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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Really?
« Last post by PJ Post on July 08, 2024, 10:05:16 PM »
I remember plenty of things that were going to be The Future™...

This is a stale argument.

They said the same things about the camera and the handheld calculator. Was there ever a time when people thought Oil was going to be a passing fad, or cars, or plastics? Was Algebra considered silly? I mean, what's a 'zero', amirite? The Earth, around the Sun? Crazy talk! Organ transplants?!?!

Technology always evolves and always remains, even if it doesn't have an immediate place in the market, until a new generations finds a use for it.

___

A few things to point out though:

1. I have never recommended that we use AI to write our books. It rather defeats the whole point for me. I have no interest in the commodity bin. I advocate exploring AI for all of the productivity aspects and work flow. And I think I've been pretty clear on the subject.

2. Again, it's not about how we feel about AI one way or the other. It's here to stay. As I said from the git-go, there's just too much money in it, both as investment and cost savings. And to whatever level AI evolves to or is allowed to evolve to, the humans that use it will out-compete the ones who don't. It's as simple as that.

3. The copyright tax thing was a different perspective. Our current Copyright system is woefully inadequate and structured to protect corporations, not Creatives. It's broken. And I believe resolution comes through discussion and analysis, which means entertaining new ideas, even if they sound bat-sh*t crazy.
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Did you have the text on justified when you did the bulleted list? That is what is causing the problem.

No, but I just did another test and justification makes no difference.  That's because spaces aren't being used to align anything.  Using spaces to try to position things is what causes problems.

Ok. Thanks. Will have to get someone to sit beside me an explain it in plain vanilla steps  :icon_rolleyes:
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Really?
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on July 08, 2024, 12:57:58 PM »
I remember plenty of things that were going to be The Future™ that still haven't happened after 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc. years.  And some look more likely than not to never materialize.


Remember the Segway?  When it first came out, the buzz around it was that it would revolutionize the way we all got around.  City planners would redesign urban areas around the Segway, etc.  It was going to be the biggest new invention of our lives.

That didn't happen.  It turned out the Segway was just a nifty toy for well-to-do people, a sort of "solution in search of a problem" rather than a complete game-changer for the whole society. 

I think there's a fair chance--maybe not a likelihood, but at least a non-trivial chance--of A.I. turning out the same way.


Quote
Consider writing exercises in school where you had to write an essay on a topic or book report or whatever.  How many students will now use AI to do that, as students in the past may have used money or physical intimidation to write their stuff for them.  One might argue these students are clever for using tools to finish their assignments more efficiently.  But, the point is that the student learns by reading and writing, not that they learn methods to cheat.

The AI-is-a-tool argument is akin to saying it's okay to cheat.  We're not talking about using a tool to find errors or suggest corrections for unclear sentences and so on.  We're talking about a "tool" that can write (or eventually write) your entire novel for you.


Humans tend to follow the path of least resistance.  The more stuff A.I.--or any type of machine, frankly--does for us, the less we will do for ourselves.  In time, our ability to do things will atrophy and shrink.  We will eventually reach a point where we no longer know how to do anything, including maintenance on the machines, and that's when everything breaks.

E.M. Forster wrote a short story about this back in 1909.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops

If anyone hasn't read it yet, you can read the whole short story here:

https://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~koehl/Teaching/ECS188/PDF_files/Machine_stops.pdf
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Really?
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on July 08, 2024, 07:54:45 AM »
I remember plenty of things that were going to be The Future™ that still haven't happened after 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc. years.  And some look more likely than not to never materialize.

Still uncertain is how courts may rule.  Also, however courts rule, legislation may come out that changes things as well.  It is far from a given that AI, at least in regards to faux-creating stuff, will be the future of "creativity."  Plus, as Bill Hiatt pointed out, if AI ends up feeding into itself, quality is going to degrade.  That means AI will require human creativity but if AI effectively kills human creativity, that can be self-defeating.

Consider writing exercises in school where you had to write an essay on a topic or book report or whatever.  How many students will now use AI to do that, as students in the past may have used money or physical intimidation to write their stuff for them.  One might argue these students are clever for using tools to finish their assignments more efficiently.  But, the point is that the student learns by reading and writing, not that they learn methods to cheat.

The AI-is-a-tool argument is akin to saying it's okay to cheat.  We're not talking about using a tool to find errors or suggest corrections for unclear sentences and so on.  We're talking about a "tool" that can write (or eventually write) your entire novel for you.

Of course, if your only interest is churning out books to sell, that may be fine for you.  But, if you're a real writer that has stories to tell, that's not to your benefit.  That's not to your readers' benefit.  A novel is an expression of someone's creative ideas.  There is a creative spirit there that is absent in something spit out by a machine.

And you can come up with ridiculous ideas like doing away with copyright and charging a media consumption tax or whatever and pretending creative people are somehow going to benefit from that, but you could also sit back and realize that while humanity will benefit if AI finds cures for cancer and solutions to perplexing problems, it does not benefit humanity to outsource human expression and creativity to a machine.

And, if people figure that out, there is always the possibility that legislation will come about that will either put a stop to it or put restrictions on it that keep human creatives on top.
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I did cream for one book and didn't like it, so now only use white. Just got a quote from my local printer (Amazon no long ships to SA) to print some books POD and the white was a bit more expensive than the cream, but I'm sticking with white.
I also tried one book with a matte cover and didn't like it, so I only use glossy now.
I just left my books 5,6 in white. I get the some people don't like the glare. I think that's the only negative to white. I honestly don't care either way, so for the last book I figured I'd carry on as if the newer books were "planned" as white. Not sure readers care either but we'll see.
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Formatter's Forge [Public] / Re: Bullet list justified text looking odd
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on July 08, 2024, 07:26:55 AM »
Did you have the text on justified when you did the bulleted list? That is what is causing the problem.

No, but I just did another test and justification makes no difference.  That's because spaces aren't being used to align anything.  Using spaces to try to position things is what causes problems.
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Okay, here's Amazon's white color vs cream for hardcovers. What do you think? (I almost like white better  :shrug). Would it matter to you as a reader if color paper doesn't match in series? And which color type do you prefer?


I did cream for one book and didn't like it, so now only use white. Just got a quote from my local printer (Amazon no long ships to SA) to print some books POD and the white was a bit more expensive than the cream, but I'm sticking with white.
I also tried one book with a matte cover and didn't like it, so I only use glossy now.

As a BTW we get our ISBN numbers free in SA. I just filled-in a form and sent it off and had the new ISBN the following day.  :)
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Out of curiosity, I had to see how Pages handled it.  This is formatted without styles and just using the bulleted list format:


I imagine Word must have something similar.

Thanks.
Did you have the text on justified when you did the bulleted list? That is what is causing the problem. A lot of the book is in bullet points so I would have to do all those in left align. If I had untold wealth I would hand it over to a layout artist.  :icon_rolleyes: I'm seeing the printer this week to discuss the printing locally. I will ask for their advice, but might just leave it as it is in case I mess up the whole book as it mostly looks ok.
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Really?
« Last post by TimothyEllis on July 08, 2024, 03:07:01 AM »
Also, since AI is an incredibly powerful productivity tool for Creatives and Content creators

Content creators, yes.

Creatives, no.

And no, I don't consider content creators to be creatives in this context. And I do consider Bot content to be the lowest form of content. Nothing at all for people be proud of doing.

You're also flogging a dead horse on this.
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Really?
« Last post by PJ Post on July 08, 2024, 02:32:12 AM »
Does every thread eventually turn into a discussion about the relative merits of AI?  Just asking...

AI is the current shiny thing - like MS Word used to be, or Canva or Photoshop or Dragon Speaking. I'm sure the button was all the rage once-upon-a.

They're just tools.

Also, since AI is an incredibly powerful productivity tool for Creatives and Content creators - and it only keeps getting better - it's going to keep coming up.

___

The AI debate reminds me of the vinyl records vs digital music argument. Sure, vinyl may sound better to some people's ear, but the world of commerce embraced digital - so here we are.
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