say that I go to Lorri's site and put a book in my cart and then go to Bill's site and put a book in my cart then go pay for both.  As a buyer, I'd go through one checkout process and Lorri would get her money and Bill would get his.  And, if I found the books through a directory Timothy had built (say ReaderSanctum.com), then he'd get his affiliate cut.

Now, that would be something.  And, since sites like Paddle and Lemon Squeezy are the merchant of record, I would think that such a thing would be technically feasible to do.

[Post-Crisis D]

Another thing a universal shopping cart would be good for would be unofficial partnerships.  That is, I think we all know that actual legal partnerships can be problematic.  Let's say that Jill and Jane share a similar audience.  They want to work together but not have a formal partnership.  With a universal shopping cart, they could do something like this:

Jill and Jane each have their own websites.  Jill offers Jane's books on her site as an affiliate.  Jane offers Jill's books on her site as an affiliate.  If you go to either site, you could buy one of each author's books.  Each gets their full payment on their own book and whoever's site the purchase was made on gets a commission on the other's book.

Or, let's say Jane doesn't want her own website.  Jill could offer Jane's books on her site.  Jane gets paid for each book sold and Jill, as an affiliate, gets a commission for each of Jane's books sold.  Jill could also offer other authors' books on her site for an affiliate commission.

Or, you could have any kind of mix of methods.  In any case, there is no formal partnership required because the money is being paid out by the merchant of record (Lemon Squeezy, Paddle, whoever).  So, Jill never touches Jane's money and Jane never touches Jill's money.  And there is no legal relationship (that I know of) required between Jill and Jane.  The affiliate agreement would be between the website owner and the merchant of record, not between Jill and Jane.

So, this would allow a way of authors working together without having to form any legal partnerships because the only legal business relationships would be between the authors individually and the merchant of record.

And, in the case of messy incidents, clean up is easier because there are no partnerships.  For example, if Jane runs off and murders her husband and feeds the meat to her kids, Jill probably isn't going to want to promote Jane's books anymore.  With a legal partnership between the two, that may require lawyers and stuff.  Hopefully, there would be a dissolution clause to cover stuff like that in a partnership agreement but that's assuming they had one.  But, in our example, since there is no partnership, Jill can take down Jane's books at any time after hearing about the cannibal murder.  And that makes things relatively easy and less messy than a legal entanglement.

Of course, that's not to say that Jane might not sue Jill anyway, but Jane would probably have less of a case when there was no legal partnership and Jill was listing her books as an affiliate.  Plus, you know, the merchant of record might pull the books first, which takes any heat off of Jill entirely.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and also haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn recently.

[alhawke]

For me, though, part of the issue is, how much is my time worth? Often when we compute the cost of something, we don't factor in the time we have to spend on it.

This is a huge consideration for me. But the way I'm looking at this, it's not going to take much time at all to set up links on my website and refer readers to Lemon Squeezy (don't really like the name, btw).

I have a message out to Lemon Squeezy.  Should hear back later today or tomorrow.  I think my mistake was signing up to Lemon Squeezy AND trying to use Story Origin. 

Please let us know which one you go with. Sounds like these two are the only ones that take care of the state-by-state US headache: Lemon Squeezy with their service, and StoryOrigin, defecto, by using their service.

[Lorri Moulton]

If Lemon Squeezy will let me load a book cover-sized image, I'd probably go direct.  Story Origin has a lot of nice features, but I don't use most of them.

ETA: There are some selling direct BF promos, but not that many.  I've run a few, and it seems to be gaining a bit of traction.  If readers end up buying from retailers, the promos still helps with visibility...and selling direct means we get the email addresses even when they download free ebooks.

Discounted bundles seem to be the favorite right now.  I haven't done them, but that's what I see in a lot of Facebook ads.

[alhawke]

ETA: There are some selling direct BF promos, but not that many.  I've run a few, and it seems to be gaining a bit of traction. 

But BF always has that "direct link" option. You could just use that on all sales Bookfunnel promos , right?

[idontknowyet]

Take this with a grain of salt since i'm not doing it personally.

But all the authors i see selling on their own stores and doing really well are combining wide with tiktok and shopify.

They aren't all making money, but most with well written books and a moderate following starting out are doing at least 4-5 figures a month.
They aren't worrying about single books. Those are just add ons. Most are selling bundles.

I am determined to try this eventually but i dont have the mental space at the moment to give it a real go.

[Bill Hiatt]

Huh, so just a web directory of author sites? I personally don't think that would have much value with buyers. They'd want something more akin to Amazon where you get linked to a site, you buy from the site. And that would be quite an undertaking, though I don't think an indie web book store is a bad idea.

FWIW, Lemon Squeezy (and Paddle) have affiliate programs.  So, someone could build a directory of authors' books and then get a commission for sales.

What would really help is if a service like Lemon Squeezy had a universal shopping cart.  So, say that I go to Lorri's site and put a book in my cart and then go to Bill's site and put a book in my cart then go pay for both.  As a buyer, I'd go through one checkout process and Lorri would get her money and Bill would get his.  And, if I found the books through a directory Timothy had built (say ReaderSanctum.com), then he'd get his affiliate cut.

Now, that would be something.  And, since sites like Paddle and Lemon Squeezy are the merchant of record, I would think that such a thing would be technically feasible to do.

Ah, that's the piece I was missing. IF LS offers affiliate commissions, it could be worth someone's time to create and run such a site and worth authors' time to add their books to it. Authors still in KDP Select could also participate by adding LS affiliate links to their sites, making a little money and promoting sales for their wide colleagues. Or they could just link to the mega site (no money there, but a nice gesture).

It's also possible (but more complicated) to allow KDP Select authors onto the website through the use of Amazon affiliate links. Customers lose the convenience of one shopping cart but have access to an even bigger number of authors. If nothing else, this would attract customers who might have a beef with Amazon, maybe even people who are looking for books but not toasters.

Such a site would be a slow build, but it could be done.

I wonder how easily that universal cart could be implemented? That would offer a number of other possibilities, just as you suggest.

As Lorri points out, bundles are a thing, and potentially a lucrative one. Of course, we can do single-author box sets right now. Multi-author box sets require a lot more paperwork, though if I recall correctly, there is at least one company that will take care of that for you. Readers hungry for that kind of discount are a reasonably large market. Bundles unavailable elsewhere might also be a selling point for the site we're talking about.

[Post-Crisis D]

IF LS offers affiliate commissions, it could be worth someone's time to create and run such a site and worth authors' time to add their books to it.

Can I suggest we use LSq instead of LS when shortening Lemon Squeezy?

My first thought on seeing LS was when did Lightning Source enter the picture here?

[Bill Hiatt]

Oh, sorry. I'd forgotten about Lightning Source.

[Post-Crisis D]

Oh, sorry. I'd forgotten about Lightning Source.

No worries.

I also think people have a tendency to over-abbreviate these days.

Or should I say,

IAT ppl hv a 10denC 2 ovr-abbrev ths days

[Lorri Moulton]

I am the first to admit...this is over my head tech-wise.

Story Origin has a link to Lemon Squeezy (without enough explanation for me), and Lemon Squeezy says to talk to Story Origin.

While someone else may be able to easily figure this out, it won't be me. I'm staying with Payhip for now. 

If anyone else wants to look into it, please let us know what you think.  I tend to back away when two entities are involved and they each tell me to ask the other one.

Eventually, I think we will see more Merchant of Record options emerging.  Maybe even with Payhip.  They already deal with VAT, so one can hope. 

[Jeff Tanyard]

Oh, sorry. I'd forgotten about Lightning Source.

No worries.

I also think people have a tendency to over-abbreviate these days.

Or should I say,

IAT ppl hv a 10denC 2 ovr-abbrev ths days

[RBC]

This morning, I had a crazy idea. What if direct sales authors banded together? You'd need a free or inexpensive website, which would contain pages for all the books being directly sold. The design would be minimalist--blurb, cover. The cover links to the author's direct sale site. The virtue of this approach is that a site with lots of possibilities has more potential reach than a site that just sells one author's books. If you could draw people in, you'd have a lot more potential buyers, and someone coming specifically for a particular author might also end up buying the works of others.

But ultimately, it has the same problem as the the individual website--getting traffic there in the first place.

Nothing crazy. Just hard still. Even if 100 band together, there will be someone taking on the majority of the load and doing most of the work which will be unfair and that person will lose motivation. It's never a fair distribution of work and there are always freeloaders who don't do their part.

A smaller 'syndicate' of like 5-10 authors in one genre could launch a nice website, part shop part review part recommendation site. Like a clubhouse for certain genre fans. That does sound cool, but it's a 1-2 year project.

[TimothyEllis]

This morning, I had a crazy idea. What if direct sales authors banded together? You'd need a free or inexpensive website, which would contain pages for all the books being directly sold. The design would be minimalist--blurb, cover. The cover links to the author's direct sale site. The virtue of this approach is that a site with lots of possibilities has more potential reach than a site that just sells one author's books. If you could draw people in, you'd have a lot more potential buyers, and someone coming specifically for a particular author might also end up buying the works of others.

But ultimately, it has the same problem as the the individual website--getting traffic there in the first place.

Nothing crazy. Just hard still. Even if 100 band together, there will be someone taking on the majority of the load and doing most of the work which will be unfair and that person will lose motivation. It's never a fair distribution of work and there are always freeloaders who don't do their part.

A smaller 'syndicate' of like 5-10 authors in one genre could launch a nice website, part shop part review part recommendation site. Like a clubhouse for certain genre fans. That does sound cool, but it's a 1-2 year project.

I have ReaderSanctum parked, and it was supposed to be for a reader discussion and sales site to parallel here.

I'm still interested in doing something like that, but it needs someone to look at software and I've not been motivated.

Just saying. I can host something like that, but not do all the work for it.

[RBC]

I got rockingreads.com where I wanted to do an App for book recommendations kinda like Bookbub but different. Ton of work to start it, so I understand. Running forum alone is plenty.

[Anarchist]

A smaller 'syndicate' of like 5-10 authors in one genre could launch a nice website, part shop part review part recommendation site. Like a clubhouse for certain genre fans. That does sound cool, but it's a 1-2 year project.

This is similar to what Wayne is doing with tropicalauthors.com.

[RBC]

A smaller 'syndicate' of like 5-10 authors in one genre could launch a nice website, part shop part review part recommendation site. Like a clubhouse for certain genre fans. That does sound cool, but it's a 1-2 year project.

This is similar to what Wayne is doing with tropicalauthors.com.

That's nicely done! Nice website, clear value proposition, nice covers, known names. Hope they're doing well. Nice collab and probably should bring at least some nice sales for initial boost. Can see a bunch of these sub-genre sites doing well. Even a list of like 3000 readers should be nice enough boost for book sales.

[Bill Hiatt]

With regard to running a site as a sort of indie store, yeah, it's going to be hard to get the work done, which I suspect is one reason it hasn't happened more.

If as I originally suggested, the site basically linked to websites of authors selling direct, the problem would be more acute. But what if the site becomes the direct sales hub itself, with the site owner getting the LSq affiliate fees (and if linking to Amazon for KU authors were allowed, the Amazon affiliate fees)? That would be some compensation. Would it be enough? It's hard to know in advance.

Of course, organizing for a smaller group of authors, as RBG has suggested, would certainly be easier. But it might also bring less traffic. The site Anarchist mentioned looks really nice and gets 133 views per month. No, scratch that. The free checker I was using is somehow inaccurate. It shows my website getting fewer visits in a month that it sometimes gets in a day. I've tried several other supposedly free tools, only to have them demand I open an account or start my free trial. Sigh. I guess it's not so easy to get accurate figures.

[RBC]

With regard to running a site as a sort of indie store, yeah, it's going to be hard to get the work done, which I suspect is one reason it hasn't happened more.

If as I originally suggested, the site basically linked to websites of authors selling direct, the problem would be more acute. But what if the site becomes the direct sales hub itself, with the site owner getting the LSq affiliate fees (and if linking to Amazon for KU authors were allowed, the Amazon affiliate fees)? That would be some compensation. Would it be enough? It's hard to know in advance.

Of course, organizing for a smaller group of authors, as RBG has suggested, would certainly be easier. But it might also bring less traffic. The site Anarchist mentioned looks really nice and gets 133 views per month. No, scratch that. The free checker I was using is somehow inaccurate. It shows my website getting fewer visits in a month that it sometimes gets in a day. I've tried several other supposedly free tools, only to have them demand I open an account or start my free trial. Sigh. I guess it's not so easy to get accurate figures.

Not a single tracker shows accurate website sadly. Even paid ones. I'm sure they have more views tho. Would be very little. That said they don't have a blog to get Google traffic to it from relevant keywords.

Even small group site can have traffic come from Google, in big droves, or social media if posts are interesting. Controversial posts in the genre could easily drive traffic from soc.media, list posts from Pinterest etc. BookBub.com blog is good example of content needed to get visitors.

Also, there are some old sites that get closed down, domains can be bought and some people can visit coming like that. Not much, but could help anyway, as long as it's relevant genre.

Affilaite income would be a start, but it would pay hosting bill most likely only, esp. first year. Some future bills could be paid with newsletter ads, think Bookbub, no reason it can't grow into it. But it's always first two years that is hard :D

[writeway]

Hope it works out for you! I've had a Payhip store since probably 2015. It's a massive waste of time for me. Readers weren't interested in the store. I probably sold three books in all those years. I still have the store but don't push it. Just be ready for a lot of pushback from readers who don't wanna buy outside of retailers. I can't blame them because it's so convenient to quickly download from your favorite store. I advise selling exclusive products like box sets or books not available anywhere else. That might make readers a little more interested, but just selling your books that are available everywhere anyway is no incentive for the readers to buy from you. You wanna at least offer something they can't get anywhere else. And be prepared to promote your butt off and have low expectations.

[Lorri Moulton]

I just read a post on Facebook saying much the same thing.  For me, the store is also a way for readers to find my books (without distraction) and download a free one.  Whether they buy another book from me or a retailer, the store is helping me sell books. 

For me, there's also the visual advantage of having an entire store to play with as well as my site.  I like pretty covers, and my store is pretty. LOL  Not probably what everyone is looking for...but substitute mysterious or fantastical, and it does the same thing.

Having a store front can lead to sales whether readers buy from the store or the retailers. To sell exclusively from the store, I agree, special editions and merchandise would be a better draw.

[Bill Hiatt]

Personally, I'm a sucker for beautiful stores. If one's only purpose would be to have another discovery point, that might do some good.

An attached blog could be a way to drive traffic, though again, it's those early days that are killers, inasmuch as there won't be an audience to start with.

Meanwhile in Substack land, I got myself a fifth subscriber. He's a fantasy writer who seems to have a whole series that's available only on Substack. (At least, it's not being sold on Amazon. The first book is available to free subscribers, but the second through sixth are available only to paid subscribers. As time goes by, I'll ask him how that's going. It seems a risky business model (please, no Tom Cruise jokes), but I have heard of other people publishing on Substack.)

There's a lot of good information, but much to my surprise, I've discovered that there are also a fair number of people who know less than I do. I've been pubbing for more than thirteen years, so I guess that shouldn't be a big shock. Anyway, that enables me to contribute effectively on Notes, where I've been liked, commented upon, and even restacked. Some of my comments got reactions that told me they could be expanded into future posts.

While waiting for my current book to come back from the editor, I'm working on a short story for one of Substacks' more popular contests (for dark fantasy and horror). I also have a thought for a fantasy and science fiction competition. We will see how much those grow exposure, if at all.

One thing I've discovered. In the beginning at least, a Substack seems to get views only following a post. Traffic may increase if I can get a little more visibility.

[Lorri Moulton]

A little more info on Story Origin and Lemon Squeezy, but this may take a few days to set up, so I'll let you know how it goes. 

I like Payhip, but they got back to me saying they have no plans to set up a Merchant of Record, which is understandable since they're a fairly small company. 

If this works, it could still be a HUGE help to authors.  Tax issues are not something many of us want to deal with...and state sales tax is complicated!  I would love to have someone else take care of this. 

[Bill Hiatt]

Yes, sales tax is hell on earth. VAT rates vary from country to country, but sales tax rates can vary even within states because some allow for counties and/or cities to levy sales taxes as well.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the Story Origin/Lemon Squeezy combo. It does indeed sound like a good idea.

[Lorri Moulton]

Part 1

Set up the Lemon Squeezy account, got approved, loaded all my ebooks, filled in financial/tax info, I think it's finished (for now).  Be sure to choose EBOOK over digital product, since they have a separate category for ebooks.

Now, on to Part 2...Story Origin.  I don't have any books listed there, so this may take a little while.  I'll be back with future updates. 

[Post-Crisis D]

Be sure to choose EBOOK over digital product, since they have a separate category for ebooks.

 

Good to know.

Now, do you get a better deal with Lemon Squeezy if you also use Story Origin?  Or, is the amount Lemon Squeezy takes the same either way?

[Lorri Moulton]

Better deal with Story Origin (30c or 35c vs. 50c per item) and they have VERTICAL cover images. 

[Post-Crisis D]

Better deal with Story Origin (30c or 35c vs. 50c per item) and they have VERTICAL cover images. 

If the savings is 15¢ per item, then you need to be selling over 667 books per year or 67 books per month to benefit because of StoryOrigin's $100/year or $10/month cost.

Just something for small sellers to bear in mind.

[alhawke]

Better deal with Story Origin (30c or 35c vs. 50c per item) and they have VERTICAL cover images. 

Can you send us a link to your book page or an image? I would love to see it.

If the savings is 15¢ per item, then you need to be selling over 667 books per year ...

Well, few of us are going to hit 667 books, unless this becomes the main source of income. Selling one's own books is an extra supplement sales source. I doubt it will ever be primary for me. So, pretty doubtful I'll be selling >667 books this way.

Don't know... still dragging my feet. But I'm getting closer than ever before with moving on this with the tax burden removed. My other concern is that if you go straight with Lemon Squeezy they could change their rates. This is a pretty recent roll out.

I think if you're with StoryOrigin already, why not? Problem is, I'm committed with BookFunnel and I don't want to double my annual rates right now. If I go with Lemon Squeezy, I'd probably go direct.

[Lorri Moulton]

StoryOrigin does much the same as BookFunnel from what I can tell.  If so, I'd probably drop BF and use SO, so the $10 a month is a wash.  Or keep both and do a LOT of promo swaps this summer! LOL

Having someone else help readers with loading their ebooks is well worth it to me, so I doubt I'd go direct with Lemon Squeezy...and those horizontal covers will not work for me.

StoryOrigin has a much nicer website option AND for anyone not selling everything direct, they also have the retailer buttons for all the major players.  That's a nice extra.

I'd recommend watching the video to see what Evan is offering vs. Lemon Squeezy direct.  Here's the link.

https://storyoriginapp.com/tutorials/build-your-author-website

ETA:  Here's the Lemon Squeezy images.  I could put a cell phone and a tiny cover image I guess, but that's even smaller.  A LS rep did say that a vertical image might be something they could add in the future...but who knows when that might happen?

[Lorri Moulton]

I don't know how to show this without looking like self-promo, so I'll just post a link to my free ebook.  This is what it looks like if I click on the book at the top of the store (which is not done yet), but I do like the way it displays the retailers. 

And...it's supposed to send everyone to the correct Amazon for their part of the world.  So if anyone is not in the US, would you like to check and let us know if it works?  Thank you!

I'll be back with a store link when I figure that part out. 

https://www.stories.lavendercottagebooks.com/freerose

[alhawke]

Thanks, Lorri, for all your input! Your covers look beautiful, btw.

Okay, I'm fiddling with Lemon Squeezy now too. I sent them a request for approval of a store. I figured it's free to try anyway.

I think there's no question StoryOrigin's format looks great. If I didn't have a website already, I'd be utilizing their features. For new authors, it really does help integrate everything. But, I still love Bookfunnel for gifting books, running promos, etc., and I'm not sold on abandoning it.

All I'm looking for here is a direct link button from my website to Lemonsqueezy's purchase store. I think I can get this after I'm approved by them, but I'm unsure. If I can direct link books, the look of the cover is not important. Am I making sense? I don't care to direct readers to a "store", I just want readers to see books on my site and then click for a direct sale. I assume LemonSqueezy has this option?

It also has the option of incorporating tax in the sale. This is an interesting additional problem. If LemonSqueezy takes .5% of all sales plus $.50 AND plus tax, is it going to be more affordable than just selling on Amazon? Because a buyer on Amazon has tax included on ebook sales price, right? I'm not sure how much sales tax adds up here.

Final concern. What about piracy? I think, unless you click dmarc, there's nothing magical about downloading ebooks on retailers for protection. Or is there? Am I risking greater instances of piracy by selling direct? Should I care?

[Lorri Moulton]

Thank you!  Those are all good questions.  I believe Lemon Squeezy has the option of a checkout overlay for existing sites...and plug ins if you have Wordpress .org or maybe a few others?  I have Wordpress .com, so I didn't read much about that.

I'll keep BookFunnel as long as I'm doing Kickstarter campaigns since they're WONDERFUL for sending ebooks to everyone at once.  Worth the $10 right there! 

ETA:  There might also be a way to connect BookFunnel for delivery to your store and still use Lemon Squeezy.  I didn't check that since I knew LS wouldn't work as well with my website.

[alhawke]

Okay. This was easy, too easy, to set up. I'm gonna show you all a screenshot of what I can show readers.

To answer my own tax questions, I think tax loss from revenue is still minimal. And if I get, even a few sales, for boxed sets we're looking at $9 profit instead of $7 for a boxed set. Audiobooks are a ridiculous difference and advantage.

As far as security, let me know your thoughts.

Pretty exciting. And amazingly easy to set up. For those of you who sell wide, or have books outside KU, this was probably easier for me to set up than a new retailer, folks (like when I moved my books to Eden books and Drivethrufiction).

{edit: deleted link; basically, book cover is reduced in size, as Lorri mentioned above ^; it would be nice to have a vertical final image on sale slip

[Bill Hiatt]

If I were in a position to sell direct, the one thing that would keep me from dropping BF in favor of SO is that BF has a lot wider choice of promos and in my experience performs better. I did some SO promos that literally didn't move the needle at all. That said, I tested years ago. Maybe SO has a larger author base now and hence better promo performance?

If SO promos were doing better, I'd go with the SO-LSq combo for sure. That way, you could count the $100 fee as a promotional expense and look at the ease and lesser expense of selling direct as gravy. If they do work well, these promos will do enough for sales (and newsletter signups, if you want to do those) to make the $100 well worth it.

I poked around a little on Story Origin's website. They offer some promo types I can't recall BF doing, like audiobooks. There are a lot more promos than in the old days, which is good. The ones I checked had a relatively small number of authors involved, however, which may reduce the impact of the promos. Perhaps someone who currently uses SO could shed some light on how effective the promos are today.

Like BF, SO has a lot of features. SO is somewhat more feature rich, with a program that appears to help aggregate feedback from beta readers, though I've never tried that. Then there's a lot of things to do with reviewers if you give away review copies, like verifying profiles and analyzing completion rates. SO also now advertises a website builder. Though I'm pretty sure it's basic, it might be enough for a lot of new authors.

[alhawke]

SO also now advertises a website builder. Though I'm pretty sure it's basic, it might be enough for a lot of new authors.

I think the Story Origin website builder is pretty impressive (^can check it out per Lorri's link). If I was setting up as a new author, StoryOrigins would be huge in my consideration. Problem is, I'm already set up. And I love Bookfunnel's features too much. I agree regarding promos being better with Bookfunnel. This could change if more authors sign up to StoryOrigin.

Update: I haven't plunged in yet with LemonSqueezy. I've waited this long for selling direct, I don't see why waiting a bit longer is a problem. I rather not be the guinea pig first starting this new service. My preference is to see if it will prosper.

I contacted Bookfunnel to see if they're willing to merge software with LemonSqueezy; currently they have this feature for Payhip and Spotify. I'll let you know if they plan on doing this. If they do, I'm in.

[Post-Crisis D]

So, if the problem with going direct through Lemon Squeezy is that their images are wide rather than tall, why not use a 3D representation of the book?



You could also add whatever background too.

The image is just what shows on Lemon Squeezy's website or checkout page or whatever, right?  So you can still present the book however you want on your own website.  And the image on Lemon Squeezy just serves to remind buyers what they're getting, is that right?

[Lorri Moulton]

Dan, that's a possibility...but it looks like I'm selling a paperback. 

I think/hope LS may get a new cover image in the future.  Downside, I tried it out and they just send the links...no help for confused readers except my email.  I'm going to wait and see if they link to the BookFunnel library in the near future.

For me, there are 3 major roadblocks.

1. I don't have a plug in for my site, so I'd have to figure out that extra step.

2. The covers aren't a good fit for my store.

3. No access to the BookFunnel library. I've spent the past year getting my readers used to BookFunnel (and I use them for all my Kickstarter campaigns) so changing now seems like a bad idea.

What I do like....

Story Origin has some nice universal links.  If I used the Beta options and other features, I'd probably be staying.

Lemon Squeezy takes care of taxes!! Still like this (a lot) so I'm going to keep my account for now and see if they have some changes in the near future.

For now, I'm staying with Payhip.  I'm not selling enough to make tax issues a major concern...yet.  And I really like that format. 
If/when I find a way (that makes me happy) to integrate Lemon Squeezy, I will let you know. 

[alhawke]

Bookfunnel got back to me. They're keeping it a consideration, but there's no news of them integrating Lemon Squeezy yet. They're integrated with many other sellers so, hope is, either they pair up with Lemon Squeeze too, or the other services work on the tax issue. I mean, I'd think this could be solved better universally?

[Post-Crisis D]

Dan, that's a possibility...but it looks like I'm selling a paperback.

That's just one example.  It could be anything.  You could have a tall rectangular book cover image centered over a background of lavender flowers.  I'm just saying the image issue isn't a major problem.  With a plain tall rectangle of the book's cover, how do they know they are getting an eBook?  Maybe they are getting an ePoster?

I believe that readers generally aren't dumb.  I mean, Amazon shows the same cover image for a paperback as they do for an eBook.  So, how do readers know they are getting a paperback when the image doesn't show one?  Because they select eBook or paperback.  Same would apply here.  If you show a representation of a paperback, but they choose to buy an eBook, I think they know what they are getting.

Regardless, on your own site, you can have whatever image you like to represent your eBook and make it as large or as small as you want.  Then, you have links where they can buy on Amazon, Kobo, etc. or direct.  If they click a link, and end up going to Lemon Squeezy's buy page, they already know what they are getting, so the image only need be a quick visual reminder of what they are getting.  If it's smaller than what's on your site, so what?  It just needs to be large enough to represent the book and match what they saw on your site so they know they are getting the right book.

I can see where your #1 and #3 can be major roadblocks for you, but I still see #2 as a minor issue that can be worked around.

[RBC]

Dan, that's a possibility...but it looks like I'm selling a paperback.

That's just one example.  It could be anything.  You could have a tall rectangular book cover image centered over a background of lavender flowers.  I'm just saying the image issue isn't a major problem.  With a plain tall rectangle of the book's cover, how do they know they are getting an eBook?  Maybe they are getting an ePoster?

I believe that readers generally aren't dumb.  I mean, Amazon shows the same cover image for a paperback as they do for an eBook.  So, how do readers know they are getting a paperback when the image doesn't show one?  Because they select eBook or paperback.  Same would apply here.  If you show a representation of a paperback, but they choose to buy an eBook, I think they know what they are getting.

Regardless, on your own site, you can have whatever image you like to represent your eBook and make it as large or as small as you want.  Then, you have links where they can buy on Amazon, Kobo, etc. or direct.  If they click a link, and end up going to Lemon Squeezy's buy page, they already know what they are getting, so the image only need be a quick visual reminder of what they are getting.  If it's smaller than what's on your site, so what?  It just needs to be large enough to represent the book and match what they saw on your site so they know they are getting the right book.

I can see where your #1 and #3 can be major roadblocks for you, but I still see #2 as a minor issue that can be worked around.

+1

You can overcome the issue with just using proper size image and think of it as a banner. Or Instagram post. The posts are square, but that don't prevent authors from having awesome images showing off covers. Not a hard issue to overcome.

[LilyBLily]

Doesn't Book Brush help you position book covers into phone or Kindle images for ads? So it would be obvious it's an ebook? Of course you'd have to pay Book Brush.

[Lorri Moulton]

One other link I wanted to post includes the items NOT available with LemonSqueezy...yet.  Like a cart for checkout.  They hope to add them in the next 2 to 3 months.

https://www.lemonsqueezy.com/roadmap

[alhawke]

You can work with Book Brush or Canva to reposition your cover, BUT it'll take some trial and error. The software takes your graphics and loads it with a rectangular dimension. You'd have to spend some time determining how to take a vertical image and center it so that it fits in a nice way. I envision using a color background with a vertical cover.

It'd be far better if they just provide a vertical image option for their store.

(Incidentally, the same problem happens with some of the defaults with A+ content on Amazon and I've adapted them. It'd be nice if the programmers allowed a simple point and click download).

[RBC]

Doesn't Book Brush help you position book covers into phone or Kindle images for ads? So it would be obvious it's an ebook? Of course you'd have to pay Book Brush.

Free Canva account should do the job. You can just add a transparent background cover PNG on one of their templates of right format/size and tweak as wanted.

[Lorri Moulton]

It's not that difficult to put an image on a color background (did that on Shopify) but the cover is SMALLER and the background image takes up a lot of the space. Not a fan.

So, I thought about it and realized I don't know enough about Story Origin to make an informed decision.  I'm going to watch all the tutorials this weekend, and start from the basics.  If I like it, I'll keep the subscription for a while.  BookFunnel is great for bulk delivery and their library...but the sales promos haven't done much for me lately.

I don't think I'll be selling tons of ebooks direct in the next few months (one can hope! LOL) but the reality is I'm not paying for Facebook ads, so I get a few downloads a day. This gives me time to look into all this more carefully and see if I find a solution that makes me happy.  Because...



Couldn't resist...courtesy of Pinterest.

[RBC]

It's not that difficult to put an image on a color background (did that on Shopify) but the cover is SMALLER and the background image takes up a lot of the space. Not a fan.

So, I thought about it and realized I don't know enough about Story Origin to make an informed decision.  I'm going to watch all the tutorials this weekend, and start from the basics.  If I like it, I'll keep the subscription for a while.  BookFunnel is great for bulk delivery and their library...but the sales promos haven't done much for me lately.

I don't think I'll be selling tons of ebooks direct in the next few months (one can hope! LOL) but the reality is I'm not paying for Facebook ads, so I get a few downloads a day. This gives me time to look into all this more carefully and see if I find a solution that makes me happy.  Because...



Couldn't resist...courtesy of Pinterest.

If you could post a screenshot of how it currently looks, might be able to think off of something.

[Lorri Moulton]

The obvious answer is to use Story Origin and have a vertical image. 

It's 30c rather than 50c for download costs from Lemon Squeezy.  One thing that interests me (after watching the SO tutorials) is we can have direct sales books AND KU books on our store page.  That's not something I've found with Shopify or Payhip (not that it doesn't exist...I just didn't find an option).

I might put one series into KU for the summer, so this is intriguing.

[alhawke]

It's beautiful Lorri.
Hmmm... Certainly is tempting. I'd think you could connect this page with Google ads 

Are you going to link this Story Origin page with the website you've already set up?

[alhawke]

Yes, looking at the functionality, you should be able to link the web page to Google ads.  AND you could set up individual links for each book--again, by simply linking the book URL. It be nice if D2D moved to universal links including a direct link button (like Bookfunnel with landing pages).

...And I really like that authors have to APPROVE who enters the promos. 

If you run a Bookfunnel promo, like I'm doing this week, you can remove books there too. I always have to do this for a few books that don't meet guidelines. It is something I absolutely loathe doing (which is why some organizers probably don't do it), but I'm caught between authors who sign up accepting a particular type of promo (genre, heat level) while balancing new submissions that don't fit.

Maybe you're saying Story Origins organizers have to approve first? That might be a better set up than removing.

[alhawke]

Okay, got one another big concern with direct sales:
Bookmarking to prevent pirating.

If you sell with Bookfunnel, you can bookmark ebooks. I don't believe StoryOrgins has this function. I don't know. And what of pirating audiobook concerns, the biggest item I'm considering selling to profit with direct sales.

When I send ARC copies, I do this.

The idea is to bookmark files to prevent pirating. Now we've been through the pirating thing a zillion times on writing forums. I get the argument is a free book isn't a huge issue and you can always ask for a takedown. But if you're selling a lot of these books, does it become more of a concern? And is there even any security on other retailer sites like Amazon anyway if you don't click dmarc? I never choose dmarc.

I'm not sure about this pirating issue in regards to direct sales.

[Lorri Moulton]

Exactly!  I always have a couple of "last minute" sign ups with erotic romance in the G-rated promos. 

[Lorri Moulton]

I know some authors on Payhip won't allow Payhip downloads and only give out BF so they can be stamped.

Pirating is a pain, but all my books were pirated BEFORE I had a store.  When they were on Amazon. LOL  So I doubt it makes much difference. I put PDFs on all my book files, so readers in other countries (or those without e-readers) can easily access them.

I'd rather have a happy reader than worry about pirating.  That's going to happen.  They pirated my railroad book. Seriously?  If they'll take that, they'll take anything.  So I decided to ignore them and focus on my readers.

[Bill Hiatt]

And is there even any security on other retailer sites like Amazon anyway if you don't click dmarc? I never choose dmarc.

I think you mean DRM. DMARC is the email thing. But after a while, the acronyms do begin to run together.

I don't know if this is still true, but I remember seeing a study a few years back that indicated that books without DRM sold better than books that had it. There may be confounding variables, however, like the higher priced trad ebooks being more likely to have DRM, though if I remember correctly, the study got the same result at different price points.

I've also heard that DRM is easy to crack, though not being a hacker, I can't confirm that from personal experience.

Bookmarking is a good idea, though.

And I really like that authors have to APPROVE who enters the promos.  I'm so tired of the wrong genres putting their books in BF promos.

Getting books with the wrong genres is certainly an issue for promo sponsors, but the SO approach can be difficult for promo users if the sponsor doesn't check the sign-ups and do approvals every day. More than once, I got in a bind because I'd signed up several days in advance but hadn't been processed yet. I think some people wait until the day before the promo to approve the sign-ups, but I usually sent out my newsletter on the day the promo went live and didn't really want to wait until the last minute to put it together. I ended up having to cancel my sign-up because I didn't have a link to put in the newsletter. Grrr.... In one case, the sponsor emailed me ten minutes before my newsletter was scheduled to go out to tell me he'd approved me. Sigh!

Admittedly, though, the BF thing made me crazy, too. I've only done about four so far, and all of them had at least some people whose books didn't seem to fit. Trying to be nice, I emailed to ask them if they could explain the connection between their book and the genre and theme of the promo. Not one of them ever answered. Looking at their past histories revealed that most of them had been entering without regard to the nature of the promo for months, which surprised me. It seems as if being in a promo that was a poor fit wouldn't do them any good.

[LilyBLily]

I hate to share a BF promo that's supposedly all sweet romance and someone has sneaked in very suggestive covers and obviously is writing steamy. If I preview the promo and discover those steamy writers, I don't bother joining. I know that my readers don't even want to look at those covers. The people running some of the BF promos don't do enough policing, IMO.

There's a place for each type of story, but willy-nilly just shoving your book into every promo is bad form. I find it hard to believe that it sells books--of either kind.

[Bill Hiatt]

Yeah, it's hard to see what the advantage would be. I think some authors have adopted the throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks approach.

Not quite as disturbing is the people who entered so many promos at once that it's difficult to see how they publicize them all appropriately.

[Post-Crisis D]

Okay, got one another big concern with direct sales:
Bookmarking to prevent pirating.

Do you mean watermarking?

[alhawke]

Yes, I meant watermarking...
And DRM.   

[Post-Crisis D]

I'm not sure about this pirating issue in regards to direct sales.

As others have mentioned DRM can be broken.  I don't know how easily as I've never tried or had need to do so, but it can be done.  If someone is determined to pirate a book, DRM isn't going to stop them.

Watermarks aren't going to do it either.  Bookfunnel, for example, will add a line(s) to your EPUB saying that the book was "prepared for john@example.dom."  And how is that going to prevent piracy?  John can open the EPUB in an EPUB editor and strip those lines out.  On a PDF, each page can have the buyer's eMail embedded.  Okay, so take a PDF editor and strip that out.  Or, copy and paste the book content from the PDF into a new document.  Either way, watermarks on a digital document aren't going to stop a dedicated pirate.  It might not even stop sharing.  If your friend knows your eMail address, is it going to bother you to share a file with them that has your eMail address embedded in it?

So, the possible lack of DRM and/or watermarking with direct sales shouldn't be a factor in holding you back from doing direct sales.  The implementation of either certainly isn't going to hold back pirates.

[Bill Hiatt]

Starting something new is almost always going to take some time. What you're talking about doesn't sound like an unreasonable investment to get direct sales.

[Post-Crisis D]

For me, the options are Paddle or Lemon Squeezy.  Paddle has some of the features I would like, except that they are not really set up for eBooks.  Lemon Squeezy looks like it might be better for eBooks (even without StoryOrigin), but they don't yet have some of the features I would like.

Lorri earlier posted a link to Lemon Squeezy's roadmap and some of the features I would like are on the list.  So, in 3-6 months, they might possibly have what I want.  In the meantime, I can also keep an eye on Paddle.

For anyone that wants to sell direct today or soon-ish, the decision would be tougher.  But, for those in the U.S., if you are willing to set up things to collect sales tax in your own state, you probably won't have to worry about collecting sales taxes for other states for quite a while, especially if you're only selling a small number of books.  I haven't checked lately so this info may not be current but, last I checked, I think the minimum for collecting sales tax from a particular state was like $10,000 in sales in a year.  (Each state varies; I don't remember which states had a $10k minimum and I think there were a couple that had changed from $10k to $25k.  It's also possible that a state may have lowered the threshold since I last checked.  Regardless, you need to look into that if you plan to sell direct yourself.  The point is that, for most authors, you may not have to worry about sales tax issues right away, except for your own state.)

So, you could sell direct yourself using PayPal, Payhip, Shopify or whatever other service you want that still makes you the merchant of record, making you responsible for sales tax collection, and not have to worry about collecting sales taxes (aside from your own state) until you're selling probably thousands of books to a given state.  And then, if you're watching your sales, you could conceivably switch before you have to start registering to collect sales taxes.

That's something to keep in mind if you want to start selling direct on a soon-ish basis.

Otherwise, you can wait until Lemon Squeezy or Paddle (or whoever that will serve as the merchant of record so you need not worry about sales taxes at all) comes out with the features you want/need.

[Post-Crisis D]

Dan, some states count number of purchases.  So if 201 people bought a 99c ebook from the same state...we might have to file state sales tax.  That's the issue that concerns me.

Sorry, forgot about that one.  Didn't have my chart in front of me.  Also, Kansas, unless it has changed recently, has a $1 minimum.

Of course, one option is to set up your website such that it stops accepting orders after 199 (and doesn't accept orders from Alaska and Kansas at all).

On the other hand, for some of us, selling 100 books in a year is unlikely, so we just have to reject orders from Alaska and Kansas.

[Bill Hiatt]

https://www.streamlinedsalestax.org/for-businesses/remote-seller-faqs/remote-seller-state-guidance

I'm looking here, and if this is current, several states have a 100 or 200 sale threshold, and three states have no threshold (meaning tax has to be collected for every sale).

Also remember that some states allow localities and counties to levy additional. So I'm in California, which means I'd need to collect sales tax, but not just at one rate. I'd need to check specific county and city rates. That would be crazymaking even if I didn't have to pay a penny to any other state. (Assuming, of course, that I actually sold anything on my website.

[Post-Crisis D]

https://www.streamlinedsalestax.org/for-businesses/remote-seller-faqs/remote-seller-state-guidance

I'm looking here, and if this is current, several states have a 100 or 200 sale threshold, and three states have no threshold (meaning tax has to be collected for every sale).

Also remember that some states allow localities and counties to levy additional. So I'm in California, which means I'd need to collect sales tax, but not just at one rate. I'd need to check specific county and city rates. That would be crazymaking even if I didn't have to pay a penny to any other state. (Assuming, of course, that I actually sold anything on my website.

And note that was all part of the "Streamlined Sales Tax" initiative.  Only in the compromised mind of a halfwit politician can the Internet sales tax system in the U.S. be considered "streamlined."

I already have to keep track of close to 100 sales tax districts in my own state to collect and remit sales tax on in-state sales.  Ugh.

[Post-Crisis D]

Also, it's been mentioned in other threads but I don't think it's been mentioned yet in this thread . . .

If you are based in the U.S., you'll need to make sure your website is ADA-accessible.

And, be careful because there are some third-party tools/add-ons/plug-ins that claim to make your website accessible but they don't actually meet the standards.

[PJ Post]

Someone should make a list of everything to worry about when selling from our own sites - there's a lot going on.

[Post-Crisis D]

If you are based in the U.S., ADA-accessibility on your website may be an issue regardless of whether you sell direct.  A couple of years ago, I spoke to an attorney familiar with ADA-accessibility and his suggestion was that any website you have should be ADA-accessible, even a personal blog.  Was he being overly cautious?  Maybe.  I mean, attorneys are going to advise coloring well within the lines, you know?

But, the problem is predatory attorneys.  There are ones that go around looking for sites to sue.  Are author sites a prime target for that?  Maybe not right now but, as they continue to look for targets, they may come around to your site eventually.  Better to make your site as accessible as possible to avoid being an easy mark.

Of course, the problem is that making a website accessible is not a cut and dried process.  Even the accessibility guidelines can contradict themselves in areas.  You can sign up with services that will check and monitor your website for accessibility, but those services tend to be expensive.

And, if you end up going to court, you'd be at the mercy of a judge who may not understand websites or how to make them accessible or how it's not a simple series of steps to do it while the attorneys suing you will be arguing how easy it is do make an accessible site.

Fun fact: Some of the law firms suing people and companies for not having ADA-accessible websites don't have ADA-accessible websites themselves.

So, ADA-accessibility needs to go on the list, not just for selling direct but for having a website period.

[Bill Hiatt]

Evan is either a good designer or employs one. And one of the nicest things about Story Origin is that it's always improving.

[Post-Crisis D]

Maybe we should have a list of what is holding people back from selling direct?  Then, we can address those issues if possible.

From this thread and others, the starter list would seem to be:

1) Whether it is worth the effort
2) Technicalities of building/running a website with sales capabilities
   a) Having a cart/checkout system
   b) ADA-accessible website
3) Payment processing
4) Sales tax issues
5) Providing support for readers with issues downloading, etc.

Anything else?

[Lorri Moulton]

Maybe we should have a list of what is holding people back from selling direct?  Then, we can address those issues if possible.

From this thread and others, the starter list would seem to be:

1) Whether it is worth the effort
2) Technicalities of building/running a website with sales capabilities
   a) Having a cart/checkout system
   b) ADA-accessible website
3) Payment processing
4) Sales tax issues
5) Providing support for readers with issues downloading, etc.

Anything else?

Maybe add a few positives to the list?  If all we looked at were the negative aspects of doing anything...would we even be selling books?

[RBC]

One option, easiest for Wordpress but also works with others, is Surecart. It's free and has Tax calculation/EU VAT calculation. Paid versions have more capabilities but most aren't needed for indie authors:

https://surecart.com/


Supports payment options of:
SureCart currently supports Stripe (13+ Payments Methods in 135+ Currencies in 45+ Countries), PayPal, Mollie, GooglePay, ApplePay, you name it.

[PJ Post]

Maybe we should have a list of what is holding people back from selling direct?

Selling direct is just another distribution channel, one with its own pros and cons.

The larger concern is how to drive traffic, specifically our core demographic.

[TimothyEllis]

Maybe we should have a list of what is holding people back from selling direct?

Selling direct is just another distribution channel, one with its own pros and cons.

The larger concern is how to drive traffic, specifically our core demographic.

Not for me.

My biggest concern is government and tax.

I'd need a business registration (ABN), have to register for GST that I wouldn't hit the threshold for probably ever, and then I'd be officially a business, and start paying business tax rates, which are worse than what I'm on now as a creative.

I don't need any of that hassle.

Then it's about taxes in other countries, mindless bureaucracy in the site design, and then, it's about traffic.

And I seriously doubt I'd ever get the traffic to warrant any of the rest.

I was in online retail back when it began. Those lessons and expectations are hard to unlearn. And frankly, nothing much has changed for selling on your own sites.

[alhawke]

I wanted a nicer link than the Books2Read link I'd been using (nothing against B2R) but I definitely prefer this one.  For anyone wanting a way to funnel readers to our books to either buy direct or go to retailers, I think this is a success.

The Books2Read universal link should really have an optional "direct link" button. Then it would be perfect for showing your store AND other retailers. They only have a Payhip button option so far.

[Bill Hiatt]

It's been a long time since I looked at Books2Read, but I think it used to have an option to create a custom link. If that were still there, it might enable to creation of a custom link.

OK, so I just checked, and it has an "add an ebook store link." Couldn't you theoretically add your store link there?

[R. C.]

It's been a long time since I looked at Books2Read, but I think it used to have an option to create a custom link. If that were still there, it might enable to creation of a custom link.

OK, so I just checked, and it has an "add an ebook store link." Couldn't you theoretically add your store link there?

Bill's response is accurate. Here is a Books2Read example:  https://books2read.com/RCD-MarbleGrove

R.C.

[alhawke]

It's been a long time since I looked at Books2Read, but I think it used to have an option to create a custom link. If that were still there, it might enable to creation of a custom link.

Bill's response is accurate. Here is a Books2Read example:  https://books2read.com/RCD-MarbleGrove

Do you have an outside retailer in your example, R.C? All those are standard retailers.
I mean a "misc" direct button, like what Bookfunnel has on their landing sites. The functionality isn't there. It's there only for Payhip. If you have Payhip, it will show up as the first store on your Books2Read link.

Of course, Lorri's right about her Story Origin book links. They look more professional and prettier than Books2Read, imo. But, as usual, there's always something I'm not going to get with a program. I like the functionality linking of audiobooks with Books2Read. Doesn't look like you can list your audiobooks via StoryOrigin yet.

[R. C.]

It's been a long time since I looked at Books2Read, but I think it used to have an option to create a custom link. If that were still there, it might enable to creation of a custom link.

Bill's response is accurate. Here is a Books2Read example:  https://books2read.com/RCD-MarbleGrove

Do you have an outside retailer in your example, R.C? All those are standard retailers.
I mean a "misc" direct button, like what Bookfunnel has on their landing sites. The functionality isn't there. It's there only for Payhip. If you have Payhip, it will show up as the first store on your Books2Read link.

Of course, Lorri's right about her Story Origin book links. They look more professional and prettier than Books2Read, imo. But, as usual, there's always something I'm not going to get with a program. I like the functionality linking of audiobooks with Books2Read. Doesn't look like you can list your audiobooks via StoryOrigin yet.

I have not yet used the feature.

R.C.

[R. C.]

Last I checked, only Payhip could be added as another store/retailer link.  Shopify and other stores are not supported.  (That was a few months ago.)

...

I checked here: https://books2read.com/site/terms-of-service  and did not find anything restricting what site could be used in the "add an eBook store link" space.

R.C.

[Lorri Moulton]

Last time it was asked in the Wide for the Win Facebook group (a few months ago) none of the "our store" links would work except Payhip.  Of course, if anyone wants to try one and it does work...that would be nice to know.

ETA: I tried it with my store link and store book page link. Here's the error message. The same one I got when I tried a Shopify store six months ago.



It would be nice to include our store pages in a B2R link, but I would still use the StoryOrigin (or other store) page rather than a B2R link alone.  Nothing against B2R, but the StoryOrigin book page is bigger, it shows more info about the book...and I really like it.

[R. C.]

Last time it was asked in the Wide for the Win Facebook group (a few months ago) none of the "our store" links would work except Payhip.  Of course, if anyone wants to try one and it does work...that would be nice to know.

ETA: I tried it with my store link and store book page link. Here's the error message. The same one I got when I tried a Shopify store six months ago.



It would be nice to include our store pages in a B2R link, but I would still use the StoryOrigin (or other store) page rather than a B2R link alone.  Nothing against B2R, but the StoryOrigin book page is bigger, it shows more info about the book...and I really like it.

I have seen that error while creating UBLs. I tested then ignored the error because the link in the UBL functioned correctly.

R.C.

[Post-Crisis D]

Okay, so is a "universal link" just a link to a page that shows links to all the retailers that have your books in whatever format (eBook, paperback, audiobook) your book is available?

If so, why couldn't that be done on one's own website instead of relying on a third-party to provide it?

Maybe a script or WordPress plugin (for self-hosted WordPress sites) would be helpful for those that can't code it themselves?

[Lorri Moulton]

Well...the experiment is over.  For a variety of reasons, I decided to go back to Payhip. 

I think this might work for some people, but I missed the extras I could do with the Payhip themes.  And I'm still not sure what to do with that newsletter.  So having people sign up with the free ebook option wasn't that big a deal for now.

Instead, I added a couple of newsletter sign up areas in Payhip.  Just in case I decide what I do want to do with the newsletter.  I have a few ideas, but I'm focusing on the blog for spring.

If I sold a lot more books through the website, I'd probably try Lemon Squeezy...and they still might be a possibility for the future as they add more options. 
But for now, I'm going to stay with Payhip. 

[Post-Crisis D]

Does Payhip serve as the merchant of record or do you need to handle filing and paying all the sales tax (U.S.) and VAT (EU) stuff yourself?

[Lorri Moulton]

Payhip does deal with EU VAT, but they don't do anything for US state sales tax.  Until (if ever) I decide to run Facebook ads directly to my store, it probably won't be a problem.

Lemon Squeezy will have more options in the next few months, so that might be a possibility for the future.  Several states are changing from the 200 sales threshold to the dollar amount.  If all of them do this, it would make things much easier.

I am NO expert on all the "having our own website/store" issues, but I do think there are many options out there.  I believe Shopify tracks state sales tax thresholds (never looked into it that carefully) but there is a lot of information out there if anyone wants to look more carefully into what's available and where.

[Post-Crisis D]

I believe Shopify tracks state sales tax thresholds (never looked into it that carefully) but there is a lot of information out there if anyone wants to look more carefully into what's available and where.

Tracking isn't necessarily the issue.  You can do that with an accounting program or even a spreadsheet.  The problem is filing with all forty-something states and keeping track of how often you need to file and remit.  In my state, you file based on sales volume.  Most businesses will have to file monthly but, if you only have a small number of sales (I don't remember the threshold off-hand), then you only need to file twice a year.  In either event, you file whether you have sales or not.  I don't know the requirements of the other states.

So, even if tracking the sales isn't terribly difficult, if you had to file monthly with forty-something states, even if you don't have sales in certain states in that period, well, that's just a major loss of time.  Even twice a year would be over 80 reports to do each year.

Several states are changing from the 200 sales threshold to the dollar amount.  If all of them do this, it would make things much easier.

I wonder what Kansas will do.  Last I saw, you have to register, file, collect and remit sales tax if you reach a $1 threshold of sales in the state.  My thinking at present is that I'll just leave Kansas off the list of states I will sell to.  It's one thing to have to go through all the filing and collecting and stuff if you have thousands of dollars of sales in a state, but $1?  Um, no.  Easier to be like, you know, if you're in Kansas and want to buy my stuff, find a friend in Oklahoma or Nebraska or another neighboring state and have them buy it for you.

I don't want to lose customers or exclude people, but I'm not becoming a tax collector for $1 in sales.

[Lynn]

For internet sales at least isn't it $100,000 sales for Kansas since 2021? That's the latest information I could find.

[Lorri Moulton]

I am going to blatantly promote the blog on my new store (don't look at my books/promotion is not for me). LOL  That is all.

https://payhip.com/LavenderCottageBookShop/blog/lavender-cottage-blog

ETA:  The blog feature is one reason I went back to Payhip.  I can duplicate the website blog so more readers see it.

[Post-Crisis D]

For internet sales at least isn't it $100,000 sales for Kansas since 2021? That's the latest information I could find.

Yay!  You're right.  The source I found a couple weeks ago must not have been updated.

Now the lowest is Pennsylvania at $10,000 in sales.

Alaska, Arkansas, D.C., Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming remain "or" states where you either meet a minimum threshold ($100k-$250k typically) or have 200 or more sales.

As Lorri said in an earlier post, it would make things easier if more states would drop the "or 200 transactions" trigger.  If you have an eBook priced at $5 and sell 200, that's only $1000 in sales.  That 200 transactions trigger certainly doesn't help authors or small sellers.

[Bill Hiatt]

I am going to blatantly promote the blog on my new store (don't look at my books/promotion is not for me). LOL  That is all.

https://payhip.com/LavenderCottageBookShop/blog/lavender-cottage-blog

ETA:  The blog feature is one reason I went back to Payhip.  I can duplicate the website blog so more readers see it.

If I hadn't already invested a lot of time in other approaches, a mere glance at your site would persuade me to use the same approach.

It is one of the most beautiful online stores I've seen. And there's a clear, well-branded vibe there. It makes your books all the more appealing.

[Lorri Moulton]

Thank you, Bill! I spent all day yesterday on it, so that's very nice to read. 

[T. M. Bilderback]

I already had my stuff on PayHip and Gumroads. Now, I'm adding Lemon Squeezy to the list. I only have a few things listed there so far, but I'm working on it!