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Special Interest Topics that affect authors => Corona Virus Public Discussions => Topic started by: elleoco on May 16, 2020, 02:28:25 PM

Title: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 16, 2020, 02:28:25 PM
And.... My biggest worry in all this lockdown mess is for my dogs. I lost my oldest dog and my horse in early February, and while I mourned them like all those losses, there was also more than a little relief. Just a week or two later I was no longer sure I could get an equine vet or body disposal people to the house, and since Kate, my horse, was 35 (kind of like a 100-year-old person), I hadn't been buying feed in quantities but only a month at a time for at least the last 5 years, which means there would also have been the getting-feed problem.

The dog, Victor, was also old enough illness and treatment would be a concern. I understand small animal vets are still operating, but in a way I really, really would not like to deal with, especially for end of life treatment. So he had an ultrasound, bloodwork, etc., when he began to go downhill and like Kate, was euthanized just before the lockdown.

But my other two girls - if I'm hospitalized, what's going to happen to them? My friends are all dog people, which is to say they already have their own. I know, assuming her health holds, the breeder of Story, the older dog, would take her and care for her in every way, and since she co-owns, no authority could stop her from doing that, assuming her health holds.

The younger dog's breeder also co-owns, but she no longer lives close. It was a relief to have Janine, Story's breeder, tell me she'd take Teagan too if it came to that. At the first sign of any symptom, I'll send her a power of attorney for Teagan ASAP.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Bill Hiatt on May 17, 2020, 12:33:52 AM
And.... My biggest worry in all this lockdown mess is for my dogs. I lost my oldest dog and my horse in early February, and while I mourned them like all those losses, there was also more than a little relief. Just a week or two later I was no longer sure I could get an equine vet or body disposal people to the house, and since Kate, my horse, was 35 (kind of like a 100-year-old person), I hadn't been buying feed in quantities but only a month at a time for at least the last 5 years, which means there would also have been the getting-feed problem.

The dog, Victor, was also old enough illness and treatment would be a concern. I understand small animal vets are still operating, but in a way I really, really would not like to deal with, especially for end of life treatment. So he had an ultrasound, bloodwork, etc., when he began to go downhill and like Kate, was euthanized just before the lockdown.

But my other two girls - if I'm hospitalized, what's going to happen to them? My friends are all dog people, which is to say they already have their own. I know, assuming her health holds, the breeder of Story, the older dog, would take her and care for her in every way, and since she co-owns, no authority could stop her from doing that, assuming her health holds.

The younger dog's breeder also co-owns, but she no longer lives close. It was a relief to have Janine, Story's breeder, tell me she'd take Teagan too if it came to that. At the first sign of any symptom, I'll send her a power of attorney for Teagan ASAP.
I can imagine it must be tough to have to worry about family members (furry and otherwise) who depend on you. But Colorado is not as hard-hit as some states, and it sounds as if you're taking care of yourself, so hopefully, you won't get infected. (I just did a quick calculation based on the latest figures, and it looks as if cases in your state are less than four-tenths of one percent of the population, and, if your state is like others, a big chunk of those are people living and/or working in crowded conditions.) However, being a worrier myself, I know how it is to have something hanging over you like that. I'll be keeping a good thought for you.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 17, 2020, 01:55:42 PM
But my other two girls - if I'm hospitalized, what's going to happen to them? My friends are all dog people, which is to say they already have their own. I know, assuming her health holds, the breeder of Story, the older dog, would take her and care for her in every way, and since she co-owns, no authority could stop her from doing that, assuming her health holds.

The younger dog's breeder also co-owns, but she no longer lives close. It was a relief to have Janine, Story's breeder, tell me she'd take Teagan too if it came to that. At the first sign of any symptom, I'll send her a power of attorney for Teagan ASAP.

Not entirely on-topic, but can I ask about "co-owns"? Is this a specific, unusual situation you have (I've heard of people doing that for dogs that the breeder intended to use for breeding), or was this presented as the standard contract by the breeders? Because if so, that gets a huge "back away slowly" from me.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 17, 2020, 06:01:03 PM
Not entirely on-topic, but can I ask about "co-owns"? Is this a specific, unusual situation you have (I've heard of people doing that for dogs that the breeder intended to use for breeding), or was this presented as the standard contract by the breeders? Because if so, that gets a huge "back away slowly" from me.

It is a thread digression, but I'm sure those not interested will skip this and forgive us. Yes, in purebred dogs it's pretty common that breeders want to co-own puppies they sell. The good thing about ethical breeders of quality dogs is that they feel a responsibility for any puppy they've bred for its whole life. If necessary they'll take back a 9-year-old spayed or neutered dog they bred and give it a good home. The flip side of that is they want some control. They don't want a puppy buyer breeding a dog they got as pet quality and swore to never breed. They do want a puppy buyer who promised to show the dog, breed it and give the original breeder a puppy out of the first litter to keep that promise. I know of one breeder in this area who used her contract to get back a dog at 3 or 4 because the buyer left him chained in the yard and neglected him. So some breeders try to control what happens to their puppies with co-ownerships. Others use written contracts, and some use both. And I've heard of ugly disputes both because of co-ownerships and contracts, even occasional lawsuits.

So if you want a purebred puppy, do get it from an caring, ethical breeder, but also do know what you're getting into. At least on contracts, IMO the disputes are the buyer's fault. They want the puppy so much they'll sign anything, and some breeders really have restrictive contracts. (I saw one that dictated what you had to feed the dog, and you were to mail proofs of purchase of the right kibble to the breeder.) So when the dog is a couple of years old, one of those contract provisions comes into play and the buyer gets all upset. "I didn't realize." As if signing something without reading it is an automatic out.

Moral of story. Read any contract before signing. Don't sign if you're not willing to honor every single provision even in the worst case. Kris Rusch gives that advice about publishing contracts. Bad contract? Try to negotiate, and if you can't get it fixed, walk away.

In my case, I am not a breeder and everyone involved knows what I want is a spayed pet I can train and trial in obedience and other competitions I can do myself. I always insisted on getting my dogs in my name only, albeit with a contract. However, my situation has changed. The odds of my outliving the dogs I have now are good; I'm old but healthy. Still, it's not guaranteed. I'll be close to 80 when my older dog is 10 and 80 when the younger one is. My last Rottweiler lived almost to 12. A co-ownership with a person I trust protects the dog.

The co-ownership means there's no legal hassle about that person taking the dog if something happens to me. I don't have family I'm close to or who live within a thousand miles. So let's say I suddenly kick the bucket or become disabled. It's possible animal control would be called and take the dogs before anyone who cares about the dogs finds out. If a friend goes to animal control some days later and says they want that dog, that they promised me to take it and care for it, a tiny tyrant bureaucrat could refuse to release the dog. There are laws, rules, regulations, they have to follow process, etc. However, animal control can't refuse to turn that dog over to a legal co-owner.

More than you ever wanted to know, right?
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 18, 2020, 12:45:27 PM
Not entirely on-topic, but can I ask about "co-owns"? Is this a specific, unusual situation you have (I've heard of people doing that for dogs that the breeder intended to use for breeding), or was this presented as the standard contract by the breeders? Because if so, that gets a huge "back away slowly" from me.

It is a thread digression, but I'm sure those not interested will skip this and forgive us. Yes, in purebred dogs it's pretty common that breeders want to co-own puppies they sell. The good thing about ethical breeders of quality dogs is that they feel a responsibility for any puppy they've bred for its whole life. If necessary they'll take back a 9-year-old spayed or neutered dog they bred and give it a good home. The flip side of that is they want some control. They don't want a puppy buyer breeding a dog they got as pet quality and swore to never breed. They do want a puppy buyer who promised to show the dog, breed it and give the original breeder a puppy out of the first litter to keep that promise. I know of one breeder in this area who used her contract to get back a dog at 3 or 4 because the buyer left him chained in the yard and neglected him. So some breeders try to control what happens to their puppies with co-ownerships. Others use written contracts, and some use both. And I've heard of ugly disputes both because of co-ownerships and contracts, even occasional lawsuits.

Are you in the US? My dad has had purebred dogs my whole life, and he's never been asked to sign any kind of co-ownership agreement, nor would he. Nor would I. There's simply no way I would allow anyone else to have legal ownership rights to a member of my family (or even an expensive piece of my property). I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing you at all, but I do find it an outrageous thing for any breeder to require. That is just such a hard no from me, as someone used to the idea of purebred dogs, that I would honestly be offended if I was presented with a contract like that. I would sooner buy a random puppy from the neighborhood.

I definitely agree that a reputable breeder will take a dog back if there's a problem. This is also something I've been used to from seeing my dad's experience with breeders. The one he's gotten his past several dogs from has a policy of taking any of their dogs back at any age for any reason. A good, reputable breeder cares about their dogs and wants them to have a good home, no matter its age. (My brother, years ago, bought a dog from what seemed like a reputable breeder. After several years, his life situation changed and he felt he had to get rid of it. The breeder was surprised by the very notion that he might take the dog back. My brother was stuck giving it to some stranger who didn't even end up being a good fit. My brother didn't want to deal with it. We have no idea what ultimately happened to the dog. So, yeah ... if you're gonna pay the money to buy from a breeder, I'd call a solid return policy an absolute must.)

I've heard of spay/neuter agreements, where breeders require that a dog be spayed/neutered so that they don't get used for competing breeding, which makes sense to me. I can understand where that is coming from, and while I don't love it (I do tend to want to actually fully own things I buy), it wouldn't be an issue for me since I would never deliberately breed one of my pets (it's shockingly dangerous for females and so often goes poorly). That is absolutely possible to do without the breeder having to retain ownership of the dog. (Especially if they just go ahead and get it fixed before selling. My cat was actually spayed at like 7 1/2 weeks because the rescue required it, and she was totally fine.)

I would never sign a contract where the other party tried to assure me that they'd never use it. "If you don't intend to use it, why do you need it?" and "If you don't trust me to not be a criminal, don't sell me your dog. If you do your due diligence and think I'm a responsible person, sell me the dog. You don't get it both ways." (Really, the same kind of contract advice that, as you say, Kris Rusch talks about for writing. At least the first point there, though the second is a bit like the "morality clauses" she's mentioned in recent contracts.)

Honestly, it's probably a moot point as far as my personal future, since cats just fit so much better into my life. But still, if I ever did decide to get a dog and wanted to get it from a proper breeder, I would still never sign a contract like that. Not all breeders use them, so there's no reason for buyers to accept them (unless their very specific circumstances make them make sense).

It does make sense in your situation, though, if you're old enough without anyone else lined up to care for the dog if you die. I can see that. It can be challenging enough for the family to figure out what to do with a dog; it would be even worse if the owner didn't have family or family who cared enough to find a good home. (Though I'd think another option, rather than co-ownership, would be to just include instructions in your trust after you make arrangements with someone, to cover any potential legal issues.)
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: JRTomlin on May 18, 2020, 12:49:55 PM
In fact, a good breeder will make returning a dog if you cannot give it a home part of the contract which is different from co-ownership. I've never run into that.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 18, 2020, 01:58:48 PM
Are you in the US? My dad has had purebred dogs my whole life, and he's never been asked to sign any kind of co-ownership agreement, nor would he. Nor would I. There's simply no way I would allow anyone else to have legal ownership rights to a member of my family (or even an expensive piece of my property). I don't mean to sound like I'm criticizing you at all, but I do find it an outrageous thing for any breeder to require. That is just such a hard no from me, as someone used to the idea of purebred dogs, that I would honestly be offended if I was presented with a contract like that. I would sooner buy a random puppy from the neighborhood.

I'm in Colorado. In some ways I shared your attitude toward co-ownership until these last two dogs, and always had only dogs that were 100% mine, although for the purebreds I always signed a contract I thought reasonable. I wanted my puppies to come from people who cared enough to try to protect them. It's just a matter of what a particular breeder wanted and what I did, whether that could mesh, whether they ended up having a puppy for me, etc.

Each of us gets to decide what's right for us. No one has to get a puppy from any certain source.

As an aside, I did Rottweiler rescue for 10 years, and our adoption requirements were similar to that of breeders, more stringent really: fee, contract, references, home visit. Every rescue I know of is like that. And if you don't want that, you can go to a public animal shelter, pay the fee and take the dog.

Under law, dogs may be merely property, but as far as I'm concerned, getting a dog shouldn't be like buying a widget, but like adopting a child. You can't believe the lies people tell to get what they want; checking them out before handing over a living creature only makes sense. Taking calls to a rescue group from people who need to "get rid of" their dog is a real eye opener, as is calling references and visiting homes of adoption applicants.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 18, 2020, 08:35:35 PM
So pets -

Most dog breeders I've heard of have "return to breeder" contracts. If you don't want the dog anymore, for any reason, they want it returned.

Shelters - you do sign an agreement around here that says you will return the pet to the shelter. Shelters here spay, and neuter dogs, cats, and rabbits, before they adopt them out. Dogs and cats are microchipped. I know someone who adopted 2 cats from the MSPCA. She gave one to her mother in law, and specifically told her if she didn't want the cat, the daughter in law would keep both. Instead MIL took the cat to a different shelter. They scanned the microchip and the DIL got a call from the original shelter yelling at her about it. Other than that, I have to say, this lady was the most awesome MIL ever, even DIL said so, she's just very non confrontational, even though it wouldn't have been a confrontation.

Rabbits - so our old rabbit club leader hooked up a new member with a breeder and got them an amazing mini rex. Which they got neutered. Leader was PISSED, and kind of nasty about it. As a general rule, rabbits can live 10-12 years if spayed/neutered. Six years is all you get if not. Temperament is also much better when fixed, they are horny all the time, starting at about six months old, when their hormones kick in. Which is why a lot of rabbits get dumped in shelters about six months after Easter. Our club does an annual "Pat the Bunny" club about a month before Easter every year, to try to educate people about rabbits. Which we didn't get to have this year. :( Now we encourage people who want to join the club to get animals from the shelter. I'm not against breeding, but I know realistically people don't really know what they are getting into with rabbit breeding, so I don't encourage it.

On the other hand, at least one purebred rabbit is endangered, the French lop. And of all the rabbits to breed, I wouldn't do that one. They are nutty. English lops are lovely. And my dream rabbit is a Thrianta.

Sorry - pre caffeine, no filter.

Tim - Time to break this off into a pet/breeder thread?
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 18, 2020, 09:20:21 PM
Before the separate 'dog breeder' thread kicks in....

We have never had a contract with anyone who bought one of our dogs, in theory the way the system works here is you sold the dog, they bought the dog, end of story. However, the last two we sold did come back home. Ella we sold when she was 8 months and two weeks later she ran from her new owner. Took us a week to find her, her new owner was in an area about 50 klicks to our east. Ended up simply driving through several villages with flyers and photos of her and offering a reward. Fortunately my wife is half Tatar and speaks Tatar well. That little foible got Ella located in a day, although it was fun catching her. She was never the same after we brought her home, obviously she was beaten often by the woman who bought her. To this day, almost 8 years later, she is afraid of my hand even though she has never had anything but love and affection since we found her. None of our dogs have ever been hit or beaten, all is done with patience and consistency.

The other dog that came home is Ruslan. We sold him at six months of age to acquaintances who live but a few kilometers away and we did see him from time to time. Suffice it to say they called last late summer and said either we come get him or they would turn him out on the street, they just didn't want him anymore. Needless to say, we immediately picked him up. He was not in the best of condition, not emaciated but surely not well fed, his coat was bedraggled and he was stone deaf. His three sisters, Aleesya, Plyushya and Zychkya, were not sold so we still had them. They welcomed the old boy as they should, they remembered him and he remembered them after over 12 years of separation. He's doing quite well, now, happy, showered with love every day as they all are, and well fed. However, he does not get along will with his nephew Aleksandr, but that's to be expected.

Aleesya passed away about three weeks ago. She lived in the house with Sophia and Ye'katarina, she was getting a bit frail. She simply walked up to my wife one morning, laid down and never stood up again. She passed that evening and since we can't get up in the mountains to put her with her mother and father, we put her to rest outside our west walls. With three more now very old dogs, I know what's coming this summer. So be it, they've all had good and long lives.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: VanessaC on May 18, 2020, 11:22:57 PM

Rabbits - so our old rabbit club leader hooked up a new member with a breeder and got them an amazing mini rex. Which they got neutered. Leader was PISSED, and kind of nasty about it. As a general rule, rabbits can live 10-12 years if spayed/neutered. Six years is all you get if not. Temperament is also much better when fixed, they are horny all the time, starting at about six months old, when their hormones kick in. Which is why a lot of rabbits get dumped in shelters about six months after Easter. Our club does an annual "Pat the Bunny" club about a month before Easter every year, to try to educate people about rabbits. Which we didn't get to have this year. :( Now we encourage people who want to join the club to get animals from the shelter. I'm not against breeding, but I know realistically people don't really know what they are getting into with rabbit breeding, so I don't encourage it.

On the other hand, at least one purebred rabbit is endangered, the French lop. And of all the rabbits to breed, I wouldn't do that one. They are nutty. English lops are lovely. And my dream rabbit is a Thrianta.


I have two rescue cats, which both came with the "return to shelter" clause - if anything happens, they can go back to the shelter, no questions asked. I think it's actually mandatory in the contract that if you can't keep them, they go back to the rescue organisation, rather than me attempting to rehome them. But, whilst I'm capable, they will have a home with me.

My dog is pedigree and his breeder would definitely have him back if I couldn't keep him any longer - all reputable and ethical breeders that I've ever heard of would do the same. However, like the cats, he's with me for the duration.

Oh, rabbits! Do you know, I have never, ever, had a rabbit for a pet, but they always seem absolutely adorable. I also had no idea that they could live so long - that's a good lifespan for a pet. That said, I have a weakness for large animals, which tend not to live so long - my dog is a giant breed, and the short life span is the absolutely worst thing about the breed.

Clearly, with two cats and a giant dog in the house, I'm not getting rabbits anytime soon, though!

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 18, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
The French lops are the biggest lops, 12-14 pounds. Flemish giants are even bigger. And some lady in the UK is breeding super ginormous Flemish giants.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/210091-longest-rabbit

We love our rabbits. They use a litterbox like a cat and love to play like a dog. The definitely have huge personalities and worship me as the giver of the daily dried papaya treat. They lick and groom us for hours if we want.

The whole pet compatibility thing really depends on the animals themselves, not that I'm trying to talk anyone into getting a pet or another pet. That needs to be a careful decision. But we had a friend who had two Dobermans and two rabbits and when one rabbit would stamp one Doberman would hide under the kitchen table and cry. It was pretty funny.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: VanessaC on May 19, 2020, 01:27:33 AM
Wow, that is one giant rabbit! Thank you so much for the extra information. They sound like great pets. Will definitely consider them in the future - my two cats would not take well to another pet in the house! The dog would love it though.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 19, 2020, 02:10:57 AM
Wow, that is one giant rabbit! Thank you so much for the extra information. They sound like great pets. Will definitely consider them in the future - my two cats would not take well to another pet in the house! The dog would love it though.
I'm not a cat person but I know enough to not piss a cat off, ever. :)
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on May 19, 2020, 03:45:04 AM
Ellen, I understand your concerns. My dog is four and there is no way I am going to outlive him. I've already made arrangements for my daughter to take Mikey if anything should happen to me.

I was recently two months in the hospital and rehab and then another four days a week and a half after I got out of rehab, and Mikey would not eat properly or go into the yard to do his business. Two months later and he is still not fully back to house trained. he is eating on a regular schedule now but not the same one as he was before. I started walking him yesterday and now he seems to be remembering his training.

I'm glad you told us about the co-ownership so that there will be no question my daughter can keep Mikey. My grandson was at home with him while I was away, but it's obvious he neglected him. Not out of malice, but laziness.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 19, 2020, 04:27:07 AM
We have a declaration of temporary guardianship for the kids, with three friends listed on it. They are all bunny people so no problem there. We also have the info in cards in our wallets. If anyone is interested I would suggest having a notice in your home that is easily visible, plus a card for your wallet that states:

I have a (list pet at home).  If I am unable to care for my pet please contact (Emergency contact information) They have agreed to take care of my pet if I am unable.

So IANAL, but the way the lawyer explained it to me, for kids, is that the cops, in my state anyway, need something legal, if there is an emergency or they have no choice but to call social services. We got a laminated card with all the info and the cards for our wallets. If you get removed from your house by ambulance, or worse, make it easy for law enforcement to find the emergency pet custodian info. They may have no other choice but to call animal control otherwise. There may be some options for storing that info in the microchip database too, if your pet is microchipped, but I am not familiar with that.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 19, 2020, 12:11:07 PM
As an aside, I did Rottweiler rescue for 10 years, and our adoption requirements were similar to that of breeders, more stringent really: fee, contract, references, home visit. Every rescue I know of is like that. And if you don't want that, you can go to a public animal shelter, pay the fee and take the dog.

Under law, dogs may be merely property, but as far as I'm concerned, getting a dog shouldn't be like buying a widget, but like adopting a child. You can't believe the lies people tell to get what they want; checking them out before handing over a living creature only makes sense. Taking calls to a rescue group from people who need to "get rid of" their dog is a real eye opener, as is calling references and visiting homes of adoption applicants.

I understand why rescue organizations are so stringent, but I honestly think that the cost and bother (and sometimes unreasonable contracts) are a huge deterrent from good, responsible owners getting those animals. Just because someone *can* pay the fees and *is* a good owner with a good situation doesn't mean they want to pay a premium price when they're trying to "rescue" an animal, nor does it mean they want to go through the whole "are you worthy to adopt this dog?" thing--again, when they're trying to, as they see it, do a good deed by adopting. I really get that there are bad people out there, so *some* screening/fee does make sense, and I get that the people running the rescues (usually) only want what's best for the animals. But I'm just seeing it from my side of things, and if I think what the shelter asks is unreasonable, I have other options. I don't want to beg to "rescue" an animal when I can easily get one elsewhere.

I currently have three cats. One I got from a rescue, so she was spayed/microchipped before I got to keep her, and I had to sign a short contract. I wasn't all that happy with some of the language, but I was a lot younger and I really wanted this particular cat, so I went with it. (Haven't had a problem.) And the fee was like $75 and included the spay/chip, so I thought that was totally reasonable. My other two cats were kittens of a stray that a friend's family ended up with, so they were free. They've all been equally great. With cats in particular, it's so incredibly easy to get a totally free kitten, I think rescues should be very careful about demanding too much if they actually want to find the cats homes. With purebred dogs, it's a different story entirely, I'd guess. The demand is great enough that rescues can be much more choosy. (I would assume.) It's important to know the value of your product.

The only dog I ever had was a rottie. She was a runt, and we got her from an ad in the paper (back when that was still a thing) from someone in town who'd bred their two purebred rotties. No contract, no guarantees, great price. I loved her to pieces. She was a huge baby. I once saw her flinch when a feather on the ground was lightly blown by the wind.

I do need to correct myself on one thing: I checked with my dad, and apparently he did do a co-ownership deal with a dog previously, decades ago, when I was very, very young. Sounds like the co-ownership only lasted until she was spayed (they bred her once, I think, and it did not go well). And that was back when he was more into AKC/confirmation, so I wonder if this is more common in those circles.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 19, 2020, 12:51:39 PM
I think the MSPCA shelter will do a sliding scale if need be. We paid $80 for the male and twice that for the female. I'm not sure what they are charging now but fixing a rabbit can be $300-$400 and it's hard to find a vet, small animal anesthesia is tricky. We adopted the female first and I had to prove I was a home owner (people try to get pets when it's against their rent agreement) and show pictures of the cage we had and stuff. When we got the boy a couple of years later we did bunny speed dating and brought the girl in to meet some other buns. They were a little less picky about my credentials as they had me in their system and they saw we had taken good care of the first one.

Sometimes they get overrun with bunnies in the fall and will adopt them out free for the month of October but we didn't ever time it right for that. I didn't mind giving them the money though, it's obvious when you are up there that they need every cent they can get. They also sell hay there for seven bucks for a huge flake but I don't get up there often enough anymore to buy it. When the kids were little we went all the time to see the animals. Always a lot of pitbulls in the dog area. One time we were there and animal control showed up with seven pitbulls in the van. Dog fighting is still a problem around here.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 19, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
It's important to know the value of your product.

As to the value of a dog coming from a decent rescue organization - To spay a large dog like a Rottweiler is going to cost hundreds these days. You aren't going to walk in and out of a vet office in this area for less than a $50 office visit fee. So for the rescue fee you get a dog that's spayed/neutered, microchipped, up to date on vaccines, and evaluated as to suitability for the adopter's particular situation at the minimum. Yes, of course, there are crummy rescues just like there are crummy breeders. You always do have to do a little research to be sure you're dealing with someone ethical.

More than that, I believe a lot of the people who go to rescues realize there's a charitable factor. They must because they later make donations. I know our group got puppies through parvo and had dogs in foster homes for months during heartworm treatment. One dog had several surgeries for a broken leg that had been neglected so long the bone was infected. Another had a human dentist do root canals and a shortening procedure on canine teeth that drove into the roof of his mouth because of a bad bite (the cheap alternative is to pull the teeth, and without them, the tongue hangs out). We had dogs that needed and got orthopedic procedures such as ACL surgery. Yes, we found vets who gave us discounts, but these are still expensive procedures.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 20, 2020, 08:54:32 AM
It's important to know the value of your product.

As to the value of a dog coming from a decent rescue organization - To spay a large dog like a Rottweiler is going to cost hundreds these days. You aren't going to walk in and out of a vet office in this area for less than a $50 office visit fee. So for the rescue fee you get a dog that's spayed/neutered, microchipped, up to date on vaccines, and evaluated as to suitability for the adopter's particular situation at the minimum. Yes, of course, there are crummy rescues just like there are crummy breeders. You always do have to do a little research to be sure you're dealing with someone ethical.

I was speaking more to the breed. If you've got a purebred dog, as a buyer/adopter, then charging a few/several hundred dollars for an adoption fee is more reasonable, since it's in comparison to the thousands a breeder would charge. (Unless the rescue *is* charging $1,000+, in which case I think that's getting into 'unreasonable' territory for an adoption fee. The value of the dog itself is higher than a mutt would be.

Personally (and I have close friends who feel differently than this about me), I would not consider the cost of prior surgeries or care into what I considered an acceptable adoption fee for an animal. As far as I'm concerned, if you're the prior owner (whether an individual or an organization), it's your decision and your responsibility to get the animal whatever you care you think it needs. When you sell it, you're selling it as-is, and I'm buying it in the condition it's currently in. If you're selling me a healthy dog, it's probably not going to matter a great deal to me whether it's always been healthy or whether it's had some serious health issue that cost thousands of dollars for you to correct. The value to me is the same, because I'm judging the value based on the current condition of the animal, not the investment you made in it. So charging extra because the dog had to have surgeries (if that's what a rescue does) is essentially asking the buyer to reimburse the seller for decisions made by the seller before the buyer was even involved, and I think that's rather silly. I consider the rescue organization the owner of the dog for as long as they legally own the dog, not simply a caretaker on behalf of some potential future buyer.

And yes, I do see it from the rescue's POV, that they have expenses and they'd like to make that money back. I just don't think it's my responsibility as the potential buyer to do that. (But like I said, I know people who feel differently.)

Having the animal already spayed/neutered would be a benefit to me that I'd take into consideration when looking at the adoption fee, but if it's just the full price of a spay/neuter added onto whatever the adoption fee would otherwise be (or when I can subtract the usual price of that procedure from the fee and still come up with a number I find unreasonable as an adoption fee), I wouldn't be so okay with that. Because if it's not included prior to me taking ownership and without a significant increase in the fee to me, it's useful. If it's full-price added on top, I'd rather take the dog un-fixed and take it to my own vet to have the procedure done by a vet I choose at a price I pre-approve.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 20, 2020, 09:53:11 AM
I was speaking more to the breed. If you've got a purebred dog, as a buyer/adopter, then charging a few/several hundred dollars for an adoption fee is more reasonable, since it's in comparison to the thousands a breeder would charge. (Unless the rescue *is* charging $1,000+, in which case I think that's getting into 'unreasonable' territory for an adoption fee. The value of the dog itself is higher than a mutt would be.

Personally (and I have close friends who feel differently than this about me), I would not consider the cost of prior surgeries or care into what I considered an acceptable adoption fee for an animal.

As someone who was heavily involved in a rescue group and who has fostered and adopted rescues and loved them dearly, I hate admitting this, but will. Very few dogs that come from purebred rescues are quality examples of their breed. When you think about it, it makes sense, the quality dogs come from breeders who have those restrictive contracts you don't like and are far less likely to end up homeless. I also don't think most people who adopt from rescues do it for the snob factor of having a purebred. They do it because they like the appearance of that breed and think the traits of that breed will suit them. Not saying that's universal, but it's common.

And I did not mean any individual adopter should be or is charged for prior surgeries and care in adopting the dog, but that the rescue has to have a fee that makes its ongoing existence possible. Unlike a tax-supported city or county shelter, it has to have an adoption fee that covers costs, although donations and grants can also be factored in. The larger the rescue organization the more likely it is to apply for and receive grants and be able to count on donations.

I think there's no more use in the two of us discussing this. Our basic feelings about the subject are just too different.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 20, 2020, 12:50:18 PM
I think there's no more use in the two of us discussing this. Our basic feelings about the subject are just too different.

I mean, it's okay to discuss things we disagree on, right? Isn't that how we learn? Just because I may have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean I'm not listening to opposing viewpoints. I don't really think all discussions need to end in either "convince someone to change their mind" or "give up".
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 20, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
I mean, it's okay to discuss things we disagree on, right? Isn't that how we learn? Just because I may have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean I'm not listening to opposing viewpoints. I don't really think all discussions need to end in either "convince someone to change their mind" or "give up".

I sincerely doubt if one mind has ever been changed by an internet argument. My personal theory is you state your case, maybe make one rebuttal, and then stop. We've already gone beyond that. I know your position, you know mine.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Shawna on May 20, 2020, 01:17:25 PM
I mean, it's okay to discuss things we disagree on, right? Isn't that how we learn? Just because I may have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean I'm not listening to opposing viewpoints. I don't really think all discussions need to end in either "convince someone to change their mind" or "give up".

I sincerely doubt if one mind has ever been changed by an internet argument. My personal theory is you state your case, maybe make one rebuttal, and then stop. We've already gone beyond that. I know your position, you know mine.

My point was kind of that we shouldn't have to be trying to change each other's minds to have an interesting discussion. But fair enough. I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 21, 2020, 03:27:00 PM
We have seven dogs, all pure bred collies, old style, IOW large and strong. My wife and I have been quite careful during this virus mess because if anything happens to us, who's going to take care of and feed our children? Toss in the fact that the youngest pair are now 8 years, oldest three 14, and the problems would grow exponentially.

There are no pet adoption agencies in this AO, period. The State from time to time sweeps the street dogs up, neuters those deemed viable, vaccinates them and turns them back out on the street with an ear tag which we joke is their 'propeeska', their official Sevastopol registration.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 21, 2020, 07:23:23 PM
We have seven dogs, all pure bred collies, old style, IOW large and strong. My wife and I have been quite careful during this virus mess because if anything happens to us, who's going to take care of and feed our children? Toss in the fact that the youngest pair are now 8 years, oldest three 14, and the problems would grow exponentially.

Your dogs must be like the collies I remember from my childhood and what I pictured when I read all of Albert Payson Terhune's books. Much more to my taste than what I see in the show ring these days.

Stay safe. I have a feeling I wouldn't be working as hard as I am at being lockdown compliant if it was just a matter of my age. Even though I think I have my dogs covered now, there's still that what if... kind of worry. It's a sad relief that I no longer have a horse to worry about.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 21, 2020, 08:01:44 PM
We have 3 m walls around our little compound, not to keep people out but to keep our boys in. The boys generally measure 2.5 m tip of nose to tip of tail so 2 meters to them is a speed bump. My wife is 147 cm and our youngest, Aleksandr, can put his paws on her shoulders and look down at her. We are, or were, keeping the old blood lines going. Our blue girl Sophia is the finest blue in all Russia and Ukraine, but sadly, like many blues, she is barren.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 22, 2020, 09:10:36 AM
We have 3 m walls around our little compound, not to keep people out but to keep our boys in. The boys generally measure 2.5 m tip of nose to tip of tail so 2 meters to them is a speed bump. My wife is 147 cm and our youngest, Aleksandr, can put his paws on her shoulders and look down at her. We are, or were, keeping the old blood lines going. Our blue girl Sophia is the finest blue in all Russia and Ukraine, but sadly, like many blues, she is barren.

Oh, that's too bad about your girl and blue collies in general. I think they're called merle in U.S., or is that an old fashioned term?

I have Rottweilers, but only bitches, so 85 pounds and maybe 23 inches tall, and my yard is fenced with 5-1/2' wire mesh. I've never had any dog jump the fence, but I did have one rescue I fostered climb it and another persistently dug under. The climber went to a home with 6' chainlink that didn't have reinforcing posts with a cross bar she could use to climb at corners. The digger went to a home with underground electric backing up physical fence.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 22, 2020, 02:32:14 PM
Yes, officially it's blue merle, but often referred to simply as 'blues'.

My hat is off to you for fostering dogs, that is a difficult and often thankless task.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 22, 2020, 03:42:49 PM
Yes, officially it's blue merle, but often referred to simply as 'blues'.

My hat is off to you for fostering dogs, that is a difficult and often thankless task.

Can't say I ever had regrets about any of the dogs. It was the people who burnt me out. I expected to be upset by the ones who neglect, abuse, and dump dogs - or even give them up just because they're inconvenient. What was stunning was the people who apply to adopt who lie in every way imaginable. Just as a for instance:

Call to reference of an adoption applicant, a neighbor:

Me: Do you think Ms. ________ would be a good home for a dog?

Neighbor: Uh. [Obvious reluctance to answer. Finally] Will she know what I said?

Me: Absolutely not. Whatever we decide, we never give reasons.

Neighbor: I wouldn't let that woman have a pet rock.

Conversation continues to how applicant neglected previous dog.


How about this one? Young man submits application saying he owns house where he now lives. Friend who is given as a reference tells me all about how this applicant lived in his car for a while last year when he had a fight with his father. County records on internet show sure enough, the parents own the house the applicant claimed was his.

This is from people these liars themselves presumably listed because they were their best hope for a good reference.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Jeff Tanyard on May 22, 2020, 05:11:55 PM
According to Led Zeppelin, there ain't no companion like a blue-eyed merle.


Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 22, 2020, 06:02:44 PM
Can't say I ever had regrets about any of the dogs. It was the people who burnt me out. I expected to be upset by the ones who neglect, abuse, and dump dogs - or even give them up just because they're inconvenient. What was stunning was the people who apply to adopt who lie in every way imaginable. Just as a for instance:
Call to reference of an adoption applicant, a neighbor:
Me: Do you think Ms. ________ would be a good home for a dog?
Neighbor: Uh. [Obvious reluctance to answer. Finally] Will she know what I said?
Me: Absolutely not. Whatever we decide, we never give reasons.
Neighbor: I wouldn't let that woman have a pet rock.
Conversation continues to how applicant neglected previous dog.
How about this one? Young man submits application saying he owns house where he now lives. Friend who is given as a reference tells me all about how this applicant lived in his car for a while last year when he had a fight with his father. County records on internet show sure enough, the parents own the house the applicant claimed was his.
This is from people these liars themselves presumably listed because they were their best hope for a good reference.

Two legs can be horribly cruel. It would break your heart to be in this village the first week of September when all the tourists will children go home and dump out the dogs and cats they kept for summer to amuse the youngsters. Last year and the year before, due to complaints from the locals several were caught at they left and asked by Militsiya where their dog or cat was. Big problems for them at that moment, but it did nothing for the poor dogs and cats just dumped out the door.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on May 22, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
Yeah, my husband's uncle adopted two rescue beagles that had been left in the garage when the owners moved. Just drove away. The neighbors knew they moved, heard the dogs barking, peeked in the garage and then called the police.

I spent about four half days in the biggest shelter around here when we adopted our two rabbits and heard things on surrender day that made me want to smack people upside the head with a two by four. I know someone who worked there regularly and she cried on the way home from work just about every day.

On the upside, the pictures of the collies are beautiful.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on May 22, 2020, 09:15:36 PM
Two legs can be horribly cruel. It would break your heart to be in this village the first week of September when all the tourists will children go home and dump out the dogs and cats they kept for summer to amuse the youngsters. Last year and the year before, due to complaints from the locals several were caught at they left and asked by Militsiya where their dog or cat was. Big problems for them at that moment, but it did nothing for the poor dogs and cats just dumped out the door.

It happens in areas here in the U.S. that have summer people too. On the plus side, more and more jurisdictions are passing tougher and tougher animal cruelty laws with tougher and tougher penalties, that is, some kinds of animal cruelty are now felonies in some jurisdictions.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 22, 2020, 09:26:43 PM
Yeah, my husband's uncle adopted two rescue beagles that had been left in the garage when the owners moved. Just drove away. The neighbors knew they moved, heard the dogs barking, peeked in the garage and then called the police.

I spent about four half days in the biggest shelter around here when we adopted our two rabbits and heard things on surrender day that made me want to smack people upside the head with a two by four. I know someone who worked there regularly and she cried on the way home from work just about every day.

On the upside, the pictures of the collies are beautiful.

I can only imagine the heartbreak of working for such an agency. I'd probably be shooting some of the 'clients' for absolute idiocy five minutes in to my first day.

Thanks for the compliments on our children. We don't breed anymore but we'll keep those we have come Hades or high water. We will get another blue girl this late fall and give her to Sophia to raise. Sophia raised Alik and his sister Ella when their mother Plyushya got tired of the 'mommy' gig, she even produced milk for them, which is not uncommon. To this day, if either Alik or Ella act up all she has to do is give them 'the look' and they stop instantly, even though both of them are considerably larger than Sofik.

Images are Melik and Manya in attack mode, they were huge, more than 2.5 m tip of nose to end of tail, and trained to guard and if needs be, to attack. And the three hooligans, Sophia, Ye'katarina and Zychkya.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on May 26, 2020, 04:45:29 AM
those collies are gorgeous. you must spend a lot of time brushing them.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on May 26, 2020, 05:36:45 AM
Those collies are gorgeous. you must spend a lot of time brushing them.

Thank you for the compliments of our children. They all get brushed at least once a week depending on their coats. Sophia, the blue, gets brushed twice a week, neither my wife, who has bred collies for 25 years, nor I, and I've been around dogs all my life, have ever seen a dog with hair like hers. While all the others lose some of their coats in spring Sophia does not, she looks like a Siberian musk ox year 'round. My wife saves all the hair she brushes out and gives it to a friend of hers who makes back pads from said fir. Personal experience, the pads from dog hair do work if one has back problems.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on July 16, 2020, 05:10:34 AM
Well, it has been my most sincere wish that I wouldn't have to take one of my dogs to the vet until this virus thing is settled enough that they're allowing people inside the clinic with the dog again. However, my younger Rottie, Teagan, developed a lump on a hind leg I didn't dare ignore it, so we were off to the vet this morning.

I HATE letting other people handle my dogs, and sure enough, some tech comes to the car and opens the door, ignoring the leash I had attached to dog and hanging partly outside the closed door and fumbling around to get some nylon thingie attached. (If you've never tried to hang onto a pulling 90-pound Rottweiler with a nylon leash, you have avoided a painful experience that usually makes the human let go. And yes, my obedience trained girl gets so excited she pulls in circumstances like this, especially after not going anywhere for months.) If Teagan got loose in that area, that tech would find out new things about social distancing as I jumped out of the car and bowled her over to get to the dog myself.

No disaster today so far. I still have to wait for them to deliver her back to me in an hour or two, since evidently enough people are avoiding bringing in pets that not only did I get this 9 a.m. appointment when I only called yesterday, but they were able to do the removal this morning too. Now, assuming I get Teagan back without drama, I get to wait for the lab report on whether the thing was dangerous or not. The vet says she believes she got clean margins.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on July 16, 2020, 05:17:54 AM
Good luck with the pickup and the margins.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on July 16, 2020, 05:32:24 AM
Well, it has been my most sincere wish that I wouldn't have to take one of my dogs to the vet until this virus thing is settled enough that they're allowing people inside the clinic with the dog again. However, my younger Rottie, Teagan, developed a lump on a hind leg I didn't dare ignore it, so we were off to the vet this morning.

No disaster today so far. I still have to wait for them to deliver her back to me in an hour or two, since evidently enough people are avoiding bringing in pets that not only did I get this 9 a.m. appointment when I only called yesterday, but they were able to do the removal this morning too. Now, assuming I get Teagan back without drama, I get to wait for the lab report on whether the thing was dangerous or not. The vet says she believes she got clean margins.

Please do keep us in the loop concerning Teagan. I hope all works out well and she gets a clean bill of health after this ordeal.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on July 16, 2020, 07:36:22 AM
Thanks for the good wishes. She's home in one piece now - tired and unhappy but home and finally settled down and sleeping. Vet says lab report in 2-4 days.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on July 16, 2020, 08:05:06 AM
I'm glad were able to get Teagan taken care of. Here's hoping for a good report.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on July 24, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
Well, nothing's ever easy, is it?

The pathology report came back on Teagan on Tuesday, and the vet read it to me. It included the phrase "benign cancerous" something or other (I was so stunned by the benign cancerous bit I didn't hear much more). The vet told me that "cancerous" was just the way any abnormal cell growth is described. Really? Skin tags are described as cancerous? I did some looking around on the internet that day and couldn't fine one place where "cancerous" isn't synonymous with "malignant." So what exactly would benign malignant mean? They couldn't decide?

So I left the vet a message saying I'd like her to get in touch with the lab and get some clarification. Today was a bandage change day. Actually they just left the leg naked. It's healing well. I asked for and got a copy of the pathology report, and what I got doesn't contain the inexplicable phrase. Haven't heard from the vet yet, but my guess is she did ask for a clarification. I hope she didn't just ask for a report without words that scare the owner.

They say it's a melanocytoma and is benign and the margins were clear and the surgery "is expected to be curative."

From a little more research, I think the original language is because while 85% of these things are benign, the other percent are malignant, and it's hard to tell the difference. So it was originally a waffle and revised to be more encouraging. Better than melanoma or mast cell, but still....
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on July 24, 2020, 09:33:22 AM
I'm just guessing here but benign cancerous, could mean it could turn into cancer at some point. Benign by itself means it won't. My friends father-in-law had stage four benign esophageal cancer. I didn't know benign had stages, but it does.

Congratulations on the clear margins. That's great.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on July 24, 2020, 10:31:12 AM
Phew!! Although I'm sure you could have done without the terrifying language.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on July 24, 2020, 12:32:47 PM
The problem is being a suspicious sort, I wonder if the revised report leaving out the scary language is a "pacify the upset old lady who owns dog" or the pathologist's real opinion. I'm one of those who can always find something to worry about. In this case, only time will tell. Rotties are very cancer prone, but she's only 5 and I didn't expect this kind of thing for at least another 4 years.

Thanks for all the good wishes, everyone. I shall try to cling to the "benign" in the report that's now without the contradictory second adjective.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on July 24, 2020, 09:59:29 PM
Cling to the fact that they got all of it. That's what "clear margins" means. Otherwise they'd be going back in for more surgery. Anyway, I hope she's back to her usual self real soon.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: wildcreature on August 09, 2020, 05:58:32 PM
And.... My biggest worry in all this lockdown mess is for my dogs. I lost my oldest dog and my horse in early February, and while I mourned them like all those losses, there was also more than a little relief. Just a week or two later I was no longer sure I could get an equine vet or body disposal people to the house, and since Kate, my horse, was 35 (kind of like a 100-year-old person), I hadn't been buying feed in quantities but only a month at a time for at least the last 5 years, which means there would also have been the getting-feed problem.

The dog, Victor, was also old enough illness and treatment would be a concern. I understand small animal vets are still operating, but in a way I really, really would not like to deal with, especially for end of life treatment. So he had an ultrasound, bloodwork, etc., when he began to go downhill and like Kate, was euthanized just before the lockdown.

But my other two girls - if I'm hospitalized, what's going to happen to them? My friends are all dog people, which is to say they already have their own. I know, assuming her health holds, the breeder of Story, the older dog, would take her and care for her in every way, and since she co-owns, no authority could stop her from doing that, assuming her health holds.

The younger dog's breeder also co-owns, but she no longer lives close. It was a relief to have Janine, Story's breeder, tell me she'd take Teagan too if it came to that. At the first sign of any symptom, I'll send her a power of attorney for Teagan ASAP.

Crazy though it may be. We very recently adopted a rescue dog. We've called her Phoenix. She was transported in from Hawaii. We live in Wa. State. She is about 2 1/2 and in excellent health. She is very fearful. Scared of everything. She is improving each day, thankfully. We've had one vet visit and don't need another until March.

There is an extreme lack of dogs available for adoption here which is a good thing. If we both got sick I think we'd have to return the dog to the rescue. They are no kill. I'm trusting a vaccine will be available soon. We got a request in the mail to volunteer to be guinea pigs. We did but haven't been called yet. I do know that the results so far on the research have been good  and I'm hoping there will be a usable vaccine between Oct and New Years. My daughter's cat got corona virus per the vet. We have not been in physical contact at all. Cat is recovering.

We are being very careful in this community - only medical visits and safe dog walking. We don't even go to the grocery store. :dog1:
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on August 09, 2020, 10:49:08 PM
And.... My biggest worry in all this lockdown mess is for my dogs. I lost my oldest dog and my horse in early February, and while I mourned them like all those losses, there was also more than a little relief. Just a week or two later I was no longer sure I could get an equine vet or body disposal people to the house, and since Kate, my horse, was 35 (kind of like a 100-year-old person), I hadn't been buying feed in quantities but only a month at a time for at least the last 5 years, which means there would also have been the getting-feed problem.

The dog, Victor, was also old enough illness and treatment would be a concern. I understand small animal vets are still operating, but in a way I really, really would not like to deal with, especially for end of life treatment. So he had an ultrasound, bloodwork, etc., when he began to go downhill and like Kate, was euthanized just before the lockdown.

But my other two girls - if I'm hospitalized, what's going to happen to them? My friends are all dog people, which is to say they already have their own. I know, assuming her health holds, the breeder of Story, the older dog, would take her and care for her in every way, and since she co-owns, no authority could stop her from doing that, assuming her health holds.

The younger dog's breeder also co-owns, but she no longer lives close. It was a relief to have Janine, Story's breeder, tell me she'd take Teagan too if it came to that. At the first sign of any symptom, I'll send her a power of attorney for Teagan ASAP.

Crazy though it may be. We very recently adopted a rescue dog. We've called her Phoenix. She was transported in from Hawaii. We live in Wa. State. She is about 2 1/2 and in excellent health. She is very fearful. Scared of everything. She is improving each day, thankfully. We've had one vet visit and don't need another until March.

There is an extreme lack of dogs available for adoption here which is a good thing. If we both got sick I think we'd have to return the dog to the rescue. They are no kill. I'm trusting a vaccine will be available soon. We got a request in the mail to volunteer to be guinea pigs. We did but haven't been called yet. I do know that the results so far on the research have been good  and I'm hoping there will be a usable vaccine between Oct and New Years. My daughter's cat got corona virus per the vet. We have not been in physical contact at all. Cat is recovering.

We are being very careful in this community - only medical visits and safe dog walking. We don't even go to the grocery store. :dog1:

A shelter Near here has been completely emptied out. I guess people are trying to keep their kids busy during lockdown. I only hope when people start going back to work they don't turn the pets in.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on August 10, 2020, 06:31:33 AM
A shelter Near here has been completely emptied out. I guess people are trying to keep their kids busy during lockdown. I only hope when people start going back to work they don't turn the pets in.

From what I hear shelters all over the U.S. have been emptied out, and I too wonder what will happen when people go back to work and kids back to school. I hope most of these adopters are preparing their new pets for time alone. My dogs are used to my retired self being home all the time, but they can be left for a day when I'm off somewhere (which hasn't happened since February, of course).

I do see signs that the lockdown is affecting mine, though. They get close to hysterical with excitement over any change in the stay at home routine. Teagan was overjoyed to go to the vet. I take Story with me when I shop if it's cool enough to leave her in the car and I'm going somewhere I know there's parking in shade (hasn't happened these last few weeks).
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on August 10, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
A shelter Near here has been completely emptied out. I guess people are trying to keep their kids busy during lockdown. I only hope when people start going back to work they don't turn the pets in.

From what I hear shelters all over the U.S. have been emptied out, and I too wonder what will happen when people go back to work and kids back to school. I hope most of these adopters are preparing their new pets for time alone. My dogs are used to my retired self being home all the time, but they can be left for a day when I'm off somewhere (which hasn't happened since February, of course).

I do see signs that the lockdown is affecting mine, though. They get close to hysterical with excitement over any change in the stay at home routine. Teagan was overjoyed to go to the vet. I take Story with me when I shop if it's cool enough to leave her in the car and I'm going somewhere I know there's parking in shade (hasn't happened these last few weeks).

When I was in the hospital for two months, Mikey did not do well, even though my grandson was with him and taking care of him all day. He forgot his house training, and has never gotten back to a normal routine of eating times.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on September 27, 2020, 02:57:50 AM
I've seen references to this in several places:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/world/europe/finland-dogs-airport-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/world/europe/finland-dogs-airport-coronavirus.html)

It seems like a really helpful development - quick, highly accurate detection and low chance of the detectors catching the disease.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on September 27, 2020, 03:09:28 AM
I've seen references to this in several places:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/world/europe/finland-dogs-airport-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/world/europe/finland-dogs-airport-coronavirus.html)

It seems like a really helpful development - quick, highly accurate detection and low chance of the detectors catching the disease.

The Power of the Paw!
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on September 27, 2020, 03:41:21 AM
I know they are pretty amazing. We once watched a dog find a planted suitcase containing explosive scent at the airport. The dog had sniffed over 4000 bags that day and came up empty and was feeling pretty sad about it, so the trainers set a bag by the curb so he could find it and they could tell him he did a good job.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on October 14, 2020, 03:01:59 AM
Our youngest red girl Ella developed a problem. With the current mess with the virus our vet was dragooned back to service some months ago, he's one of very few who does not only service dogs but also horses. With them never really stopping mounted and foot patrols along our borders, he's been a busy lad.

Ella finished her days about two weeks ago and since there was no suitable gentleman available in the area, plus she is eight years and that would be pushing the envelope, she had zero activity reproductive wise regardless of old Ruslan and her brother Aleksandr desiring otherwise. For whatever reason she was suddenly ill last Friday morning, lethargic and listless. By Saturday morning she was worsening by the hour so a call was made to vet. As luck would have it he was on a 36 hour service rotation and would not be available until Sunday after 13:00.

As she got progressively worse, we after speaking to vet via commo link decided to take her to Hospital Sunday morning for a sonogram to see what gives, she could keep nothing down, not even water, and was in obvious pain. Vet told VCO what meds to give her for pain and such. Sunday morning we scrapped the sonogram, she began to bleed so we knew it was a problem with her girl machinery. Vet arrived at 13:01 with his field hospital truck and a Medical Sister and ten minutes later Ella was sedated thoroughly. Vet, Sister and VCO did the operation, took about an hour and a half, and vet said he's never seen such an infection that was so virulent, told me she was a mess inside and he don't know why with her lack of activity. However, she did not improve through the afternoon and evening albeit quite lethargic from the meds and such. Vet returned this afternoon, examined her thoroughly and hit her with some pretty powerful antibiotics. Miracle cure, while she's not really 'up and about' she is vastly improved and will live.

On his way out today vet nabbed K'sen'ya and gave her the booster for her rabies vaccination. Poor K'sen'ya, she was comfortably ensconced in our little girls arms when this big man suddenly grabbed her, gave her the shot and put her back in our girl's arms in about 3 seconds. She kind of looked around surprised and from the look on her face her thoughts were 'what the h//l did I do and what the h//l was that???'.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on October 14, 2020, 03:31:54 AM
I hope the dog recovers okay, and quickly.

In happier dog news, I went to pick up something (Craigslist) today and got to pet a very friendly Bernese Mountain Dog. That's my husband's number one choice for a dog, if we were to get a dog, which we are NOT.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 14, 2020, 03:50:42 AM
We did not have a happy six months check up with the vet yesterday. Mikey was due for his heartworm shot and I don't think he got it. He also didn't get refill for his flea medicine.

I filled out the forms and sent my granddaughter to drop off Mikey since I can't drive. My grandson went to pick him up and came home with $47 worth of special food since his liver function was supposedly elevated. I don't believe a word of it. My Angelo had an elevated liver function but he was 12 years old. Mikey is four. I think they just want to sell this expensive food.

I have to call them and get them to schedule Mikey's heartworm shot immediately and refill his flea medicine. If I could have been there, I would have made sure Mikey was well taken care of.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on October 14, 2020, 04:36:17 AM
That's too bad. You need to have 100% faith in your vet in these times when you can't go in with them. I had to take one of our bunnies in a few months ago and our vet came in on her day off because her partner doesn't do exotics. I hope you can get Mikey's shot soon.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on October 14, 2020, 06:04:34 AM
So Ella had a pyometra? I'm glad she's bouncing back after the surgery and with the meds.

I've done a good many Bernese Mountain Dog drafting tests with my Rotties. Their competitions are open to other breeds. They truly are happy dogs that make you smile just being around them.

Maggie Ann, I hope you get it straight with the vet. Liver problems would usually be caught by a blood test if values were off. Did Mikey have a blood test?
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 14, 2020, 09:34:55 AM
So Ella had a pyometra? I'm glad she's bouncing back after the surgery and with the meds.

I've done a good many Bernese Mountain Dog drafting tests with my Rotties. Their competitions are open to other breeds. They truly are happy dogs that make you smile just being around them.

Maggie Ann, I hope you get it straight with the vet. Liver problems would usually be caught by a blood test if values were off. Did Mikey have a blood test?

I love Bernese Mountain dogs but they wouldn't be happy in FL.

I spoke to Banfield. She said they emailed the papers to me. Unfortunately I have not been able to get into my email for four days. It's on my list to call AT&T about that.

He had the shot but I don't know if he had blood work. They said they would send the paperwork to my alternate email address but it's been several hours and I haven't gotten it yet. Grandson is going to pick up the flea meds tomorrow and they said they would have the printouts for him as well.

It's just suspicious that my previous dog had liver problems and now they are saying that Mikey has the same problem.

At least he had the heartworm shot.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 14, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
Our youngest red girl Ella developed a problem. With the current mess with the virus our vet was dragooned back to service some months ago, he's one of very few who does not only service dogs but also horses. With them never really stopping mounted and foot patrols along our borders, he's been a busy lad.

Ella finished her days about two weeks ago and since there was no suitable gentleman available in the area, plus she is eight years and that would be pushing the envelope, she had zero activity reproductive wise regardless of old Ruslan and her brother Aleksandr desiring otherwise. For whatever reason she was suddenly ill last Friday morning, lethargic and listless. By Saturday morning she was worsening by the hour so a call was made to vet. As luck would have it he was on a 36 hour service rotation and would not be available until Sunday after 13:00.

As she got progressively worse, we after speaking to vet via commo link decided to take her to Hospital Sunday morning for a sonogram to see what gives, she could keep nothing down, not even water, and was in obvious pain. Vet told VCO what meds to give her for pain and such. Sunday morning we scrapped the sonogram, she began to bleed so we knew it was a problem with her girl machinery. Vet arrived at 13:01 with his field hospital truck and a Medical Sister and ten minutes later Ella was sedated thoroughly. Vet, Sister and VCO did the operation, took about an hour and a half, and vet said he's never seen such an infection that was so virulent, told me she was a mess inside and he don't know why with her lack of activity. However, she did not improve through the afternoon and evening albeit quite lethargic from the meds and such. Vet returned this afternoon, examined her thoroughly and hit her with some pretty powerful antibiotics. Miracle cure, while she's not really 'up and about' she is vastly improved and will live.

On his way out today vet nabbed K'sen'ya and gave her the booster for her rabies vaccination. Poor K'sen'ya, she was comfortably ensconced in our little girls arms when this big man suddenly grabbed her, gave her the shot and put her back in our girl's arms in about 3 seconds. She kind of looked around surprised and from the look on her face her thoughts were 'what the h//l did I do and what the h//l was that???'.

So glad Ella is on the mend. Your dogs are all very beautiful.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on October 15, 2020, 02:19:30 AM
Thank you for your compliments about our dogs. Ella is basically no change today, not better but not worse, lethargic and flat won't eat. We'll see what the morrow brings and if no improvement, vet will have to come again. Methinks full blood workup and sonogram will be in order, something ain't right, she's young and strong.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on October 15, 2020, 03:23:50 AM

I love Bernese Mountain dogs but they wouldn't be happy in FL.

Or Swiss Mountain dogs, or Pyrenees. Any others? Samoyeds, oh so fluffy. We had a couple of those across the street from us one winter and I loved to bury my hands up to my wrists in their fur.

My aunt is on her 4th Caine terrier so I guess they are good Florida dogs.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 15, 2020, 03:48:13 AM
I got tired of people looking at Mikey and asking, "What is he?" with a puzzled frown on their faces. I had to do his DNA so that now I can answer them.

50% Chihuahua
25% miniature poodle
12 1/2% Maltese
12 1/2% companion/terrier

He's a tricolor (tan, beige, white) and only weighs 14 pounds. He's got long, curly fur, but not as long as a Maltese or as curly as a poodle. He loves to lay out in the sun.

He loves to talk to me and if he's sitting beside me or laying beside me in bed, he has to put one paw on me to make sure I'm there.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: notthatamanda on October 15, 2020, 04:57:59 AM
I have a friend who has a rescue and when people ask her "What kind of dog is she?" she says, "Brown."

We met a guy with a dog that looked like a golden retriever head on a corgi body with the short corgi legs and the long golden hair. I said it looked like a "Gorgi" and he liked it.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 15, 2020, 06:49:33 AM
I have a friend who has a rescue and when people ask her "What kind of dog is she?" she says, "Brown."

We met a guy with a dog that looked like a golden retriever head on a corgi body with the short corgi legs and the long golden hair. I said it looked like a "Gorgi" and he liked it.

Good answer!
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on October 22, 2020, 05:40:24 AM
Ella will live. She took a decided turn for the worse on the 16th, by the next day she was dying slowly but surely. Vet was at his wit's end as was VCO, Ella's heart was failing with all that entails, she couldn't even hold her head up as she lay on her bed. Our oldest daughter is still with us, we pulled levers and had her leave extended at her request, the intended purpose of her leave kind of fell by the wayside with Ella being so ill. She is not a Doktor but she is a trained and resourceful Field Medical Sister and is giant help with Ella and the other dogs and our youngest daughter as VCO and I concentrated on Ella.

So two days ago we five, Doktor, his Medical Sister, VCO, our daughter and me, are sitting on the floor next to Ella and watching her fade away when our daughter looked at the IV running in Ella and looked at the medicine Doktor had just injected in to the bottle. She looked puzzled and asked Vet why he was giving her that medicine. Vet said it was standard protocol for heart problems with dogs.

She thought for a moment, than asked why they are not giving Ella my heart meds (she knows what I take and why), which are totally different and much more strong. Vet says they are not certified for dogs. I've never seen that girl angry like she was at that instant and she gave Doktor Holy What For and told VCO to bring two of my pills. Vet says Ella can't keep them down, she told Vet to STFU and give her the pills, nothing ventured nothing gained and Ella was dying in our arms. It took her three tries in over two hours to get them in Ella but the third try was the charm and Ella managed to keep the pills, which are tiny, down. Our beautiful daughter then gave Doktor a diatribe of what she goes through treating the wounded in the never ending fighting in Novorossiya and what she has to make do with and improvise while treating wounded boys and lacking almost everything. Doktor tried to defend himself and mentioned what he went through in both Chechnya Wars (which I knew, we've had a vodka or three over the years and chatted), our girl told him that was nothing compared to what she does and she has learned the hard way to make due and as needed improvise. Doktor waved the white flag and surrendered.

Within hours Ella improved and now, two days later, Ella is up and active and getting my meds three times a day for the duration. She is still ill but improving by the hour, she is eating and her bodily functions, which had shut down, are working normally. Today she is walking in normal fashion (she looks a little silly in her body suit/bandage with tying bows). As stated, she will live. As an aside, our youngest daughter was with us always during this treatment cycle except when she was in school, she needs to know Life as it really is. She was very afraid that Ella would 'leave us'.

This morning, after Ella's dawn walk, our older daughter stated that she has to go back to service. I made mention that she has a young man to see who she has had no time for in the last days, she looked a little woebegone and said she must return, she is needed. She also mentioned that her young man leaves for deployment very shortly. I asked her how many days extended leave she wants, she said two, I made the communications and all is arranged. The young man will pick her up tomorrow at 07:00, take her for breakfast at an el primo and privat facility in City Center and the two will spend the day together, his officer and I have arranged a car and driver and guard for them. I told both of them that she must be back to our house by 19:30 and not a minute later. Our daughter laughed when told of the arrangements and said 'who is the guard for, me or him?'. I told her for both of you, to protect you from him and him from you, but when you return tomorrow eventide your mother and I and you two will have some time to enjoy some good wine and converse on the porch since we are still in our 'velvet fall'. She then told me where the young man is going so while she won't know it, he and I will find time for a talk but methinks after she leaves for up north, there's about a 24 hour window of opportunity.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on October 22, 2020, 05:54:04 AM
So glad to hear about Ella. How great that your daughter was there and knew something to do. It's always seemed to me in times like that when there's nothing to lose, there shouldn't be such resistance to trying things. Like in terminal cancer patients - if heroin is the only thing that controls the pain, why not? It's not as if addiction is going to be a future problem. I'm not sure of the details of the new Right to Try here in the U.S., but surely it has to be a step forward.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on October 22, 2020, 07:53:43 AM
So glad to hear about Ella. How great that your daughter was there and knew something to do. It's always seemed to me in times like that when there's nothing to lose, there shouldn't be such resistance to trying things. Like in terminal cancer patients - if heroin is the only thing that controls the pain, why not? It's not as if addiction is going to be a future problem. I'm not sure of the details of the new Right to Try here in the U.S., but surely it has to be a step forward.

 :goodpost:
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 07, 2021, 02:17:05 AM
Looks like we'll have a blessed event in the next 48 or so. Since Sophia is barren we've been looking for a long time for another blue girl. Blues are a semi benign genetic mutation of a black and are notoriously hard to breed, witness Sophia's several failed attempts and her last disastrous pregnancy.

We found this little stinker by accident, breeder friends of ours up north, who had forgotten we were looking, obtained two blue girls from the east end of this country and mentioned in passing to Her Excellency that she had one left. VCO and I looked at the images and the vid of this girl and I told Her Excellency to buy this lass, she is Sophia lock, stock and barrel. Turns out during the purchase process this girl has Sophia's lineage back to sharing great great grandparents. She will arrive early this week and when she arrives she will tell us her name.We will give her to Sophia to raise and train.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 07, 2021, 03:05:45 AM
Oh, congratulations. Hope she's everything you want.

I'd kind of forgotten about this thread, and I have dog news of my own. I've been looking for a puppy for about a year, and it's been a stunningly hard slog. Evidently Covid and the lockdowns caused so many people to decide it was a good time to get a puppy the shelters were all but bare and breeders had long wait lists. My reason for a puppy is to have a dog ready to compete when my younger Rottie, Teagan, retires, but also to get a smaller breed as a concession to my age.

I researched and researched and came up with 2 breeds that I thought would work. For the first I found breeders had wait lists of hundreds. This for a small breed that has litters of only 1 to 3. That means 10-year plus wait lists. So I turned to my second choice breed - German Pinscher. They look like a small Doberman but top out at 45 pounds. There are differences in temperament, and they don't have some of the health problems. Also since they're not a well known breed or high on the AKC popularity list, getting one didn't mean a wait till beyond the grave or mortgaging the house.

His registered name is Oakwoods Semper Fidelis, and his call name is Gibbs. Yes, a girl would have been Ziva.Grin  If I could remember how to post a picture, I'd do it, but if it means a photo has to be on some photo storage site it won't happen. Maybe I'll change my avatar to his photo.


Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 07, 2021, 03:35:02 AM
Do post a photo! I'm happy you have found a dog you want, I've always been of the opinion that dogs are in general nicer than we 'two legs'.

In this AO things are different, almost reverse of what you found, many breeders just stopped last summer and fall but now that the plague is receding most are back at it. We were very lucky to run in to this little girl and finding a blue with symmetrical face markings is quite difficult. The general way to get blues is to breed a black/white boy with a blue girl, and even then the chances of a good blue are not that high. Sophia was in a litter of three, a black/white sister and a pure white brother. White collies are almost always put down at birth, they are generally either visibly and/or internally defective. Sophia's brother was white and missing an eye, we helped the breeder find a good home for him and he is alive to this day. Her sister was black/white and she only lived a year before she suddenly passed away.

On our new girl's documents her name, and I don't quite remember all, is something to do with orchid. She will tell us her real name herself when she arrives.

When you click 'reply', in the window at the bottom is 'Attachments and other options', click on that and just follow the simple instructions to upload an image. If I can do it, anyone can.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 07, 2021, 04:03:09 AM
Okay, trying this. Nothing shows in preview.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 07, 2021, 04:04:41 AM
Hmm. That came out kind of distorted. I'll resize another later and see how that does.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 07, 2021, 04:09:51 AM
Distortion or not, he has a good look in his eyes, intelligent and friendly it seems.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on June 07, 2021, 05:13:35 AM
Congrats to you both!  :dog1: :dog1:

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 07, 2021, 05:24:55 AM
Her Excellency just translated her documents name. Wild Orchid of Astrhakhan.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 07, 2021, 06:10:15 AM
Her Excellency just translated her documents name. Wild Orchid of Astrhakhan.
Oh, that's a lovely name for a girl.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 07, 2021, 06:27:34 AM
The general way to get blues is to breed a black/white boy with a blue girl, and even then the chances of a good blue are not that high.
That's interesting. I assume blue to blue runs the risk of producing white with the concomitant problems?

Just looking at your picture once again reminds me Albert Payson Terhune's stories, and particularly his collie character Gray Dawn.

It's all interesting. Now that DNA testing can show the dilute gene that produces blue and fawn in breeds like German Pinscher and Doberman, some breeders are deliberately eliminating dogs with the dilute gene from their programs because dogs of those colors tend to have health problems. Nothing as severe as what you say white collies have, but still ... chronic skin problems are what I know of. From looking at websites, not all breeders are doing that but many are.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 07, 2021, 04:21:47 PM
White collies can come from any colour you breed, albeit they are not common. Blues have several minor problems, poor eyesight and breeding difficulties being the two main ones. Collies in general tend to be quite brave, they were bred originally to protect the flocks in Scotland. They will fight and if needs be fight to the death, they are very protective of their two leg families. However, they make poor service dogs, it is easy to train them to attack but the moment they attack they forget what 'Stoi! Stavi!' mean.

Our little stinker is almost to Simferopol, but the fun is going to be transport figuring out the mess at the end of the autobahn in this village, there is huge construction from Presidential Highway all the way to Yalta Ring, so at this time we don't know where we will meet them. Transport will try to take the shortest route but the best way is take the Belbek Aerodrome exit and then down to Inkerman where we will meet them, that way they will avoid the worst of the mess. They will end up going through the convoluted mess of Yalta Ring at any rate, after they deliver our girl they have three to deliver to Yalta.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 08, 2021, 02:14:22 AM
After almost 19 hours on the road, Krista'lyana is home. First thing was a bath, which she loved, then brushed her dry before introducing her to Sophia. Sophia for the first few seconds was 'what is this??', then Lyana cuddled up to Sofik and it was done. Photos tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 08, 2021, 03:27:51 AM
I'm glad you got her home and she's settling. I am very, very grateful that my breeder flew Gibbs to Denver in an under-the-seat carrier for me (from Seattle area). That left me only to figure out how to negotiate the airport and link up with her. I haven't been there for 15 years, and it's my sincere wish to get out of this world without ever getting on an airplane again. Looking forward to pics.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 08, 2021, 04:06:05 AM
We figured, having traveled the same route before, that leaving at 22:00 last night should have put the transporter near our gate at roughly 10:00 today. By 13:00 we were worried, not the least of reasons being two man crew in transporter would not answer their phone. In the end all was good.

I agree with you 300% on flying, a pox on the lot of them.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 10, 2021, 02:00:34 AM
No more photos yet, spent all of yesterday and most of today 'puppy proofing' the yard. We won't leave her there alone of course, but she is rather quick and we don't want her getting her head caught between the lateral boards of the fence. That and going all around the walkway around the house to make sure there is nothing Krista can get her inquisitive little nose in. She is very young so she is rather clumsy, ballerina she ain't.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on June 10, 2021, 02:31:49 AM
I know all about the puppy proofing, and it's amazing the things Gibbs can get into I never thought of. Right now I'm pretty convinced he ate my hearing aids yesterday morning. Fortunately for me they have a 3-year one-time replacement warranty. If he did it, it's my fault for not putting them away in their proper place, but I was tired and started to brush my teeth, realized they were still in, and stuck put them on top of the toilet thinking I'd put them away after and then forgot. That should be too high for him to reach, and I try to keep the bathroom door shut so he can't get in there. When he does, I'm always only a minute or so behind him. So how he could have done it confounds me. And it's hard to believe he'd just swallow them, not chew enough I'd find some remains. But they're gone.

Assuming he did it, they should come through him the same as the twigs and weeds he munches outdoors. And no, I'm not going through you-know-what searching for them.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on June 10, 2021, 06:01:02 AM
Nature will take it's course, and it is amazing what pets can and will eat with no ill affects. I don't remember any of ours being so ravenous as to eat something that is not food.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on September 18, 2021, 04:22:06 PM
Finally, amidst all this turmoil in our normally placid domicile I've got some images of Krista. She's pure blue merle top to bottom like her surrogate mother Sophia, and Sofik is busy instilling her strong but kind personality to Krista.

Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on September 19, 2021, 12:29:30 AM
Beautiful!!!
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on September 19, 2021, 02:26:23 AM
Thanks! She's actually Sophia's lineage, just several generations younger albeit sharing grandparents. She's a ball of fire but Sophia and Ye'katarina are both 'working' with her, they are together almost always since birth and each knows what the other will do. Poor Krista gets double teamed half the day by that pair and it is an amazement how suddenly young and active they are, both are well over 10 years and Ye'katarina has problems with her hips, or at least used to. Now she's like a flash when she's after Krista.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on September 19, 2021, 03:47:00 AM
She's a cutie. Aren't those of us who have adult dogs to help with puppies lucky!
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on September 19, 2021, 03:56:12 AM
She's a cutie. Aren't those of us who have adult dogs to help with puppies lucky!

I only get adult dogs and I've been lucky so far. Mikey has been taught some weird commands but I've been able to figure them out ... mostly.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on September 19, 2021, 09:21:07 AM
When I did Rottweiler rescue, I took in some dogs who were so wonderful I couldn't believe anyone gave them up. However, I also took in some that turned out to be dogs I couldn't see ever succeeding in an average pet home. They spent their lives with me as I live in a semi-rural area with a large fenced yard, and there weren't any problems with them having to deal with other people except an occasional vet visit.

One of the several reasons I stopped doing rescue was I didn't want to become one of those old ladies you see on t.v. when the cops and animal control come to take away the way too many dogs. So I stopped before it could get like that. Thirteen was the most I ever had, and that was way too many and didn't last long. My last rescue boy died the February just before the lockdowns started, and I'm down to 2 now, my 6-year-old Rottie Teagan and Gibbs the German Pinscher puppy.

There won't be another puppy for me, and I'm already trying to decide what I'll do when I lose my last Rottie and am down to just Gibbs. I think I'll try to find a GP breeder with a retired show dog they're looking to find an adoptive home for. That would probably be a 3 to 5-year-old.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on September 19, 2021, 09:57:31 AM
When I did Rottweiler rescue, I took in some dogs who were so wonderful I couldn't believe anyone gave them up. However, I also took in some that turned out to be dogs I couldn't see ever succeeding in an average pet home. They spent their lives with me as I live in a semi-rural area with a large fenced yard, and there weren't any problems with them having to deal with other people except an occasional vet visit.

One of the several reasons I stopped doing rescue was I didn't want to become one of those old ladies you see on t.v. when the cops and animal control come to take away the way too many dogs. So I stopped before it could get like that. Thirteen was the most I ever had, and that was way too many and didn't last long. My last rescue boy died the February just before the lockdowns started, and I'm down to 2 now, my 6-year-old Rottie Teagan and Gibbs the German Pinscher puppy.

There won't be another puppy for me, and I'm already trying to decide what I'll do when I lose my last Rottie and am down to just Gibbs. I think I'll try to find a GP breeder with a retired show dog they're looking to find an adoptive home for. That would probably be a 3 to 5-year-old.

That was the age group I was going for but ... the best laid plans.

Angelo was a JRT I saw at an adoption event at PetSmart and I just fell in love with him. Too late, I learned he was about nine. After the adoption, they told me that this weekend had been his last chance. I shudder to think of his fate. I had him for six wonderful years. He was very well-trained when I got him.

Mikey on the other hand, was supposedly two when I got him. He was a stray and the vet at the shelter determined he was at least two years old by his teeth. Okay, so that was not that far off of three years old. He was 8 pounds when I got him and so small that I could cuddle him and one arm. Then he started growing and not just putting on weight. He ended up at double the size, both length and height and even weight. I really have come to believe that he was closer to a year old than two years old.



Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: elleoco on September 19, 2021, 10:06:11 AM
Mikey on the other hand, was supposedly two when I got him. He was a stray and the vet at the shelter determined he was at least two years old by his teeth. Okay, so that was not that far off of three years old. He was 8 pounds when I got him and so small that I could cuddle him and one arm. Then he started growing and not just putting on weight. He ended up at double the size, both length and height and even weight. I really have come to believe that he was closer to a year old than two years old.

If he wasn't malnourished when you got him and he grew that much, I'd say he was under a year when you got him. I've never heard of a healthy dog doubling its weight after a year. But at least 16 pounds still isn't huge if you wanted a small dog.

German Pinschers aren't supposed to get larger than 45 pounds, but Gibbs is already that at 6 months. I keep asking his breeder if he's going to be the largest GP in history, and she keeps telling me the largest she ever bred was 52 pounds. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: R H Auslander on September 19, 2021, 08:06:20 PM
Older dogs do tend to help with raising the children, at least ours do. When Plyushya, mother of Aleksandr and Ella, tired of the 'mommy' thing Sophia stepped right in and finished raising them, even producing milk, which is not uncommon. To this day they regard Sofik as their mother and all she has to do if they are misbehaving, and they do from time to time, is give them 'the look' and they are instantly angels. The real giggle is both those youngsters are considerably larger than Sofik, tall, long, lean and muscular whereas Sofik, despite being technically too tall by 5 cm for koli shows, is like a brick wall, solid and muscular but she does not look particularly large.

The problem with our pets is we live longer than they do and losing one is like losing a child because that is what they are, our children.
Title: Re: Dogs: From: lockdown thread
Post by: Maggie Ann on September 20, 2021, 12:30:02 AM
Mikey on the other hand, was supposedly two when I got him. He was a stray and the vet at the shelter determined he was at least two years old by his teeth. Okay, so that was not that far off of three years old. He was 8 pounds when I got him and so small that I could cuddle him and one arm. Then he started growing and not just putting on weight. He ended up at double the size, both length and height and even weight. I really have come to believe that he was closer to a year old than two years old.

If he wasn't malnourished when you got him and he grew that much, I'd say he was under a year when you got him. I've never heard of a healthy dog doubling its weight after a year. But at least 16 pounds still isn't huge if you wanted a small dog.

German Pinschers aren't supposed to get larger than 45 pounds, but Gibbs is already that at 6 months. I keep asking his breeder if he's going to be the largest GP in history, and she keeps telling me the largest she ever bred was 52 pounds. Time will tell.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about Mikey's age. I just remember how tiny he was when I got him, but he's still small enough that I can handle him and even pick him up to put in the sink.