Are sales promos turning away from international and wide markets?

[alhawke]

For the past two years, I've noticed that ebook promotions are targeting the US market and Amazon more and more. This has always been the case, but it's worsening. I continue to sell in outside markets via Bookbub ads, but sales are getting lackluster in the outer markets. In my recent sales blitz, for example, I sold 162 books in Amazon and FIVE in outside retailers. Five. It didn't used to be this terrible four years ago. BookBub does a little better job outside Zon, but not a whole lot.

I believe the main promotion companies, BookBub & WrittenWord Media, are building a conscious effort to target an audience primarily in US Amazon. They always have, but I think things are getting worse. Perhaps they're focusing more on KU writers? Have you all seen this? Or is it just my books?

The problem is that Amazon sales for Indies are dropping in general and we need outside markets. If you're entrenched in KU, you could look at this post and say so what? I get that, but I think competition is important for our survival. I mean, with recent changes on Zon with ranking, sales drop via iPhone app, banner changes, "look inside"--need I go on?--I think the smaller players like Apple and B&N are important for Indies.

I still pull in a pretty decent monthly revenue from Kobo with their promos (particularly BOGO events) and B&N via BookBub ads. I'd love to know if any of you have marketing advice for outside markets? This month, I'm focusing ads with a kobo promotion and B&N promo, for example.

[TimothyEllis]

The problem is that Amazon sales for Indies are dropping in general and we need outside markets.

Where are you getting that from?

[alhawke]

The problem is that Amazon sales for Indies are dropping in general and we need outside markets.

Where are you getting that from?

I'm talking about the ebook market in general. All sales have gotten worse over the last few years and it seems promo companies are turning all energy towards the US Amazon market. That's my thought and point, and what I've seen with my sales. But maybe it's different for others? 

[Bill Hiatt]

Historically, Bookbub has been much more likely to pick wide authors than KU authors. Has that changed? If so, then it sounds as if you're right. If not, then I question how BB could be emphasizing Amazon US more if it's still favoring wide authors. The only reason to do that would be if Bookbub had a fairly large number of subscribers interested in other outlets. And if that's true, it seems unlikely that its focus is really changing.

In one of Data Guy's last reports before disappearing behind a paywall, he suggested that indie successes were continuing, but that there was a perception indie success was declining because some authors who had been successful earlier were seeing lesser results. (He didn't speculate on why some were moving down as others were moving up.)

Unfortunately, we don't have enough data to even begin to analyze the situation, but I have to tell you that I've hard complaints (and had some of my own) about poor wide markets since 2012, when I first started.

I did notice more wide sales the first time I went wide, as well as more international sales. My very first month, with no advertising and no clue how to market, I picked up sales in the UK, France, and Germany. Once I was wide, I also started getting sales in places like Apple, BN, and Kobo--about 42% of my total. But that changed the moment I figured out some advertising basics, at which point that dropped to 10%. I went Select for a while, then made one more shot at wide that lasted several months.

Even back then (which was before KU), Amazon was 90%+ of my sales. When I did a general promo, like ENT (several years ago), almost all my sales were on Amazon. When I tried to build a promo around another site, I got no sales. In other words, my experience years ago was similar to yours now. If it were just me, I'd say it might have been because I was a prawn, but I heard exactly the same thing from a lot of wide authors back then.

There have always been variations in how different authors performed in the same markets. And those performances have changed over time, with people reporting greater or lesser success. And I bet there are still authors doing well wide, though we'll see in any chime in.

I know that's not very helpful. I wish I had a comprehensive answer that explained what was happening to you and how to fix it. But we don't have anything like enough data for that.

Oh, one thing you could look at is BookFunnel, where I know you're active. I don't personally get many sales from international markets through their sales promos, though I do get a fair number of international mailing list subscriptions from the newsletter promo, so I know international readers are looking at BookFunnel. Do you see any difference there between how many international sales you used to get and how many you are getting now? That might be one way to test the theory that the shift is something BB and others are causing by policy changes or whether other market forces may be involved.

[alhawke]

Oh, one thing you could look at is BookFunnel, where I know you're active. I don't personally get many sales from international markets through their sales promos, though I do get a fair number of international mailing list subscriptions from the newsletter promo, so I know international readers are looking at BookFunnel. Do you see any difference there between how many international sales you used to get and how many you are getting now?

Yes. I get more sales via Bookfunnel and my personal newsletter outside of Amazon US and in wide retailers than promos like ENT, Robin Reads, etc. I also still sell via ads. That's what makes me think promos are giving up on outside markets.?? But I only have my own data to know for sure.

[LilyBLily]

The BookBubs I got a couple of years ago were all international and the sales on Kobo were healthy. I seldom get any international sales outside of what used to be called Commonwealth countries, whether or not I do a promotion. 

[TimothyEllis]

The problem is that Amazon sales for Indies are dropping in general and we need outside markets.

Where are you getting that from?

I'm talking about the ebook market in general. All sales have gotten worse over the last few years

But the only stats available are Trad, and it's the Trads which are going backwards, mainly because they significantly overprice their eBooks.

You can't judge Indie sales based on Trad statistics.

DataGuy proved that back in 2018.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

The sales promotion sites rely on getting results to remain a valid option and still attract business. Possibly, they now focus more on Amazon and the US purely as a means to try and get those results? It doesn't necessarily mean the wide market is failing, or indeed indie sales are declining, they're just putting their bet on the best horse.
Not so long ago it was unthinkable that someone wouldn't make a killing with a Bookbub promo. You hear stories these days of exactly that happening. If we had a thread analysing the market and indie industry now, I reckon the opinions would differ enormously from ten years ago.

[Bill Hiatt]

Oh, one thing you could look at is BookFunnel, where I know you're active. I don't personally get many sales from international markets through their sales promos, though I do get a fair number of international mailing list subscriptions from the newsletter promo, so I know international readers are looking at BookFunnel. Do you see any difference there between how many international sales you used to get and how many you are getting now?

Yes. I get more sales via Bookfunnel and my personal newsletter outside of Amazon US and in wide retailers than promos like ENT, Robin Reads, etc. I also still sell via ads. That's what makes me think promos are giving up on outside markets.?? But I only have my own data to know for sure.

Some data is better than no data.

I'm trying to figure out why newsletter promotions would focus more on Amazon US if sales are available in international markets and on other vendors. Does it cost more to send email out to a broader spectrum of subscribers? No. I suppose its possible that their subscriber bases are shifting more toward Amazon US for whatever reason. That's certainly possible. In general, email promos are declining in effectiveness. Maybe there's some reason they are declining faster in some countries and markets. It could be.

It might be worth exploring the question of why BookFunnel seems to be more effective. Last month, I did a major promotion on the first book in a trilogy and put all three on sale. All three were also advertised on BookFunnel (in your promo, in fact). The results were interesting.

Precisely because the first book was being advertised all over, it's hard to draw conclusions from its sales. But the other two books did relatively well also. It's possible that a few people who came in from newsletter promos clicked to buy the whole trilogy, but I've seen very little of that in the past. Follow-on sales usually happen later. It's clear some non-BookFunnel buyers are involved, because the number of sales is higher than the reported BookFunnel clicks. But based on past experience with related books in a thematically matched BF promo, it's quite possible that over 50% of BookFunnel clicks resulted in sales. It's also possible that BF accounts for a significant number of sales on the first book, likely more than any single newsletter promo did.

Of last month's sales, nine were international--three on each book. There's a good chance that at least some of those came from BF, probably more than any single newsletter promo. (That's speculation, of course.) When I get time, I'll look back at previous BF promos to see if international sales may have resulted from them.

Anyway, my preliminary assessment would be that my experience may provide additional evidence for the idea that BF does better than newsletter promos in terms of international sales.

[TimothyEllis]

It's possible Australian sales are down across the board because of our lousy exchange rates at the moment.

I'm getting a bonus by converting US$ to A$, but buying a book in the AUS store is now expensive in comparison. US$5.99 is A$9.45.

Paperback conversion prices are just ridiculous.

[Bill Hiatt]

Australia used to be my second best market.

Last month, it was UK, followed by Canada.

This month, it's Germany.

Maybe that's the exchange rate.

[TimothyEllis]

Australia used to be my second best market.

Last month, it was UK, followed by Canada.

This month, it's Germany.

Maybe that's the exchange rate.

Very possible. It's been slowly getting worse all year.

[alhawke]

The sales promotion sites rely on getting results to remain a valid option and still attract business. Possibly, they now focus more on Amazon and the US purely as a means to try and get those results?

I think that is it. Promos go where the money goes. Why is the money emphasis in the US Amazon market? Perhaps it's the best bet overall for sales. But with everything going on with Amazon, I'd love to look elsewhere for focus.

Kobo does very well in the international market. I'd guess if you look at %, they have a far higher % of sales internationally than Amazon (I'm not talking total, I'm talking slice of the pie). I don't see much emphasis on Kobo by promo companies.

Writers have reported that KU books are harder to land BookBub promotions. That would indicate that there's been a push to at least try to appeal wide by BookBub?

It's possible Australian sales are down across the board because of our lousy exchange rates at the moment.

Hmm, interesting, something I never even looked at or considered.

[littleauthor]

I advertise to the AU market and because they have always been reliable buyers, I set my AU prices and CA prices lower than the US exchange rate dictates. I get a lower royalty but still within 70% and I think I make up for it in steady sales. I've done this on the wide retailers as well.

My wide experience this year has been terrible for everything that isn't spicy romance. That seems to sell without effort. My mysteries and sweet romances don't sell. I've applied for a Kobo promo to get some sort of lift off but if they turn me down, (again), back into KU I go.

It comes down to time and willingness to jump through the myriad of hoops to reach readers on the wide platforms. I've done the "leave your books in for 3 years, apply for promos often, apply for BB often, spend money on BB CPC ads, buy books that tell you how to Kill It Wide"--and nothing works or works for long. That's been my experience.

[Wonder]

For the past two years, I've noticed that ebook promotions are targeting the US market and Amazon more and more. This has always been the case, but it's worsening.

I can't speak to non-US sales, as they've always been a modest part of my income (10-15%), but my non-Amazon income continues to rise, while Amazon is dropping/underperforming. I use promo sites monthly, I post wide links, and those wide links seem to lead to sales. A few things that may be helping:

- I model my covers and blurbs in line with trad pub books.
- I've raised my prices to $5.99 to avoid the whole "these books look cheap and must be low quality" thing. On Kindle, cheap books can juice the algorithm but I suspect wide buyers view them with some suspicion, unless they're part of a sale.
- I don't write in super-nichey niches that are popular on KU.  I'm more general mystery, general cozy, general space opera.
- I revamped my landing pages and back-matter to make sure that when people "click through" to find their next book in a series, they can find links to their preferred retailer easily.  It's not enough publish wide, you need to set up the infrastructure that supports wide readers.

I'd love to see a promo newsletter that targets non-US readers. If that ever happens, I'll definitely be a customer.

Wonder

[Jeff Tanyard]

It's possible Australian sales are down across the board because of our lousy exchange rates at the moment.

Michele Bullock hasn't kept pace with Jay Powell.  Australian consumers are paying the price.   

[writeway]

I'm another one who disagrees about ebook sales going down for indies on Amazon. That's a big generalization and I do see it a lot lately but it's not true IMO. Yeah, overall sales might be down for many because of the things going on in the world but it's not an "Amazon" thing. It's just that Amazon has such a huge chunk of the market so a drop on Amazon is of course going to seem bigger than it is. But I can speak for myself that my sales are doing okay. I had a great summer and doing decently now. Some authors are really struggling, some in between, and some are doing extremely well but the "ebook sales are down thing" seems to come from seeing some authors on social media or whatever mention having bad sales, not from any real data because we all know there isn't any real data that focuses on indie sales and the few surveys that do only survey a handful of authors. There are thousands upon thousands of Indies on Amazon. So yes, of course, some authors are seeing low Amazon sales but a few authors having issues does not mean Amazon sales are down for indies. That's a big reach. Amazon is still going strong for many authors so I don't see an overall drop. Just because some authors aren't selling or their sales have dwindled doesn't mean it's a drop overall.

Next, I'm an American. I have always felt empathy though for those authors outside the US as you guys seem to be cut out of different things not just promotions but also other publishing opportunities so I get it. But this promo site thing has nothing to do with International or American authors. It has to do with WIDE readers. It's simple. These sites cater to Amazon because that's where most of the readers of these sites shop. They have to cater to the retailer their subscribers want. It's supply and demand. Wide readers don't buy off these sites except for Bookbub. Bookbub seems to be the only promo site where you can get some decent wide sales or downloads but these others, no. You most likely will get trickles but it has nothing to do with where authors are from or Amazon itself. These sites are not trying to cut International authors or wide authors out they need to make MONEY. A business has to focus on their bottom line. Most of the promo sites don't even advertise to wide retailers BECAUSE there are no wide readers on these sites. If there were as many wide readers subscribed to these sites as Amazon readers then the sites would target wide retailers more. Bookbub seems to be the only one who can get those subscribers. You see how when other sites try to target wide readers, the promo flops because there'll be 100 downloads for Amazon and 2 or 3 for the other places. This, again, comes down to wide readers.

As someone who has been wide and in KU, wide readers don't follow promo sites. It's clear as day that that's not where they find their books. Wide readers are different from Amazon readers. Amazon readers subscribe to these sites by the hundreds. So it's a case of wide readers just not being at these sites not that sites are purposely catering to Amazon or US authors. It's not that deep. It's just business. 

People don't understand how hard it is to build a subscriber list for these sites and most cut out wide because they don't wanna spend time and money on trying to gather subscribers and ending up with only 3 people. That's why you don't see any wide-only promo sites because they wouldn't make any money because no readers would be there.

It's just supply and demand. I suggest wide authors look at other ways to move books. These sites have never catered to wide books because most of the readers are in KU or they want freebies. It's difficult to have a full-priced wide book compete on a site of books that's free or "free" in KU. I know myself that for my wide books, they did nothing on these sites but my KU books and freebies do.

Wide authors are better off writing very long, long, long series and having permafrees and advertising those. If I were still wide I wouldn't spend time promoting my paid books. I'd put all my money and effort into promoting freebies. Unless you're mastering FB or Amazon ads it's tough to move a paid wide book even at 99 cents.

I will say this, I see more wide authors talking about lower sales than I do KU authors right now. Yeah, some KU authors are seeing fewer returns but most of it I see is wide, and commonsense tells me it's inflation and everything that's affecting wide books more because it's easier (and less expensive) for someone to get a KU subscription or a library membership and get as many books as they want for a much cheaper price than to pay $4.99 and up for one book. Many readers can't do that right now and the voracious ones who read a lot won't. I used to buy fiction books now I am a KU subscriber because no way I'd be able to read all the books I want if I had to pay for each one. I love shorts and novellas so I can read 10 or more books a week if I want. I definitely read at least five a week especially when I am on a writing break. If I bought 10 books at $4.99 I would spend $50 a week. I can get a KU subscription for SIX MONTHS for $59. Also, 10 books a week at $4.99 each for a month is $200 and I can get a YEAR-LONG KU subscription for less than that and read all the books I want.

So it's a lot of reasons why some authors aren't selling. Some reasons are beyond their control and others not but ebooks are still selling whether through a subscription service or through individual purchases. The promo site thing is just a matter of supply and demand and they've never been good for wide authors in turns of ROI unless it's a free book.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

Australia used to be my second best market.

Last month, it was UK, followed by Canada.

This month, it's Germany.

Maybe that's the exchange rate.

Are your books in Germany in English or translated? I've trad-selled well in Germany for years, but with translations. But I've heard rumours that English language books do okay. Wondering if I should try some promos...

[Bill Hiatt]

Australia used to be my second best market.

Last month, it was UK, followed by Canada.

This month, it's Germany.

Maybe that's the exchange rate.

Are your books in Germany in English or translated? I've trad-selled well in Germany for years, but with translations. But I've heard rumours that English language books do okay. Wondering if I should try some promos...

My books are all in English.

Germany is a distant second because one paperback sold there, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

In times when I had more international sales, Germany was nearly always represented, but my primary source of revenue has always been the US market.

[Bill Hiatt]

I'm inclined to agree with writeway's premise that promo sites focus on Amazon US because that's where the subscribers are. But that doesn't entirely explain why someone like AL Hawke is experiencing diminishing international sales.

It's true most countries are experiencing higher inflation right now, making something like KU more attractive. That might impact wide sales. Since we have little data, it's ahrd to tell what's going on.

I'm still interested in the question of why international and wide readers seem to be more attracted to BookFunnel than to the newsletter promos. (Most promos that designate a store are Amazon-centric, but there are enough promos specifically designated as wide for me to think there must be an audience. As I said above, my newsletter signups from BF include a lot of international readers, and it's probably I pick up some from sales as well.

[alhawke]

As someone who has been wide and in KU, wide readers don't follow promo sites.

Probably. Not BookBub, which shines away from KU, but in general I think this is true. But I can tell you, doing over 30 promos in the last 5 yrs, that my books used to sell 20% wide 80% Amazon. Now it's 1% wide 99% Amazon. And that's the main promo companies (Written Word Media, ENT, Robin Reads, etc). This problem is getting worse. It could be that promos are pouring all their efforts into the big sale and are abandoning wide markets. International sales also have taken a hit. These are my personal stats. I could be an outlier? But I think I'm right because I still sell the same way wide and international via ads.

I'm personally not doing worse this year. I'm doing better. But that's because of the increase in quantity of things I sell. If I look at actual book sales based on promos, promos are worse.

I'm still interested in the question of why international and wide readers seem to be more attracted to BookFunnel than to the newsletter promos.

I see that trend with Bookfunnel too. I think Bookfunnel is similar to your own personal newsletter. In fact, it's like a bunch of co-author "personal newsletters". Those are more of a hodgepodge of readers intl and wide. That's my take.

If promos are failing wide, my main recourse is to shift more towards ads--hopefully they will continue to work. That seems to be the direction I'm heading.

(Btw, I should add that most of what I've said in this post has to do with 99c promos. Free promos garner plenty of hits everywhere, but lately I'm abandoning free after not seeing a huge rise in other book sales. Sometimes I think people just download them for the cover in their kindle ).

[Post-Crisis D]

BookFunnel is an author services website whereas the big promo sites are basically "cheap books on Amazon!"

I think that's the difference in audience attraction there.  Readers sign up as a subscriber to the big promo sites to get notified of cheap books in your preferred genres.  On the flip side, readers likely only signed up to a list associated with BookFunnel because you signed up on an author's website to be notified of their new releases or sales.  (If an author you signed up with does a group promo, then you find out about other books by other authors.  Otherwise, you're really only hearing from the author you signed up with.)

I would guess that maybe wide authors are more likely to be using BookFunnel than Amazon-exclusive authors, especially now that BookFunnel also allows you to sell direct.

[Post-Crisis D]

It could be that promos are pouring all their efforts into the big sale and are abandoning wide markets.

I would not rule that out.  Borrowing from your stats, if the promo sites earn 80% from Amazon and 20% from wide, is it worth the effort chasing after that 20% when they could focus on increasing the 80%?  Plus, if they are making any referral income from other purchases a reader may make, they are possibly getting 90% or more of their income from Amazon and 10% or less from wide sales.

That is, if you go to Amazon to buy a book, you might also buy a sweater or a TV or something else.  If you go to B&N or Kobo to buy a book, you might also buy another book?

If you want a good ROI, you are probably better off sending people mainly to Amazon because, if you do, you have a better chance of referral revenue from additional sales than you would otherwise.  If you send someone to B&N, you might get referral revenue from a book sale, but you're missing out on revenue from a potential washing machine sale.

[Bill Hiatt]

Those are some interesting insights about BookFunnel.

I'll throw out an interesting statistic. Among the upcoming fantasy sales promos, there are 51 general and only two Amazon specific (one aimed at KU and one aimed at Amazon free days). But that makes perfect sense. Someone hosting a promo isn't going to be getting affiliate earnings from Amazon. There's really no downside to opening it to both select and wide authors. All things being equal, the more authors in the promo, the more visibility the promo gets. So unless you're doing something like trying to boost your own KU pages read, there's really not much point in limiting the pool of authors to which you offer the promo.

If indeed only BookBub is still catering much to wide, it would make sense that international readers might use BF to find more titles, especially as titles in sales promos are often discounted. The selection is often quite different from what BookBub would offer, anyway, so even BB subscribers might have some incentive to look.

[alhawke]

A few authors try to cater Bookfunnel to specific products. You mentioned KU. I've been in a couple paperback and audiobook promos (I'm even considering running an audio one). And I've seen them try to attract wide. I've seen Kobo and B&N only too. I tried a B&N way back when and it didn't do great. The paperback ones didn't sell huge either. I haven't seen an international only emphasis--yet??

It's tricky whether specific co-author promos work better than the giant ones. I'm currently in a giant one (over 200 book entries) and I think it's garnering some sales (international, interestingly enough). Generally I go for broad and big because I try to limit to 1-2 monthly for my newsletter.

Interestingly enough, I really began using Bookfunnel to give readers something interesting in my newsletter more than utilize its marketing power. But I am starting to see more sales lately--might be because readers are starting to recognize my stuff from prior promotions?

[TimothyEllis]

I'm thinking we need a Bookfunnel thread which starts off with how to use it, or what sort of things are being done there.

Because I've got very little idea of what you're talking about. I've never even been to the site.

And I'm assuming you're talking about free promos?

[Bill Hiatt]

The promos are all free to run--after paying a modest fee for one of the plans--if that's what you mean. You can run any kind of sales promo you want, however. It doesn't just have to be for free books. https://bookfunnel.com/pricing/

Which plan you use depends on what you want to do. $100 a year for the midlist author plan sounds like a lot, but it also does a lot. For that, you can run yourself and/or join an unlimited number of promos, through which you can either encourage sales, KU reads, etc., or you can collect newsletter subscriptions through the use of a reader magnet. Considering how poorly a lot of newsletter promos do now, BF is a comparatively better value.

Keeping in mind that I'm a prawn, I find that BF promos have a higher conversion rate from clicks to sales than AMS ads do. Sure, the audience is much smaller, and the conversion rate is higher for discounted books, but since you aren't paying anything per click, it's easier to get a decent ROI over the course of a year.

I notice that in months in which I'm not running a BF promo, (like this one) my sales are lower.  The drop is comparable to what I used to get if paused AMS ads as an experiment. Whether that outcome is  scalable is debatable, though, and since my sales are relatively low, anyway, I don't imagine a higher selling author would see quite that drastic a result. But BF sales are, at the very least, a nice supplement. With a discounted trilogy and a promo with a matching theme, I've seen conversion rates from clicks to sales higher than 50%.

BF is also a nice newsletter building. It's good to switch reader magnets from time to time (which I don't do often enough). The same one eventually gets diminishing returns. But I have gotten significant signups over the years. They come from a variety of countries also, a clue that the audience on BF is international.

[littleauthor]

I have the midlist subscription to Bookfunnel and it was the best spend I made this year. I use it for newsletter building and ARC delivery but after reading this, I think I've barely scratched the surface of what I can do with it.

Is there a thread? I wouldn't mind learning more.

[Bill Hiatt]

I thought there was one, but Timothy indicates there isn't. Why don't you ask any questions you have in a separate thread, and we can go from there. I know several of the authors here use BF, so you should be able to get good answers.

[Lorri Moulton]

BookFunnel has a lot of information on their site, and if you need help...they usually respond to emails within 24 hours. Often sooner.

I use them primarily for sales promos and Kickstarter promos.  I haven't done the newsletter promos or swaps, mainly due to being busy with Kickstarter campaigns this year.

[Bill Hiatt]

BF has so many different possibilities that I haven't yet met anyone who used them all at the same time. There's plenty of room for authors to customize their approach based on their needs.