3 Categories now in submission process. Is this a really big problem now?

[TimothyEllis]

I just did a new book submission just now.

It contained a question to declare if a book contains adult material or not.

And you can't enter categories until you answer it.

We can now enter 3 categories, and the whole finding sub-categories thing has been redone and is check box based.

Warning though, if you add a 3rd category to a book, and don't submit it immediately, the existing 2 get removed from the book, pending the submission.

So don't until you're ready to resubmit the book.

Looks like I've some work to do tomorrow. Most of my time travel books never went in there, so now I can add them myself.

[alhawke]

Really, Timothy! I was told in the past that if you check "adult", you run the risk of having your book sent to the dungeon. I don't object being straight with our retailers, but I don't want my books catalogued under erotica either (which has happened before, btw). I just published a book and didn't run into this.

[TimothyEllis]

Really, Timothy! I was told in the past that if you check "adult", you run the risk of having your book sent to the dungeon. I don't object being straight with our retailers, but I don't want my books catalogued under erotica either (which has happened before, btw). I just published a book and didn't run into this.

They must have just rolled it out. This was literally in the last half hour.

They do include a definition, where adult is "explicit".

And the same age range is still there. Mine are normally 14 to 18+, and haven't done anything explicit in years.

[R. C.]

Yep, just checked, Tim is correct. Was not there this morning but is there now.

R.C.

[TimothyEllis]

Someone on Quora just posted that Amazon was limiting a book to only 3 categories now, and Kindlepreneur had said so.

I've seen nothing so far to indicate that.

But give it a few days and we need to check what categories are on our books. Just in case.

[TimothyEllis]

More from the person on Quora.

Quoting Kindlepreneur:

Amazon just made an enormous change to book categories.

Until this week, it used to be that authors could add up to ten categories to a book. Now, Amazon is limiting that to only three. They also have a brand new way to update your categories [video link]

This new rule means that instead of a spread out approach when choosing categories, authors should now focus on highly targeted category selection. Since you only have three opportunities, make sure you do the research so each of them counts.

If this is true, then it's going to be a disaster.

But as yet, I can't even verify the site article.

Anyone using Kindlepreneur who can verify it?

[Bill Hiatt]

We've only been able to explicitly select three in the past. The others were added through Amazon's analysis of keywords, correct? So in order for anyone to know that Amazon changed what it was doing behind the scenes, Amazon would have to have made a public statement, right? I'm not getting how anyone would know so quickly that such a change had been made absent that.

[alhawke]

In my last two launches at .99, I was taken off categories with less competition. That affected rank. This time with my launch at $2.99 and more limited sales (due to the higher selling price), the categories I asked for were still visible on Amazon during launch. Interesting... Makes me wonder if the algorithms are now knocking off less competitive categories to keep books from ranking high during launch blitzs? Especially with low price launches at 99c.

We all know category selection affects rank. And sometimes, as we've talked about before, publishers have categorized books under the most outlandish inappropriate classifications. Seems Amazon is cracking down on this and making it less of a marketing tool. Now only three categories? If so, I don't think we're gonna see much of a difference cause I think they've been knocking off categories over the past year.

But it limits our marketing arsenal. I've hardly ever seen any advantage with keywords. So... not much left for visibility except advertising??

{edit: Okay everything I said above has to do with multiple categories. I'm hearing on social media that they've sent an announcement. I haven't received that. If they're only allowing the three provided upon book submission, this is very bad. The ones made available are typically super saturated categories like "Paranormal Romance"  If it's three created by their algorithms upon publishing, it's a really big problem now.

[writeway]

Yeah, some are freaking out and others love the change. I am not messing with the cats of any of my old books. I will just pick the 3 cats with new books. They did remove a cat I used which makes no sense since it was a popular cat. I emailed Amazon about it and they said they would look into it. Why would you remove a cat, I have no idea. I have heard others have been removed while newer ones added. It is what it is. I'm fine with the change if it makes categorizing books easier and they do give more choices. More cats to try out and things. But they did this because so many people were abusing the system by having their books added to several extra categories even when the books didn't fit. I doubt this will stop all the abuse because you can still stick books in the wrong cats and I highly doubt Amazon is going to be paying attention, but it puts everyone on an even playing field now. We all only get 3 cats and that's it. As for the adult box, yeah have to check it now but some are panicking thinking their books will be hidden, stuck in erotica, or the dungeon, this isn't true. It's so much fearmongering on social media about this but of course what would the indie world be without fearmongering? 

So it's a big change but like everything it's hard to work with change but we'll adjust and will probably like it better. I know I will if this keeps authors from stuffing their books in the wrong cats and taking space and visibility from authors who belong there.

As they say, "bank over rank". I focus on getting more visibility OFF Amazon these days than on it. Even being in KU that's my mindset now. Meaning doing promotions in other places and bringing folks to my books on Amazon so I don't have to depend on Amazon's algorithms to show my books. I don't do AMS anymore, etc. But it's getting clear that with the addition of ads and all the other changes on Amazon now, you can't depend on Amazon for visibility whether you are in KU or not. And with the change in categories (I'm being positive in giving it a chance and thinking it could work better for authors) it's more reason to have some type of marketing plan that does not focus so much on Amazon or the rankings. Contrary to popular opinion you can make pretty decent money and don't have to be in the Top 100 for every single book.

This is another thing that I feel will show authors not to put so much stock in the visibility and algorthms at Amazon. That way, when they make sweeping changes, you can handle them better.

[writeway]

We've only been able to explicitly select three in the past. The others were added through Amazon's analysis of keywords, correct? So in order for anyone to know that Amazon changed what it was doing behind the scenes, Amazon would have to have made a public statement, right? I'm not getting how anyone would know so quickly that such a change had been made absent that.

Yeah, the others were added by authors emailing for several cats so some had 10. Many authors didn't even know about this practice so it gave the authors who did a significant advantage. But now we all have three and that's it. No more asking.

When has Amazon ever made a public statement about any KDP stuff outside of starting Kindle Unlimited and Vella?  Amazon doesn't make public statements about these changes. They tell a few reps and the authors in with them like Craig Martelle from 20booksto50k (who broke the news in the group because Amazon gave him the go-ahead) who pass it on to everyone else. Amazon never even sends emails letting us know about stuff like this. You either find out on social media or you end up writing them to add more categories then they tell you no. So, I highly doubt a public statement is coming from KDP. They rely on the authorspere to pass stuff around for them, which is the problem because then you get all this misinformation, panicking, and fearmongering.

But this is why the 20booksto50k group is so invaluable because Craig actually has Amazon's ear. He is always having meetings with them, etc. If it wasn't for him the indies would really be left in the dark. All the big news comes out of that group.

[alhawke]

So I took a look at all my books. The vast majority of my books are categorized correctly with the three categories chosen . They seem to fit the categories accurately and I'm wondering if Amazon chose the categories based on former sales??

But there are a couple where an alternative category would work better. I'm wondering if categories can be swapped within the three choices? Would it be possible to do it by republishing? Please let me know if anyone's done that as the new guidelines indicate category requests are not being accepted via the KDP contact. Also, with the changes, what happened to all those "secret" categories based on keywords? Are those categories gone?

[Lynn]

https://www.kdpcommunity.com/s/article/Changes-to-the-KDP-Categories-Experience?language=en_US&forum=KDP%20Forum&topicId=0TOf4000000XcD2GAK

Changes to the KDP Categories Experience
June 01, 2023
Hello,

We heard your feedback about needing a better way to choose categories for KDP books. We’re excited to announce that you can now choose categories that match the Amazon Store for your book’s primary marketplace.

The new categories experience has these new features:

    Self-service experience. From your KDP Book Details page, you can now choose up to three categories for your book in your primary marketplace. This is one additional category than what was previously available with the old experience.
    Dynamic updates. The new categories selector stays up to date with the Amazon Store as new categories are added over time. New categories display within 24 hours of going live, so you can confidently select the category that's right for your book.
    Links to the Amazon Store. After you select a category, you'll see the link to the Amazon Store where you can view other books in the same category.
    Improved Age Range for Children’s and Teen & Young Adult Books. The Reading Age Range field is now available for all book formats (eBook, paperback, and hardcover). If you write Children’s and Teen & Young Adult books, you can now set the minimum and maximum reading ages yourself with no need to contact customer service.

To learn more about the new categories experience, visit our Help page. Have a question? Contact us.

Thanks for using Amazon KDP.
Regards,
Kindle Direct Publishing

[Anarchist]

I focus on getting more visibility OFF Amazon these days than on it.

This is a good idea, especially if that visibility drives traffic to Amazon. Traffic delivered to Amazon from other sites is part of the A10 algo. It helps with organic ranking for keyword targets.

If that traffic results in sales, even better (according to A10).

[TimothyEllis]

Amazon can paint that any way it wants, but it's just the continual eroding of visibility to force authors to use AMS, which I consider just a legal scam.

It's getting harder and harder to find a decent read, and now books won't even be in findable categories anymore?

I think whoever decided this was a good idea at Amazon should be quietly taken out and shot!

It's another FU to authors struggling to get visibility of any kind.

And it can only result in sales going down, AGAIN, because we can't be found by the genre readers who don't monitor the bigger categories where getting a higher rank is the only prestige we get as Indies.

[TimothyEllis]

Okay, I just proved the limit of 3 categories is bunkum.

I added a new book yesterday, using the new 3 categories system.

Here's the category ranks for he book now.

NONE of them are the 3 I used.

It went into Space Opera, Epic Fantasy, and Superhero. None of those 3 are showing.

[Bill Hiatt]

Interestingly, I never heard of emailing to get into more than three categories, and I've spent a lot of time soaking up what I could on forums.

Timothy, I'm not sure whether your example proves that Amazon is limiting books to three categories or whether the change hasn't rolled out completely. But if we assume it has, maybe the change only had to do with asking for extra categories. Perhaps categories derived from keywords in some way still work. If that's the case, then the change actually could be positive in some ways, as writeway suggests. I would imagine there were lots of authors who didn't know they could mail in for extra categories. (I knew trad publishers could request additional categories, but they can do a lot of things we can't.

[TimothyEllis]

Interestingly, I never heard of emailing to get into more than three categories, and I've spent a lot of time soaking up what I could on forums.

Timothy, I'm not sure whether your example proves that Amazon is limiting books to three categories or whether the change hasn't rolled out completely. But if we assume it has, maybe the change only had to do with asking for extra categories. Perhaps categories derived from keywords in some way still work. If that's the case, then the change actually could be positive in some ways, as writeway suggests. I would imagine there were lots of authors who didn't know they could mail in for extra categories. (I knew trad publishers could request additional categories, but they can do a lot of things we can't.

If you look at Mercedes Lackey's books, you see they only have 2 categories showing. Which suggests the Trads know even less than we do and are not asking for extras at all.

We'll have to wait and see if some sort of rollout is happening, but I'd have thought a new book on pre-order after the change was put in would have followed the new rules.

[writeway]

Craig in 20booksto50K has reached out to Amazon for more info on this since everyone is confused about the adult content box, etc. Some are saying they were thrown in the dungeon or thrown into erotica (which are two different things) after checking it. Others claim they don't know if they should check it or not and what Amazon is considering adult content but if you don't check it you lose out on more categories that only show up after clicking the box. So those of you who are in that group who need further clarification might wanna keep an eye on it for when he posts again. Until then, if you are scared to be thrown in the dungeon, do what is within your control like make sure your blurbs and keywords are "safe" especially if you write romance and erotica.  Some are not ticking the adult-only box but I caution against that because of the punishment you could face if Amazon found out people purposely lied about having adult content in their books.

[alhawke]

Craig in 20booksto50K has reached out to Amazon for more info on this since everyone is confused about the adult content box, etc. Some are saying they were thrown in the dungeon or thrown into erotica (which are two different things) after checking it. Others claim they don't know if they should check it or not and what Amazon is considering adult content but if you don't check it you lose out on more categories that only show up after clicking the box. So those of you who are in that group who need further clarification might wanna keep an eye on it for when he posts again. Until then, if you are scared to be thrown in the dungeon, do what is within your control like make sure your blurbs and keywords are "safe" especially if you write romance and erotica.  Some are not ticking the adult-only box but I caution against that because of the punishment you could face if Amazon found out people purposely lied about having adult content in their books.

Guess I'm fortunate I'm not releasing a book right now.

[Lynn]

Craig in 20booksto50K has reached out to Amazon for more info on this since everyone is confused about the adult content box, etc. Some are saying they were thrown in the dungeon or thrown into erotica (which are two different things) after checking it. Others claim they don't know if they should check it or not and what Amazon is considering adult content but if you don't check it you lose out on more categories that only show up after clicking the box. So those of you who are in that group who need further clarification might wanna keep an eye on it for when he posts again. Until then, if you are scared to be thrown in the dungeon, do what is within your control like make sure your blurbs and keywords are "safe" especially if you write romance and erotica.  Some are not ticking the adult-only box but I caution against that because of the punishment you could face if Amazon found out people purposely lied about having adult content in their books.

If I've read similar books that I've bought at a store that didn't require me to show proof of age, I'm not going to check the box. Adult content in a legal context is not the same as an explicit sex scene within a story of text. And that's the assumption I'm going to make about this until I hear definitively otherwise, that it's to satisfy people worried about what they see on the site (naked bits, vulgar words, etc, in your face) and/or concerns of legal exposure. Not what's hidden within the text that you have to buy to read (even freebies have to be bought on Amazon before they show up in your library).

[writeway]

I would caution anyone to be careful when classifying their work. I would NOT click "no" in that box if you know your work has things in it that make it an adult book. The thing is that Amazon could have (and I am betting they might) something automatically in place that shows them when people bypass that box. Amazon has no issues snatching authors' accounts and banning them if they feel they purposely miscategorized their work. Someone also mentioned the scenario of parents complaining if their kids end up with a book that was in the wrong place and it turns out to be explicit. If parents come down on Amazon, they will come down on the author and most likely just kick them off the platform. It's one thing to "not" click a box if that was an option but to click "no" on a book that you know is explicit or adult is again dangerous. Of course, people have to make their own decisions. I am just saying I have seen how Amazon has wrecked authors' careers when they went on a "round up" and started banning accounts. We do not know what they have in place as punishment for this. Also, if people do this, what about your keywords? For example, if you have a romance book and click "no" on the adult box. The bots still detect your keywords. Amazon will know you are misleading people if your keywords say, "hot steamy alpha romance" for example. Are people going so far as to change their keywords too to not seem "adult" because you might have to if you don't click that box and risk being banned? And, you don't wanna change your keywords if you write a steamy romance because then readers won't find it.

But, yeah. I don't wanna be on the bad side of Amazon. I know people who got their accounts banned by mistake and never got them back. I've not had any problems changing things with the new cats. Haven't been dungeoned or anything. A lot of this is fearmongering. A few authors probably had issues and then the indie community ran with it. Most authors haven't had any issues and many of the ones who thought they were in the dungeon, weren't. They just didn't give their books enough time to show up.

[Wifey]

I checked the Adult Content button for my RomCom series, no dungeon. I changed my categories for most of my books and they seem to be retaining the original cats as well as the new, more precise ones.

[alhawke]

I checked the Adult Content button for my RomCom series, no dungeon. I changed my categories for most of my books and they seem to be retaining the original cats as well as the new, more precise ones.

Thanks for reporting. I'm close to switching a few books and seeing what happens. But I haven't changed anything yet. Many of my books still have multiple categories, but you're reporting that they're retained. Hmm... Not sure yet. Do the other categories ever show up in the algorithms with searches?? I might change too since a lot of the categories don't fit optimally.

[LilyBLily]

I write closed door. I don't consider that adult content, even though it's not squeaky clean, either. Is it "adult" to have sex before marriage? Or just immoral and a sin and God will strike you dead?

What I don't like about this is that I am forced to republish all my books just to make sure they have three categories. Tedious work and the category list is hardly better than BISAC. No sub-sub-categories. I'm stuck with "Romance>Contemporary" for my third cat, which is utterly hopeless.

[TimothyEllis]

What I don't like about this is that I am forced to republish all my books just to make sure they have three categories.

You don't need to.

My new one seems to have all the categories as normal on it.

And my latest release was re-submitted with an update yesterday, and 2 of the 3 categories showing ranks are not the ones the book was given.

It doesn't look like any existing categories are lost. It really seems to be a streamlining of the selection process, and getting a 3rd main one.

[Wifey]

Agreed. If anything, this seems to make the keywords less important

[TimothyEllis]

Interesting.

A couple of days after submitting a goof fix with the 3rd category, that category just turned up on the product page rank list.

And it's half the value of the other 2. Which probably indicates if it had been there when the book went live, I might have come close to picking up an orange tag in it.

So I think maybe that's the power of the 3rd category.

You use the first 2 for the main categories, and the 3rd one for the sub-category you're most likely to do the best in.

[alhawke]

I'm still considering re-publishing with only 3 categories (obviously with new titles, we don't have a choice). But... I've held back. After taking a look at the categories of Trads, I see that most of the big publishers have not made the leap yet. Many still have like 16 categories. And here's a big thing: the categories for my books keep mixing to other categories after new purchases. That means that, I think, the system is taking past categories and showing those matched with purchases. But I'm not sure. I've got to decide soon cause I've got a big promo coming up. I think I'm still going to wait and see how this all plays out. If the system continues to filter through many categories, why switch to only 3 with older titles

[TimothyEllis]

I'm still considering re-publishing with only 3 categories (obviously with new titles, we don't have a choice). But... I've held back. After taking a look at the categories of Trads, I see that most of the big publishers have not made the leap yet. Many still have like 16 categories. And here's a big thing: the categories for my books keep mixing to other categories after new purchases. That means that, I think, the system is taking past categories and showing those matched with purchases. But I'm not sure. I've got to decide soon cause I've got a big promo coming up. I think I'm still going to wait and see how this all plays out. If the system continues to filter through many categories, why switch to only 3 with older titles

I don't get what you're talking about here.

The only change I can see is 2 main categories is now 3 main categories, and there is no change to sub-categories at all.

So changing a book from 2 to 3, isn't reducing it from 16 down to 3.

If you know of a book that has and a site that can show that, let me know.

I still see my latest release, which got the third category the other day, in categories not specified as those 3. Likewise my current pre-order.

[alhawke]

The only change I can see is 2 main categories is now 3 main categories, and there is no change to sub-categories at all.

The books I've previously published still have multiple categories listed. After a purchase, the category changes.

Here's how, as an example: Today the categories for my book Broomstick are Dark Fantasy Horror and Coming of Age. Yesterday they were Metaphysical Fantasy and Coming of Age. A few days ago, the categories showing were Paranormal romance witches and Coming of Age. The categories are rotating after each purchase based on, I think, the prior genre interests of the buyers. This is the way the old system worked, I believe.

I've heard a suggestion outside of the forum to not change one's older books to three selected categories because that will take out all the other additional categories for the title. But is this good advice? I'm not sure what's best?? For instance, in a bestselling blitz, which category would be chosen? And if you change your old titles to three selected categories, are they even going to remain static?

These are the things I've been considering before I make my switch to the static three for older titles. For newer titles, we don't have a choice, of course.

[TimothyEllis]

The only change I can see is 2 main categories is now 3 main categories, and there is no change to sub-categories at all.

The books I've previously published still have multiple categories listed. After a purchase, the category changes.

Here's how, as an example: Today the categories for my book Broomstick are Dark Fantasy Horror and Coming of Age. Yesterday they were Metaphysical Fantasy and Coming of Age. A few days ago, the categories showing were Paranormal romance witches and Coming of Age. The categories are rotating after each purchase based on, I think, the prior genre interests of the buyers. This is the way the old system worked, I believe.

I've heard a suggestion outside of the forum to not change one's older books to three selected categories because that will take out all the other additional categories for the title. But is this good advice? I'm not sure what's best?? For instance, in a bestselling blitz, which category would be chosen? And if you change your old titles to three selected categories, are they even going to remain static?

These are the things I've been considering before I make my switch to the static three for older titles. For newer titles, we don't have a choice, of course.

The 3 being shown are supposed to be the best three ranks from all the categories the book is in.

So yes, if one category has more sales and the rank changes more, it should be listed first on the three. That should be normal and unchanged.

I don't know where that advice is coming from, but it's not my experience.

I did change the 3 categories for my most recent release, and as of now, 2 of the ones showing are NOT the categories I chose. 1 is.

So nothing has been removed from before the category change went in.

[RiverRun]

Amazon seems to have made some changes to their category selection process. (I apologize if this has already been discussed here.)

The Kindlepreneur guy, Dave Chesson, sent out a long email through his mailing list talking about how some are actually 'ghost' categories.

This is it. https://kindlepreneur.com/how-to-choose-the-best-kindle-ebook-kdp-category/

Some categories seem to overlap, and are apparently the same category with different names. I skimmed and honestly wasn't able to make much sense of whether this was going to affect me or not. But KDP now suggests that I update my categories when I went to edit something else. My book is not selling right now anyway so it won't make much practical difference, but its always nice to understand what I'm doing when I change something. Is this an issue to be concerned about?

[TimothyEllis]

If you go into the submission process to change anything, the categories on your book are removed.

You need to immediately change to the new 3 category system, and resubmit as soon as possible.

Most of the categories haven't changed that I can see. Some have, a few seem to be gone, and a few are hidden in a drop down menu.

When I find the thread this was first discussed in, I'll merge this one in. [Done]

[LilyBLily]

I think it is an issue to be concerned about, since now, according to Dave, there are ghost categories. If I understand him, whatever categories our books currently are in now may lead nowhere, so we must change everything. Yikes.

Look at what Amazon has done to the sales page, too. It now allows you to examine the book cover at very large size--which is of no practical use to anyone buying a book. What are they thinking? You'd want to examine some other kind of product in that nearly microscopic detail, but not a book cover.

[alhawke]

I took a chance and redid the categories on Amazon for my witch series. So far I'm happy I changed it. Some forums and blogs were recommending that you don't change it because you'll lose the former categories but I found that I was able to push the better categories back onto the books. Metaphysical fantasy, for example, was formerly erased. Now it's back up in the US market. The question is will it stick? I also notice that Amazon still chooses the categories it wants based on your keywords so be aware that you might end up with very different ones from the ones you choose. Ultimately, we don't have control. But I recommend writers make sure those keywords match their requests.