Author Topic: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills  (Read 8722 times)

guest1291

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Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« on: April 29, 2019, 01:29:39 PM »
The reactions across social media to tonight's ridiculously bad episode (Season 8, Ep. 3) and really for every episode this season has me feeling like I'm pretty much alone on Sanity (Insanity?) Island.

Is this a generational thing? Have storytelling standards dropped this much over the years? I can't get over how much praise something so bad is receiving, but given how this happens for so many other stories in TV and film, I guess I shouldn't be shocked.

I'm not exaggerating when I say tonight's episode represented the kind of writing you see from sixth graders on a writing assignment.

How far this show has fallen.  :shrug

Honestly, tonight's episode felt like it was written in some 12-year-old's fantasy of how an epic story should play out.

Really, the show has not been good for nearly four seasons now, but lately it's gone off the deep end of plot contrivances, deus ex machina, and horrid logic.

We saw what the dead were like in the 'Hardhome' episode from an otherwise terrible Season 5. That was a much better representation, and a much better episode (from the same director as tonight's episode, no less).

How many times did we have to see major characters be saved at the last second by some "badass" move from another major character? How cheesy was that Arya scene where she charges in with heroic music "owning" dead guys with spins and kicks?

Oh gawd, don't get me started. I could go on and on about this. If you want to talk about it, I'm definitely game (thus this thread), but for now I'll spare you the problems I have with it all. Needless to say as much as I feel committed to these characters and this story world from my love for the books and the early episodes of this show, I'm also pretty disappointed in the direction the writing has taken.

For shame, HBO. Bring on GRRM's 'The Winds of Winter'!
 
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Post-Crisis D

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 01:47:47 PM »
The reactions across social media to tonight's ridiculously bad episode (Season 8, Ep. 3) and really for every episode this season has me feeling like I'm pretty much alone on Sanity (Insanity?) Island.

Is this a generational thing? Have storytelling standards dropped this much over the years? I can't get over how much praise something so bad is receiving, but given how this happens for so many other stories in TV and film, I guess I shouldn't be shocked.

I don't watch GoT so I can't comment on that but I have watched other shows that have been really, really bad yet have gotten rave reviews.  I think, sometimes, story takes a backseat to other factors and if those factors ring the right bells, the show/movie/whatever will be praised even if the story itself is bland, nonsensical, just plain stupid or even nonexistent.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 02:53:33 PM »
I haven't been watching the show and have no desire to start now, but I'm curious what you found so bad about it. Reading the episode summary on Wikipedia, it sounds like the big bad of the entire series was killed by a main character sneaking up behind him, in a deus ex machina sort of way. Is that right?
 

LilyBLily

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 03:02:07 PM »
Ever since Lost jumped the shark--over and over again--I've ignored series TV drama. I feel much better for having made that decision. Fool me once.
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 03:17:01 PM »
 :afro:
Ever since Lost jumped the shark--over and over again--I've ignored series TV drama. I feel much better for having made that decision. Fool me once.

Your loss. Breaking Bad and The Man in the High Castle are two of the greatest TV series ever made.
 

Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2019, 06:46:27 PM »
I stopped watching GOT after season 5 aired, but in anticipation of the final season I recently decided to rewatch the entire series from the beginning. I'm currently making my through season 6, I'll report back when I get to season 8  :icon_mrgreen: But there are dubious moments throughout the entire series, and Arya's character arc hasn't always been one that I've enjoyed. It's interesting watching the entire series without the season breaks though, and noticing things I hadn't before.  I never made it past the first book either so I have no idea what's going to happen!
If you dare nothing, then when the day is over nothing is all you will have gained. -Neil Gaiman
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2019, 07:52:30 PM »
I had mixed feelings about the episode.  My opinions:



Spoiler: ShowHide
Things I liked:

Unlike some viewers, I actually liked the fact that Arya was the one to kill the Night King.  Her entire character arc has been to turn her into the deadliest assassin in the seven kingdoms.  In my opinion, it was absolutely right that she was the one who managed to sneak past the White Walkers and get close enough to the Night King to do him in.  (You see one of the White Walkers turn his head right before, and I think that's supposed to be Arya sneaking through.)  I think Arya is the best-developed character on the show.  She took her licks, endured all sorts of grueling training, and earned her victories the hard way.  She's the complete opposite of Dragon Sue in that regard.  And Maisie Williams is a fantastic actress.

Sansa's and Tyrion's conversation was a nice moment.

Music was pretty good.

We saw Ghost get some action, though only briefly.

Arya sneaking around in the library--or whatever that room was--was pretty cool and a nice bit of dramatic tension.


Things I disliked:

The lighting.  I'm sick of these night-time battles where you can't follow the action because you can't freakin' see anything.

The good guys' strategy.  A full frontal charge into the darkness with cavalry?  Bonehead maneuver and a waste of Dothraki.  Also, too many soldiers outside the walls and not enough inside.  The walls are the best defense multiplier they had, and that should have been the main focus of the strategy.

Dragons weren't utilized as well as they could have been.

Sam reverted back to the coward, basically nullifying his whole character arc.

It would have been pretty horrifying for zombie Ned Stark to bust out of his crypt and come face-to-face with Sansa, and that's why it should have happened.  It didn't, though.  Wasted opportunity.

Jon playing hide-and-seek with the zombie dragon.  I'm still not sure of the whole point of that.



I'll probably think of a few more things later, but that's what stick in my mind at the moment.


I'm not exaggerating when I say tonight's episode represented the kind of writing you see from sixth graders on a writing assignment.

How far this show has fallen.  :shrug

Honestly, tonight's episode felt like it was written in some 12-year-old's fantasy of how an epic story should play out.

Really, the show has not been good for nearly four seasons now, but lately it's gone off the deep end of plot contrivances, deus ex machina, and horrid logic.


There was a noticeable change in the writing when the show writers ran out of book material and had to start coming up with stuff on their own.
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guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 06:04:45 AM »
I haven't been watching the show and have no desire to start now, but I'm curious what you found so bad about it. Reading the episode summary on Wikipedia, it sounds like the big bad of the entire series was killed by a main character sneaking up behind him, in a deus ex machina sort of way. Is that right?

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Yes, apparently a character who can't traverse a room without alerting zombies who are afoot by a drop of her blood hitting the floor can somehow afterwards sneak past a dozen Undead sheriffs en route to ninja-diving onto the Big Boss at a perfectly opportune moment.  :icon_rolleyes:
 

guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 06:06:12 AM »
Ever since Lost jumped the shark--over and over again--I've ignored series TV drama. I feel much better for having made that decision. Fool me once.

Yeah, the writing on Lost went from decent to awful in no time.
 

guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 06:08:35 AM »
I stopped watching GOT after season 5 aired, but in anticipation of the final season I recently decided to rewatch the entire series from the beginning. I'm currently making my through season 6, I'll report back when I get to season 8  :icon_mrgreen: But there are dubious moments throughout the entire series, and Arya's character arc hasn't always been one that I've enjoyed. It's interesting watching the entire series without the season breaks though, and noticing things I hadn't before.  I never made it past the first book either so I have no idea what's going to happen!

Seasons 1-4 (mostly Seasons 1-3, really) compared with everything post-S4 feels like two separate shows. The lack of GRRM's involvement after S4 is glaringly obvious.
 

guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 06:35:59 AM »
I had mixed feelings about the episode.  My opinions:



Spoiler: ShowHide
Things I liked:

Unlike some viewers, I actually liked the fact that Arya was the one to kill the Night King.  Her entire character arc has been to turn her into the deadliest assassin in the seven kingdoms.  In my opinion, it was absolutely right that she was the one who managed to sneak past the White Walkers and get close enough to the Night King to do him in.  (You see one of the White Walkers turn his head right before, and I think that's supposed to be Arya sneaking through.)  I think Arya is the best-developed character on the show.  She took her licks, endured all sorts of grueling training, and earned her victories the hard way.  She's the complete opposite of Dragon Sue in that regard.  And Maisie Williams is a fantastic actress.

Sansa's and Tyrion's conversation was a nice moment.

Music was pretty good.

We saw Ghost get some action, though only briefly.

Arya sneaking around in the library--or whatever that room was--was pretty cool and a nice bit of dramatic tension.


Things I disliked:

The lighting.  I'm sick of these night-time battles where you can't follow the action because you can't freakin' see anything.

The good guys' strategy.  A full frontal charge into the darkness with cavalry?  Bonehead maneuver and a waste of Dothraki.  Also, too many soldiers outside the walls and not enough inside.  The walls are the best defense multiplier they had, and that should have been the main focus of the strategy.

Dragons weren't utilized as well as they could have been.

Sam reverted back to the coward, basically nullifying his whole character arc.

It would have been pretty horrifying for zombie Ned Stark to bust out of his crypt and come face-to-face with Sansa, and that's why it should have happened.  It didn't, though.  Wasted opportunity.

Jon playing hide-and-seek with the zombie dragon.  I'm still not sure of the whole point of that.



I'll probably think of a few more things later, but that's what stick in my mind at the moment.


I'm not exaggerating when I say tonight's episode represented the kind of writing you see from sixth graders on a writing assignment.

How far this show has fallen.  :shrug

Honestly, tonight's episode felt like it was written in some 12-year-old's fantasy of how an epic story should play out.

Really, the show has not been good for nearly four seasons now, but lately it's gone off the deep end of plot contrivances, deus ex machina, and horrid logic.


There was a noticeable change in the writing when the show writers ran out of book material and had to start coming up with stuff on their own.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. And I just want to say off the hop, the following saltiness isn't aimed at you, it's aimed at the GOT showrunners who I feel have done their level best to ruin a franchise I love.

RE: Arya

I find Arya's arc to be illogical to the point of comedy. We saw her train a bit with Syrio in S1, and then she traveled around with those poor souls headed for the Wall and then later with the Hound. She received lessons in the harshness of the world and the coldness of the people living in it, but didn't receive much in the way of fight training other than some self-led water dance practice steps here and there during that time.

Then she goes to Braavos to the House of Black and White and her training consists of some assassination gigs that don't require much in the way of ninja skills other than some stabby stabby or using poison. And then it's about getting the crap beat out of her by the Waif while blind for a while.

She does manage to learn to use her staff with some precision, but then she's totally outclassed by the Waif in boxing class. Point is, at no point in the show do we see her in Braavos turning into the kind of superhero ninja assassin we're seeing her as now, at know point was she "owning" anyone. She was routinely beat up by the Waif. We were not shown her ever becoming the kind of fighter that could match or even best Brienne in a skirmish. I mean the show now makes her look like she could fight just about anyone, and that's so ridiculous given everything we've seen in the show.

Oh, and then there was that ridiculousness where she's stabbed in the gut repeatedly, then survives the jump into sewer water and after a night of rest she's running and leaping through the streets to elude the Waif doing a full-on T-1000 routine.

It's like the showrunners were so high on her character they just went ahead and leveled her up to a ridiculous degree and it totally feels unearned.

I don't disagree that Maisie Williams can act, but man I wish she'd had better material to work with.

Then there's Tyrion. Another ruined character. His cleverness apparently is too much for the showrunners to handle. He and Varys both have been reduced to Greek chorus status, or the two guys in the balcony on the Muppets, only with a penchant for toilet humor.

Aside from them and speaking more broadly, I don't even think it's an exaggeration to say at least 50% of the dialogue in S8E3, if not most of the dialogue this season in general, is old recycled lines from seasons past.

I don't even know why they bothered bringing Ghost back. I mean, if you've killed off all of the other direwolves, but you've spared this one, then maybe there's a reason? But, no, no point in looking for reason for anything with this show. The dragon scenes were so bad I thought maybe I was watching a big budget retelling of an 8 year old's play session with action figures. Really, this entire episode felt that way.

Yeah, I'm pretty salty about all of this. I apologize if I'm coming across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. But I really care about ASOIAF and for a long time I cared about the show, and it pains me to see how it's been treated.

I feel like the showrunners have insulted fans' intelligence with this mess. I feel like they underestimate the audience and are trying to pass off lazy, incoherent writing under the guise of BRIGHT, SHINY spectacle. Characters and world building this deep deserve better than that.

As far as book material goes, I also have a problem there too (who'd-a thunk it?  :icon_mrgreen:). The showrunners could have used books four and five and adapted them far more closely than they did in the seasons after S4. They deliberately chose to move away from that source material and that's another reason why I heap criticism on them for how the show has gone since, and it's also why I am reticent to criticize GRRM for just how far the show has fallen.

Needless to say, I can't wait for GRRM's conclusion to the series. I have little doubt book 6 is finished and he and the publisher have been waiting for the show to wrap up before releasing to maximize impact.
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 07:21:09 AM »
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. And I just want to say off the hop, the following saltiness isn't aimed at you, it's aimed at the GOT showrunners who I feel have done their level best to ruin a franchise I love.


Oh, I understand.  It's cool.   :cheers


Quote
Then there's Tyrion. Another ruined character. His cleverness apparently is too much for the showrunners to handle. He and Varys both have been reduced to Greek chorus status, or the two guys in the balcony on the Muppets, only with a penchant for toilet humor.


On this, we agree.  Similar thing happened to Baelish.


Quote
I don't even know why they bothered bringing Ghost back. I mean, if you've killed off all of the other direwolves, but you've spared this one, then maybe there's a reason?


Isn't Nymeria still alive?  I've always thought of the direwolves as sort of avatars for the Stark kids.  They lose their wolves when they start trusting outsiders over their own family or their own instincts.  I think Arya even said something to that effect once about Sansa to explain her actions.  "She lost her wolf."  And Robb might still be alive if he had trusted Grey Wind's instincts instead of the Freys' hospitality.

That was another wasted moment in this episode, by the way.  Arya's no longer a lost sheep, so Nymeria shouldn't be wandering in the wilderness anymore either.  We've had a reunion between Arya and Jon, so we should have had a reunion between Ghost and Nymeria.  It would have been awesome to see the two wolves going to battle side by side.  But the writers prefer to blow the whole CGI budget on dragons, so there we are.  I'm almost shocked we got to see as much of Ghost as we did.


Quote
Needless to say, I can't wait for GRRM's conclusion to the series. I have little doubt book 6 is finished and he and the publisher have been waiting for the show to wrap up before releasing to maximize impact.


I'll be flabbergasted if GRRM finishes the series.  I'd like him to, obviously, but I'm expecting to be left hanging.

I loved the first book and eagerly bought the others.  After the Red Wedding, though, I stopped getting emotionally invested in the characters.  I simply don't care who lives or dies anymore.  The series's main theme seems to be Rick Moranis's line from Spaceballs: "Evil will always triumph because good is dumb."  And that makes for a feel-bad series.  I'll read any future books just so I can finish what I started, but that's my only motivation at this point.
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Edward M. Grant

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 07:58:34 AM »
I'll be flabbergasted if GRRM finishes the series.  I'd like him to, obviously, but I'm expecting to be left hanging.

Ditto. It feels to me like he wrote a fantasy soap opera, and soap operas aren't designed to end. Usually they just stop, when they get cancelled.

Besides, if his ending is different to the TV show, people from now until next Tuesday will be complaining about how the two are different.
 

Denise

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 08:11:20 AM »
Well, no, after the writers were left without the source material it all went downhill.

Even then, some things are weird. I understand simplifying and rushing, two problems in the last two seasons, but there are so many other problems.

Since season 6 there are no conflicts. Obstacles, yes, but no conflicts or dilemmas. Everything is solved easily.

In season 6 finale Dany went to westeros like that, puft. No conflict, no issues. Arya same thing. Cercey got rid of her political enemies and the militant faith easily as well. And from there everything goes straight forward unless characters make stupid decisions.

I like the visuals and the action of GOT, and I guess we got that. But it was pretty straightforward: walkers attack, Winterfell fights back, starts to lose, lose... At that point, with that music, slow motion, I knew a last minute positive thing was about to happen. I thought it would be a chance for some of the characters to escape. Nope. The army of the dead is destroyed. Yay. Easy peasy.

Same thing will happen in the next episodes. Some lame dialogue and character interaction without conflict, then things move straightforward.

Anyway, still some impressive cinematography.

German Translator

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2019, 08:57:54 AM »
How to win an epic battle:
1. Let your Dothraki cavalry charge into the darkness. Yeah, that's a great idea!
2. You have a castle. The enemy has a large army of undead but no siege engines or even ladders (they have to climb over each other!). So obviously you place most of your defending army outside the walls instead of picking off enemies from afar
3. Use your dragon airforce a few times, but also have it fly around randomly. That's the ticket!

Visually, most of the episode reminded me of Calvin and his drawing of a "polar bear blinking in a blizzard" (https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1989/12/10)

Just a few of the books I have translated (English <-> German)
 
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ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 10:34:30 AM »
Spoilers ahead!

The first time I watched the episode, it seemed so dark and messy, and I kept seeing faults in everything. I was even bored because I kept waiting for everyone to die. The second time I watched it, I actually enjoyed it, despite all the weird stuff. The best part was definitely Arya, and I wouldnít have rewatched the whole thing if it werenít for her.

I loved the foreshadowing and that she was the one who stopped the NK. After so many seasons and things weíd seen her go through and all the training, she was the only one who could pull something like this off. I found a lot of things hard to believe, like a lot of characters surviving when it looked like they shouldnít, but this was definitely not one of those moments.

For most of the episode, I was worried it was going to be Jon with some ridiculous move, maybe even on Danyís dragon that he somehow learned to perfectly ride only five seconds later after looking terrified when he was near it, and Iím so glad that didnít happen. I was pleasantly surprised that the NK wasnít stupid enough to let Jon just rush and fight him for no good reason either.

At first, it did seem like everything was resolved too easily, but itís not like they ever stood a chance against the dead. Maybe if they let the dragons just constantly breathe fire, but the NK would probably solve that too with one of his little winter storms. Fighting the dead is not like fighting humans, and I guess I prefer when they fight humans because then things donít look so hopeless. And when theyíre not fighting mindless creatures who can keep coming, itís possible to strategize better, so it's more interesting.

I still think they couldíve had a better strategy because at times it seemed like they hadnít planned anything at all (wtf were the Dothraki doing just charging like that, and wouldnít they set their hair and beards on fire with those flames? :P), but Iím not sure if it wouldíve made a difference. They couldíve just stayed inside, but the NKís dragon could break through the walls, so again, not much help unless Danyís dragons took it down first, which wouldíve been hard with that cold wind and snow. Although, the dragons appearing and disappearing at certain times couldíve been handled better because it seemed way too random, and I was left wondering why they just didn't burn all the dead, but I guess they don't like snow and cold. :D

Oh, and Iíll miss Lyanna Mormont so much. Such a badass. I also want to know what Bran was doing with those ravens and where they went. And the way he and the NK were looking at each other made me laugh.

Anyway, even with all the imperfections, it was all still kind of beautiful. The music was awesome too.
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 01:41:51 PM »
Spoiler: ShowHide
Oh, and Iíll miss Lyanna Mormont so much.


She went out like a champ.   :ices_angel_g:


Quote
I also want to know what Bran was doing with those ravens and where they went.


I'm pretty sure the ravens were how he lured the Night King in.  Taunting him, maybe.  Or something.   :shrug

A much as I liked Arya killing the NK, one thing I didn't like was her leap from the top turnbuckle a la Rick Flair or somebody.  That was kind of cheesy.  I'd rather she'd put on another man's--or White Walker's--face and sneak up like she's done in the past.


I liked the dagger switcheroo, though.  She did that before when sparring with Brienne.  Check it out:


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Dormouse

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 06:35:32 PM »
I'll be flabbergasted if GRRM finishes the series.  I'd like him to, obviously, but I'm expecting to be left hanging.

Ditto. It feels to me like he wrote a fantasy soap opera, and soap operas aren't designed to end. Usually they just stop, when they get cancelled.

If he based everything on the Wars of the Roses he'll end up with Henry VII.
And after him there were no stories.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2019, 07:23:33 PM »
I loved the episode, and I really enjoy the whole series.

Yes, there are strategy goofs, but I guess the Dothraki were sent out to die so that we (and the waiting defenders) could see all the flaming swords being snuffed out one by one. Like the dark lighting, it was done to build the fear of the unknown. I remember thinking it was a dumb move and a complete waste of life, but still valiant and brave and tragic.

My attitude is that GOT is entertainment, not a series of tutorials on medieval warfare. I'm willing to suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride.
 
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floof

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 08:46:05 PM »
I haven't been watching the show and have no desire to start now, but I'm curious what you found so bad about it. Reading the episode summary on Wikipedia, it sounds like the big bad of the entire series was killed by a main character sneaking up behind him, in a deus ex machina sort of way. Is that right?

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Yes, apparently a character who can't traverse a room without alerting zombies who are afoot by a drop of her blood hitting the floor can somehow afterwards sneak past a dozen Undead sheriffs en route to ninja-diving onto the Big Boss at a perfectly opportune moment.  :icon_rolleyes:

The point of the library scene was to show that [character] is so stealthy that blood dripping onto the floor is louder than [character]'s movements.

There was no deus ex machina. Just a lot of people who weren't happy with how it played out. Which is fine, they're not going to be able to please everyone, but it was extensively foreshadowed. For seasons.

For those who have seen the episode or don't mind spoilers, I give you this link (not written by me):

Spoiler: ShowHide
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/binxl6/f*ck_your_theories_f*ck_azor_ahai_f*ck_the_night/

r/freefolk
ēPosted byu/Izzypupper
23 hours ago

f*ck your theories. f*ck Azor Ahai. f*ck the Night King.


I am convinced that the comic book guys on here never watched the show or read the books.

"We need to learn what his motivations were"

There's a whole episode on that - he was created by the COTF to wage war on mankind. Because of the manner of his creation, he also bore a grudge against his creators. He had no noble purpose, no activating reason, beyond wishing to destroy all life. What more do we need?

"But we never got a fight, dude died without ever swinging the sword in anger"

Yes, but whose fault is that? Throughout the series, we see the Night King avoiding one on one combat. He hangs back from the fight at Hardhome. He always keeps a ring of dead f*ckers around him. And last night, he had the chance to take on Jon 1 on 1, and what do we see happen? He runs from a fight again.

"But muh theories are clear - he was to be killed by Azor Ahai, the Prince that Was Promised"

f*ck your theories. f*ck Azor Ahai. f*ck the Night King.

They were always just that - theories. The Arya endgame was there in front of all our eyes and we missed it. The dagger was there, in front of our eyes, and we missed it. "What do we say to the God of Death" was there, in front of our eyes, and we missed it. The flaming sword? It was there. The move she used to kill him? She practised it on Brienne JUST LAST SEASON, right in front of our eyes. The Prince who would lead the army of the living? He's right there. The battle between Ice and Fire? A whole episode about it, we just watched.

  • "But Arya just teleported to the Tree"

    How far away do you guys think the Godswood is from the castle, exactly? She had plenty of time. She's a trained silent assassin.

  • What did you want? A speech? "I must kill the Night King, that's what you mean, Melisandre. All right. I shall go now to the Godswood. And the cameras shall follow me, to kill all suspense".

  • "But it's not plausible that Muh Night King could be killed by the person who snuck inside the Twins, one of the most impregnable castles in the realm. It's not plausible that he could be killed by someone trained by the most fearsome and feared assassin's guild in the known world. It's not possible that this person who we've literally seen sneaking around and hiding in plain sight could sneak up on someone who didn't know she existed". Listen to yourselves.

The episode wasn't perfect. In places it was badly shot. They chickened out on some deaths (Brienne, for example, would have packed an emotional punch, or Gilly and the baby, or Grey Worm).

But this argument about the plot is neckbeard bullsh*t. Classic "I'm not emotionally satisfied so it's bad". Well, you guys are going to be so pissed when Daenarys and Jon take the throne in the end and usher in a new era of peace. I can't wait.
 

PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2019, 12:09:22 PM »
Personally...

:tup3b :tup3b :tup3b

The pacing and tension and different genre pov's, not to mention the sheer spectacle? Genius to the point of Masterclass.

Arya's arc? Extremely well earned. Loved it. Subverting the Night King boss battle? Loved that too.

As for the Dothraki charge: 1) I thought that was their claim to fame? and 2) having all of those burning swords going out like that...Jesus, talk about ratcheting up the tension. I'd say that was the show's 'we're going to need a bigger boat' moment. Great scene.

All of the call-backs and character moments reminded me of Endgame, which I also loved.  :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
 

guest1291

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2019, 03:49:34 PM »
"The long night is coming, and the dead come with it. No clan can stop them, the free folk can't stop them, the Night's Watch can't stop them and all the southern kings can't stop them."

"This is the only war that matters, the Great War, and it is here."

All of the foreshadowing for 7+ seasons. All of the build-up.

The whole Night's Watch arc on the show. Sam seeing them at the Fist of the First Men, then killing a WW with dragon glass. Jon staring down the NK at Hardhome after taking on a WW and barely escaping in time.

All of the Children of the Forest imagery, the Weirwoods, the spiral formations going back to the beginning of Season 1, Episode 1.

Bran's journey north of the Wall. The bloody centuries-long existence of said Wall. The snickering in King's Landing about "grumpkins and snarks".

This ever-looming threat that supposedly rendered all of the southern Kings' bickering moot.

Ser Davos: "And then it doesn't matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne."

A threat that boiled for a thousand years or longer, put in motion by the ancient Children of the Forest...the threat of the Long Night that approached for multiple seasons.

Ned Stark's ominous promise, his own house's prophetic words: "Winter is Coming"

The talk of Lightbringer, the Prince Who was Promised, the prophesied Azor Ahai...

All of that...extinguished...gone in one battle in one bloody episode...

And the person who extinguishes the greatest threat to all of humankind personified in the Night King? It's Arya Stark, who didn't even realize said bad guy existed until - what - maybe three weeks before she got him with that fatal stab?

Uh, yeah, I've got a problem with that.
 

Phronk

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2019, 10:18:23 PM »
I liked it. The confusion and tension made for an emotionally satisfying episode, though maybe not an intellectually rigorous one.

If anything, I think itís been playing it too safe lately. Characters are just cruising along their character arcs, protected from death by plot armor until they reach their clearly demarcated destination. I guess the big badís end was kind of surprising in how it happened, but despite so many people hating it, even that seemed kind of safe. I wouldíve liked it better if he accidentally tripped on a rock and impaled himself on dragon glass ... that would be more in line with the unpredictability and nihilism of earlier seasons.
 

ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 12:53:14 AM »
Spoiler: ShowHide

I'm pretty sure the ravens were how he lured the Night King in.  Taunting him, maybe.  Or something.   :shrug

A much as I liked Arya killing the NK, one thing I didn't like was her leap from the top turnbuckle a la Rick Flair or somebody.  That was kind of cheesy.  I'd rather she'd put on another man's--or White Walker's--face and sneak up like she's done in the past.



I thought the NK could always tell where Bran is, and it didn't look like the ravens were pecking at him or anything. I guess it was supposed to be mysterious, because for a second there I thought he was helping the NK because the NK realized just what he had to do right after the ravens flew above the battlefield. I never liked Bran too much, so I guess I'm always expecting him to turn out to be evil or just manipulating the NK and everyone for some purpose.  :icon_rofl:

I don't think it would've made sense for Arya to put on anyone's face because then she'd lose her advantage. She's small and quiet when she moves, and those dead guys were just standing and staring straight ahead, so if they don't hear her, they don't see her. And I believe the NK and Bran were standing farther apart from everyone else, so she had to rush to get to the NK because they would've seen her no matter what and there wasn't anything to hide behind, and the NK could feel she wasn't one of his. But since he sensed she was just a girl running at him, he didn't see her as too big of a threat, and he thought it would be easy to deal with her, like with Theon. If he'd seen her as a threat, he would've found a way to block her like he did with Jon.
 

Guerin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 11:59:00 PM »
I enjoyed the episode and probably because I've been a fan of Arya from the start. Everyone else is plotting and scheming to seize the throne, and most of them end up dead. Not Arya, she's all business. All she wants is to kill the people on her list, and unlike the others, she's been successful. In fact, her body count up to this episode was only rivaled by that of the NK, and now she's the undisputed champ.

While the series may not have shown the amount of time that Arya spent training with the Faceless Men, I believe that in the book it is several years. Although you constantly saw her bested by the Waif, in the end, she kills the Waif. That was her final exam, to kill or be killed by a Faceless assassin. That was probably why the Waif disliked her so much from the very beginning. She knew that for Arya to succeed, she would have to die. That is why when Arya confronts Jaqen in the temple, after killing the Waif, Jaqen declares, "Finally a girl is no one."

Guerin Zand | Website | Facebook
 

guest169

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2019, 03:25:33 AM »
I haven't been watching the show and have no desire to start now, but I'm curious what you found so bad about it. Reading the episode summary on Wikipedia, it sounds like the big bad of the entire series was killed by a main character sneaking up behind him, in a deus ex machina sort of way. Is that right?

SPOILERS AHEAD:

Yes, apparently a character who can't traverse a room without alerting zombies who are afoot by a drop of her blood hitting the floor can somehow afterwards sneak past a dozen Undead sheriffs en route to ninja-diving onto the Big Boss at a perfectly opportune moment.  :icon_rolleyes:

I am not against Arya killing the Night King, but I am against Deus Ex Arya flying out of the night sky through the undead and the ring of White Walkers without being detected! It stretches credibility. Jon, whom we've been watching develop into a hero for 8 fracking seasons, is ineffective and roars at the ice dragon??????? A frontal assault on the undead army by the Dothraki? Who decided on that tactic? The little girl in the catacombs? No interaction between Bran and the Night King? What TF was the purpose of Jon coming back from the dead??? His Valyrian steel sword should have at LEAST been involved in a battle with the Night King and THEN Arya, using her skills as a faceless man, should have been shown sneaking through the lines and then VOILA! She saves Jon's life and kills the Night King in one fell swoop.

TRIPLE UGH.

Stupid stupid writers... UGH
 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2019, 03:45:24 AM »
I am not against Arya killing the Night King, but I am against Deus Ex Arya flying out of the night sky through the undead and the ring of White Walkers without being detected! It stretches credibility. Jon, whom we've been watching develop into a hero for 8 fracking seasons, is ineffective and roars at the ice dragon???????

There are some fans saying he wasn't screaming at the dragon but instead distracting the dragon while yelling "Go!  Go!  Go!" to Arya.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

guest169

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Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2019, 03:46:00 AM »
I am not against Arya killing the Night King, but I am against Deus Ex Arya flying out of the night sky through the undead and the ring of White Walkers without being detected! It stretches credibility. Jon, whom we've been watching develop into a hero for 8 fracking seasons, is ineffective and roars at the ice dragon???????

There are some fans saying he wasn't screaming at the dragon but instead distracting the dragon while yelling "Go!  Go!  Go!" to Arya.

HAHA!

In their dreams...
 

PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2019, 03:00:31 AM »
I am not against Arya killing the Night King, but I am against Deus Ex Arya flying out of the night sky through the undead and the ring of White Walkers without being detected! It stretches credibility. Jon, whom we've been watching develop into a hero for 8 fracking seasons, is ineffective and roars at the ice dragon??????? A frontal assault on the undead army by the Dothraki? Who decided on that tactic? The little girl in the catacombs? No interaction between Bran and the Night King? What TF was the purpose of Jon coming back from the dead??? His Valyrian steel sword should have at LEAST been involved in a battle with the Night King and THEN Arya, using her skills as a faceless man, should have been shown sneaking through the lines and then VOILA! She saves Jon's life and kills the Night King in one fell swoop.

TRIPLE UGH.

Stupid stupid writers... UGH

Okay, here's my take...

1. Arya is not remotely, by any definition, a Deus ex machina. She trained/survived both in the school of hard knocks (essentially a homeless kid of the Seven Kingdoms) and as a Faceless Man assassin for seven years. In fact, she was the only one in Winterfell with the necessary skills to get close enough to the Night King to even have a shot at killing him. We got hints of her abilities over the last couple of seasons as direct foreshadowing (training with Brie, for example), and the writers even acknowledged that they had planned to have Arya kill the Night King three years ago. And just as a reminder:

Arya not only killed the Freys as revenge for the Red Wedding, but two of them (Lothar and Black Walder) were carved into pieces and baked into a pie. Arya then served the pie to their father, Walder Frey, before revealing herself as a Stark (by removing the face of another Frey family member she was wearing at the time) and slitting his throat.

Dues paid.

Mic dropped.

2. The Dothraki's most feared (and effective) weapon is their cavalry charge, right? Why wouldn't they go with what's worked for centuries? It's made clear that most of the defenders, even the commanders, don't really get what they're up against. Jon is constantly reminding them. Iíd say the Dothraki were the Seven Kingdomís equivalent of an artillery barrage. But more importantlyÖwhat a fantastic cinematic device, as story, emotion and pacing. Incredibly well done.

3. Once Jon has a clear shot at the Night King, he is faced with insurmountable and yet, believable, story-consistent obstacles that just pile up around him (good writing), until he is finally pinned down by the Zombie Dragon and unable to be the hero of the day - the expected hero, because we all expected him to kill the Night King - right up until he didn't. They did a really good job of subverting the hero trope (good writing). And because we weren't sure that's what they were doing, the tension kept rising as we tried to figure out who was going to be able to kill the Night King - and save Bran. His survival was very much in doubt. All of that is really good writing.

4. The little girl was foreshadowing.

5. What's the point of Jon coming back from the dead? A...It's not over yet, and B...umÖthe Iron Throne?

6. Arya did save Jon's life, she saved everyone. And it's not like Jon wasn't hip deep in blood - Valyrian steel kills zombies too.

And lastly:

Sorry, but the show is over. Martin isn't writing anymore books. The writers have exactly 6 episodes to wrap everything up - everything. I think they're doing a great job given their parameters. They're concentrating more on characters and arcs, which is good writing. Han Solo's death, by contrast, was bad writing because it wasn't earned; it was just like, "oh, so that happened." Arya's defeat of the Night King, on the other hand, while surprising-ish, was totally earned - and over the course of 7 seasons no less.

Iím not sure itís fair to say the writers suck just because they didnít satisfy specific fan-expectations.
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2019, 03:05:25 AM »
My personal take on the controversy.
 

Edward M. Grant

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2019, 03:26:33 AM »
I haven't seen this episode--and, frankly, I haven't have much desire to watch the show since they ran out of books to base it on, but probably will because my girlfriend still watches it--but everything I've read just makes the characters look even more incompetent than they did last season, and makes me wish I'd got my preferred ending; the humans keep pointlessly fighting each other until the zombie army comes down from the north and kills the survivors.

There's an interesting discussion on Reddit from military folks about how incompetent the tactics were:

https://old.reddit.com/r/army/comments/bis3x4/battle_analysis_the_defense_of_winterfell_spoilers/

Note for the easily triggered: there's a fair amount of swearing involved.
 

guest1291

  • Guest
Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2019, 09:18:47 AM »
I am not against Arya killing the Night King, but I am against Deus Ex Arya flying out of the night sky through the undead and the ring of White Walkers without being detected! It stretches credibility. Jon, whom we've been watching develop into a hero for 8 fracking seasons, is ineffective and roars at the ice dragon??????? A frontal assault on the undead army by the Dothraki? Who decided on that tactic? The little girl in the catacombs? No interaction between Bran and the Night King? What TF was the purpose of Jon coming back from the dead??? His Valyrian steel sword should have at LEAST been involved in a battle with the Night King and THEN Arya, using her skills as a faceless man, should have been shown sneaking through the lines and then VOILA! She saves Jon's life and kills the Night King in one fell swoop.

TRIPLE UGH.

Stupid stupid writers... UGH

Okay, here's my take...

1. Arya is not remotely, by any definition, a Deus ex machina. She trained/survived both in the school of hard knocks (essentially a homeless kid of the Seven Kingdoms) and as a Faceless Man assassin for seven years. In fact, she was the only one in Winterfell with the necessary skills to get close enough to the Night King to even have a shot at killing him. We got hints of her abilities over the last couple of seasons as direct foreshadowing (training with Brie, for example), and the writers even acknowledged that they had planned to have Arya kill the Night King three years ago. And just as a reminder:

Arya not only killed the Freys as revenge for the Red Wedding, but two of them (Lothar and Black Walder) were carved into pieces and baked into a pie. Arya then served the pie to their father, Walder Frey, before revealing herself as a Stark (by removing the face of another Frey family member she was wearing at the time) and slitting his throat.

Dues paid.

Mic dropped.

2. The Dothraki's most feared (and effective) weapon is their cavalry charge, right? Why wouldn't they go with what's worked for centuries? It's made clear that most of the defenders, even the commanders, don't really get what they're up against. Jon is constantly reminding them. Iíd say the Dothraki were the Seven Kingdomís equivalent of an artillery barrage. But more importantlyÖwhat a fantastic cinematic device, as story, emotion and pacing. Incredibly well done.

3. Once Jon has a clear shot at the Night King, he is faced with insurmountable and yet, believable, story-consistent obstacles that just pile up around him (good writing), until he is finally pinned down by the Zombie Dragon and unable to be the hero of the day - the expected hero, because we all expected him to kill the Night King - right up until he didn't. They did a really good job of subverting the hero trope (good writing). And because we weren't sure that's what they were doing, the tension kept rising as we tried to figure out who was going to be able to kill the Night King - and save Bran. His survival was very much in doubt. All of that is really good writing.

4. The little girl was foreshadowing.

5. What's the point of Jon coming back from the dead? A...It's not over yet, and B...umÖthe Iron Throne?

6. Arya did save Jon's life, she saved everyone. And it's not like Jon wasn't hip deep in blood - Valyrian steel kills zombies too.

And lastly:

Sorry, but the show is over. Martin isn't writing anymore books. The writers have exactly 6 episodes to wrap everything up - everything. I think they're doing a great job given their parameters. They're concentrating more on characters and arcs, which is good writing. Han Solo's death, by contrast, was bad writing because it wasn't earned; it was just like, "oh, so that happened." Arya's defeat of the Night King, on the other hand, while surprising-ish, was totally earned - and over the course of 7 seasons no less.

Iím not sure itís fair to say the writers suck just because they didnít satisfy specific fan-expectations.



All of this is spot on, and perfectly encapsulates just how bad this was/is, but he really hits the nail on the head beginning at 24:38...

CAUTION: EXTREMELY salty language - if profanity bothers you, definitely do not watch, there's a lot of it. A lot.
 
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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2019, 11:03:48 AM »
Most of us can probably agree on this:  Jon needs a big payoff for his character arc. 

He didn't get it in the last episode, so he needs to get it at some point in the next three.  And it needs to be a big deal, too, some grand thing that makes all his sacrifices worthwhile and rewards him for being the only claimant to the throne who doesn't really want the throne.  Simply taking the Iron Throne as Dany's co-monarch (a la William and Mary) won't be enough.

What I'd like to see:  Dany goes all "Mad King" on us.  It wouldn't be a surprise.  We've seen hints of her mental instability and psychopathy already.  She's a chip off the old block.  She wants the throne for selfish reasons, not because she actually cares about the people of Westeros.  Sam asked Jon in episode 1 or 2 if Dany would make the same sacrifice he did--giving up the throne for the good of the people--and we all know the answer to that.  So I'd like to see Dany embrace her inner Mad King Aerys and need to put down like a rabid dog.  And I'd like Jon to do it.  I'd love to see him stab her in her smarmy selfish heart with tears in his eyes.  It would make for a full-circle series arc.  The "game of thrones" all started when Jamie killed the mad king.  It ends when Jon kills the mad queen.  I doubt we'll get this.  I predict we'll all be left unsatisfied by the conclusion of Jon's arc.  But I'll hold out a sliver of hope until it's all over.

On a related note, the dragons need to die.  Or, at the very least, they need to fly off to Essos or some place and never return.  You can't have monsters roaming around the countryside after all the bad guys have been defeated.

And as much as I like Arya, she probably needs to die too, or at least leave Westeros.  She'll overshadow Jon otherwise, and we can't have that if we want to have a big payoff for Jon.  Maybe she can go to Braavos and be a teacher at the House of Black & White.


My personal take on the controversy.


I agree with your conclusion that the series won't age well.  I've seen the "American Tolkien" descriptions heaped upon GRRM, and I think they're absurd, especially in light of the fact that he intentionally set out to deconstruct Middle-Earth.  But only time will tell.
v  v  v  v  v    Short Stories    v  v  v  v  v    vv FREE! vv
     
Genres: Science Fiction, Fantasy (some day) | Author Website
 

guest1291

  • Guest
Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2019, 03:09:29 PM »
Most of us can probably agree on this:  Jon needs a big payoff for his character arc. 

He didn't get it in the last episode, so he needs to get it at some point in the next three.  And it needs to be a big deal, too, some grand thing that makes all his sacrifices worthwhile and rewards him for being the only claimant to the throne who doesn't really want the throne.  Simply taking the Iron Throne as Dany's co-monarch (a la William and Mary) won't be enough.

What I'd like to see:  Dany goes all "Mad King" on us.  It wouldn't be a surprise.  We've seen hints of her mental instability and psychopathy already.  She's a chip off the old block.  She wants the throne for selfish reasons, not because she actually cares about the people of Westeros.  Sam asked Jon in episode 1 or 2 if Dany would make the same sacrifice he did--giving up the throne for the good of the people--and we all know the answer to that.  So I'd like to see Dany embrace her inner Mad King Aerys and need to put down like a rabid dog.  And I'd like Jon to do it.  I'd love to see him stab her in her smarmy selfish heart with tears in his eyes.  It would make for a full-circle series arc.  The "game of thrones" all started when Jamie killed the mad king.  It ends when Jon kills the mad queen.  I doubt we'll get this.  I predict we'll all be left unsatisfied by the conclusion of Jon's arc.  But I'll hold out a sliver of hope until it's all over.

On a related note, the dragons need to die.  Or, at the very least, they need to fly off to Essos or some place and never return.  You can't have monsters roaming around the countryside after all the bad guys have been defeated.

And as much as I like Arya, she probably needs to die too, or at least leave Westeros.  She'll overshadow Jon otherwise, and we can't have that if we want to have a big payoff for Jon.  Maybe she can go to Braavos and be a teacher at the House of Black & White.


My personal take on the controversy.


I agree with your conclusion that the series won't age well.  I've seen the "American Tolkien" descriptions heaped upon GRRM, and I think they're absurd, especially in light of the fact that he intentionally set out to deconstruct Middle-Earth.  But only time will tell.

I like your ideas for the ending. Definitely something I could get behind. But, I fear none of that will happen. I like how you think though.
 
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PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2019, 12:47:17 AM »


All of this is spot on, and perfectly encapsulates just how bad this was/is, but he really hits the nail on the head beginning at 24:38...

Already watched it.  grint

I first found Mauler with his TLJ rage video. To be fair, this rage thing has become his shtick, and he's always going to hit trending stuff like GoT for views and subs. He did one on Black Panther, which was a bit of a reach, and then turned around and did an Unbridled Praise of Infinity War, which has all the same stupid sh*t as most of Marvel. But, he's funny as hell, and, by and large, I agree with his analysis. I definitely apply his thought process (the in-universe objective analysis) to my own work to root out any goofy sh*t that might sneak in. His detailed take on the new Star Wars stuff is really outstanding.

But...

This video applies to every episode of GoT. I loved the episode in spite of what it is. Did I wince at...everything to do with the trebuchets? Yeah. Or the zombies doing a WWZ up the walls of Winterfell? Yeah. Not that the zombies were doing it mind you, that was great, but that our heroes had no defense against it, had not even thought about an army attacking the walls because, as we all know, that never happens in a medieval world with castles. Or, what about the lingering peril that cast a constant pall over our main characters? It's all standard dramatic framing. And itís been like this throughout the show's run. TWD is the same way. Characters acting against both current character arcs and personalities, and even against situational self-interest, just to create drama or cinematic moments. TV land is rife with this sh*t. The line of unacceptability is, of course, subjective.

Why did the Dothraki charge like that? Because the Dothraki are gonna Dothraki. Best not to think too hard about it. Why is plot armor more effective than real armor? Best not to think too hard on that either. Just assume they found a gap between the plates and move on. We donít really want to dig into The Lord of the Rings like this do we?

So, I went with it and thought it was really well done. I realize, under the circumstances, that's a lot like being valedictorian of summer school - but, hey, it is what it is.  :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
 
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Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2019, 03:08:15 AM »
Why did the Dothraki charge like that? Because the Dothraki are gonna Dothraki.

Somewhere, in some parallel universe, Genghis Khan is doing a facepalm.

If you want to learn about effective leadership, logistical genius, strategic depth, political adeptness, and tactical brilliance, study the life of Genghis Khan and the history of the Mongols.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2019, 11:59:38 AM »
Right up to the point where he didn't, I expected the Night King to lop Bran's head off. I also had this crazy notion they were about to shake hands and the NK would reveal that Bran was in fact a long-lost buddy. They had that kind of eye action going on.

So, the Arya move was a huge surprise, and I had to watch it two or three times to let it really sink in.

As I said earlier in the thread, the show is entertainment. I'm happy they're making epic fantasy shows, and that people are watching them in droves. It all means a bigger potential audience for spec fic writers.

We used to dream of just having this stuff available back in the 70s and 80s. Now we're picking at plot holes and character motivations. (And I'll be the first to admit I was disappointed with the three Hobbit movies - especially their treatment of Bilbo. But if the alternative is NO fantasy or scifi, I'll take flawed any day.)


 

antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2019, 07:19:48 PM »


All of this is spot on, and perfectly encapsulates just how bad this was/is, but he really hits the nail on the head beginning at 24:38...

Already watched it.  grint

I first found Mauler with his TLJ rage video. To be fair, this rage thing has become his shtick, and he's always going to hit trending stuff like GoT for views and subs. He did one on Black Panther, which was a bit of a reach, and then turned around and did an Unbridled Praise of Infinity War, which has all the same stupid sh*t as most of Marvel. But, he's funny as hell, and, by and large, I agree with his analysis. I definitely apply his thought process (the in-universe objective analysis) to my own work to root out any goofy sh*t that might sneak in. His detailed take on the new Star Wars stuff is really outstanding.

But...

This video applies to every episode of GoT. I loved the episode in spite of what it is. Did I wince at...everything to do with the trebuchets? Yeah. Or the zombies doing a WWZ up the walls of Winterfell? Yeah. Not that the zombies were doing it mind you, that was great, but that our heroes had no defense against it, had not even thought about an army attacking the walls because, as we all know, that never happens in a medieval world with castles. Or, what about the lingering peril that cast a constant pall over our main characters? It's all standard dramatic framing. And itís been like this throughout the show's run. TWD is the same way. Characters acting against both current character arcs and personalities, and even against situational self-interest, just to create drama or cinematic moments. TV land is rife with this sh*t. The line of unacceptability is, of course, subjective.

Why did the Dothraki charge like that? Because the Dothraki are gonna Dothraki. Best not to think too hard about it. Why is plot armor more effective than real armor? Best not to think too hard on that either. Just assume they found a gap between the plates and move on. We donít really want to dig into The Lord of the Rings like this do we?

So, I went with it and thought it was really well done. I realize, under the circumstances, that's a lot like being valedictorian of summer school - but, hey, it is what it is.  :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em

PJ Post and VHS, Thank you for posting this great rant. Saved me from wasting my time watching this POS.

Yeah, the final battle between the living and dead should have been the last episode. And it should have been handled far, far better. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss f*cked the show up beyond belief.

All that's left is the battle for the Iron Throne. Who cares? The fight for power in Westeros is more important than the fight for life itself? Are Benioff and Weiss that f*cking stupid? Evidently they are.

Prediction: Cercey is gonna lose. Jon Snow will get the throne. Why? 'Cause Benioff and Weiss ain't Martin, and they will write the script so that the good guy wins.

Where the hell was Robert's bastard, Gendry, in all this mess? He has some claim to the throne. Why not him? Why not Tyrion? Why not Sansa? Hell, why not Samwell? Why not Bronn? Why not Ash?

I mean, at this point, the Night King and the Army of the Dead are gone. How much difference does it make who sits on the Iron Throne?
 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2019, 01:47:24 AM »
Yeah, the final battle between the living and dead should have been the last episode. And it should have been handled far, far better. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss f*cked the show up beyond belief.

All that's left is the battle for the Iron Throne. Who cares? The fight for power in Westeros is more important than the fight for life itself?

I'm guessing you probably weren't a fan of Babylon 5.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

antares

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2019, 07:58:24 AM »
Yeah, the final battle between the living and dead should have been the last episode. And it should have been handled far, far better. David Benioff and D.B. Weiss f*cked the show up beyond belief.

All that's left is the battle for the Iron Throne. Who cares? The fight for power in Westeros is more important than the fight for life itself?

I'm guessing you probably weren't a fan of Babylon 5.
You guess right.
 

PJ Post

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2019, 09:22:22 AM »
For the record...I highly recommend watching the episode.
 

ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2019, 03:23:21 AM »
Anyone watched 8x04? For now, I think I'm just going to pretend none of that stupid, gross stuff happened and the show just ended with all of them happy in Winterfell's Starbucks.
 

Guerin

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2019, 04:18:20 AM »
(SPOILERRRRRRRSSS!)








I cannot defend the latest episode in any way.

What about the dragon killing crossbows that must launch full-sized CA redwood tree trunks with steel tips? Those sailors must be related to Popeye since it seemed to take no time to reload. Maverick and Goose couldn't launch missiles that fast, and their missiles were nowhere near as accurate. Plus, how fast they must have been traveling to be effective puts a modern-day steam catapult system on an aircraft carrier to shame.

How did the enemy's anti-dragon weapons hit before she could see their ships? Do those dragon slaying tree trunks have some sort of magical guidance system to curve around those mountains? Are they just attracted to dragons, like magnetically or something?

I won't even mention the fact that these dragon-slayers were only located at the front of the ships, so going at them from behind might have worked better than taking them head on? Besides, isn't dragon skin supposed to be a lot tougher than that?

Do dragons need NVG to see in the dark? I'm no dragon expert, but I think they'd probably be very good night hunters. A night-time dragon attack on the enemy navy might have made sense? I guess it's been a while, a few thousand years I think, since any of them had an air force, so we can probably forgive their lack of tactics. What excuse did their navy have?

But the real rear-burner was how that prick just ran out on his dog. I'm pretty sure all the dog owners that were watching really got pissed at that. That wolf had saved his pathetic life how many times? He sends the dog off to Siberia with strangers, one ear missing from the latest battle, and doesn't even take the time to give him a farewell hug or pet him? FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! You could have at least left the dog at home with the family.

Compared to all of that, the Starbucks cup on the table was not a biggy :)
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18530917/game-of-thrones-got-season-8-hbo-final-last-of-the-starks-starbucks-coffee-cup-blooper
 

 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 04:25:30 AM by Guerin »

Guerin Zand | Website | Facebook
 

German Translator

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2019, 05:25:26 AM »
Quote
What about the dragon killing crossbows that must launch full-sized CA redwood tree trunks with steel tips?

Well,  someone must also have secretly replaced the ships with replicas made of balsa wood, the way those arrows ripped through thick beams... :icon_rolleyes:

Just a few of the books I have translated (English <-> German)
 

123mlh

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2019, 07:58:36 AM »
(SPOILERRRRRRRSSS!)








But the real rear-burner was how that prick just ran out on his dog. I'm pretty sure all the dog owners that were watching really got pissed at that. That wolf had saved his pathetic life how many times? He sends the dog off to Siberia with strangers, one ear missing from the latest battle, and doesn't even take the time to give him a farewell hug or pet him? FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! You could have at least left the dog at home with the family.

Seriously. That was the point where I thought, now he dies. Weak-minded wimp.

Overall, this latest episode was just awful IMO.
 

ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2019, 09:16:40 AM »
(SPOILERRRRRRRSSS!)








But the real rear-burner was how that prick just ran out on his dog. I'm pretty sure all the dog owners that were watching really got pissed at that. That wolf had saved his pathetic life how many times? He sends the dog off to Siberia with strangers, one ear missing from the latest battle, and doesn't even take the time to give him a farewell hug or pet him? FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! You could have at least left the dog at home with the family.

Seriously. That was the point where I thought, now he dies. Weak-minded wimp.

My first thought was how it would be fun if it was a sign Jon was going to go all mad Targaryen, especially with everyone gushing over him so much and trying to force him to be king. :icon_rofl: Poor Ghost. It looked like Jon didn't even bother to clean him up or anything.  :icon_cry: If they wanted to show that he's accepting his Targaryen side or that he couldn't bring himself to say goodbye or whatever, then they failed, along with pretty much everything else. That scene was just awful.
 

Jeff Tanyard

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2019, 07:16:02 AM »
Last Saturday, I found some spoilers for the last three episodes of the series.  Those spoilers turned out to be accurate for episode 4, so I assume they're accurate for 5 and 6, too.  I won't go into detail, but I will say this:

Spoiler: ShowHide
I won't be pleased at the conclusion of Jon's arc, and I doubt anyone else will be, either.  There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth among the viewers.


On an unrelated note, I'd like to gently remind everyone of just how awesome Mark Addy was on this show.  Just a great actor.   :cool:


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Genres: Science Fiction, Fantasy (some day) | Author Website
 

ingobernable

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2019, 02:22:32 PM »
My reaction to 8x05:  :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :HB :HB :HB :icon_think: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: :icon_rofl: 

Now I'm only hoping for
Spoiler: ShowHide
 Arya to escape this show on her unicorn. Oh, and if she could take the upgraded dragon with her, that would be great.


 
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Captain Cranky

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2019, 05:12:36 PM »
Oh geez. Is watching season 8 worth the angst? I'm one episode away from starting.... :icon_eek:
If you dare nothing, then when the day is over nothing is all you will have gained. -Neil Gaiman
 

Joe Vasicek

Re: Game of Thrones reaction: I must be taking crazy pills
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2019, 05:20:07 PM »