Author Topic: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub  (Read 58236 times)

Marti Talbott

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #550 on: March 18, 2022, 11:25:26 AM »
I finally submitted a title again for a featured deal. We'll see what happens!

Good luck! I landed an international BB for $154.00 that ran on Wednesday. So far around 850 downloads of The Viking. Naturally, Zon didn't mark my .CA down, so no go there. This book has been free forever, so I didn't think I needed to check. I should know better. Now I wait to see the buy-throughs.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #551 on: March 20, 2022, 03:48:42 AM »
BookBub just turned down my submission. Why are they working on a Saturday afternoon?

I'll send them something else next week, I guess, but first I should tinker with my blurbs for this series and add some A+ content, and all the rest.
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #552 on: March 20, 2022, 03:57:28 AM »
BookBub just turned down my submission. Why are they working on a Saturday afternoon?

I'll send them something else next week, I guess, but first I should tinker with my blurbs for this series and add some A+ content, and all the rest.

I think that for the Bot to reject a submission on Saturday, there must be something in your submission that doesn't fit their agenda for that genre, something that the bot could spot right away. Maybe changing the blurb is a good idea, concentrating more on keywords for that genre? Just a thought.

If only I was better at taking my own advice. :dog1:
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #553 on: March 20, 2022, 04:12:18 AM »
One thing I noticed with my bookbub (Int'l only) was that I had significant returns on books 2 and 3 with bookbub. Usually I get one or two readers a year returning books 2 and 3 after presumably reading them. I got more returns after that bookbub than all total since I published the trilogy in 2016. It kind of soured me on future bookbubs to be honest.

But best of luck to the rest of you.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #554 on: March 20, 2022, 10:40:32 AM »
You think BookBub uses a bot? I guess that makes sense since they get inundated with submissions, but then again, why wouldn't the bot have rejected my book within mere hours of it being submitted instead of waiting two-and-a-half days? My assumption is they held it until they got a better submission for the category. However, maybe I'm wrong about that. We really don't know how they do their decision making.

How many days' worth of submissions do they compare at one time? My newsletter from BB always contains one time travel romance, for instance. Just one. Do they pool all the time travel romance submissions per week and then pick their favorite seven? Or do they decide daily? They only work 30 days in advance, so at most they'd consider 30 time travel romances at one time, one would think. Do they have an internal deadline for choosing, and they hold some possibles until that deadline, hoping an expensive trad pub ad comes in? That would seem the most likely scenario. It's weird, though, that we actually do not know how they choose. 
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #555 on: March 21, 2022, 04:22:56 AM »
You think BookBub uses a bot? I guess that makes sense since they get inundated with submissions, but then again, why wouldn't the bot have rejected my book within mere hours of it being submitted instead of waiting two-and-a-half days? My assumption is they held it until they got a better submission for the category. However, maybe I'm wrong about that. We really don't know how they do their decision making.

How many days' worth of submissions do they compare at one time? My newsletter from BB always contains one time travel romance, for instance. Just one. Do they pool all the time travel romance submissions per week and then pick their favorite seven? Or do they decide daily? They only work 30 days in advance, so at most they'd consider 30 time travel romances at one time, one would think. Do they have an internal deadline for choosing, and they hold some possibles until that deadline, hoping an expensive trad pub ad comes in? That would seem the most likely scenario. It's weird, though, that we actually do not know how they choose.

Logic would dictate that their decisions are based on reader preferences. If time travel books have lost their reader pull, then maybe it's that and not anything an author can change to make the book more saleable. I'm just guessing, of course. I wonder if we can tell by scrutinizing their price list. I've thought all along that their "predicted" download numbers are inflated because many of those are authors and not necessarily readers.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

idontknowyet

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #556 on: March 21, 2022, 05:04:11 AM »
Not related but Marti i love the new cover!!!!! So pretty!
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #557 on: March 21, 2022, 05:07:28 AM »
Not related but Marti i love the new cover!!!!! So pretty!

Thank you!
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #558 on: March 21, 2022, 10:02:26 AM »
We're nearing the end of the month, so Amazon has let me know that one of my discounted books--the one that had a BookBub on December 31st--has earned me nine cents in India.

I hope they liked the story.  :shrug
 

idontknowyet

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #559 on: March 21, 2022, 11:19:12 AM »
It felt like i had a full read through of my entire series for like a quarter in india. Doesn't seem profitable for amazon.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #560 on: March 21, 2022, 12:15:14 PM »
We're nearing the end of the month, so Amazon has let me know that one of my discounted books--the one that had a BookBub on December 31st--has earned me nine cents in India.
I hope they liked the story.  :shrug
I didn't sell any books in India last year at all--including after BookBub promos. I sold my first book in Japan grint. Nothing in India.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #561 on: August 18, 2022, 12:58:58 PM »
Got another international only BookBub for early September and feel lucky that I didn't get Labor Day.

The interesting thing is BB says it's only going to be for Canada, Australia, and the UK. No India or other random countries. No Europe.

 
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idontknowyet

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #562 on: August 18, 2022, 01:17:01 PM »
Congrats!
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #563 on: August 18, 2022, 08:43:16 PM »
Congratulations Lily and good luck. Is it the first in a series?
I just popped open Bookbub and it looks like they dropped India. Wonder why.
I submitted an audiobook deal, that did well for me once. It was free the one time I got it, now they are charging 10% so no money up front. FYI - you have to distribute through Findaway to do that.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #564 on: August 18, 2022, 11:55:54 PM »
Women's fiction. A stand-alone title that I've now claimed is third in a very loosely connected series. I have never yet started a series intentionally, although possibly I am about to. It's hard for a pantster to plan ahead.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #565 on: August 19, 2022, 12:36:53 AM »
I have never yet started a series intentionally, although possibly I am about to. It's hard for a pantster to plan ahead.
Same with me. Good luck with your BB!  :banana:
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #566 on: August 25, 2022, 09:58:50 AM »
I've set my title that will have an international BookBub to 99 cents on Kobo for a number of days, but I note that if I let Kobo take another 10% off the top, I can perhaps participate in one of its Double Daily Deal promotions. One has to submit to Kobo, but if I say I have a BookBub they'll probably accept my pleading. (Ain't advertising wonderful?)

Question is, is it worth it? Opinions?

(This is women's fiction, basically stand alone, very loosely connected to a few other books. It might sell the others, but it's not Book 1 in a series.)
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #567 on: August 25, 2022, 12:17:34 PM »
I've set my title that will have an international BookBub to 99 cents on Kobo for a number of days, but I note that if I let Kobo take another 10% off the top, I can perhaps participate in one of its Double Daily Deal promotions.
I'd try to add it. I did this in October for a 99c US BB promo. I told them a BB was scheduled and they accepted the Double Daily Deal. My book was a paranormal fantasy Boxed Set. Kobo sales were 110 that week, largely from the Double Daily Deal. But I found ads were most effective. I ran B&N BB ads and had about 350 sales in B&N. B&N gives no extra promo push, so, though I loved Kobo's extra boost, I found my ads packed the greatest punch. In the future, ads are where I plan my focus to lie when bolstering a BB ad.

As far as the 10% drop, most of the money you'll get back with your BookBub promo will be from your Amazon sales. While the extra Kobo sales from the Double Daily might break even the 10% loss in Kobo.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2022, 12:19:42 PM by alhawke »
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #568 on: August 25, 2022, 12:42:36 PM »
Interestingly, Kobo immediately refused my submission, saying it won't allow a planned price drop to overlap with their Double Daily Deal promotion. Since it would be folly to not discount my book on the very day BookBub is advertising it, I can't do Kobo's promo that falls on different days. Oh, well. I guess that means I won't lose an additional nickel per sale after all.   

 :icon_mrgreen:
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #569 on: August 25, 2022, 01:08:10 PM »
Interestingly, Kobo immediately refused my submission, saying it won't allow a planned price drop to overlap with their Double Daily Deal promotion.
I don't see any other way to connect the two promos. The only thing I did differently than you was contact them before I price dropped it. You could email them direct outside of the deal application and explain the situation.

I hope it's not something silly like their AI system didn't accept your book application since you already price dropped it (I fear that could be the problem).
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #570 on: August 25, 2022, 10:21:13 PM »
It will be interesting to see what you get with the bookbub without the daily double. I sold 81 of my psych thriller on Kobo during my international bookbub when it was 99 cents (December 2018).

Good luck.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #571 on: August 28, 2022, 09:24:24 AM »
Kobo suggested I drop the regular price instead of doing a timed price drop. Then I could submit and might qualify for a Double Daily Deal. However, it also takes 48 hours for Kobo to realize I changed the price. So I keep checking to see if it has accepted that so I can try again to submit to the Double Daily Deal.

Or is it the Daily Double Deal? No, that doesn't sound right.  Grin

Anyway, one of the dates for the deal closes tomorrow and I'm not holding my breath that this will clear up by then.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #572 on: August 28, 2022, 11:15:51 AM »
Kobo suggested I drop the regular price instead of doing a timed price drop.
I never run a timed price drop. I can't recall why. I think it's because there's still been delays with resuming regular price, but I... can't recall. I wouldn't use their schedule. I'd just change the regular price for every price drop.

Give it a go, if you still can. The BookBub will push things a little and might get you accepted.

Even if you don't get the Double Deal, you might want to mention that you're running the BB to their main contact staff. There's other deal sections that their editors might be able to fit your book in, aside from their regular listed promos. Good luck!
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #573 on: September 09, 2022, 07:58:35 AM »
The Kobo daily deal rigmarole--backing out of the sale price and then applying for the deal--did not work despite what they told me. The correct price drop did occur and that's that.

So far, results are reasonable, and it's a kick having a book in the top 100 of any store. In a couple of categories, it's even in the top 10.

Interestingly, in the Amazon U.S. store, despite having sold well over 100 copies today, the book ranks only in the 24 thousands. A tribute to just how many books are for sale on Amazon these days. Used to be that one could attain a much better rank with far fewer sales.   

(Edited to correct my error, since the current KDP sales page does not show marketplaces the way the old one does. Checking that, I see the U.S. sales, while still ahead of the worldwide sales, are not so many units more than, say, Australia. Thus the ranking this morning at 35k in the U.S., while still unfortunately proportional to the vast U.S. store, is not for every Amazon sale.)

I remember many years ago working for a company that had a big publicity push planned for a certain day. Then a world leader was assassinated that day. So much for plans. I don't think the dear Queen's death today is likely to affect my international BookBub today, but the title of my book relates to death, so who knows?

Edited to add more details and then again to clarify them.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 11:17:40 PM by LilyBLily »
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #574 on: September 16, 2022, 09:33:31 AM »
Unfortunately, since my international BookBub deal was for the UK and two of the Commonwealth countries and was for the very day Queen Elizabeth died, it is not surprising that the ad did not earn out during this period of public spectacle and emotion. People read my kind of fiction to be emotional, and the royal family provided that for them last week and still is doing so this week.

I bought two U.S.-based modest newsletter ads ($90) and sent out a newsletter ($7). Had I not paid for the ads, the BB deal might have just broken even.

I can't say this is a lesson-learned situation; it's just bad luck to have collided with a world event. 

Maybe I'll get a few new fans from it and some ratings. Most people who bother to read my books like them.

 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #575 on: September 16, 2022, 01:44:21 PM »
I can't say this is a lesson-learned situation; it's just bad luck to have collided with a world event. 
Sounds like it. Sorry to hear it. Hopefully you still make the money back with the tail and get some new fans.
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #576 on: December 04, 2022, 01:29:59 AM »
Having finally been paid for all my September sales, I think I edged into a tiny profit on my otherwise disastrous Sept. 8 international BookBub deal.

Meanwhile, BookBub keeps trawling (or is it trolling?) for more deal submissions.

Eh. Maybe I'll try again with my western box set. January is a good month for binge reading.
 

cecilia_writer

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #577 on: December 04, 2022, 10:50:59 PM »
That was really bad luck but I'm glad you came out a little way ahead.
My Setptember sales were dreadful - I don't think anybody in the UK was reading much until after the funeral as there was such a lot of live drama involved in the ceremonial events, the queues etc.
Cecilia Peartree - Woman of Mystery
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #578 on: December 17, 2022, 03:20:04 AM »
I've submitted another book for a deal. Women's fiction. I don't know the ideal spacing between discounts, but the last one on this title was New Years' Eve. Talk about my crazy luck!

I was going to try with the western box set but BookBub has never given me a deal on any western romance, perhaps rightly realizing that an international only deal for a western would not do well. The era of westerns being super popular the world over has long since waned. This even though they continue to do well with U.S. readers in more than one subgenre--the straight western action story and the western romance. In fact, they do surprisingly well. The urge to visit wide open spaces is still there, apparently.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #579 on: December 17, 2022, 04:01:12 AM »
I've submitted another book for a deal. Women's fiction. I don't know the ideal spacing between discounts, but the last one on this title was New Years' Eve. Talk about my crazy luck!

I was going to try with the western box set but BookBub has never given me a deal on any western romance, perhaps rightly realizing that an international only deal for a western would not do well. The era of westerns being super popular the world over has long since waned. This even though they continue to do well with U.S. readers in more than one subgenre--the straight western action story and the western romance. In fact, they do surprisingly well. The urge to visit wide open spaces is still there, apparently.
Good luck! I submitted under supernatural suspense this week.  :cheers I had a new release for less ran last month, but this is a completely different book and category. And it's been over a month, so...  :shrug I'm trying for a BB free. I've never ran a free promo with BB. They've only accepted 99c promos with my books. But free is cheaper and I was thinking it might help with exposure.?? So I'll be waiting seven days for their "unfortunately Yada yada"...
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #580 on: December 22, 2022, 12:11:03 AM »
Got a nope from BB.  My only regret is that other ads are harder to organize--and now I have no excuse and must do some other ads. 
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #581 on: December 22, 2022, 01:25:55 AM »
Got a nope from BB.  My only regret is that other ads are harder to organize--and now I have no excuse and must do some other ads.
Sorry to hear it. Me too. For me, that makes 7 rejections in 9 months. Last BB promo was in February.
I've worked out that if I pay around the same amount with strong alternate stacked promos as one BookBub, I get about 1/4 as many sales--which is still good. In other words, an average of 250 instead of 1000 for a 99c promo. But it proves how worth it is to keep applying to BB.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #582 on: December 22, 2022, 02:21:56 AM »
I just organized a promo for my western box set. I might submit it to BB even though they have never ever said yes to one of my western romances and I don't see those advertised on BB either. Or maybe it would make more sense to do a CPC ad. I'll think about that. Too many options.
 

Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #583 on: December 04, 2023, 06:04:41 AM »
I submitted Bheki and the Magic Light. It was originally published by Penguin in their Puffin series. I subsequently had the rights returned to me. It is an illustrated chapter book for 7-12 yrs. Presumably Penguin know what they are doing re page length and it is 54 printed pages. BookBub turned it down claiming that middle grade books have to be a minimum of 100 pages  :icon_rolleyes:
How the Grinch Stole Christmas is a similar length at 61 pages. 
This means that none of my children's books will ever be accepted.  :icon_cry:

I'm now contemplating taking out a BookBub ad, but it seems to be very complicated and time-consuming. Has anyone had any luck with an ad for a children's book?

Non-fiction, Fiction, family saga, humour, short stories, teen, children's
Jan Hurst-Nicholson | author website
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #584 on: December 04, 2023, 07:14:54 AM »
I'm now contemplating taking out a BookBub ad, but it seems to be very complicated and time-consuming. Has anyone had any luck with an ad for a children's book?
I sell a lot of books with BookBub ads. However on writing forums, I'm pretty unique with my success. I also have created upwards of 200 creatives for BookBub--I think why trial and error has helped. You need to pair a good creative with a short eye catching tagline.

Unfortunately, my genre is paranormal romance, not children's books, so I can't help you regarding you genre. I would suggest you search through BookBub for similar books and see if you see a trend with other writers, Indie and trad, to see if it seems like they're successful. I'm not even sure how good the market is for your genre with BB ads.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #585 on: December 04, 2023, 08:14:56 AM »
Definitely study the kinds of children's books BookBub promotes. Regardless, the CPC ads you buy can be an end run around their page length rules. If you can manage a wonderful ad, it may catch the eye of a generous grandparent and you'll do fine. (Easier said than done, I know.)

As I recall, alhawke does not discount the books in CPC BB ads. You probably don't need to, either. 
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #586 on: December 04, 2023, 12:16:00 PM »
As I recall, alhawke does not discount the books in CPC BB ads. You probably don't need to, either.
My ads are for full priced books--only I "discount" my initial book 1 at $3.99 USD; subsequent books in the series I sell for $4.99.
 

Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #587 on: December 05, 2023, 03:18:19 AM »
Thanks for all the above advice.  :tup3b

I'm going cross-eyed reading all the BookBub advice and I ended up with about 10 open pages  :icon_rolleyes:.
I was going to add authors but decided that the only two that really matched my Leon Chameleon PI  stories would be Kenneth Grahame (The Wind in the Willows) and Beatrix Potter and I wasn't sure that today's children or parents would be familiar with these classics, or at least they wouldn't be likely to be searching for them. But as grandmothers are a target audience as part of the ad I put "Fans of Beatrix Potter will love Leon Chameleon PI." A reviewer wrote that Leon was "destined to become a classic" so I added that.
I'm going for impressions rather than ROI at the moment so opted to try a free promotion, although I've learned that people will take free items (whatever they are) whether they want them or not,  but as there is a second book in the series I'm hoping for a few sales there. 

Non-fiction, Fiction, family saga, humour, short stories, teen, children's
Jan Hurst-Nicholson | author website
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #588 on: December 05, 2023, 07:10:32 AM »
I'd experiment. Usually the advice is to find authors who have around 50k followers, not too popular authors. I think that was David Gaughran's advice (if you can find his blog about BB ads, I'd check it out). Also just put up a few with $5/day bids and watch and see what's successful.

Finding the right author is huge in getting enough clicks--this probably works similarly with any ads, including AMS.
 

RiverRun

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #589 on: December 05, 2023, 11:10:59 PM »
All I read is the look inside preview on Amazon, and while it looks really cute, it didn't seem much like Wind in the Willows or Beatrix Potter to me. It actually seemed a little more like Rikki Tikki Tavi but that's not exactly modern either!

What about Nate the Great? Not animals, and written for a lower reading level, but its one of the most popular mystery series for young readers.

The tone is different but Hank the Cowdog is an animal that solves mysteries. These are very tongue-in- cheek books so they mat not be quite right either. Just some more ideas.

The Burgess Animal books are quite old but still sell thru Dover Books. Might be worth seeing if they are on bookbub.
 

RiverRun

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #590 on: December 05, 2023, 11:30:23 PM »
Encyclopedia Brown, maybe?

Toaff's Way by Cynthia Voigt?


The book does seem on the short side for middle grade. That's about ages 11 to 14. Wind in the Willows is a long chapter book that is right for that age but Beatrix Potter is considered a children's book, more for ages 5-8 or so.
Is there anything about the book to prevent you from putting it into the children's book category? Many parents still read aloud to kids under 10 or so, so a more challenging reading level might be okay. And I think there's an assumption sometimes that books about animals are for young kids.

I don't necessarily agree with this assumption. (Book of the Dun Cow and Watership Down are two of my favorite books as an adult) Just saying that the assumption is often made.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 11:56:56 PM by RiverRun »
 

RiverRun

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #591 on: December 06, 2023, 12:38:45 AM »
Sorry to keep posting. I re-read what you said above. The Grinch is definitely not a middle grade book. Its firmly in the children's category today. Middle grade is its own animal.  In the US that's grade 6-8, or about ages 12-14. Its a pretty specific designation. The first 3-4 Harry Potter books would be middle grade. I'm not saying a 12 year old wouldn't enjoy your book because he likely would. But for reasons I'm not altogether familiar with, book marketing to kids has become very segmented. I think this benefits publishers but also coincides with an overall cultural shift. Books, games, clubs, clothes, movies are marketed to specific age ranges. Its actually a little weird when you think about it but most of us in the states are used to it. So what parameters your publisher used 10-20 years ago may not reflect how things are sold now. I found this thru Google. Looks about right to me. [https://miriamlaundry.com/childrens-book-age-categories/
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 03:42:37 AM by RiverRun »
 

Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #592 on: December 06, 2023, 06:01:08 AM »
All I read is the look inside preview on Amazon, and while it looks really cute, it didn't seem much like Wind in the Willows or Beatrix Potter to me. It actually seemed a little more like Rikki Tikki Tavi but that's not exactly modern either!

What about Nate the Great? Not animals, and written for a lower reading level, but its one of the most popular mystery series for young readers.

The tone is different but Hank the Cowdog is an animal that solves mysteries. These are very tongue-in- cheek books so they mat not be quite right either. Just some more ideas.

The Burgess Animal books are quite old but still sell thru Dover Books. Might be worth seeing if they are on bookbub.

Thanks.
I was looking for books with animal anthropomorphism. As a child I loved Beatrix Potter and Peter Rabbit etc, but especially Mrs Tiggy Winkle as we had hedgehogs in the garden. I also enjoyed Maya the Bee on TV, but no one would recognise the writer  :icon_rolleyes:
Leon is different in that all the animals have to solve the problems using their actual animal attributes, so the children learn about the small creatures without actually realising the teaching element. I don't know of any other books that do that.

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Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #593 on: December 06, 2023, 06:08:44 AM »
Encyclopedia Brown, maybe?

Toaff's Way by Cynthia Voigt?


The book does seem on the short side for middle grade. That's about ages 11 to 14. Wind in the Willows is a long chapter book that is right for that age but Beatrix Potter is considered a children's book, more for ages 5-8 or so.
Is there anything about the book to prevent you from putting it into the children's book category? Many parents still read aloud to kids under 10 or so, so a more challenging reading level might be okay. And I think there's an assumption sometimes that books about animals are for young kids.

I don't necessarily agree with this assumption. (Book of the Dun Cow and Watership Down are two of my favorite books as an adult) Just saying that the assumption is often made.
Thanks.

The  age group is 7-12 yrs and is intended for children who are transitioning from picture books to chapter books. The page length is the standard for that age group. We don't have 'middle grade' here, and I don't think they have it in the UK.

I did put it in the children's category for the BookBub deal as that is the only one I could find, but BookBub slotted it into middle grade for their review process, so I can't win there.   :icon_rolleyes:

A nine-year old reviewer wrote "and my mother enjoyed reading it to my younger brother as she said she doesn't like reading Noddy to him as it's boring.'  Grin. I do put in the blurb that parents enjoy reading it to younger children.

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #594 on: December 06, 2023, 06:18:13 AM »
Sorry to keep posting. I re-read what you said above. The Grinch is definitely not a middle grade book. Its firmly in the children's category today. Middle grade is its own animal.  In the US that's grade 6-8, or about ages 12-14. Its a pretty specific designation. The first 3-4 Harry Potter books would be middle grade. I'm not saying a 12 year old wouldn't enjoy your book because he likely would. But for reasons I'm not altogether familiar with, book marketing to kids has become very segmented. I think this benefits publishers but also coincides with an overall cultural shift. Books, games, clubs, clothes, movies are marketed to specific age ranges. Its actually a little weird when you think about it but most of us in the states are used to it. So what parameters your publisher used 10-20 years ago may not reflect how things are sold now. I found this thru Google. Looks about right to me. [https://miriamlaundry.com/childrens-book-age-categories/

Thanks.
In SA we have to consider readers who are reading English as a second language so that is why we say 7 -12 yrs as the upper age limit is for second language English readers.
It's very frustrating that my children's books don't fit into the BookBub categories as the books have had good reviews and I would be more willing to risk paying for a featured deal with them than with my novels  :icon_sad:. When my friend asked her grandson what he wanted for Christmas he said, "Another Leon book." I sent him the 3rd in the series that wasn't even illustrated. Still haven't had it illustrated.
I guess I will have to go the BookBub paid ads route and see what happens. .

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RiverRun

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #595 on: December 06, 2023, 10:45:17 PM »
That makes a lot of sense. I was only thinking in terms of the US market. A superficial glance at Bookbub made it look they were using US expectations. I have a wide age range of kids in my house and the older kids routinely read picture books if they are around. Leon is now on my list of books to buy:) But I think if you wanted to target the US market you would need to change the recommended age range. Just because of the way people have been trained to shop for children's books here. Books for middle grade sometimes have content inappropriate for the age 5-9 crowd, so I myself would be reluctant to pick out a book for my 8 yr old if it was listed for 12 year olds. Subjects like death and young love are acceptable in middle grade but only alluded to, and usually avoided in the children's category. So its not just length or reading level.

I also can't think right now of another book about anthropomorphic animals using their traits to solve mysteries. It sounds very clever! But there are mysteries in the children's books section. I would look for those.
 

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #596 on: December 07, 2023, 12:29:42 AM »
Interesting discussion!

Anthropomorphic animals are certainly used a lot in children's books. But it may be there aren't a lot of examples of them as detectives. Original ideas are sometimes hard to fit into categories created by publishers.


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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #597 on: December 07, 2023, 12:34:13 AM »
That makes a lot of sense. I was only thinking in terms of the US market. A superficial glance at Bookbub made it look they were using US expectations. I have a wide age range of kids in my house and the older kids routinely read picture books if they are around. Leon is now on my list of books to buy:) But I think if you wanted to target the US market you would need to change the recommended age range. Just because of the way people have been trained to shop for children's books here. Books for middle grade sometimes have content inappropriate for the age 5-9 crowd, so I myself would be reluctant to pick out a book for my 8 yr old if it was listed for 12 year olds. Subjects like death and young love are acceptable in middle grade but only alluded to, and usually avoided in the children's category. So its not just length or reading level.

I also can't think right now of another book about anthropomorphic animals using their traits to solve mysteries. It sounds very clever! But there are mysteries in the children's books section. I would look for those.

Thanks  :Tup2:
If you are thinking of buying the Leon book it will be free from 7-11th December  :)
BookBub seems to go straight from children's books (picture books) to middle grade. I will ask them what happens to the 6-11 yrs group. They don't seem to cater for that. 

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #598 on: December 07, 2023, 12:48:24 AM »
Interesting discussion!

Anthropomorphic animals are certainly used a lot in children's books. But it may be there aren't a lot of examples of them as detectives. Original ideas are sometimes hard to fit into categories created by publishers.

Thanks.
By making the story educational I was hoping the book would become a school class reader. It was published by a trad publisher (their first children's book) and one school did buy copies to use as a class reader, but unfortunately the educational dept. did not take it on nationwide.
Amen to original ideas being hard to fit into categories  :icon_rolleyes:

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #599 on: December 07, 2023, 01:26:17 AM »
I have submitted the below to BookBub in the hope that they will include chapter books in their ads. They are losing out on a whole category of children's books by omitting this age group  :icon_sad:

Chapter Books (6-10 Years Old)
Chapter books are for children who have learned how to read on their own and are looking for a more challenging read but are not quite ready to dive into a full novel. These books feature short chapters, a simple plot, and are typically between 8.5-12 thousand words
.

From the link kindly provided by RiverRun [https://miriamlaundry.com/childrens-book-age-categories/

I will have to find more chapter book writers to join my campaign  :)



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