Author Topic: Has Atticus improved?  (Read 453 times)

LilyBLily

Has Atticus improved?
« on: July 04, 2023, 10:43:06 AM »
I didn't want to revive a zombie thread, but I've just read the one from late 2021 that strongly suggested Atticus was not yet ready for prime time. I wonder if Atticus is any better now than it was when it debuted.

Ordinarily, I pay someone to format my books. The problem with that is the nitpicky stuff, like when I want to make a change in an already published book. Making those small file changes is an inconvenience to the formatter--not worth their time and sometimes done sloppily; I feel guilty asking. (No one has ever charged me for the odd change here or there, but I sense the lack of attention to detail a paid formatter has toward an edit to a file. Like a lot of publishing services, it's a volume business.)

Because I'm planning to change the title of one of my books that's listed in every book I've published, I'm going to want to update both ebook and print editions. Over forty files needing a change. I've updated files previously in Calibre, stumbling my way through the HTML and checking the validity with D2D. Or would it be better to buy a formatting program like Atticus and reformat completely?
 

alhawke

Re: Has Atticus improved?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2023, 10:54:10 AM »
I'll start by saying I don't know--about Atticus, that is. But what I've gathered from posts and an occasional glance at my Kindlepreneur newsletter is that it's constantly improving, so I'd take a look again.

I would definitely consider you purchase your own software and do it yourself. My first book was around $400 to format. Vellum (which is as reliable as word for documents for me and I highly recommend) cost me a one time fee of $250. I haven't spent any extra money 18 books later (boxes set, paperback/hardcovers too) in four years. Not only that, but formatting with a professional formatter is a pain because you have to write back and forth over things you need changed--like narrators with audiobooks; something you can do in seconds with your own programming.
 
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Matthew

Re: Has Atticus improved?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2023, 12:38:01 PM »
Well, it's improved, but I honestly think it's not a good product. Maybe I'm too perfectionist.

The main problems in my opinion are for print:
  • You cannot use your own licensed fonts, because the PDF generation is done on their servers (and there's no way to upload a custom font).
  • The word spacing is bad.

However most of the other things lacking in that old thread are still lacking. No support for tables, no support for half point fonts, etc.

I think the widow/orphan control has improved (with respect to paragraph lines split across pages), but there's still plenty of words alone on a line. Maybe I'm more cognizant of it, but I'll have to go through some trad pub books and compare more in this area...

For ebooks, I think it's fine. It's not impressive, but it's good enough for me. I've been using it while working on my own ebook creation software.

For writing books, it's just plain awful.
  • Still no dark mode
  • Support for scenes is lacking. At least now chapters in the binder can be expanded to reveal scenes, and you can click scenes and edit only one scene at a time. Except, you cannot manually add a scene. You have to add new scenes by creating new scene breaks within the chapter view. Which means if you want to insert a scene between scenes 3 and 4, you have to do it from the chapter view. Despite the fact that you can name scenes, scene names do not show in the chapter view! When you rearrange scenes, your selection / editing view of scenes is reset. So e.g. you're editing scene 3, move it to before scene 2, and it switches the editor view to the chapter view.
  • Even more limited choice of fonts for the editor
  • Cannot resize the editor unless you resize the entire window
  • Can't hide the notebook/binder
  • No distraction-free / fullscreen writing mode
  • There's no automatic smart quotes. This is seriously baffling. The solution they offer is a button that converts all quotes in a book to smart or straight quotes, but it still does not do real-time smart quotes as you type.
  • There's still a bug where if you stay logged in too long your login session expires, and the entire Atticus window is blank. AND IT STILL DOESN'T SHOW AN ERROR MESSAGE OR LOGIN FORM. I'm so mad you guys. I reported this bug more than two years ago. I think this is a very user unfriendly bug that non-technical people will be confused by and the only solution is a "magic hotkey" to force reload the app.

At first I thought the product was just rushed to market, but it's been years now and I'm still not happy with it.

If you want professional results, a pro formatter is probably worth the money. You can always do it yourself using tools like InDesign or Affinity Publisher for limitless design freedom, but that comes at the cost of learning how to format yourself and it can be quite time consuming to learn.

If your books are relatively simple novels and you're not too picky, Atticus might be fine. I think the lack of control is generally considered a "feature" to make the software easier to use. But I have standards, god damn it. (this was mostly meant as a joke but it rings true)

In general I would agree with alhawke in that working with a person can be a time-consuming pain. Plus it can be expensive, revisions may not be free, etc. I still have not personally used Vellum, but if you're looking to changing backmatter for every book you have published, reformatting everything using Vellum is probably the best solution. My personal opinion is that I still do not consider Atticus good enough to use for print. So since you want to update both ebook and print, I would recommend you try out Vellum and see if you like the results.

Keep in mind, if you do want to use Vellum (or Atticus, although please don't) for print, you should be sure to order new proof copies. So here's the problem with your plan: using completely different software to reformat the book for what is essentially maybe a one line change or something is taking a sledgehammer to the walls. It might be good for your future and the best choice for more control over your work and ease of updating in the future, but a change in the formatting may cause significant changes to the page count, especially if you don't know all of the details of the margins, spacings, font sizes etc. that your formatter used. A change in page count may result in a change in the spine width, so you may have to update your cover images for print to the correct size.
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Has Atticus improved?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2023, 11:14:53 PM »
Interesting! Before reading Matthew's critique, I looked at the website, and Atticus actually looked impressive, though I did have a few questions.

I've used Vellum for a number of years now and am very happy with it. As a PC user, I'm irked that it only works on Mac. When I first bought it, I had a Macbook that I used for some work purposes. When that Mac got too old to update to the minimum OS for the new version of Vellum, I bought the cheapest new Macbook I could find, just to use Vellum.

Vellum is a small company, but it does take care of bugs, one of the weaknesses in Atticus that Matthew points out. When I pointed out a problem with spread balancing in print editions, it was fixed in a very short time.

Recently, Vellum has also added a lot of features for nonfiction. (It started out as a very fiction-centric program.) Now it's much easier to do footnotes, bibliography, etc.

Even Atticus's own comparison chart doesn't suggest that many areas where Vellum is lacking. And one of the contrasts is inaccurate--Vellum can generate a Word doc (for sending to an editor, for example) even though the chart implies it can't. I do my own cloud storage, and although version control would be interesting, I can live without it.


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skeletor

Re: Has Atticus improved?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2023, 07:28:46 AM »
Bumping this old thread because Atticus has my attention.

I'm a longtime Vellum user. I love Vellum, but it's annoying that I can only use it on my Mac. The fact that Atticus is browser-based is very attractive to me, since it would allow me to bring some of my other (non Mac) devices into the fold. My formatting needs are basic; I just need to produce a passable ebook and print version. I have no need of fancy fonts, footnotes or other such features.

Does anyone have experience using Atticus on a tablet or phone? If I could get formatting work done at a library or coffee shop with just my tablet and some Bluetooth peripherals, I'd be a happy, happy camper.
 

djmills

Re: Has Atticus improved?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2023, 07:56:23 AM »
I use Scribus 1.4.1 on my Windows laptop and Scribus 1.4.6 on my Ubuntu laptop to format all my print books. It is very similar as InDesign but free.

I also wrote a book on Creating Print on Demand Interiors and Covers using Scribus 1.4.1.
However, each chapter is a blog post on my blog. It starts here: https://djmills.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/creating-print-on-demand-interiors-and-covers-using-scribus-part-1/

Once you work out your page layouts, headers, footers, chapter starts, fonts, etc on your templates, it is a matter of copy and pasting your text into each chapter and checking for right edge hyphens, Keaning, other spacing, etc. for each page. Total control of the layout.
Diane J Cornwell - Fiction
D J Mills - Non Fiction
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