Author Topic: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers  (Read 3542 times)

Marti Talbott

Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« on: November 14, 2019, 12:02:01 PM »
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/bookselling/article/81708-amazon-reducing-orders-to-publishers.html

It's a warehouse space problem. However, cutting back on the number of bestsellers might delay shipments.

My initial thought is: I wonder if Amazon hopes to encourage publisher to use their Print-on-demand platform.
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RPatton

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2019, 12:57:02 PM »
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/bookselling/article/81708-amazon-reducing-orders-to-publishers.html

It's a warehouse space problem. However, cutting back on the number of bestsellers might delay shipments.

My initial thought is: I wonder if Amazon hopes to encourage publisher to use their Print-on-demand platform.

Nope. No way a trad publisher would use POD. It's not cost-effective in the slightest considering the costs (not just the costs indies face, but the overhead of running a physical business) and would probably show a loss. Plus POD printing is a lesser quality for an increased price per item.

This is probably, just what it  says, shifting warehouse space in preparation for holiday shopping. Amazon knows exactly what it has to have on hand at any given week, short of a completely unpredictable variable (which is more rare than people think, often times supply is limited because it can artificially boost demand, especially around the holidays).
 

LilyBLily

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2019, 02:44:23 PM »
Print on demand is not economical for large quantities of books. It's sensible for indies who sell relatively few print books and who do not want to warehouse their own stock based on a mistaken hope that many people will buy them. Large publishers have their own warehouses.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2019, 09:24:09 PM »
From the article:

Amazon has been cutting book orders to publishers over the last several weeks. It isn't clear how widespread the reduction in orders is, but several independent publishers contacted by PW reported cuts in their weekly orders since late October. One publisher reported that an order placed last week was about 75% lower than an order placed last year at this time.

When they say independent publishers are they taking about Random House et, al, or smaller publishers?

75% lower is a lot but I don't doubt it is because of what they are predicting they will need for the holidays.  Maybe they are moving to a Just in Time order model.  I wonder what they are making room for, not that it matters for this discussion.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2019, 10:39:35 PM »
Coming soon: drones from amazon that fly to the publisher, pick up the books and drop them at the customer's place.

Okay, there might be a robot at each end as well.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 10:44:55 PM »
They are using robots for the warehouse picking already.  I can't remember the name of the company doing it for them.
I wonder why they haven't worked with the large publishers to drop ship directly to customers.

ETA - I think it might have been iRobot actually.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 11:01:41 PM by notthatamanda »
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 11:41:56 PM »
A combination of robots & self-driving cars. There goes the transport industry.

I've been writing about this stuff in my fiction since 1994. Never thought I'd actually see it.


 

DmGuay

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 11:52:34 PM »
Well, I have some friends who work in trad at small presses, and this information is making the rounds. If you work for a university press or a small regional press and Amazon is suddenly ordering 25 percent of what they normally do? This is enough to shutter the business. Direct sales and other retailers can't make up for it.

Then there is the worry that Amazon will run out of stock, and if they order more, it won't arrive in time for Christmas shipping. If you're buying a book as a gift, that's a deal breaker. If it won't arrive by Christmas, chances are you'll order another title.

This is discouraging and sad, and I will be watching to see how this plays out.

My guess is that the BIg 5 won't be impacted by this. The burden will fall on all of the small and mid-sized publishers. It would be a shame if they folded, because at this point, they are the only ones publishing anything out of the ordinary, taking chances on genre fiction and new authors, and putting out important, but not necessarily best-selling level nonfiction.
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 02:11:12 AM »
Has this ever happened before? I'm wondering why Amazon suddenly doesn't have enough space in its warehouses.

I read some of the comments under the article, and there is an interesting theory. As someone pointed out above, large publishers are never going to turn to POD. However, small publishers might. Some use POD already. Can you visualize an Amazon spokesman saying, "Well, if you printed some of these books through our POD service, they'd always be available, and you'd make more sales that way." I can easily imagine that happening. I don't know if that's part of Amazon's end game or not, but I wouldn't say it's impossible.

In any case, I don't think Amazon is going to start a system that facilitates shipment directly from publishers to readers. That would make publishers more likely to start thinking about creating their own infrastructure to do that and cut Amazon out of the equation.

What would happen if the Big Five withdrew all their books from Amazon and either made Barnes and Noble their primary online outlet or created their own website to do that? They're obviously not going to do that so close to Christmas, but if Amazon pulls enough shenanigans, I could see it happening later. Short of that, I don't see anyone else capturing a large share of the print book market from Amazon.


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notthatamanda

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 02:56:50 AM »
It's just a matter of efficiency.  Drop shipping is common in all sorts of manufacturing.  If the only thing a customer is ordering is one book it could make sense to ship it directly from the publisher's stock.  It could be a fully automated process and the customer would have no idea, as all the paperwork would be Amazon generated.  I've been out of manufacturing for fifteen years and even when I was there, this was an easy process, although somewhat manual.  Publishers would have no reason to cut Amazon out of the process.  Amazon is the store for selling the books. Amazon would be the driving force behind it and reducing inventory and reducing costs would be the reason they would do it.  And they do it for other products already.

I just went on Random House and clicked on a book and they already list 8 places to buy it, with links. Amazon, B&N, Target and Walmart plus some I never heard of.
 

Arches

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 03:28:17 AM »
It's just a matter of efficiency.  Drop shipping is common in all sorts of manufacturing.  If the only thing a customer is ordering is one book it could make sense to ship it directly from the publisher's stock.  It could be a fully automated process and the customer would have no idea, as all the paperwork would be Amazon generated.  I've been out of manufacturing for fifteen years and even when I was there, this was an easy process, although somewhat manual.  Publishers would have no reason to cut Amazon out of the process.  Amazon is the store for selling the books. Amazon would be the driving force behind it and reducing inventory and reducing costs would be the reason they would do it.  And they do it for other products already.

I just went on Random House and clicked on a book and they already list 8 places to buy it, with links. Amazon, B&N, Target and Walmart plus some I never heard of.

This transition to reducing shipment headaches makes sense to me, too. Amazon is already doing this with lots of suppliers, and I can certainly see Amazon pressuring the large publishers to handle shipment or force the big distributors like Ingram to do this for the publishers. The distributors already have big fulfillment departments to handle all the small bookstores they service.

As for the risk that the publishers might try to cut out Amazon from the equation, I don't think that's realistic. Amazon is the most important part of the equation because they have the customers. Some of the big publishers have already tried direct sales, and that's gone nowhere because they can't offer discounts without pissing of the brick and mortar stores, and customers will prefer Amazon where they can get discounts. And free shipping.

Plus, cutting out Amazon only makes sense if all the big publishers act in concert. Which would surely open them up to another antitrust case.
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2019, 04:15:09 AM »
Leaving big selling new releases out of the equation there is also the option for publishers to do runs of hundreds or thousands and keep the inventory at their own facilities, enabling them to do same or next day drop ship for Amazon or other sellers.  Whether or not they have the facilities to do that, or want to invest in it, is another story.
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2019, 04:26:54 AM »
I stand corrected. It sounds as if there might be many options, including shipment direct from publisher to customer via Amazon.

It is, as has been suggested, the smaller publishers that will have the most difficulty with something like that. I'm hoping a solution can be worked out.


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Simon Haynes

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2019, 04:30:44 AM »
The problem with trade publishers and POD is that most contracts have a reversion clause.  If they let the book go out of print (don't organise another print run), the author can ask for their rights back.

So, the last thing an author wants is publishers using POD to keep a title in print forever, one copy at a time.

The above is how I got the rights back for my first four novels.

(I'm sure most contracts have changed nowadays though - they wouldn't revert ebook rights, for a start.)

 

Arches

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2019, 08:04:58 AM »
The problem with trade publishers and POD is that most contracts have a reversion clause.  If they let the book go out of print (don't organise another print run), the author can ask for their rights back.

So, the last thing an author wants is publishers using POD to keep a title in print forever, one copy at a time.

The above is how I got the rights back for my first four novels.

(I'm sure most contracts have changed nowadays though - they wouldn't revert ebook rights, for a start.)

You're right that the reversion clauses have changed in recent years, and it's probably impossible for most trad authors to get their rights back that way anymore.
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2019, 03:24:37 PM »
Yeah, I've heard that they're basically a complete rights grab now, in perpetuity. You can't blame them, because with the rise of the internet and streaming services always looking for content and whatnot, locking up the rights forever makes total sense.

But nobody will ever know just how grateful I am that my contract was written a few years before the rise of ebooks, and that my publisher never really had an ebook strategy. Within a week of getting my rights back (2011), I'd published the four novels to Amazon KDP and I've never looked back. I've written six more books in that series, and would not have started any one of them had someone else still held the rights to the first four.

Well, okay, I might have started a series called Spal Hacejock.



 

ilamont

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2019, 05:34:43 AM »
What's the root cause? Publishers are making it out to seem like Amazon is deliberately cutting their sales. Actually looks like their predictive algorithms have determined demand this year won't be as much as before for certain titles, therefore it's not necessary to order as many copies.

It's a problem if Amazon's algorithm screws up and orders 500 units and sells all copies. But what if Amazon orders 1,000 units and sells only 300? Then both Amazon and the publisher have a big, costly problem on their hands.

I am a small publisher who supplies Amazon through Amazon Advantage, and I've seen the algorithm make mistakes that go both ways. The worst thing about Amazon over-ordering is the publisher has to invest a lot in printing and shipping costs to get the inventory to Amazon FCs, then watch the inventory sit there for many months, unsold, while long-term storage fees build up. It's a huge cost to me.

Frankly, after dealing with both situations over the past several years, I'd rather they underestimate than overestimate -- at least if they underestimate I can sell copies on Amazon Seller (fulfilled directly by my company, instead of by Amazon) or through my website. 

Getting back to the root causes: There's a glut of books in the market, and the number of people reading books is declining thanks to other media options and a lack of time. There might be other things going on that weren't noted in the article. What publishers should be doing, instead of complaining about Amazon not ordering as many copies as they hoped, is working on building demand on Amazon or even better getting more readers to order direct from their websites.

My two cents.

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notthatamanda

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2019, 05:48:17 AM »
Your perspective is interesting, thanks for sharing it.  Do you actually own a facility where you print actual books? I'm just getting into the print end of the business and I don't have aspirations to print everything myself one day, but I'm just interested in how it all works.
 

ilamont

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2019, 06:00:22 AM »
Your perspective is interesting, thanks for sharing it.  Do you actually own a facility where you print actual books?

No, I contract with printers who specialize in offset book printing or other types of materials. TPS book printing is one of my providers, I've also used GotPrint.com for marketing materials. For certain types of products I use a local printer located a few miles away. They also store some of my inventory.

Printing is a very mature industry, there are lots of choices out there.
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DmGuay

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2019, 11:25:52 PM »
The problem with trade publishers and POD is that most contracts have a reversion clause.  If they let the book go out of print (don't organise another print run), the author can ask for their rights back.

So, the last thing an author wants is publishers using POD to keep a title in print forever, one copy at a time.

The above is how I got the rights back for my first four novels.

(I'm sure most contracts have changed nowadays though - they wouldn't revert ebook rights, for a start.)

Author friends tell me today that rights rarely ever revert back, unless the author has an excellent lawyer, because even having an ebook copy out there for sale now constitutes "in print."
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Amazon Reducing Orders to Publishers
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 01:17:30 AM »
Yep, an author would have to specify a minimum turnover per year below which the book is considered out of print (which has been done before), rather than 'available', which was the problematic language.

Of course, with electronic storage and pod and ebooks, publishers would be nuts to agree to any kind of reversion, so glwt.

(I'm not a lawyer, of course, and these are just my ramblings. I did investigate everything carefully before I signed my original trad-pub deal, and I still have a couple of books on contracts for authors that I bought at the time. Even so, that was 15 years ago now.)