Author Topic: Is Amazon deleting categories? (Read 2396 times)

TimothyEllis · « **on:** September 28, 2022, 11:52:07 PM »

I was just checking my last release for rank, and noticed the category I still had rank in the top 100 in was missing.

When I clicked through to the rank chart, the category was indeed completely missing, from both Scifi and Fantasy.

My best category, Metaphysical and Visionary just got deleted!!!

Is Amazon culling it's category list?

The worrying thing is, I think more are missing as well.

Because my 3rd one listed is Space Opera, and that's the hardest category to rank in for me, and I'm always well ahead of it in multiple sub-categories.

So for it to be showing as one of my 3, must mean I've lost probably 6 of them at least.

Anyone else seeing this?

Anyone know what Amazon are doing?

alhawke · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2022, 12:47:42 AM »

I checked one of your books, Hero at Large. I see it's still under metaphysical in the US, but that category's disappeared in Australia. It's also listed as "metaphysical fantasy" without "visionary". Are you referring to Australia?

Some of my books fit this "metaphysical" category and have been taken out in Australia also. Amazon might be playing around with the categories in that region alone?? I don't know. Hopefully, if it affects your ranking, it's a temporary thing. You know Amazon is always changing things.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2022, 12:51:01 AM »

Quote from: alhawke on September 29, 2022, 12:47:42 AM

I checked one of your books, Hero at Large. I see it's still under metaphysical in the US, but that category's disappeared in Australia. It's also listed as "metaphysical fantasy" without "visionary". Are you referring to Australia?

Some of my books fit this "metaphysical" category and have been taken out in Australia also. Amazon might be playing around with the categories in that region alone?? I don't know. Hopefully, if it affects your ranking, it's a temporary thing. You know Amazon is always changing things.

I was looking on the US store, as I always do.

Maybe Amazon are now changing what people outside the US can see on the US store pages? Like it being an AUS version of the US page. A stupid as that sounds.

If so, STOP!

I need to see how the US page looks to US people. It's my main marketplace.

Can you check out Matriarch?

Now I'm wondering if categories being deleted is why my income dropped like a rock a few weeks back.

alhawke · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2022, 12:58:18 AM »

That one is not under metaphysical with my search:
Matriarch in US (under private mode): Space Fleet Science Fiction, Space Fleet Science Fiction eBooks, Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store)

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2022, 01:03:15 AM »

Quote from: alhawke on September 29, 2022, 12:58:18 AM

That one is not under metaphysical with my search:
Matriarch in US (under private mode): Space Fleet Science Fiction, Space Fleet Science Fiction eBooks, Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store)

That's what I'm seeing.

When I click through to the actual list, Metaphysical isn't there in the list either.

What do you see when you click through?

Post-Crisis D · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:10:17 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on September 28, 2022, 11:52:07 PM

I was just checking my last release for rank, and noticed the category I still had rank in the top 100 in was missing.

When I clicked through to the rank chart, the category was indeed completely missing, from both Scifi and Fantasy.

My best category, Metaphysical and Visionary just got deleted!!!

My best category was Comic Fiction. If I remember right, I was in the Top 100 for that. My sales never recovered once they deleted that category.

Quote from: TimothyEllis on September 29, 2022, 12:51:01 AM

Can you check out Matriarch?

When I click the Matriarch link in your signature, Amazon shows me a "Page Not Found" page.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:30:57 AM »

Quote from: Post-Crisis D on September 29, 2022, 02:10:17 AM

When I click the Matriarch link in your signature, Amazon shows me a "Page Not Found" page.

Oops. Fixed.

Post-Crisis D · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:37:29 AM »

This is what shows up for me for Matriarch:

Quote

#9,111 in Kindle Store (See Top 100 in Kindle Store)
#60 in Space Fleet Science Fiction
#82 in Space Fleet Science Fiction eBooks
#93 in Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store)

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:39:55 AM »

Quote from: Post-Crisis D on September 29, 2022, 02:37:29 AM

This is what shows up for me for Matriarch:

Quote
#9,111 in Kindle Store (See Top 100 in Kindle Store)
#60 in Space Fleet Science Fiction
#82 in Space Fleet Science Fiction eBooks
#93 in Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store)

That's what I see too.

And the worry is, none of them were showing yesterday.

Post-Crisis D · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:42:59 AM »

Well, your books are still doing better than mine. My latest is at #8,546 in Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store).

I should probably switch to making adult coloring books or low-content journals.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2022, 02:46:37 AM »

Quote from: Post-Crisis D on September 29, 2022, 02:42:59 AM

Well, your books are still doing better than mine. My latest is at #8,546 in Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store).

I should probably switch to making adult coloring books or low-content journals.

The last one I saw of those was in the million range.

So, no. Not really a good idea.

Post-Crisis D · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2022, 03:20:28 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on September 29, 2022, 02:46:37 AM

Quote from: Post-Crisis D on September 29, 2022, 02:42:59 AM
Well, your books are still doing better than mine. My latest is at #8,546 in Space Opera Science Fiction (Kindle Store).

I should probably switch to making adult coloring books or low-content journals.

The last one I saw of those was in the million range.

So, no. Not really a good idea.

I was joking, but, seeing as my best selling book is currently at #2,997,950 in the Kindle Store, something ranking in the million range would be an improvement.

alhawke · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2022, 05:24:24 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on September 29, 2022, 01:03:15 AM

That's what I'm seeing.
When I click through to the actual list, Metaphysical isn't there in the list either.
What do you see when you click through?

What do you mean click through? You mean the actual top 100 in the category?

Here's a free service I use to run searches of all categories in Amazon books (and also to request new ones for new releases):
https://www.bklnk.com/categories_2022.php#cat_search_form
Interestingly, yours shows up in the US search but not the Australia one. So there might be something weird going on with categories in Australia. ??

She-la-te-da · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2022, 05:25:02 AM »

There's been some talk that Amazon has been removing books from categories they aren't supposed to be in. Like, a romance in a nonfiction category. Been upsetting a lot of people, because they're coming out of categories they should be in (or the author thinks so).

I'm guessing Amazon is doing some cleanup, and since they use bots, they're screwing with books that don't need it. Some hope that it will be fixed, but maybe not? We all know how bots are. It could be that some categories are being cleaned up as well, going away, being merged, who knows.

A few months back there were a lot of complaints about SEO stuffed titles and subtitles were getting removed.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2022, 12:07:58 PM »

According to that link, Metaphysical & Visionary has been replaced by Metaphysical, but it's not listed as a top 100 list category.

Nor does my book have a top 100 rank in it. Either they're not doing a rank for it at all, it hasn't been done yet after the change, or they merged a number of categories into the one and what came in pushed everyone at the top of the category well out of the 100.

writeway · « **Reply #15 on:** September 29, 2022, 03:09:48 PM »

Just co-signing that I still see the category. I am in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Metaphysical-Visionary-Fiction/zgbs/books/271587011

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2022, 04:08:28 PM »

Quote from: writeway on September 29, 2022, 03:09:48 PM

Just co-signing that I still see the category. I am in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Metaphysical-Visionary-Fiction/zgbs/books/271587011

Serious WTF?

They moved it from Science Fiction and Fantasy into Genre Fiction?

Or maybe it was always in GF, but only those who write GF knew about it?

That is seriously f*cked up. It means that all the books with angels and demons, spiritual and supernatural themes, in a scifi or fantasy setting have no home now.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #17 on:** September 29, 2022, 08:45:32 PM »

They changed something. Searching on Kindle store with nothing in the search bar used to get you a list of categories you could drill down into the ones you want. Now you get this: (along the top)

Kindle Books
Kindle Unlimited | Prime Reading | Kindle Book Deals | Best Sellers & More | Amazon Charts | Editors' Picks | Best Books of 2022 so Far | Hotly Anticipated | Comics & Graphic Novels | Kindle Newsstand | Amazon Classics | Amazon Original Stories | Amazon First Reads | Author Follow | Great on Kindle | eBooks with Audible Narration | Books by Feeling | Book Merch Shop

These are the science fiction categories:
‹ Any Department
‹ Kindle Store
‹ Kindle eBooks
Science Fiction & Fantasy
Fantasy
Science Fiction

I had to click through a different way to get to the list, but it's still there. OP - did you change your blurb or keywords recently?

You can request category updates here: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/contact-us

They have a template for it. However it looks like you can only pick 2 categories now (I think it used to be more but I'm not sure.) The other ones have always been Amazon's discretion to change. So maybe change your categories in the meta data for the book first, then contact them for other categories you want.

alhawke · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:53:57 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on September 29, 2022, 08:45:32 PM

However it looks like you can only pick 2 categories now (I think it used to be more but I'm not sure.)

Oops, just sent a request for 4 for my new book. I used "Contact us" feature in KDP and didn't see this new change. We'll see what they say.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #19 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:57:36 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on September 29, 2022, 08:45:32 PM

However it looks like you can only pick 2 categories now

Been that way as long as I remember.

You select 2, and the rest are either assigned by the submission bot, or through your keywords.

alhawke · « **Reply #20 on:** September 30, 2022, 07:35:36 AM »

Quote from: notthatamanda on September 29, 2022, 08:45:32 PM

However it looks like you can only pick 2 categories now (I think it used to be more but I'm not sure.) The other ones have always been Amazon's discretion to change. So maybe change your categories in the meta data for the book first, then contact them for other categories you want.

Like Timothy says, there's always been 2 categories when submitting your book for the first time on KDP. Is that what you're referring to, notthatamanda? Or do you mean that there's now a special area to request categories with only 2 as the limit?

notthatamanda · « **Reply #21 on:** September 30, 2022, 07:41:49 AM »

If you go through help (the contact us page) you can request additional categories. I have asked for more than 2 categories through this before. This is the instructions they give you:

Submit all your category requests in one message. If you’re making a request for multiple books, please include them all in the same message. Also, specify the marketplace of the category, as they differ between Amazon Stores (example: Amazon.com vs Amazon.de).

Format: ASIN (or ISBN), marketplace, book format, category
Example: 0000000000, .com, paperback, Books > Literary & Fiction > Contemporary

Categories to be added (list each category as a separate line item):
1.

Categories to be removed (list each category as a separate line item):
1.

alhawke · « **Reply #22 on:** September 30, 2022, 07:54:56 AM »

Got it, thanks. That's what I used. I wanted to check if they specifically restrict the number of entries. Looks like they list only two on the form, but I'm guessing it's to not encourage their thousands of authors out there to send much more.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #23 on:** September 30, 2022, 02:27:12 PM »

Okay, this is odd.

My last book has no Metaphysical categories listed at all.

Yet my first book does.

The Amazon help rep ignored what I said and simply asked what books I wanted adding into the category.

And yet, it's not there at all on my current book.

Makes me wonder if there's a serious bug in the category adding and displaying back end of the platform at the moment, and my book fell into it.

PaulineMRoss · « **Reply #24 on:** October 01, 2022, 01:06:58 AM »

This may be completely unrelated, but there's been a major glitch on one of my regular categories recently. My books fall primarily into to categories: Romance -> Historical -> Regency and Literature & Fiction -> Historical -> Regency. Because I had a new book out mid September, I was monitoring both of these. The first one was fine, but the Lit & Fic one suddenly fell over, and maybe 90% of the books in it vanished. Mine stayed, and every third or fourth book listed was one of mine, and the new book had its orange bestseller flag for ages. It took about ten days or so before they fixed it and all the missing books magically reappeared.

So yes, I think there's something going on behind the scenes. Upheaval and general ranking mayhem is to be expected.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #25 on:** October 01, 2022, 01:12:39 AM »

Quote from: PaulineMRoss on October 01, 2022, 01:06:58 AM

So yes, I think there's something going on behind the scenes. Upheaval and general ranking mayhem is to be expected.

Now I'm wondering if that's why income tanked around then.

The last release seems to have fixed it, but even so, things are still depressed on what they were last year.

I'm also starting to wonder if there's a reverse effect going on now as well. The ranks showing on my last book are not the normal ones, and the third one is actually Space Opera, which once a book settles out from release, is normally never seen on my book pages. And yet, it's one of my 2 primary categories. Which might be good, but it suggests 3 or 4 of my normal categories are missing for that book. Hard to know if it's bad or not.

alhawke · « **Reply #26 on:** October 01, 2022, 02:28:08 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on October 01, 2022, 01:12:39 AM

Now I'm wondering if that's why income tanked around then.

Wouldn't surprise me. Something's going on with Amazon. Sales have been steady for me wide, in fact greater with Apple, lately. Amazon has been hurting over the past few months. My recent launch was abysmal after more marketing on my part than ever. Maybe it's from the book

. I wonder if they've only made things worse for us with the economy downturn, focusing on their biggest sellers while taking from the rest of us?

The other big recent development--couldn't happen at a worse time--was to open AMS to trad publishers.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #27 on:** October 01, 2022, 02:37:07 AM »

Quote from: alhawke on October 01, 2022, 02:28:08 AM

The other big recent development--couldn't happen at a worse time--was to open AMS to trad publishers.

I've had 2 emails from Amazon in the last 6 hours advertising sponsored ads.

They seem to be doing a lot of advertising at the moment to get people to use their ad system.

So I'd not be surprised if they're also penalizing with rank those authors not doing ads. Again.

What makes me think that is the 20 day cliff is now happening at 10 days. And the 20 day cliff used to be the 90 day cliff.

Not only that, but category ranks deteriorate much faster than the main rank does.

cecilia_writer · « **Reply #28 on:** October 01, 2022, 03:38:38 AM »

Quote from: PaulineMRoss on October 01, 2022, 01:06:58 AM

This may be completely unrelated, but there's been a major glitch on one of my regular categories recently. My books fall primarily into to categories: Romance -> Historical -> Regency and Literature & Fiction -> Historical -> Regency. Because I had a new book out mid September, I was monitoring both of these. The first one was fine, but the Lit & Fic one suddenly fell over, and maybe 90% of the books in it vanished. Mine stayed, and every third or fourth book listed was one of mine, and the new book had its orange bestseller flag for ages. It took about ten days or so before they fixed it and all the missing books magically reappeared.

So yes, I think there's something going on behind the scenes. Upheaval and general ranking mayhem is to be expected.

That's interesting. Most of my sales are in UK, which is fine in general, but I had a dramatic slump in sales over the period of the Queen's death and the ten days or so before the funeral, which I had put down to people not being interested in light reading at the time! But it sounds from your experience that it was maybe an Amazon thing after all.

idontknowyet · « **Reply #29 on:** October 01, 2022, 07:43:01 AM »

i haven't heard of any categories going away, but i have read several posts about people leading charts in categories and amazon randomly removing them from those cats recently. Then refusing to put them back in, thereby tanking their sales.

notthatamanda · « **Reply #30 on:** October 01, 2022, 09:31:34 AM »

I just tried one of my books on Bklnk.com and it showed me 7 categories. Posting in case anyone wants to see what categories their books are actually in right now.

sliderule · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2022, 06:46:11 AM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on September 29, 2022, 12:51:01 AM

Can you check out Matriarch?

According to bklnk.com:

Matriarch (Imperium Galactic Book 5) by Ellis, Timothy (Author) (B0B4PK39LF) On .com

Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Fantasy » Epic Fantasy,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Space Operas,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Military Science Fiction » Space Fleet Science Fiction,(Sales Rank: 111)
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Military Science Fiction » Space Marine Science Fiction,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Alien Invasion Science Fiction,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Cyberpunk Science Fiction,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » First Contact Science Fiction,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Galactic Empire Science Fiction,
Books » Books » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Exploration Science Fiction,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Fantasy » Epic Fantasy,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Fantasy » Metaphysical Fantasy eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Fantasy » Superhero Fantasy eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Military Science Fiction » Space Fleet Science Fiction eBooks,(Sales Rank: 147)
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Military Science Fiction » Space Marine Science Fiction eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Space Opera Science Fiction,(Sales Rank: 170)
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Cyberpunk Science Fiction,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Alien Invasion Science Fiction eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » First Contact Science Fiction eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Galactic Empire Science Fiction eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Metaphysical Science Fiction eBooks,
Kindle Store » Kindle Store » Kindle eBooks » Science Fiction & Fantasy » Science Fiction » Space Exploration Science Fiction eBooks,

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #32 on:** October 02, 2022, 12:11:59 PM »

That's really strange.

Metaphysical would never have a higher rank than Space Opera. Never. Ever.

Could someone in the US click on one of the ranks on Matriarch, and take an image of the list of categories showing under Sci-Fi and Fantasy?

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2022, 02:34:54 PM »

Here's what I see when I look at the category structure on Matriarch.

alhawke · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2022, 04:12:19 PM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on October 02, 2022, 02:34:54 PM

Here's what I see when I look at the category structure on Matriarch.

Your sci fi and fantasy list above is identical to the category list I see here in the US.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2022, 04:41:15 PM »

Quote from: alhawke on October 02, 2022, 04:12:19 PM

Quote from: TimothyEllis on October 02, 2022, 02:34:54 PM
Here's what I see when I look at the category structure on Matriarch.
Your sci fi and fantasy list above is identical to the category list I see here in the US.

Thanks.

I sent those to KDP Help to see what they say, since they maintain the category is still there.

TimothyEllis · « **Reply #36 on:** October 03, 2022, 12:53:48 PM »

So I get a response with links to the categories....

And now they're back.

2 of the 3 shown ranks are different, including Metaphysical where the book is still midlist in the top 100, where previously all 3 were outside the 100.

Not sure if they just fixed it without admitting a problem, or if the problem was fixed without the rep looking at it.

alhawke · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2022, 02:57:43 PM »

Quote from: TimothyEllis on October 03, 2022, 12:53:48 PM

So I get a response with links to the categories....

And now they're back.

2 of the 3 shown ranks are different, including Metaphysical where the book is still midlist in the top 100, where previously all 3 were outside the 100.

Not sure if they just fixed it without admitting a problem, or if the problem was fixed without the rep looking at it.

Weird. I've seen issues get cleared even when the reps claim they can't fix them. Maybe it's the process of checking?? Glad they're back.

News:

Author Topic: Is Amazon deleting categories? (Read 2396 times)