Author Topic: AMS advice for the comically inept  (Read 42651 times)

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #350 on: January 30, 2021, 01:12:55 PM »
How can I structure an AMS ad (or its custom text) to target KU readers rather than book buyers?  I've several books that sell only a few copies ea month but pull in fair #s of page reads.  I'd like to jack up the reads. :confused:
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #351 on: January 30, 2021, 06:21:04 PM »
Target authors and ASINs which are in KU.

There's no way to actually target KU readers directly, unfortunately.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #352 on: January 30, 2021, 11:37:56 PM »
Use KU and Kindle Unlimited in your keywords. I'm not in KU so I use KU and unlimited as negative keywords.
So if you are targeting author Jane Smith have extra keywords Jane Smith KU and Jane Smith Kindle Unlimited.

I haven't done this so I don't know how effective it would be but Kindle offers up keywords phrase like this when the user is searching so presumably some of them choose to click on it.

Your ad will also presumably be shown to non KU users. AFAIK that's as close as you can get to actually targeting KU readers. Also use the top KU books and authors in your categories from the category best sellers list.
 
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Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #353 on: February 01, 2021, 02:40:33 AM »
Good advice on getting more KU reads attn and I wll follow - thank you!

BTW, today completes my first full month working at stage 2 of Bryan's AMS plan and (no fault to Bryan) I've made a hash of it.  Rather than bldg on the substantial progress I had made w/his stage 1 (tripling sales and doubling reads), sales and reads collapsed by half.  Looking at the January data, I suspect Bryan's stage 2 plan requires maintaining a higher CPC than I offered in Jan.  I'm going to jack up CPC for Feb and see what happens.
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #354 on: February 01, 2021, 02:49:32 AM »
From what I remember from Bryan's plan he didn't advise raising bids until you were making $500/month profit per book. 

I'd be interested in hearing how other people found January. I would describe it as extremely horrible. I think the rising cases/hospitalizations followed by the um, excitement kept everyone preoccupied for a while. Or maybe my books just stink.
 

DmGuay

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #355 on: February 01, 2021, 03:23:41 AM »
From what I remember from Bryan's plan he didn't advise raising bids until you were making $500/month profit per book. 

I'd be interested in hearing how other people found January. I would describe it as extremely horrible. I think the rising cases/hospitalizations followed by the um, excitement kept everyone preoccupied for a while. Or maybe my books just stink.

My January has been meh. A few peaks, but mostly doldrums. But, I haven't had a new release since October. I generally leave my ads and don't tinker too much. I don't ever up bids.
 
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LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #356 on: February 01, 2021, 07:05:08 AM »
My January looked nicer because of the cheap newsletter ads I bought to coincide with Kindle Countdowns, but it has still been super meh. I've just finally done a new ad for my big series starter. It's very much like the old ad, but with an updated cover and ad copy and only a small number of keywords (150 if one counts each one as broad, phrase, and exact). We'll see if it even runs. The bids are all low, but the daily budget is relatively high. I would wait a couple of weeks before adjusting the bids. 

For some reason I thought you couldn't use Kindle as a keyword. Have I confused that with not being allowed to do it in ad copy?
 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #357 on: February 01, 2021, 07:13:58 AM »
AMS offers Jane Smith Kindle and Jane Smith Kindle Unlimited as keywords when you type in Jane Smith as a keyword. I don't use the unlimited ones.  I don't know about the ad copy, didn't they used to say Kindle Unlimited right in the ad carousel?, but now it doesn't seem to anymore.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #358 on: February 01, 2021, 06:03:53 PM »
It shows Kindle Unlimited above the covers of enrolled books, but only if you're viewing the amazon store relevant to your location.  Even though my account is with amazon.com, I only see the KU flash when I visit amazon.com.au (australia).


 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #359 on: February 01, 2021, 09:58:29 PM »
I'm in the US and I'm only searching in the US. I tried several authors again just now and I don't see any KU books in the carousel. I see Just Released and Preorder flags above the covers but nothing for KU. This could explain why ads are less effective for me these days.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #360 on: February 04, 2021, 07:03:03 PM »
I've been cancelling AMS ads left right and centre. Of all the ones I'm running, across 4 countries, the auto ones still seem to get the better sales.

I applied for a Bookbub last night (worldwide) and they sent an acceptance this morning - intl only, sadly, but it's cheaper than my weekly AMS spend and always makes more money.  I mentioned a while back this was my plan - to exit KU and try for regular bookbubs, or failing that run my own promo stacks.

I still have to book promos for the US at 99c, and I'd better get on with that now!
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #361 on: February 04, 2021, 09:56:42 PM »
Good luck with the bookbub.

Yeah. January my brand ad ate up most of my profit. I dropped the bids on that one down. I'm getting really discouraged. No sales in February yet, just free downloads. Auto ads were always good, and a good source for keywords, but ate up so much money.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #362 on: February 04, 2021, 10:23:08 PM »
Yep I just booked 14 other promos around the bookbub, to make up for not getting a US deal.

Frankly, if I could rotate promos through all my books every 30-60 days, I wouldn't use AMS at all.  All these sites have different rules about frequency though - I think the worst is 60 days between 'same' author and most are 90 days for the same book.

I've noted them all down in a spreadsheet, anyway.

My next series drops out of KU in 30 days, and another 30 days after that. I'll just apply for a BB with each as they're freed.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #363 on: February 05, 2021, 12:09:11 AM »
Your non AMS plan is about the best we can do these days. I don't think I have enough books to make the numbers work though.
 
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LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #364 on: February 10, 2021, 05:37:37 AM »
My new Amazon ad clearly isn't doing anything. It got 142 views in a week. Compare that to 5.6 million views for the original ad, which is still running. Since the new ad costs nothing, I'll keep it running. Well, limping. :icon_sad:
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #365 on: February 12, 2021, 02:27:13 AM »
Trying to get some traction going on my WWII book in preparation for the release of the sequel. Started an ad a couple of days ago and with 30 cents bids I have zero impressions. Changed the bids to 35 cents. If I can't get something going on this the launch is going to be a total bust.
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #366 on: February 12, 2021, 03:21:35 AM »
In doing some calculations for the tax man (yes, it's that season here), I see that my 2020 sales/reads income made up just 2/3 of my AMS costs.  Bryan's AMS tng gave me a boost Nov-Dec which I haven't been able to sustain into 2021.  I'm back to circling the drain.  Beginning to think I was better off when I sold trad and let NYC rob me.  **Sobs of self-pity.**
. .
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #367 on: February 12, 2021, 04:05:17 AM »
Amazon just sent me a survey. I told them I want better data, specifically, data on where my ads actually run and for how long. I don't expect Amazon to tell me. I'm supposed to search the entire store to find my ad. This is so contrary to normal advertising it isn't funny. 
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #368 on: February 12, 2021, 04:12:53 AM »
I'm up for a self-pity thread. No optimism allowed.
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #369 on: February 12, 2021, 04:18:23 AM »
In doing some calculations for the tax man (yes, it's that season here), I see that my 2020 sales/reads income made up just 2/3 of my AMS costs.  Bryan's AMS tng gave me a boost Nov-Dec which I haven't been able to sustain into 2021.  I'm back to circling the drain.  Beginning to think I was better off when I sold trad and let NYC rob me.  **Sobs of self-pity.**

I totally feel your pain. It's a lousy situation. Amazon's advice is conflicting and doesn't work. Bryan's advice, which at least he updates as he sees which way the wind is blowing, also doesn't work (remember, I did 30 category ads; the result was meh).

 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #370 on: February 12, 2021, 05:21:45 AM »
Here’s my analysis for why I can’t make AMS sell tons of my books:
- I’m not the genius writer I think I am.  (Don’t be ridic!)
- Amazon hates me.  (But it doesn’t even know my name.)
- I need to buy higher quality sacrificial goats.  (Makes sense.)
- Or timetravel back to the last month when I actually made a profit.  (Where’s Einstein when I really need him?)
- Readers are too stupid to appreciate the beauty of my prose.  (Hmm.)
Which means I can:
- Raise CPC bids to spend more in one month than I lost all last year on AMS in hopes of finally getting some attention.
- Or keep stumbling along dreaming of a lightning strike one day.  (Joyous success or to put me out of my misery.)
- Or just keep plugging away, understanding that, as all art is a con game, so is advertising, and I’ve just got to out-con the AMS game.  (Ooof!)
. .
 
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R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #371 on: February 12, 2021, 05:25:58 AM »
...
- I need to buy higher quality sacrificial goats.  (Makes sense.)
...

Damn it, I knew something was wrong with my marketing ritual. I need to drop the newts and go with higher quality goats!

Cheers,
R.C.

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #372 on: February 12, 2021, 08:17:25 AM »
I need to stand on the corner waving $20 bills. Amazon has spent $2.18 of my budget so far this month. No WONDER all my sales and reads are coming from paid newsletter ads.

 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #373 on: February 12, 2021, 02:55:13 PM »
Call me comically inept for sure. I spent an hour dramatically increasing the keyword bids on my two nonperforming ads. Then I  added new keywords and I not only accepted Amazon's suggested dollar figure but actually went slightly over.

The question is, will Amazon spend my money now, or did I just waste an hour of my life? 
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #374 on: February 12, 2021, 09:57:58 PM »
I did a bunch of ads last night sitting next to my husband on the couch while he watched a basketball game. If I hadn't been doing that I would have been reading reddit. So wasted time either way for me.

Lily - do you know how to increase all the bids on an ad at once or were you trying to be more selective on each keyword? Increasing the bids on every keyword in the target group should take a couple of seconds.
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #375 on: February 13, 2021, 12:04:51 AM »
I did a bunch of ads last night sitting next to my husband on the couch while he watched a basketball game. If I hadn't been doing that I would have been reading reddit. So wasted time either way for me.

Lily - do you know how to increase all the bids on an ad at once or were you trying to be more selective on each keyword? Increasing the bids on every keyword in the target group should take a couple of seconds.

No, I don't, but I was adjusting them based on their current bids, so adding 20 cents to each did not produce the same bid figure uniformly. I suppose my next step would be to do a universal bid hike on the keywords, a hike to some improbable dollar figure.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #376 on: February 13, 2021, 12:27:24 AM »
There is a check box to the left of each keyword. Check the box at the top of that column and adjust bid will come up above the keywords. You could adjust them all to the highest bid you want and then selectively go down the list and move some down. Hope that's helpful.
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #377 on: February 21, 2021, 04:19:47 PM »
We measure our effectiveness by sales, but I've spent hundreds in the past 2-3 months advertising one particular book, targeting the readers of books and authors I think are a good match. Sales have barely covered the ad spend, never mind the royalty.

This book was released on Kindle in 2011.  Over the past 5-8 years the also-boughts have been a mess, and I swear I've never seen it in the carousel for another title on Amazon (also-boughts, also looked at, recommended) unless I paid to show it on the product page.

Well, slowly, gradually, it's been creeping into view, and now when I look at random targets I see my book in their also-boughts and also-looked-at.

As a result, the daily sales have steadily increased until they're sitting nicely above the 90- and 30-day average. And 90% of these sales are in the US, which tells me it's the visibility and the amazon algos leading the charge, because I'm paying the same amount to advertise in the UK and sales there are currently minimal.

So what's my point?

You cannot measure your AMS ad performance on sales alone. There's an invisible hand at work, guiding the amazon algos so that more of the people looking at your book are likely to buy it.

How to make this work?

First, spend on ads targeting specific other titles related to your book.  In my case, popular humorous scifi like Space Team, Earthcent, Bob and Nikki. This can be expensive, because people using a scattergun approach and paying heaps for bids will be all over the books you're targeting.

This step can take weeks. You need sales, even if they're costing more to get than you're earning.

Now, once those targeted books start showing in the Also-boughts on YOUR product page, you can fire up auto-ads. These should be cheaper than the targeted bids above, and because you've already trained AMS to a certain extent, they should show your book on the same product pages above, but at a lower cost.

As you make sales, keep checking several target product pages, going through the also-bought carousel until (hopefully) you see your book. Also check the ads carousel to see if your auto-ad is showing. If it's on page 40 or something, you'll need to increase your bid.

I started all this in Sept/Oct last year, and only now am I seeing the benefits. It's like all the various parts of the AMS and Amazon platform have finally meshed and I can see the steps to (hopefully) reproduce it.

I spent way too much in the earlier months, mostly on expensive auto-ad bids which I was running before Amazon knew who to show them to. Running the targeted campaigns first, training the algos, is the key.

 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #378 on: February 21, 2021, 11:34:25 PM »
This is pretty much the experience I had in 2019 only I got there faster. High bids buy you the chance to compete and if your books sell the algos learn to like you a lot. Congratulations. I hope it continues for you for a long time.
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #379 on: February 21, 2021, 11:46:20 PM »
Thanks!  I've read many times about cliffs and the difficulty of getting amazon to notice older books, but if this works out I have several other series I can apply it to.

I don't think it's anything special about my book btw. I just think I spent enough on narrowly-targeted ads to make it work, which was the reason for my post.

But whatever the spend, high or low, I think 'highly targeted ads even though they may not be profitable' followed by auto ads with lower bids (which should be profitable or breakeven) might be a working strategy. At least until the algos change or something else comes along to spin the crystal ball off its axis.

I think I said very early on in this thread that I was happy to throw some money at AMS in an attempt to fix my also-boughts.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #380 on: February 22, 2021, 12:03:38 AM »
The conundrum I'm in is 2020 was so bad I'm not sure I want to spend a lot to try to get the ball rolling. My success in 2019 was on my first book (2014) and my newest one. I need to do the tax form and see how much I actually netted, I'd happily put that into advertising,  but I know it's going to be real depressing and probably not enough to make an impact. I liked Bryan Cohen's approach because it focused on profitability, but with low bids I couldn't get anything started.

In good news, I got two more subscribers yesterday on my mailing list. I think the tags for my posts must be doing something because none of my books have my website in them (started working on that this week).
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #381 on: February 22, 2021, 12:21:03 AM »
Do you have a subscriber magnet? Short story/prequel/short audiobook? I found that was a good way to gain subs.

The other way was to run FB ads which led to a bookfunnel page with a freebie, where they had to sign up to get the book.

The downside with some of these methods is a list full of freebie seekers, but it's not that important unless you're at the threshold between mailerlite subscriber levels (e.g. mine is the same cost from 2k to 5k, so having 3k or 4k costs the same.)
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #382 on: February 22, 2021, 12:43:02 AM »
Working on it. My book that I'm releasing in April, one of the MC writes a story that she submits to a magazine and it gets published. So I'm writing that story as a magnet. Put my mailing list sign up link at the end of the new book with a promise to send it when it is done. (Be forewarned, you guys are going to have to talk me through book funnel) My kids had last week off so I didn't write, but I should be able to finish it up pretty quickly.

I'm not on Facebook, but maybe a google ad eventually. I'm a ways from worrying about paying mailchimp because my list is too big. Like from here to Jupiter a ways.
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #383 on: February 22, 2021, 01:53:13 AM »
Simon and notthatamanda - thank you for this exchange - very helpful!  Now I feel less like :HB
. .
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #384 on: February 23, 2021, 01:10:38 AM »
Some strange magic has happened - I've begun to break even on AMS ad spend vs sales.  Plus see a bit of profit overall.  Bryan's teaching and experimenting w/lots of the good advice on this thread did it.  Now I'm terrified to make any further changes or I'll jinx everything.
. .
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #385 on: February 23, 2021, 02:01:59 AM »
You can add more ads with the hooks that seem to be working for new key words. If you've made it onto the first step the success you have had so far may make the algos like those books on new ads right off the bat. And congratulations. Keep a sharp eye on your end dates so nothing working gets turned off by mistake.
 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #386 on: February 24, 2021, 10:20:31 PM »
Went through and upped the bids on my WWII book ads in anticipation of release of the sequel in April. I need to add more ads too, I haven't sold a copy of the WWII book since early December.
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #387 on: February 25, 2021, 12:23:51 AM »
Following notthatamanda's advice, last night I fired up a new ad, almost immediately got 93 impressions producing one click for one $7.99 sale at 9 cents CPC.  notthatamanda is my new goddess!  Of course, now I expect her magic to work forever. Grin
. .
 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #388 on: February 25, 2021, 01:15:02 AM »
I prefer "Queen of the World" but can't seem to get it to happen. I would be benevolent.

Not to be bossy, but keep adding ads. Look at your also boughts, the best sellers in the categories, the authors getting the top page of the carousel of the best sellers. Not financial advice, YMMV, if an erection lasts more than 4 hours seek medical attention, etc, etc and so forth.
 

R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #389 on: February 25, 2021, 01:30:38 AM »
I prefer "Queen of the World" but can't seem to get it to happen. I would be benevolent....

Empress Amanda has a ring to it... Just sayin.

Cheers,
R.C.

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #390 on: February 25, 2021, 01:34:37 AM »
I just want the tiara. Oh and to bestow benevolent acts.

Too soon to say if upping my bids this morning did anything. Patience is not one of Empress Amanda's virtues.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #391 on: February 26, 2021, 11:04:56 PM »
Created new category ads for my WW2 book and sequel. Never had much luck with category ads for that book, they did work well for my women's fiction/psychological fiction but were expensive. I guess this is Hail Mary number 7. Next week I'll add Hail Mary #8 - automatic ads if (when?) this strategy doesn't work.
 

Lu Kudzoza

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #392 on: February 27, 2021, 03:44:08 AM »
Thanks!  I've read many times about cliffs and the difficulty of getting amazon to notice older books, but if this works out I have several other series I can apply it to.

I don't think it's anything special about my book btw. I just think I spent enough on narrowly-targeted ads to make it work, which was the reason for my post.

But whatever the spend, high or low, I think 'highly targeted ads even though they may not be profitable' followed by auto ads with lower bids (which should be profitable or breakeven) might be a working strategy. At least until the algos change or something else comes along to spin the crystal ball off its axis.

I think I said very early on in this thread that I was happy to throw some money at AMS in an attempt to fix my also-boughts.

Simon, I had a similar experience as you. The first advertising I did was too broad and it messed up the also boughts. In addition, the book advertised never showed up in anyone else's also boughts, similar to, or also viewed. Even when it was ranked as high as 10k in the US store. To fix it, I scaled down my ads to a more narrow group of books and authors (about 350 keywords in all). It took about three or four months to clean up the also boughts.

Then I saw your post about bidding high on extremely specific keywords and figured I'd give it a try. I started by bidding higher on about 50 keywords. I haven't done any crazy bids yet (highest is .52), but I'm getting sales for the most specific keywords and finally showing up in other books' also viewed. And finally, finally, finally getting more organic sales. Now I'm in the process of raising bids on keywords that are the closest match to the book and are getting sales.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for your idea.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #393 on: February 27, 2021, 01:53:25 PM »
You're welcome! It's just common sense really, but even so I stumbled into it by accident. I've been advertising almost non-stop on AMS since March 2018, and it's taken me this long and a lot of $$$ to discover that two plus two equals four.

I still like ASIN-targeted ads, but I think if you're running multiple ads on the same book they take a back seat to keywords in the AMS system.

 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #394 on: February 27, 2021, 03:06:55 PM »
If you think a 52-cent bid is high, you haven't tried to advertise a romance. (Well, I know you haven't.) I recently started an ad with 57-cent bids across the board and a $10 daily budget. Tightly targeted to non-steamy contemporary Western romance. Only fifty keywords in all three versions, broad, exact, and phrase, so 150 total. Nicely rewritten ad copy. Nada. The ad hasn't served. 
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #395 on: February 27, 2021, 11:27:43 PM »
After raising my bids to 50 cents (not romance) yesterday I got 8 clicks. Some may have been in the wee hours of the morning since the search term report from yesterday only shows one. That was on a book of Walt Whitman poems. No offense Walt but I don't think you are the magic bullet keyword that I am looking for.


 
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #396 on: February 28, 2021, 02:40:23 AM »
RE high bids:  I've one book that draws in 50% of all my sales and shows a profit after AMS costs.  How can I juice it up?  After much Bryaning, I have its ads set at 21 cents up/down.  Should I jump to some astronomical CPC w/a view to easing down until I find a CPC sweet spot or do the reverse or sacrifice more goats?
. .
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #397 on: February 28, 2021, 02:53:18 AM »
More goats.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #398 on: February 28, 2021, 03:06:45 AM »
RE high bids:  I've one book that draws in 50% of all my sales and shows a profit after AMS costs.  How can I juice it up?  After much Bryaning, I have its ads set at 21 cents up/down.  Should I jump to some astronomical CPC w/a view to easing down until I find a CPC sweet spot or do the reverse or sacrifice more goats?

More ads with more keywords. Bryan's advice was not to raise the bids until you were clearing $500 month PROFIT on a book. (Whether you want to follow that or not is up to you, but that is what he said.) Look at the also boughts and top spots on the sponsored carousel of the books that are selling your books for new authors and book titles for keywords for your new ads. 
 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #399 on: March 01, 2021, 11:10:16 PM »
Category - American Fiction Anthologies

Got impressions and a click(50 cents) for a book that has copies of the Declaration of Independence and other historical documents. Pretty steamed. Went through and reduced my bids on all the anthology categories to 5 cents.