Author Topic: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub  (Read 6784 times)

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #200 on: May 01, 2021, 12:09:08 AM »
You guys have inspired me to apply again with the book they accepted for Int'l before. I've sold 8 copies of it YTD. I've got nothing to lose. It has nice reviews from UK readers, it really seemed to resonate with people there.

Good idea. I had to put submitting on my to-do list and force myself to keep trying. By becoming indies we avoid direct rejections from agents and editors, but we still are rejection avoidant.   
 

RPatton

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #201 on: May 01, 2021, 04:24:23 AM »
To add, Book Doggy is only $18 and I saw really nice results with it, which could give you a nice bump pre-Bookbub.
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #202 on: May 02, 2021, 06:52:21 AM »
Rejected. 48 hour turn around.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #203 on: May 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM »
Rejected. 48 hour turn around.

Darn. Maybe next time.  :smilie_zauber:
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #204 on: May 03, 2021, 08:13:57 PM »
 
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alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #205 on: May 04, 2021, 05:47:53 AM »
Rejected. 48 hour turn around.
Me too. I think I've had two rejections since the thread started.  :tap
 :cheers Never surrender, Amanda.


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 
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Eric Thomson

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #206 on: May 04, 2021, 05:57:45 AM »
Rejected. 48 hour turn around.
Me too. I think I've had two rejections since the thread started.  :tap
 :cheers Never surrender, Amanda.

Two? Piker  :icon_cool:
I'm waiting for rejection number twelve since this thread started. Had a few heart palpitations last week when it took them five days to reject.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #207 on: May 04, 2021, 10:11:47 AM »
Ha, ha! Maybe I need to up the ante. I'll keep applying  :tap


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 

R. C.

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #208 on: May 06, 2021, 11:29:25 PM »
Received my second BB rejection today. Does that mean I can apply to join the club? Is there a minimum number of rejections to apply for club membership?

 :doh:

Cheers,
R.C.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #209 on: May 06, 2021, 11:52:39 PM »
I think I've got over a hundred. You may join but you are still a prawn, no offense. We all have to start somewhere.
 

PaulineMRoss

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #210 on: May 07, 2021, 01:47:59 AM »
I racked up 60 rejections before I got an acceptance, so keep applying, folks!

Writing epic fantasy as Pauline M Ross; writing Regency romance as Mary Kingswood
Bookbub score: 10 for 86
 

JackT

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #211 on: May 07, 2021, 01:59:53 AM »
I've lost count. It must be 30 or 40 at least.
 

Eric Thomson

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #212 on: May 07, 2021, 02:12:51 AM »
My last acceptance was in February 2020. Since then, I've racked up 70 rejections.
 

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Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #213 on: May 07, 2021, 02:16:33 AM »
I racked up 60 rejections before I got an acceptance, so keep applying, folks!
I've lost count. It must be 30 or 40 at least.
My last acceptance was in February 2020. Since then, I've racked up 70 rejections.

 :HB  :dizzy  :shrug

I just don't have that kind of devotion to getting one.

I completely gave up after about a dozen.

With all the talk of Indies only getting Intl ones, I don't see the point of even bothering.

But good luck to those of you who never give up.  :tap
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.

   

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Eric Thomson

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #214 on: May 07, 2021, 02:43:30 AM »
:HB  :dizzy  :shrug

I just don't have that kind of devotion to getting one.

I completely gave up after about a dozen.

With all the talk of Indies only getting Intl ones, I don't see the point of even bothering.

But good luck to those of you who never give up.  :tap

It literally takes me five minutes per month. I have five series and submit the first in each every four weeks, like clockwork. I'm hoping they'll give me a featured deal eventually if only so I'll stop submitting  grint
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #215 on: May 07, 2021, 03:33:08 AM »
I used to be a little bit more regular about it. Now it's just when people are talking about it a lot here and I can pretend I'm doing work.
 

Tweek

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #216 on: May 07, 2021, 03:33:58 AM »
I racked up 60 rejections before I got an acceptance, so keep applying, folks!
I've lost count. It must be 30 or 40 at least.
My last acceptance was in February 2020. Since then, I've racked up 70 rejections.

 :HB  :dizzy  :shrug

I just don't have that kind of devotion to getting one.

I completely gave up after about a dozen.

With all the talk of Indies only getting Intl ones, I don't see the point of even bothering.

But good luck to those of you who never give up.  :tap

I haven't had many rejections, maybe 4 or 5, because I don't submit often. But all I've gotten this year is international deals and they're not worth much. I'm putting more money into GoogleAds. I did try some FB ads, but the people left on there are crazy political. They somehow managed to put a political spin on a sci fi book (it's not even a controversial subject). I stopped the ads. Too many idiots were posting messages.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #217 on: May 07, 2021, 03:35:49 AM »
Over the past few months I've had four rejections in a row, four acceptances in a row.

It's not so much about your book, rather it's related to what they've already lined up.  If they have a load of epic fantasy books and someone offers something a little different it has a much higher chance.

My acceptances were scifi comedy, light scifi adventure, gaslamp fantasy and mil scifi (only one of them in KU)
 

Tweek

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #218 on: May 07, 2021, 03:55:51 AM »
My 2 rejections this year were for US-only submissions. My other 2 rejections were from years ago and for the same book, which I stubbornly submitted twice (I don't blame them for rejecting it. I'm currently editing it for the millionth time. It's one of those series that still sells despite being badly written and riddled with edit errors that I've been trying to fix for 7 years).

This year BookBub seem determined from only give me int-only, but they are not worth much to me.

On the upside, freeing myself from the BookBub game means I can play some new games with my bundling and pricing. I don't have to hold books at full price for a period before submitting them to BookBub only to get an int-only.

Amazon's 35% game gets on my nerves, so I'm thinking of taking down all my singles on Amazon and only having boxsets on there. I can put singles in series on the other platforms and play with the pricing because they don't have Amazon's <2.99 threshold drop in royalty to 35%. That's always been an annoying lock. But if I change the bundling so that Amazon only have boxsets, then I can price the singles however I want on the other platforms and still get full royalty.

So, there are upside and downsides to ditching BookBub.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #219 on: May 07, 2021, 04:59:54 AM »
Eh, no worries. Am I ever going to get a romance bookbub? Probably not. If they accept me I'll probably take it as a sign that Bookbub is in its last days. My romance is competing against books with 100s of reviews with a 4.9+* average. I'm low 4s with 70 or so reviews. It will never happen.
 

Tweek

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #220 on: May 07, 2021, 05:12:28 AM »
Eh, no worries. Am I ever going to get a romance bookbub? Probably not. If they accept me I'll probably take it as a sign that Bookbub is in its last days. My romance is competing against books with 100s of reviews with a 4.9+* average. I'm low 4s with 70 or so reviews. It will never happen.

I think the problem with the romance category is the sheer competition. Romance, in all its flavors, might have the largest reader base, but it also has the most authors, books, and content mills. It's a tough pool to play in.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #221 on: May 07, 2021, 05:58:05 AM »
Yeah, I was contemplating rebranding them as women's fiction. Can't justify the cost of the new covers though.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #222 on: May 07, 2021, 09:47:53 AM »
I haven't submitted often--and BookBub helpfully keeps a list of my submissions, so now I know it was a total of eleven--and they've passed on this next book twice before. I think Simon has the right of it and their people pick and choose based on what other books they're got lined up.

My assumption is that the trad pub women's fiction, with its typical $1.99 or $2.99 as the discount price, is the preferred deal for BookBub. Since there is plenty of trad pub backlist to pump through the system, I doubt I could ever get a U.S. deal. I'd do a 99-cent deal and accepting my book in place of a trad pub book means $751 or $1522 in lost revenue for BB. I can't see why BB would go for that.

On the other hand, if BB wants to keep giving me international deals, and the ads each make a small profit, then I can use that profit to fund other ads that might be even more profitable. At the moment I'm soured on Amazon ads and not ready to try yet again with Facebook.

 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #223 on: May 16, 2021, 09:02:53 AM »
The run-up to my international BookBub on Monday has begun. I'll spare you the details this time around. So far, the first paid newsletter ad (non-international, AFAIK) has produced enough sales to amortize the cost of the ad and make a tiny profit. Score!
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #224 on: May 16, 2021, 11:43:51 AM »
Nice! Congratulations.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #225 on: May 16, 2021, 12:38:03 PM »
Congrats, Lily! :dance:


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #226 on: May 17, 2021, 05:28:12 AM »
Here's a question for those of you with experience. Does the very first newsletter ad in a stacked sequence produce the most sales? This time around I've carefully separated out the newsletter ads to one per day and no social media alerts, the purpose being to see exactly which ones produced sales. But the truth is that without a tracking pixel I have no way of knowing if a sale today is from the newsletter that hit yesterday or from today's ad. Similarly, after the BookBub tomorrow, there will be people who only look at the email on Tuesday or Wednesday, and I have other ads scheduled for those two days. So I won't really know exactly how many sales can be attributed to the BookBub newsletter alone.

This time around I've remembered to checking my book's rankings, which is entertainment. grint Haven't seen those numbers in a while.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2021, 05:47:09 AM »
Does the very first newsletter ad in a stacked sequence produce the most sales?
.
No. Sometimes I prime a big sale and can see the start of sales, but, in my opinion, the sales depend on the popularity of the newsletter, not the order in which it is released by day or time.

There's not much of a way to track it, but there's much less sales on a tail the following day (except from Bookbub). Usually I find the newsletter of the day is leading to the vast majority of your daily sales.

Only a few promotion companies fair better after the first day with a tail. Books Butterfly & The Portalist, for example, do well, if not better, on the second day--I think because they rely on multiple mailouts rather than one single email.


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #228 on: May 17, 2021, 12:02:44 PM »
On the ever helpful partners blog, BookBub gives nine reasons a book was rejected:

https://insights.bookbub.com/reasons-book-rejected-bookbub-featured-deal

My problem is #7--not enough platform, specifically reviews. So we have that famous chicken-egg conundrum: Not enough sales to interest BookBub in increasing my books' sales, not enough reviews to interest BookBub in increasing my books' review count.

I guess I can use that thousand dollars I won't be spending on a BookBub ad for a lot of Facebook ads or something. Or maybe I'm supposed to hunt up and pay for a couple hundred reviews. That's a great use of ad money, just give the book away to a thousand people and hope I get a hundred new reviews. Or two hundred. Actually, it's hard to find a service that can give away that many books on the direct hope/assumption the recipient will review it. Straight book giveaways have not worked for me at all; I can give away a couple thousand books and get zero reviews.

Last week I had 23 requests for a free copy of one of my titles through a company that says it has a 75% review rate. So far, no new reviews. In my personal experience, if I don't read a book as soon as I download it, I probably won't read it ever, so I am not hopeful that 75% will apply to my book.

I'm committed to asking BookBub once a month every month this year, anyway. They might have an off moment and want my thousand dollars after all.
If it is any comfort, reviews don't always help. They just turned down one of my novels that has more than a thousand reviews. 🤷‍♀️

I would totally skip Bookbub if I could find a platform that gave even close to the same results. AMS definitely doesn't for me. I have been stacking smaller advertisers with some results, but nothing exactly spectacular. It can be frustrating.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #229 on: May 17, 2021, 02:56:36 PM »
That is so frustrating. You have plenty of proof that your book is pleasing to many readers.

I think Simon is right that BB is simply matching its category needs with its remaining openings after taking the bigger money offered by trad pubs to run ads for their backlist titles.

I was wrong about number of reviews being meaningful to BookBub. BB offered me the first international ad on a title that had a mere nine reviews. The international ad and all my supporting U.S. newsletter ads garnered the book fourteen additional ratings. At this point I think if the ratings increase, having more reviews will not matter. Potential readers will see the total number, maybe read a few of the reviews, and make up their minds.

It's tough to know we must advertise and yet have so few ways to do it effectively. This second international BB I've got running May 17 will likely earn me a net of a couple hundred dollars--and that is nothing compared to the thousands that my old Amazon ads used to earn on one title alone. 

« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 10:46:21 PM by LilyBLily »
 

PaulineMRoss

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #230 on: May 17, 2021, 04:32:42 PM »
Here's a question for those of you with experience. Does the very first newsletter ad in a stacked sequence produce the most sales? This time around I've carefully separated out the newsletter ads to one per day and no social media alerts, the purpose being to see exactly which ones produced sales. But the truth is that without a tracking pixel I have no way of knowing if a sale today is from the newsletter that hit yesterday or from today's ad. Similarly, after the BookBub tomorrow, there will be people who only look at the email on Tuesday or Wednesday, and I have other ads scheduled for those two days. So I won't really know exactly how many sales can be attributed to the BookBub newsletter alone.

This time around I've remembered to checking my book's rankings, which is entertainment. grint Haven't seen those numbers in a while.

I've found in the past when I've had a Bookbub without any other promo that the first day is the big hit, the second day produces about a quarter of that, the third day a quarter of day 2 and so on. Other promo sites seem to be similar. So you could use that as a very rough rule of thumb. But Bookbub dwarfs anything else.

Writing epic fantasy as Pauline M Ross; writing Regency romance as Mary Kingswood
Bookbub score: 10 for 86
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #231 on: May 17, 2021, 08:47:13 PM »
That is so frustrating. You have plenty of proof that your book is pleasing to many readers.

I think Simon is right that BB is simply matching its category needs with its remaining openings after taking the bigger money offered by trad pubs to run ads for their backlist titles.

I was wrong about number of reviews being meaningful to BookBub. BB offered me the first international ad on a title that had a mere nine reviews. The international ad and all my supporting U.S. newsletter ads garnered the book fourteen additional ratings. At this point I think if the ratings increase, having more reviews will not matter. Potential readers will see the total number, maybe read a few of the reviews, and make up their minds.

It's tough to know we must advertise and yet have so few ways to do it effectively. This second international BB I've got running May 17 will likely earn me a net of a couple hundreds dollars--and that is nothing compared to the thousands that my old Amazon ads used to earn on one title alone.
It's like pushing a boulder up a hill, except the boulder keeps getting bigger and the hill keeps getting steeper.
 

Crystal

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #232 on: May 18, 2021, 08:15:23 AM »
There are good AMS kws still but it's specific to the book. If you can really target similar covers or themes, specific themes not broad ones like bad boys or billionaires, you can get a decent ACoS. I wouldn't expect to make a profit on a standalone. But on a series of 2-3+ it's doable.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #233 on: May 18, 2021, 09:24:37 AM »
Here's a question for those of you with experience. Does the very first newsletter ad in a stacked sequence produce the most sales? This time around I've carefully separated out the newsletter ads to one per day and no social media alerts, the purpose being to see exactly which ones produced sales. But the truth is that without a tracking pixel I have no way of knowing if a sale today is from the newsletter that hit yesterday or from today's ad. Similarly, after the BookBub tomorrow, there will be people who only look at the email on Tuesday or Wednesday, and I have other ads scheduled for those two days. So I won't really know exactly how many sales can be attributed to the BookBub newsletter alone.

This time around I've remembered to checking my book's rankings, which is entertainment. grint Haven't seen those numbers in a while.

I've found in the past when I've had a Bookbub without any other promo that the first day is the big hit, the second day produces about a quarter of that, the third day a quarter of day 2 and so on. Other promo sites seem to be similar. So you could use that as a very rough rule of thumb. But Bookbub dwarfs anything else.
It is definitely more effective to stack it with a few smaller advertisers. The first trick, of course, is getting the BB. I have lost track of how many I have had over the years, certainly more than a dozen. Twenty, maybe? But I still can't count on them and not being able to PLAN your advertising campaigns puts us at a huge disadvantage.

AMS as far as I am concerned can never be more than a drip campaign. I see no way to really build a platform using it.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #234 on: May 22, 2021, 10:45:12 AM »
Here are the raw results of my international BookBub earlier this week: about 200 more sales than last month's, and so far a handful of full price sales of other titles. Just a sprinkling, not an avalanche.

As far as I can tell, the true international sales were 100 over BookBub's average. I am not well versed on the exact dollar figures involved at all the various stores, so I'm merely guessing that this ad will earn a profit of maybe $70-$100 more than the first one did. Canadian readers were getting a super deal and bought heavily. 

The ad stack winner was eReader IQ, which brought in 64 sales before the BookBub ad and only cost $10. BookDoggy ($20), FKBT ($30), and my newsletter ($7 per month, paid annually) each accounted for far fewer sales.

I expect to get a letter from Bookbub next week urging me to submit another title, and I will. I have one more women's fiction title that should work for the same audience.

Paying close attention to this was a good distraction during my last bit of self-imposed quarantine. 
 
 
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Pemry Janes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #235 on: May 23, 2021, 04:32:28 PM »
Hadn't tried much of any marketing so far, but given that my third book in the series is coming out in a couple of months I thought this was a good time to step up my game there. Reading this topic helped and doing some more research I've applied for Book Barbarian. I also got accepted.

Here's hoping for some success.
Genre: Fantasy
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #236 on: May 23, 2021, 10:25:24 PM »
Hadn't tried much of any marketing so far, but given that my third book in the series is coming out in a couple of months I thought this was a good time to step up my game there. Reading this topic helped and doing some more research I've applied for Book Barbarian. I also got accepted.

Here's hoping for some success.

Good luck! If you haven't done so already, check out Nick Erik's roundup of promo sites: https://nicholaserik.com/promo-sites/
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #237 on: May 23, 2021, 10:30:09 PM »
Hadn't tried much of any marketing so far, but given that my third book in the series is coming out in a couple of months I thought this was a good time to step up my game there. Reading this topic helped and doing some more research I've applied for Book Barbarian. I also got accepted.

Here's hoping for some success.
Good luck.
 
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alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #238 on: May 24, 2021, 12:09:03 AM »
Reading this topic helped and doing some more research I've applied for Book Barbarian.
Good luck!
For genre specific, you might also want to have a look at Fantasy Book Deals. I had a $.99 fantasy promo with them last week that cost $15. Iit's well worth checking out for the cost of the promo. {edit: had 6 sales with their promo
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 12:13:15 AM by alhawke »


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #239 on: May 25, 2021, 12:15:40 AM »
Let the countdown begin. I've applied for another BookBub. I applied for the whole deal, not just international.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #240 on: May 25, 2021, 01:24:00 AM »
Good luck.
 

Gerri Attrick

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #241 on: May 25, 2021, 02:46:37 AM »
Good luck, Lily.

I hope to apply for my first full BookBub fairly soon (had a couple of Internationals I was pleased with, but that's a few years back). I'll let you know how it goes.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #242 on: May 26, 2021, 12:26:52 PM »
Hadn't tried much of any marketing so far, but given that my third book in the series is coming out in a couple of months I thought this was a good time to step up my game there. Reading this topic helped and doing some more research I've applied for Book Barbarian. I also got accepted.

Here's hoping for some success.
David Gaughran gives some good advice on advertising. You might check out this blog post.

https://davidgaughran.com/best-promo-sites-books/
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #243 on: May 27, 2021, 11:24:04 PM »
I got another international BookBub!  :banana:
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #244 on: May 27, 2021, 11:49:50 PM »
Congrats, LilyBlily! :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em


A.L. Hawke | Author website | Goodreads | BookBub
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #245 on: May 28, 2021, 01:52:24 AM »
Congratulations!
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #246 on: May 28, 2021, 05:04:22 AM »
Thanks. Now I have a little time in which to decide whether it is worth my while to buy at least three other newsletter ads to stack. Did that last time but only one seemed to pull its weight. The profitability of an international BookBub ad is not such that one can go hog wild with additional ads.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #247 on: May 28, 2021, 05:50:09 AM »
The fact that most newsletters don't have an international reach is an issue. I'm reducing the US price on mine as well and hoping that the two that I scheduled will pay for themselves. I just wish there was a way of planning our advertising campaigns instead of their being so catch-as-catch-can. But that is an impossible dream.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #248 on: May 28, 2021, 06:41:35 AM »
The fact that most newsletters don't have an international reach is an issue. I'm reducing the US price on mine as well and hoping that the two that I scheduled will pay for themselves. I just wish there was a way of planning our advertising campaigns instead of their being so catch-as-catch-can. But that is an impossible dream.

You raise a very good point. Everything else connected with self-publishing is quite logical and basically simple even though there are many steps involved. Advertising feels like a game of 52 Pick-Up. 
 
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Pemry Janes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #249 on: May 28, 2021, 05:42:16 PM »
Congratulations!

And I took your advice alhawke and now also have a promotion scheduled with Fantasy Book Deals.
Genre: Fantasy
 
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