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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Post-Doctorate D on Today at 09:23:44 AM »
If we are going by body counts . . .  In one of my books, the entire population of Earth was wiped out by a space otter.  Clint Eastwood is a rank amateur by comparison.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Lorri Moulton on Today at 09:18:34 AM »
The first few seasons were more fun.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on Today at 08:59:35 AM »
I believe Sons of Anarchy was based on Hamlet.  Again, a lot of bodies.


It definitely started out that way.  I was excited about the show partly for that reason.  At some point, it seemed to lose focus and just meander, and I eventually bailed out on it.  The nonstop bleakness and nihilism soured me on it, too.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Lorri Moulton on Today at 03:22:18 AM »
I believe Sons of Anarchy was based on Hamlet.  Again, a lot of bodies.

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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by LilyBLily on Today at 12:41:49 AM »
Not all. Clint Eastwood all the way. I remember counting the dead bodies.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by TimothyEllis on February 11, 2026, 10:44:06 PM »
Will they be read Shakespeare's 400yrs from now?  Or, bc we're doing such a good digital job preserving even our slop, will they be swamped and sink below the supposed cream?

My theory is, the top 500k will continue, with the best never really dropping out of it.

All the literature greats are in that 500k now. In a hundred years, I expect most of them to still be there.

The 'slop' just sinks, so even if in a hundred years Amazon or what it evolves into has 500 million books in it, that 500k will still be there, and probably the next 500k being it's expansion.

There's no swamp.

Just an island surrounded by an abyss which drops into a bottomless pit.

The good stuff will remain on the island for as long as people keep reading.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Hopscotch on February 11, 2026, 09:25:31 PM »
People are always telling stories, and many of those tellings are good quality. But only a few outlast their era. In our own era, we have access to it all, the stories that will last and the ones that won't. And we do not know which those will be.

The great literature we have from the past may be the barest skimmings off the top of the risen cream.  Or there may have been a better Shakespeare than Bill but his/her stuff was lost to our skimming.  Same for a better Virgil or Homer or the guy who wrote "The Ruin" in Anglo-Saxon.  There are only two great American novels - Huckleberry Finn and Moby Dick, one popular since first pub and the other forgotten until rediscovered early last century.  Will they be read Shakespeare's 400yrs from now?  Or, bc we're doing such a good digital job preserving even our slop, will they be swamped and sink below the supposed cream?
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on February 11, 2026, 04:30:29 PM »
One of my favorite college courses was Renaissance Drama. It was in that class that I learned Hamlet was a classic revenge play--and so was Dirty Harry. (Or was it Magnum Force? It has been a few years.)


You're probably thinking of the Death Wish franchise.  Those were more straight-up vigilante revenge stories than the Dirty Harry movies.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by LilyBLily on February 11, 2026, 02:33:32 PM »
One of my favorite college courses was Renaissance Drama. It was in that class that I learned Hamlet was a classic revenge play--and so was Dirty Harry. (Or was it Magnum Force? It has been a few years.) The body count is quite literally the same in The Revenger's Tragedy, Hamlet, and Dirty Harry. Hamlet is a genre play that rises above the others.

No, I haven't read anything by Aphra Behn, and yet didn't she write a ton of things that were popular in her day? And so on, in every era. One has read The Three Musketeers, but what about the dozens of other books by pere and fils? And so on. We only hear about the bestsellers that rise above short-term popularity and persist over many generations. I remember some important critic claiming that The Woman in White was the best novel of the nineteenth century, but who ever reads more than The Moonstone? (I did, but I remember nothing about either book.)

It's not that 90% of everything is crap--although it probably is. It's that as Bill says, we tend only to know about the items that reached the top of the hill and for whatever reasons of literary merit stayed there over centuries and through dumb luck were not incinerated by wars. People are always telling stories, and many of those tellings are good quality. But only a few outlast their era. In our own era, we have access to it all, the stories that will last and the ones that won't. And we do not know which those will be.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: The future of writing?
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on February 11, 2026, 12:02:30 PM »
Since the canonization process involved is Catholic, it would be the Catholic definition:


True.

Personally, it doesn't really matter to me that much.  I'm not Catholic, and what they do in Rome is their business, not mine.   :shrug  Canonization of Tolkien would please me, but only because any form of praise for Tolkien pleases me.  I like it when people like the things I like.


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So my original point--that we use only a very small selection of modern works to draw these conclusions, and that we have only a very small number of works, probably in many cases the best of the era, to compare them to--does seem supported by the evidence.


Sure.  This really just boils down to the "90% of everything is crap" rule, and I believe that rule to be a pretty accurate truism.  Generally speaking, the stuff that survives is the stuff that was popular in its own time, not the stuff that never caught on, because popularity results in many more copies being made, and more copies is the best insurance for long-term survival in the face of wars and natural disasters and whatnot.  I just don't like lumping the apples in with the oranges under the all-encompassing "literature" term.  Shakespeare's works, though technically literature, are more akin, in my opinion, to modern-day professional wrestling than to anything written down.  It's performative entertainment, and it makes more sense to me to compare it to other forms of performative entertainment.


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I'll also add that every generation laments its own decadence and looks back to a supposed golden age in the past.


That doesn't mean they're wrong.  Empires decline and fall.  Civilizations collapse.  Nations are conquered.  Entire ethnic groups disappear from history forever.  Decadence often precedes these things.  Earth is a brutally Darwinian place, not a safe space, and societies that treat their own existence like a party instead of a contest will eventually be replaced by more serious peoples.  Some people understand this and want to prevent or at least delay the collapse, hence their complaints about decadence.

If it makes you feel better, doom prophets are rarely heeded.  For example, Ron Paul was warning about the specter of a housing bubble as early as 2001, believe it or not, but it didn't make a lick of difference in the end.  Bubble is inflated, bubble collapses, capital goes to another sector--or another country--and starts a new bubble.  Rinse and repeat until the end of time.  As it is with markets, so it is with nations, peoples, and civilizations.
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