Author Topic: AMS advice for the comically inept  (Read 42651 times)

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2020, 04:49:32 AM »
Luckily, I have only one title that has significant international appeal, so I've been ignoring all the additional ad venues except Amazon UK, where my (essentially second generation) keyword ad makes a profit.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2020, 09:19:29 AM »
Thanks to the advice on how to title the ads I was able to see at a glance that hook 3 is my best bet right now.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2020, 04:31:15 AM »
Something that only just dawned on me (duh) is that when I search for keywords using publisher rocket and it shows an estimated ~210 searches a month, that's only 7 per day for that particular keyword.

Combine 100 of those keywords in one ad, and 700 per day is the absolutel max *if* my ad shows to every single person who searches every single keyword/combo I'm using.

It's made me realise that some of my ads showing 500 impressions a day are actually doing far better than I thought. And that ads showing 100 per day are not necessarily terrible, that's just how the figures work out.

Also, that there's no point increasing bids on any of those ads, because I'm already getting all the hits I'm likely to.

So that leaves a choice - widen the keywords to include authors, books and search terms which are only barely related to my stuff, or keep searching for more and more obscure but relevant terms.

 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2020, 06:20:24 AM »
Maybe Listopia lists at Goodreads would be have some older books that were really relevant.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2020, 06:48:05 AM »
Yep, I'm using Listopia.

I think my biggest problem is that four of my series are in the SF Humour and Fantasy Humour categories, and there's a very limited number of targets. A couple of trad pubbed authors (Douglas Adams and Pratchett), a small number of midlist trad-pubbed authors, and another handful of indies who mostly sell at or below my current level.

The other two series (Gaslamp Fantasy and Space Opera) only have 2 books each, although I do have the third for each in the planning stages. I've not wanted to advertise those heavily until I've got the three books - or release dates, at least.

 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2020, 07:14:59 AM »
You're gonna need a lotta patience then.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2020, 07:42:29 AM »
Agreed. I came up with a killer plot for the third gaslamp novel and now I want to start on that one, but I have this other book to finish first ;-) December task, I guess...

 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2020, 05:46:49 PM »
Useful new vid. Also contains a counter-argument for the 'hundreds of AMS ads theory'

 

R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2020, 11:33:46 PM »
Useful new vid. Also contains a counter-argument for the 'hundreds of AMS ads theory'



I have watched several of David Gaughran's presentations. I always come away with new ideas and thoughts about how to improve my marketing skills.

Cheers,
R.C.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 12:11:56 AM by R. C. »
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2020, 11:54:35 PM »
DG is always worth listening to, and I'm glad he cut his weird beard!

When I first started doing AMS ads four years ago, I was grateful merely to get impressions. Soon, I got sales and reads, and until very recently, with various ups and downs, that has held true. My oldest ad still is reliably profitable for a very small monthly cost.

However, my recent situation of direly dropping sales and reads made me realize I had to DO SOMETHING. So far, having created over 30 category ads and a few more keyword ads (with more planned) is successful. I'm getting more impressions again, and I had my best day yesterday in months for both sales and reads. The ad cost was minimal. It's an experiment with an end date, so I'm not risking a lot.

I prefer Amazon ads to one-time ads on deal newsletters. I prefer to sell my books at full price instead of perpetually discounting them.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2020, 01:26:27 AM »
I'm running ads for a friend of mine, who has a new release (YA paranormal fantasy.)   I've set up US and AUS ads (she's Australian), and now I've done the UK ones. Will do CA as well shortly.

So far I've set up three campaigns in each country, one with relevant categories, another with a bunch of search terms like "YA Paranormal Fantasy", and a third targeting the names of authors of similar works.

I've managed to spend a whole 32c so far, but her page reads are increasing steadily.

My goal is simple: earn her US$3 per day net profit. To do that I've got to keep a lid on ad spend and monitor everything even more closely than I do with my own stuff.

 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2020, 04:48:46 AM »
I'm running ads for a friend of mine, who has a new release (YA paranormal fantasy.)   I've set up US and AUS ads (she's Australian), and now I've done the UK ones. Will do CA as well shortly.

So far I've set up three campaigns in each country, one with relevant categories, another with a bunch of search terms like "YA Paranormal Fantasy", and a third targeting the names of authors of similar works.

I've managed to spend a whole 32c so far, but her page reads are increasing steadily.

My goal is simple: earn her US$3 per day net profit. To do that I've got to keep a lid on ad spend and monitor everything even more closely than I do with my own stuff.

I don't think I have the attention span to do that!  :hehe
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2020, 06:26:00 AM »
Well, she's my closest friend and it's her first published novel AND I'm the one who convinced her to climb down into this well of sorrows we call a writing career in the first place, so...

 

R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2020, 10:43:25 PM »
...climb down into this well of sorrows...

Words from a writer.

Cheers,
R.C.

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2020, 08:50:27 PM »
Over the past couple of weeks I've modified a few long-running, inefficient ads, and I've started up a bunch of new ones.

I'm definitely seeing a trend emerging, and it's a positive one. Nothing spectacular, but I'll take slow growth over the opposite.

This is a chart of pagereads over the past ~20 days. First few bars are my earlier ads, then a few smaller bars where I wasn't running anything, then the second half of the chart with the climbing average (light blue bar)

Ignore the bar far-right, as that's today (incomplete.)

More importantly, sales ranks are improving too, which means borrows not yet showing up in the pagereads.

(Chart from SalesScanner).


 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2020, 11:30:46 PM »
That looks good.

As for my new ads, there's some action resulting, but nothing like a dramatic leap. My overall best seller for the month is my super niche nonfiction title that just keeps chugging along without any tweaking of the same ad I've been running for four years. 
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2020, 12:26:46 AM »
Yep, nothing dramatic, but then again if I wanted dramatic and exciting I could bid $4 per keyword ;-)

 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2020, 01:58:49 AM »
Glad you are having some good results. My sales are still in the pit. 4 of one book since I started ads, none on the other. I'm hoping it's the Big Vote next week that is putting people off getting books.  Thinking about applying to Kobo's black Friday sale and also lowering the price on Amazon to give ads a kick in the pants come end of November.

In good news, my mailing list tripled over the past two weeks. From 1 to 3 subscribers! :dance:
 
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R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2020, 02:28:18 AM »
...My sales are still in the pit... I'm hoping it's the Big Vote next week that is putting people off getting books...give ads a kick in the pants come end of November.

I was just about to post a whine titled: "Is anyone else seeing poor results?"

It looks like people are "hunkering down with their disposable income" because of the Rona roaring at full-steam, again, here in the USofA.

FYI - Read a story this am that argued well: Meat prices will double over the next few months.  If it comes down to food or books, books will lose every time.

Also, This is correlated to the above but the above is but not, necessarily, causal.  I have been running one-day give-away promos, twice a week, for a couple weeks. HUNDREDS of downloads but very, like very, few follow-on buys.

Cheers,
R.C.


Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2020, 02:43:24 AM »
Yeah, my sales have been dire in the US - I'm doing better in the UK right now. (I was born in the UK but live in Australia, and have always believed my writing to have a much more British flavour than anything else. In the UK they love the underdog loser who keeps making things worse for himself - Mr Bean, Basil Fawlty, David Brent UK edition -  whereas in the US that type of character doesn't seem to appeal quite as much. I know I'm over-generalising re the US, but in the UK those characters are baked into the national identity. In Australia it's more the rough, lovable larrikin, which is not what I write at all.)


Anyway, I guess if people already have a KU subscription they don't have to choose between food and books, but I was wondering yesterday how many people might cancel streaming services and the like if things are really biting.

 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2020, 05:08:17 AM »
Thanks and thanks to RC to for letting me know I am not alone with the sales in the dumpster.

Simon - I got an email from Amazon about Silver Enigma, put it on my calendar to order on 11/30.
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2020, 05:15:37 AM »
Thanks, I just got the email too. (I don't know who suggested authors subscribe to their own amazon author page, but it's a smart move.)





 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2020, 06:04:04 AM »
I never got one on my latest preorder and I am following myself. Maybe it went into spam, but I'm not digging through that folder. :)
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2020, 07:16:28 AM »
Same here. Just checked and I am following myself, too. No email regarding my last two book releases.
 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2020, 07:44:31 AM »
Maybe they know I'm a looky-loo who never buys.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2020, 08:20:01 AM »
I always buy my own stuff. I'm probably my best customer.
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2020, 01:15:03 PM »
I used to buy my own books upon release to double check that everything looked all right. These days I ought to remember to buy them when I run a discount--but often I don't remember. :doh:
 

Arches

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2020, 02:17:03 AM »
I always buy my own stuff. I'm probably my best customer.

Now, that made me laugh.
 

LilyBLily

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2020, 09:51:57 PM »
Since a lot of people are talking about a dip in sales, I'm heartened to report that the second half of October was much better for my books. I am on track to double my Amazon payout from what it had sunk to a couple of months ago (the payment that we got this week). Not great, but certainly less tragic. I ascribe this to having launched several dozen Amazon category ads in addition to a few auto ads and fine tuning a keyword ad.

Or maybe that goat sacrifice worked. grint
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2020, 09:55:50 PM »
The last two days have seen my royalties double the 3 week average. Page counts still creeping up. Ad spend still modest but increasing. (15-20% of royalties the past 2 days, but I'd take that given the increase.)

 

R. C.

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2020, 11:02:59 PM »
...
Or maybe that goat sacrifice worked. grint

I am considering calling forth the wraith...

Cheers,
R.C.

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2020, 12:23:45 AM »
The two sales AMS is crediting to itself showed up immediately. I've yet to have a sale show up later. Anybody have a similar or the opposite experience.

Lily & Simon - warm congratulations on your results.  :pdt :pdt

I'm wondering if I should try some ads in the UK this week as people may be less distracted there by other events as opposed to the US right now.

Also I'm wondering if both my psych thriller and WWII book blurbs are turning people off because they don't exactly indicate happy endings. Not sure that's what people want right now. Maybe I should concentrate on the romances.
 

Hopscotch

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2020, 02:49:34 AM »
October was my best month so far - sales up 60% - w/most of that increase from the point at which I began applying Bryan's ideas.  Reads barely increased, tho'.  My herd of sacrificial goats is about to be -1.
. .
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2020, 05:28:58 AM »
I always buy my own stuff. I'm probably my best customer.


 :icon_rofl:

That line belongs in one of your books.   :icon_mrgreen:
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2020, 05:38:22 AM »
Back when I was trad-pubbed I walked into a bookstore on my holidays, and there were three copies of my novel on the shelf, spine-out. There was a big fat Peter F. Hamilton book hogging a load of space, so I bought that one and it left enough room to turn my books face-out...

 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2020, 05:59:52 AM »
Back when I was trad-pubbed I walked into a bookstore on my holidays, and there were three copies of my novel on the shelf, spine-out. There was a big fat Peter F. Hamilton book hogging a load of space, so I bought that one and it left enough room to turn my books face-out...


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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2020, 01:24:18 AM »
Tried to create a UK ad, hit submit and went to fix breakfast. An hour later it was still processing so killed it. :(
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2020, 01:36:22 AM »
I just created a UK ad and it went through. On the other hand, I had a long delay whilst refreshing the KDP dashboard.

I've just boosted the bids on a few keywords, testing to see where that puts me on the carousel.  On the UK site I went from page 19 to 2.

I don't know... one of my books has been around since 2011, and was permafree for 7 years or more. During that time the also-boughts must have accumulated gawd knows what, and I suspect Amazon has a low 'relevancy' score for that title when I try to advertise on other SF Humour titles.

I'm also wondering whether KDP categories have an impact on ad visibility. E.g. that title is in Parodies and Satire amongst others (Hitchhiker's is in both) but if the books I'm targeting are not, does that reduce the visibility of my ad?

I recall that a high bid alone won't move you up the carousel, because Amazon gives preference to books it thinks are a better fit. You can take a sledgehammer to this by bidding wild amounts, of course, but that could get expensive.

The only thing is, I KNOW my book is relevant to those targets, so I'm hoping bidding high and getting clicks will retrain the amazon ad system, so that it will see my book as more relevant over time.

 

Anarchist

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #88 on: November 02, 2020, 03:31:49 AM »
I recall that a high bid alone won't move you up the carousel, because Amazon gives preference to books it thinks are a better fit. You can take a sledgehammer to this by bidding wild amounts, of course, but that could get expensive.

The only thing is, I KNOW my book is relevant to those targets, so I'm hoping bidding high and getting clicks will retrain the amazon ad system, so that it will see my book as more relevant over time.

Relevance is EVERYTHING in the algo right now.

Here's an example...






* click the images to enlarge for easier readability


This is a single keyword.

The key isn't just whether your book is relevant to a target. It's whether Amazon believes it's relevant to a target. There are many things you can do to "juice" relevancy.

The reward is being able to lock down the top spots both in search and the ad carousel for pennies when everyone else is going broke paying five, six, or seven times as much for the same visibility.

This is one of the core reasons I do well with Amazon ads.
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Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2020, 04:31:40 AM »
Great results, congrats.

That's exactly what I meant in one (or two) handy images. Half my books are clearly humorous scifi, but I've been having trouble getting them to show on humorous scifi product pages. I'm trying to retrain Amazon for that very reason.


 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2020, 05:19:24 AM »
When I started in AMS I watched some videos by Cheri Yvette. She explained it as a feedback loop. Getting clicks on something is a plus for the feedback loop. Getting a sale another plus. Having a book that's priced over $9 means Amazon makes more on each sale, which I believe to be a big plus in the feedback column. When an ad is doing well it makes sense that it gets more placement. The one thing I was never able to wrap my brain around was why Amazon would just cut off ads that were doing well. The only advice I've ever seen in that case was to start the ad again.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2020, 06:26:53 AM »
Well, look at the UK contact tracking system, where they were using an old Excel spreadsheet and it was throwing away anything after row 65535. (Max number you can store in a 16-bit unsigned integer.)  All the names they were supposed to follow up just vanished every time they added more.

Computers are literal, and humans are not. Getting one to program the other is asking for trouble.

For example, humans often think 'up to 100' might include the number 100, but to a computer ... nah. Or maybe books with an odd-numbered ASIN are sorted down the bottom of the table when the code serving up the product page is deciding which of 10,000 competing ads to show. Who knows?

In two years of trying I've never had a really successful AMS ad. I've tried with 7-8 different series across the same number of genres, with 99c books, full price books, freebies, you name it.

I suspect the 4 years I spent between 2014-2018 where I published nothing and sold even less might have left a black-hole sized drag on my 'relativity' as an author.

I've never sat down and thrown wads of cash at AMS, trying to kick-start things, because I'm a frugal type and as long as I've got enough to live on I don't really care about anything else.

But on an intellectual level, as a computer programmer with all the custom software, spreadsheets and info I need to make and track ads*, I'm annoyed that I can't get everything to click.  I mean, I have eight different series starters I can advertise, with a backlist of 29 full-priced books. If I can't make AMS work, what hope does my friend have when she's starting with one 2.99 book and a budget of about $10/week?



* I'm planning on modifying SalesScanner so it will import the AMS reports and show the ad spend next to each book in the royalties/income tabs.  That way I can see if I'm spending too much on something which isn't selling, and not enough on something else which is.


 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2020, 07:37:06 AM »
I published in 2014 and didn't try AMS until 2019. I was able to get lots of sales, great placement, profitability, until something big changed in Feb 2020. When I started I went in bidding just over suggested, but rarely paid near that for a bid. I just didn't convert to sales nearly as much as Anarchist so ads were ate a bigger percentage of my profit, but I was happy. Would have been thrilled to scale it up, but couldn't figure that out. Then it just crashed.

I think you're in smaller genres and keeping the ads going, keeping the books in the top 100 for extra free visibility will work, but it may have a lower upper limit for sales just because they are smaller genres.

I am also just thinking right now is a crappy time to be starting ads if you aren't in KU because people are worried about the near term future in so many ways and their subscription is already paid for. I'm not in KU so that affects me, can't remember if you are full in on KU or not. I am profitable so far, and the psych thriller sales are covering the small number of clicks the WWII book is getting so I'm going to keep experimenting. It keeps me off other, more upsetting, parts of the internet anyway.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 07:44:55 AM by notthatamanda »
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2020, 07:48:12 AM »
Yes, I'm fully in KU.

I've been running Bookbub ads on the side, almost entirely for a freebie to date but yesterday I fired up a couple of ads for a 2.99 series starter. (Ad mentions the 10 books are in KU)

I think I'm too focused on seeing 'this ad got that result', rather than just spending on ads and 'as long as it's costing less than 25% of my royalties, stick with it'.

As someone said, if your ads are targeted to the right books and authors and people are clicking them, the sales will flow (or the books are just not up to par...)

 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2020, 08:39:13 PM »
Day before yesterday I tripled my bids on certain keywords (authors and books which are almost precise matches for my own stuff.)  These are my 2nd generation ads, so they've already proven themselves.

I'm seeing an impact, as you can imagine.

But more importantly I'm using the 'popularity' charts on Amazon to track the ranking of a couple of my books. These lists influence amazon recommendations according to David Gaughran, and so they're worth a look. (Nothing to do with sales rank numbers.)  Thus, far more important than bestseller charts.

Yesterday the two books were on page 13 of my category, and today they've moved up to 12.  My goal is to get them onto the first page, but apparently these lists move like treacle, smoothing out one-day-bursts of sales.

Riddle in Bronze is on page 7 of gaslamp fantasy. You can save a link to the exact page, so it's easy to come back later and note any movements.






 

notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2020, 10:47:30 PM »
What do you mean by popularity charts? How do you get to them? Thanks.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2020, 11:11:52 PM »

(Jump to the 13 min mark)


« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 11:27:05 PM by Simon Haynes »
 
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notthatamanda

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2020, 11:51:22 PM »
Oh okay, got it. I always got to the popularity list and click on a book to find the bestsellers in the category. Just didn't know that's what it was. Thanks. And congratulations on your results.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2020, 12:09:38 AM »
I'm setting up more ads with hand-picked ASIN targets now - culled from also-boughts and earlier ads.

By the way, my reports page on AMS US just comes up blank now, no matter how many times I refresh it. All other countries working, and the same page works for my friend's ad account. I've reported it, but it's annoying because I can't access my valuable reports.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: AMS advice for the comically inept
« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2020, 12:09:59 AM »
(Jump to the 13 min mark)

Never heard of it, and can't find it.

Without seeing screen images or a vid of doing it, none of what he said made any sense.
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