Steps for audiobook production

[alhawke]

I'm dipping my toes in audiobooks. Probably going to use Findaway so they'll be covering a lot of these things. But...

ISBN: I'm guessing I need one in the USA? But I'm also guessing it's similar to books where you can get away with not having one, risking certain unusual circumstances. Since I bought ISBN's four years ago for USA, I'm going to use one for my audio. Pros/cons of my own ISBN for audio?

Copyright page: Do I create one or provide one to the narrator? If I do it, does anybody have a link of samples that I can copy? There's gotta be some standard for audiobooks. Does Findaway just do this for me?

Copyrighting audio: Since my manuscript is copyrighted in US, do I need to copyright the audio again? I'm guessing the answer is no??

Does any of you add music (royalty free or paid)?

Almost forgot: End credits? Or any references you guys talk about to other books? "Also by"?

[Bill Hiatt]

I know I didn't buy my own ISBN for audio editions, but I see one for each title in my Findaway dashboard, so obviously, one gets supplied.

With Findaway distributed to pretty much the whole universe, I'm not sure what the benefit if having one's own ISBN would be. It's not like a paperback, where you want to use KDP and Ingram for distribution.

I'm not familiar with copyright law on that point, but if you have the content already copyright, you should be relatively safe, or so I think.

I personally don't add music. I have heard that in some countries, audiobook publishing can be really elaborate--music, multiple narrators, etc. I've heard Germany mentioned in that context. But I think that's not even expected in most markets.

It makes sense to credit the narrator, though some of them may do that automatically. (I also include a narration credit on the cover, near the bottom.)

I wasn't sure I would do all my books in audio, so I didn't mention them. Mentioning other works is probably not advisable unless you want to commit to doing them in audio at some point. I wouldn't do that until you're sure audio will be worth it for you.

[Post-Crisis D]

Copyrighting audio: Since my manuscript is copyrighted in US, do I need to copyright the audio again? I'm guessing the answer is no??

Manuscripts and sound recordings are considered separate works.  So, ideally, you should register both.

I am not a lawyer so I don't know how it works exactly.  You need to have a work registered before you can file an infringement claim in court, so if someone infringes on your audio book, does that mean you can't sue until you register it?  Or can you sue based on the book's copyright being registered?  But then would you be unable to collect damages based on the infringement on the sound recording and only collect on the infringement of the book?  I don't know the answer to those questions.  That's why I would think it is probably best to register both.

[alhawke]

Manuscripts and sound recordings are considered separate works.  So, ideally, you should register both.

That's what I was reading. It seems so odd to copyright it twice. Once should suffice in proving ownership?? But I get that this is a different medium. And if I do copyright it, I have to wait till it's "published" as audio, right? That's how written copyright works.

I am not a lawyer so I don't know how it works exactly.  You need to have a work registered before you can file an infringement claim in court, so if someone infringes on your audio book, does that mean you can't sue until you register it?  Or can you sue based on the book's copyright being registered?  But then would you be unable to collect damages based on the infringement on the sound recording and only collect on the infringement of the book?  I don't know the answer to those questions.  That's why I would think it is probably best to register both.

Hmm. Do most of you all copyright both the paper manuscript and the audio? Do you do that Post-Crisis D? Tough question 'cause I know some of you don't bother copyrighting books at all.

[Post-Crisis D]

Manuscripts and sound recordings are considered separate works.  So, ideally, you should register both.

That's what I was reading. It seems so odd to copyright it twice. Once should suffice in proving ownership?? But I get that this is a different medium. And if I do copyright it, I have to wait till it's "published" as audio, right? That's how written copyright works.

I think you may be able to register it as an unpublished work just like you can with a manuscript.

Hmm. Do most of you all copyright both the paper manuscript and the audio? Do you do that Post-Crisis D? Tough question 'cause I know some of you don't bother copyrighting books at all.

I don't currently have any audiobooks.  But I do register the copyrights on my books and newsletters, so I likely would as well for audiobooks.

[Bill Hiatt]

It's been a while since I've on the copyright office website--one of these days, I'm going to have to catch up on my backlog. But I seem to remember that the form asks if the work is already published.

Ah, here's a question from Copyright Alliance

Full Question: What is the Copyright Office policy regarding registration of published and unpublished works?

Answer: The Office strongly encourages creators to register their works before they are published, because this avoids much of the confusion concerning publication and the treatment of published works.

So it appears I was right about that.

As far as audiobooks are concerned, I suppose it is better to copyright than not to copyright. Interesting twist that people should be aware of if they go with some random producer:

The owners of the copyrights in a sound recording are the performers and the producers. If you hire someone to be the voice of your audiobook, that person owns the rights in his performance. If the audiobook is not recorded and produced by you, the individuals or entities who engineered and produced the audiobook own that element of the sound recording copyright.

https://www.sidebarsaturdays.com/2017/07/01/httpwp-mep7vddb-td/
The agreements we have with large producers like ACX normally transfer all rights to us and treat the recording as work for hire, so this issue doesn't come up. But if you use some small indie, make sure the contract includes provisions for that. Otherwise, you still own the rights to the content, but the audio becomes a derivative work that you've authorize, with rights in that derivate work licensed to the narrator and the producer.

[LilyBLily]

But what about copyrighting an AI audiobook?

[Bill Hiatt]

But what about copyrighting an AI audiobook?

The copyright office's position at the moment is that AI work can't be copyrighted. That makes copyrighting depend on how much human intervention is involved. (Of course, you wrote the whole text, but the copyright of the content is a separate issue.)

Leaving that issue aside for a moment, the answer would also depend on the agreement with the company providing the AI services. If the work were copyrightable, it would be copyrightable by the company unless there is the equivalent of a work-for-hire agreement in place. I'm assuming large companies would have such an agreement in place, but it would be best to check the language.

[PJ Post]

All fixed versions of any Creative endeavor need a separate copyright for legal protection (short story, book, serial, movie, cartoon, audio performance, public reading, etc.). With that said, the act of fixing the work grants it (you) an automatic copyright. So it's debatable how important registration really is. However, if your IP blows up into a million dollar revenue stream, registration is a pretty good idea, otherwise...meh. Of course, even for the average IP, it certainly won't hurt, and it's not all the expensive or time consuming to do. Generally speaking though, the main reason for copyrights and trademarks is to protect the Creative from BS claims and litigation being filed against them, more so than to protect the IP itself from theft or piracy. It's a defensive measure.

There's two types of copyrights at work here:

The composition - or the IP. This grants the holder the right to collect revenue from unit sales (publishing rights/mechanical royalties).
And the recording performance itself. This grants the holder the right to collect performance royalties. You'll want to get a Transfer of these Rights if you're not the one doing the recording to simplify your life. I assume this is pretty standard in the industry.

Don't think of AI narration as AI, just think of it as narration. It's no different than if you used MS Word to narrate the work. This is common on YouTube, and the work is still protected-ish. But the important thing to think about here is what this copyright is protecting - (public) Performance Royalties. How often do we hear a recording of a book in the wild? Or samples being used? The most common transgressor here is, again, YouTube (or TikTok or Instagram) - a fan using the recording on their channel, better known as free advertising. So there's no reason to complain about that.

With that said, Bill may be correct, but not because of any AI legal concern. If the book is simply narrated (by computer or app) without any additional work, such as music or sound effects - there's not really anything to copyright per se on the performance side of things, because there are no performing rights to protect. It makes the copyright moot. Copyright litigation requires proof of both standing and harm. MS Word can prove neither.

This is a great article explaining copyrights for music, which is pretty much the same for audio books because they're both sound recordings of a composition.

https://lawyerdrummer.com/2020/10/the-2-copyrights-in-a-song/

And for audio book sound recording:

https://www.sidebarsaturdays.com/2017/07/01/httpwp-mep7vddb-td/

[alhawke]

So once audio is complete, I can submit US copyright? That's my plan. With books, they ask for a download of an efile. I assume they will ask for a download copy of the full audio??

[alhawke]

Voices plus or standard distribution with Findaway?

I thought about having samples available. I think I'm unable to do this by contract if I choose voices plus. But voices plus allows more promotion. Any of you who used Findaway have any thoughts on this? It reminds me a little of KU but there's not many retailers I'm aware of out of their network.

[Bill Hiatt]

So once audio is complete, I can submit US copyright? That's my plan. With books, they ask for a download of an efile. I assume they will ask for a download copy of the full audio??

I see references to sending a copy, which must mean an audio file in this case. I just hope their servers are hefty enough to deal with all that audio pouring in.

[Bill Hiatt]

Voices plus or standard distribution with Findaway?

I thought about having samples available. I think I'm unable to do this by contract if I choose voices plus. But voices plus allows more promotion. Any of you who used Findaway have any thoughts on this? It reminds me a little of KU but there's not many retailers I'm aware of out of their network.

I've gone with Voices Plus in the past. If there were major dealers outside their network, I'd think differently. But unlike Amazon, Findaway seems to aim for the widest distribution possible. Since I started with them, they have added new channels several times.

[alhawke]

I've gone with Voices Plus in the past. If there were major dealers outside their network, I'd think differently. But unlike Amazon, Findaway seems to aim for the widest distribution possible. Since I started with them, they have added new channels several times.

Yes, from researching it, Voices Plus seems best. The only thing I was thinking was samples. I believe it'd restrict me from that?? But sample chapters was just an idea, and Voices Plus gives 100 giveaway codes for promotional use.

[alhawke]

What about back matter? Does anyone include "About the Author" or "Acknowledgements?" Or a word about the importance of reviews? I have a lot of this stuff on my ebooks, but I think the standard is to omit it with audio--because every word costs money, I'm guessing.

[Bill Hiatt]

I'd acknowledge the narrator if not acknowledged anywhere else. But yeah, it makes sense to trim the nonessentials. I'm not an audiobook listener, though, so I don't really know what standard practice is.

[alhawke]

I'd acknowledge the narrator if not acknowledged anywhere else. But yeah, it makes sense to trim the nonessentials. I'm not an audiobook listener, though, so I don't really know what standard practice is.

The narrator is mentioned in opening and closing credits, per Findaway's regular template. The back matter is scant, probably, due to cost. But my research isn't showing a steadfast rule. Some audio's do have samples of other books, for example.

[alhawke]

Should I publish audio on ACX (Amazon)? Thoughts?

Through Findaway I have the option of selling though ACX (Amazon) non-exclusive. Obviously, I can't go direct because I chose an aggregate distributor. (I was surprised of a seven year contract for non-exclusive ACX. I don't understand why?  )

I know many disgruntled authors have spoken out regarding their dissatisfaction with Amazon over their $ returns. But to not publish on Amazon seems like a mistake. I don't think avoiding ACX would bring up sales elsewhere. Am I right? Some writers have opted out of ACX completely.

Either way, getting excited. I've found a narrator and I'm moving towards finalizing. Thanks so much ^^ for your help.

[Bill Hiatt]

Amazon is nobody's favorite distributor, but it's hard to ignore their market share. I wouldn't go exclusive with them in audio, but ignoring them completely seems counterproductive.

[Maggie Ann]

Amazon is nobody's favorite distributor, but it's hard to ignore their market share. I wouldn't go exclusive with them in audio, but ignoring them completely seems counterproductive.

I'm non-exclusive with ACX/Audible and was considering dropping them completely. They've been putting the squeeze on indies for a few years now and I'm lucky if I sell one a month. However, since they have announced their intention to reduce prices, I'll give them another shot.

Definitely, go non-exclusive.

I only have one Duo on Findaway and I thought I hadn't sold anything so I finally went into my dashboard and checked. It seems I have some library loans through Hoopla, so I'm pleased, but they haven't paid me yet.

[alhawke]

However, since they have announced their intention to reduce prices, I'll give them another shot.

Funny, I thought this was another bad thing they were doing. I didn't think it was a benefit.
Pretty sure I'll publish on ACX despite the pros and cons (nonexclusive on Findaway). Thanks!

[Maggie Ann]

However, since they have announced their intention to reduce prices, I'll give them another shot.

Funny, I thought this was another bad thing they were doing. I didn't think it was a benefit.
Pretty sure I'll publish on ACX despite the pros and cons (nonexclusive on Findaway). Thanks!

Of course, royalties on the reduced price will be less, but hopefully there will be more sales. The only time I had decent sales on ACX was when a customer bought an ebook, Audible directed them to the audio at a reduced price. Now, Audible directs them to deals to attract subscribers and my sales have plummeted. So, in my mind, reduced prices might lead to increased sales instead of little or no sales. I can only wait and see. I think that Audible would not have taken this step if their sales hadn't taken a dive with the increased competition from Chirp and Google Play.

Personally, I now only buy audiobooks from Chirp.

[alhawke]

Personally, I now only buy audiobooks from Chirp.

Chirp was one of the perks in going with Findaway. I'd like to try a chance at a BookBub promo one day.

[alhawke]

Audio CDs. Are any Indie writers making them? It is a medium selling on Amazon. Is it, or any other alternative form outside of digital audio, a consideration I should look into?

[The Bass Bagwhan]

For my input on this, it's being over-complicated. For a start, you can't just release an audiobook on its own through Amazon/Audible. It HAS to be of an existing print or ebook version. In other words, the audiobook is simply another version available of an existing title, therefore all the copyright stuff is already covered with that original print/ebook release.
While Findaway distributes wide, with Audible being such a power in the market Findaway's template mimics ACX. Opening credits must acknowledge the author and narrator, and nothing else. The format is very strict. End credits are more flexible, but good luck getting anyone to listen. A sample of the next book is okay, it's simply another chapter/file, but it must be inserted prior to the end credits.
Adding music, etc., has been a hotly debated subject for years. Some listeners flat-out hate anything but simple narration. Others want a "radio play" complete with multiple narrators, music and sound fx. The consensus seems to be that you'll annoy more people than you'll impress. (Personally, I love the idea of added production).
Because audiobooks are ultimately crunched down to low-resolution MP3, the quality of the original recording can be sacrificed somewhat and created in 44.1kHz/16bit which is the standard for CD production. Therefore, if you want to go the CD option, the files already exist anyway ... it's just a post-production diversion to create CDs as well. Basically, any format you decide is worthwhile providing is derived from the original recording sessions/files.
Ensure your narrator is well-versed in what ACX requires. Also, while you can fix/replace any chapter/file during the upload process, once you hit the "publish" button, replacing any errors is far more difficult. It's not a simple process of uploading a corrected file like in KDP. It's a nightmare.

[PJ Post]

Audio CDs. Are any Indie writers making them? It is a medium selling on Amazon. Is it, or any other alternative form outside of digital audio, a consideration I should look into?

We're pretty much into the streaming era now. The CD market is still there, but it's small and shrinking rapidly. Cars don't even have CD players anymore.

[Bill Hiatt]

Agreed. I still see audio CDs offered occasionally for strong-selling trad books, but my guess is that they were created early in the book's run, when such a thing was still popular. I think there's little point in it now.

(It's bad enough to be haunted by the ghost of the audio CD by having to make a square cover for an audiobook (presumably to fit the nonexistent CD case).

[Post-Crisis D]

If you have a loyal audience, CDs might be good premium item to offer for collectors and serious fans, if you can get the CD produced by a quality provider that creates long-lasting CDs and not something done on an inexpensive CD duplicator that produces a CD that will fade and be useless in ten years.

(It's bad enough to be haunted by the ghost of the audio CD by having to make a square cover for an audiobook (presumably to fit the nonexistent CD case).

Reminds me that I own a square CD.  Downside is that the CD case wasn't custom-made to fit the square, so it's a square case with a square CD held in a plastic form designed for a round CD.  But, two out of three matching isn't too bad.  Of course, you need a tray-loading CD player to play it.

[alhawke]

For my input on this, it's being over-complicated. For a start, you can't just release an audiobook on its own through Amazon/Audible. It HAS to be of an existing print or ebook version. In other words, the audiobook is simply another version available of an existing title, therefore all the copyright stuff is already covered with that original print/ebook release.

I understand that. I already have a title I'm using in print. It's all new to me so all the input ^^ (including yours) has been very helpful in setting this up for me.

Adding music, etc., has been a hotly debated subject for years. Some listeners flat-out hate anything but simple narration. Others want a "radio play" complete with multiple narrators, music and sound fx. The consensus seems to be that you'll annoy more people than you'll impress. (Personally, I love the idea of added production).

And what if the music isn't liked? Seems could turn more negative than positive. I probably won't add music.

If you have a loyal audience, CDs might be good premium item to offer for collectors and serious fans, if you can get the CD produced by a quality provider that creates long-lasting CDs and not something done on an inexpensive CD duplicator that produces a CD that will fade and be useless in ten years.

Outside of trad, finding a way to create POD CDs is probably a nightmare? This reminds me of creating an omnibus for boxed sets (which I did. Which sells, like 1-2 per year). Just looking at all options, thanks!

[The Bass Bagwhan]

Outside of trad, finding a way to create POD CDs is probably a nightmare? This reminds me of creating an omnibus for boxed sets (which I did. Which sells, like 1-2 per year). Just looking at all options, thanks!

I've never bothered to look into this, but for decades now CD players and certainly DVD players have been able to play MP3 files. Which means each disc can contain ten times the amount of chapters and even a longish book would only need 2-3 discs. However, these would be data discs, not "CD discs" as such and you'd need to maintain a strict file-naming format to ensure everything played in order ... not difficult.
It's something you can produce at home with reasonable quality for any low demand, if you have the proper printer that prints on printable CDs.
Maybe this already being done? Like I said, I haven't looked at it myself.

[Bill Hiatt]

If you have a loyal audience, CDs might be good premium item to offer for collectors and serious fans, if you can get the CD produced by a quality provider that creates long-lasting CDs and not something done on an inexpensive CD duplicator that produces a CD that will fade and be useless in ten years.

That's an interesting thought if it would be something people actually wanted. The audiobook listeners I know wouldn't take a CD audio book if I gave it away. But there are probably people out there who would think it was a nice collector's item. You just need to find audiobook fans who also have the collector gene.

I've sometimes thought about hardcover editions in the same way, though not quite enough to actually do any. But hardcovers would make nice gift items or prizes. I doubt they'd be much of an income source. But I do know a lot of serious readers who prefer paper over ebooks, and the most rabid do buy hardcovers.

[alhawke]

I sell hardcovers. They are cool to have but don't sell well. Mainly it's higher cost over the paperback, I think.

The trouble with CD audio is POD. I used to record music so I have a machine that can transfer MP3 to CD. I can even create the CD itself. But I'm not planning on printing covers and personally packaging CDs. If another company did it for me then, yes, maybe I'd do CDs too. Maybe some of you musician/writers out there know of POD companies who do this sort of stuff?

I was hoping that someone would chime in and say that they produce audio book CDs and it's as easy as starting an account with Ingram, or something. Since it's a dying medium, I figure the answer's no?

[Bill Hiatt]

When I search for something related to self publishing audio books on cd, I get a whole bunch of irrelevant hits.

The only thing I could find was this: https://support.cdbaby.com/hc/en-us/articles/213495563-Can-I-sell-my-audiobook-through-CD-Baby-

Short and simple version: You can create cd audiobooks through CD Baby, but you end up only being able to distribute through the spoken word sections of music stores, because music stores are what CD Baby partners with. Book Baby creates only digital audio books.

[alhawke]

The only thing I could find was this: https://support.cdbaby.com/hc/en-us/articles/213495563-Can-I-sell-my-audiobook-through-CD-Baby-

Short and simple version: You can create cd audiobooks through CD Baby, but you end up only being able to distribute through the spoken word sections of music stores, because music stores are what CD Baby partners with. Book Baby creates only digital audio books.

I'll take a look at it. Thanks!

[Jeff Tanyard]

Instead of cds, how about flash drives?  Just plug it into the jack in your car or treadmill or something, and off you go.

Any thoughts about the expense/logistics of putting an audiobook on a flash drive versus a cd?  (I don't have the first clue, so it might be a terrible idea.  lol)

[alhawke]

I haven't seen flash drives sold on the market. The technology's there, sure. The idea behind CDs still being available is that it was the main medium for a long time and many people still have CD players in their car--and many listen to audio while driving.

[Post-Crisis D]

The thing with flash drives is that anyone with a computer can transfer files onto one whereas not everyone with a computer has a CD burner.

That said, I did buy an MP3 player once that included on album on the included SD card.  Maybe that's an angle.  Buy an audiobook and it includes an MP3 player.

[Bill Hiatt]

Your typical flash drive is more expensive than a CD, (speaking of blank media, not content, though most flash drives are more expensive than a cheap music CD). Of course, if you only needed a flash drive with a very small capacity, which would be the case if you were using it for only one album, that might be a different story.

Let's see. TOPESEL 20PCS 1GB Bulk USB 2.0 Flash Drive retails for 39.99 (so $2 a piece)
100 Pack Smartbuy Digital Audio CD-R Music 52X 700MB/80Min Branded Logo Blank Recordable Disc retails for 20.69 (so about 21 cents a piece)

Of course, those are retail. Wholesale, the media would be cheaper, but it still looks as if the lowest capacity flash drive I can find is going to run more than a typical blank CD. Regular CDs are probably more durable than commercially available CD-Rs and possibly more the raw material has a higher unit cost, but I'd guess not higher than a flash drive.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

The flash drive idea is sound (excuse the pun), in fact, for a while a lot of musicians tried selling their music on these "credit card" style flash drives that included bespoke artwork, something like these but not so expensive...  https://www.canvaschamp.com.au/custom-pendrives
I'm guessing the manufacturers provide some sort of file protection.

It hasn't really taken off — streaming nipped it in the bud. And it's not really going to satisfy people who want CDs ... if you can figure out the flash drive, you can figure out streaming. But it's an option.

[alhawke]

I see references to sending a copy, which must mean an audio file in this case. I just hope their servers are hefty enough to deal with all that audio pouring in.

Just to update for future writers copyrighting their audio, you can submit all mp3 files for copyright in the US at the end of the application. It's a hefty amount of megabytes. You copyright it as a "sound recording" with you as the author providing "text".

Of course, just like copyrighting our ebooks, the only benefit to doing this whole process is the ability to sue someone copying your work in the United States. All of our works are essentially "copyrighted" upon publication, but to bring someone to court, again in the United States, you have to submit the work to the copyright office for ebooks and separately for audio.

[Bill Hiatt]

The other benefit for registering copyright is the ability to protect yourself more easily if someone else makes a false copyright claim against you.

Any of us could probably prove approximately when our book first became available for sale, since Amazon and other distributors keep records of that. But was what we published originally actually the same as what we are selling under that title now? I can see that and similar questions being raised. Thousands of dollars in legal fees later, you could probably answer those questions satisfactorily. For a copyright registration within (I think) five years of the writing of the book, you have prima facie evidence of your rights. All the other questions dry up and blow away. Even later registration is better than nothing. But prompt copyright registration will get the job done with a much lower legal cost.

Even if you never get sued over a false infringement claim, copyright registration is also the best defense against DMCA takedown notices and other shenanigans.

Such events aren't common, but they do happen. It's better to stop them in their tracks.