Author Topic: What on Earth?  (Read 3548 times)

Paul Gr

What on Earth?
« on: November 16, 2019, 04:33:26 AM »
What on Earth, or what on earth, that is the question, whether 'tis - oops, got distracted there.
I think that I'm correct in writing 'What on Earth'  as opposed to 'What on earth' as  the correct way of asking how something could possibly happen.
I mean, it does refer to planet Earth, and not earth as in the earth of soil, correct?


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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 05:14:51 AM »
Technically, earth is not capitalized unless other capitalized heavenly bodies are used in the same context. At least, thus spake the grammar book I used when I was teaching. The internet provides examples on both sides of that issue.

Search for earth in the Chicago Manual of Style online. https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/search.epl You'll see some examples. MLA Handbook also provides some examples and seems to follow CMOS on this issue. https://style.mla.org/capitalizing-earth-sun-moon/

CMOS 17th edition is a little different from the older edition quotes online

Quote
In nontechnical contexts, the word earth, in the sense of our planet, is usually lowercased when preceded by the or in such idioms as "down to earth" or "move heaven and earth." When used as the proper name of our planet, especially in context with other planets, it is capitalized and the is usually omitted.
8.140

I would say "What on earth?" follows the idiomatic rules rather than the astronomical one. Of course, you as publisher can certainly have your own style sheet as long as you're consistent.


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TimothyEllis

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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 11:35:38 AM »
I go by the dirt rule.

Substitute dirt for earth and see if it still works.

So move heaven and dirt.

What on dirt?

So, move heaven and earth, and What on Earth?

Earth is a planet. earth is dirt.
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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 03:15:36 AM »
I go by the dirt rule.

Substitute dirt for earth and see if it still works.

So move heaven and dirt.

What on dirt?

So, move heaven and earth, and What on Earth?

Earth is a planet. earth is dirt.
To my ear, "move heaven and dirt" doesn't convey the same sense as "move heaven and earth."

The grammatical distinction is actually more complicated than planet vs. soil.

That said, perhaps it shouldn't be. This is the kind of issue that readers are unlikely to nitpick as long as an author is consistent. So any of us could certainly adopt the distinction you're suggesting in our own writing.


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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2019, 03:20:30 AM »
I go by the dirt rule.

Substitute dirt for earth and see if it still works.

So move heaven and dirt.

What on dirt?

So, move heaven and earth, and What on Earth?

Earth is a planet. earth is dirt.
To my ear, "move heaven and dirt" doesn't convey the same sense as "move heaven and earth."

The grammatical distinction is actually more complicated than planet vs. soil.

That said, perhaps it shouldn't be. This is the kind of issue that readers are unlikely to nitpick as long as an author is consistent. So any of us could certainly adopt the distinction you're suggesting in our own writing.

 grint

I'm not suggesting using move heaven and dirt.

But if dirt fits, you don't put the capital on Earth. If it doesn't, you do.
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PJ Post

Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 04:23:07 AM »
The problem with stuff like this is that even if we get it right according to the style guides, some readers will still think we got it wrong. As often as not, the grammar rabbit hole yields little more than temporal, situational or regional correctness, especially when we consider our global marketplace. As far as I know, the CMoS is intended for journalism, not necessarily fiction. Besides, they’re not so much rules as guidelines - cue Barbossa meme.

As for the OP: in this example, Earth is a place, much like Milwaukee or Arrakis, so it would be capitalized. If the idiom were to change over time to: what in Milwaukee? or what on Arrakis?...we’d still capitalize them. So, CMoS is kind of wrong here, imho.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 04:25:12 AM by PJ Post »
 

cecilia_writer

Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2019, 04:49:05 AM »
I wouldn't dream of capitalising 'earth' in this phrase but maybe that's a British preference.
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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 04:55:55 AM »
The problem with stuff like this is that even if we get it right according to the style guides, some readers will still think we got it wrong. As often as not, the grammar rabbit hole yields little more than temporal, situational or regional correctness, especially when we consider our global marketplace. As far as I know, the CMoS is intended for journalism, not necessarily fiction. Besides, they’re not so much rules as guidelines - cue Barbossa meme.

As for the OP: in this example, Earth is a place, much like Milwaukee or Arrakis, so it would be capitalized. If the idiom were to change over time to: what in Milwaukee? or what on Arrakis?...we’d still capitalize them. So, CMoS is kind of wrong here, imho.
I agree with the general thrust of your idea, though I think CMOS, especially considering the large chunks devoted to manuscript preparation, publishing, etc., is aimed at the publishing industry more than journalism, which tends to use guides like the Associated Press style guide. CMOS is pretty much the standard in publishing--or so I've been told.

That said, as I mentioned above, there's nothing preventing any author (since we are all also publishers) from using his or her own style guide. Publishing houses certainly adapt CMOS to fit their own needs. However, the English teacher in me thinks it's good to know what the accepted usage is and therefor know what we're doing when we deviate.

English grammar is and has always been a mess. Part of the problem is its mixed origins--a Germanic base with a huge infusion of Latin by way of Norman French. All languages borrow from each other, but many have a less diverse base. The problem in compounded by the fact that Latin was in Western Europe the language of learning. Vernacular languages like English were originally considered unworthy of grammatical analysis, much less literary effort. When that began to change, scholars developed English grammar based on Latin grammar, even though Latin is very different from English.

Then English became widespread, leading to a number of the variations you point out.

The distinction CMOS makes in the use of earth isn't logical. It would be more logical if the planet was always capitalized and the soil always wasn't, as you have all suggested. That's just one of many illogical things we could find in standard usage if we wanted to.


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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 05:05:21 AM »
By the way, I've always preferred to capitalize heaven and hell. Editors have usually lowercased them, citing a similar principle to the one we're discussing--in less technical (that is, I guess, non-theological) contexts, they're supposed to be lowercased. I deviate on that one.

I've never been happy with lower case for something like "the president," when that's a substitute for a particular name. That one I follow because it's so generally done that way. But I've never liked it.


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PJ Post

Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 05:28:22 AM »
I think you're right, we can all agree that English is a mess. It's not even taught consistently from school to school or generation to generation, which is why readers will think you're wrong even if you're not. I usually just follow the advice of Word and Grammarly, and if I'm still not sure, or it sounds/looks weird, I rewrite the sentence to remove the offending usage altogether.
 

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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 06:19:18 AM »
I think you're right, we can all agree that English is a mess. It's not even taught consistently from school to school or generation to generation, which is why readers will think you're wrong even if you're not. I usually just follow the advice of Word and Grammarly, and if I'm still not sure, or it sounds/looks weird, I rewrite the sentence to remove the offending usage altogether.
That sounds like as good a system as any.


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RiverRun

Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 10:11:35 AM »
I wouldn't dream of capitalizing 'earth' in this phrase but maybe that's a British preference.

The Free Dictionary says lowercase: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/what+on+earth

I wouldn't capitalize it either. (I'm in the US.) If I saw it in a book it would look wrong to me. Earth is not being used as a proper noun in my opinion. Technically, I suppose it is, but as an expression, I think lowercase has become the convention. I would go with the style manual since that's likely to be most familiar to readers. 

And if you took it to mean, 'what is that on the earth' in the sense of, "what is that on the dirt'? It would still make sense:)

'What in the Sam Hill' on the other hand - definitely a proper noun:)

 

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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 12:04:58 PM »
As for the OP: in this example, Earth is a place, much like Milwaukee or Arrakis, so it would be capitalized. If the idiom were to change over time to: what in Milwaukee? or what on Arrakis?...we’d still capitalize them.

My MC is from a planet called Gaia. So he says "What on Gaia?"

He's now moved to Haven, so it's "What in Haven's name?"
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DrewMcGunn

Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2019, 12:24:58 AM »
By the way, I've always preferred to capitalize heaven and hell. Editors have usually lowercased them, citing a similar principle to the one we're discussing--in less technical (that is, I guess, non-theological) contexts, they're supposed to be lowercased. I deviate on that one.

I've never been happy with lower case for something like "the president," when that's a substitute for a particular name. That one I follow because it's so generally done that way. But I've never liked it.

I've got a tendency to split the baby with my editor on this kind of thing. I use Heaven if the context is religious in nature, heaven if talking about the sky. Generally, when using profanity, hell doesn't get capitalized, although I'm happy to make an exception if someone utters "I'm going to blow you to Hell and gone."

For ranks and titles, generally, if I put "the" in front of them, I don't capitalize. This is one that I adopted from my editor. In dialog, if I'm using someone's rank in lieu of their name, I tend to capitalize. The president gripped the podium until his hands turned white... versus, "Mr. President, you can't mean it..."


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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 01:09:27 AM »
By the way, I've always preferred to capitalize heaven and hell. Editors have usually lowercased them, citing a similar principle to the one we're discussing--in less technical (that is, I guess, non-theological) contexts, they're supposed to be lowercased. I deviate on that one.

I've never been happy with lower case for something like "the president," when that's a substitute for a particular name. That one I follow because it's so generally done that way. But I've never liked it.

I've got a tendency to split the baby with my editor on this kind of thing. I use Heaven if the context is religious in nature, heaven if talking about the sky. Generally, when using profanity, hell doesn't get capitalized, although I'm happy to make an exception if someone utters "I'm going to blow you to Hell and gone."

For ranks and titles, generally, if I put "the" in front of them, I don't capitalize. This is one that I adopted from my editor. In dialog, if I'm using someone's rank in lieu of their name, I tend to capitalize. The president gripped the podium until his hands turned white... versus, "Mr. President, you can't mean it..."
All of those usages are consistent with style guides in general, and that's pretty much the pattern I follow as well. I was just pointing out that some of them aren't logically consistent. Grammatical rules aren't entirely logical, and they do evolve over time.

Most of my editors have wanted to follow CMOS to the letter. In fact, when I used to use CreateSpace editorial services (back when they existed), the editors noted the section in CMOS where the rule they were invoking was located. Later, I had an editor who advocating breaking with CMOS on some issues. For example, he wanted to hyphenate words for clarity which CMOS said should be closed (one word, no hyphen). That seemed like a sensible way to go, but I had to retrain myself to be consistent to the more subjective clarity rule, rather than a fixed "Prefix x is never hyphenated" kind of process.

That said, I suspect that if I were submitting to a trad publisher, I'd format using CMOS unless it was utterly ridiculous to do so, just to play it safe.

I've also had to retrain myself to accept certain CMOS usages that vary from the grammar I used to teach from. For instance, in that text, coordinating conjunctions only worked within sentences, not across sentence boundaries. That meant in practice that you couldn't start a sentence with And or another coordinating conjunction. The current edition of CMOS actually ridicules that rule (though it does also note that it's still taught by 50% of English teachers). The grammar book usage seems more logical to me, but the CMOS alternative does have the advantage of making it easier to control sentence length without having to overuse simple sentence patterns.


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DCRWrites

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Re: What on Earth?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2019, 06:43:28 AM »
I think the biggest thing to remember when there are multiple options is the importance of consistency.

Use "earth" or "Earth" but stick to one throughout the book.

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