Author Topic: Interesting article about diversity in Romance  (Read 3465 times)

Lady T L Jennings

Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« on: April 04, 2019, 11:41:33 PM »

There is a pretty long article in The Guardian about diversity in romance, which I thought was worth sharing.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/04/fifty-shades-of-white-romance-novels-racism-ritas-rwa

Quote of the day:
“People say: ‘Well, I can’t relate,’” Jenkins told NPR a few years ago, after watching white readers simply walk past her table at a book signing. “You can relate to shapeshifters, you can relate to vampires, you can relate to werewolves, but you can’t relate to a story written by and about black Americans?”
Lady T. L. Jennings ~ Writing Victorian Romance and ohlala in longhand since 2011. Visit her at: www.mysecretquill.com

     
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LilyBLily

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 12:47:10 AM »
Lots of discussion on the private RWA forums regarding rooting out bias in judging contests and how to be inclusive in what we write and in the organization in general.

Of course Jenkins' question blandly ignores and yet skewers our country's particular history of negative racial socialization. Every country, indeed, every region, has its own, but ours in the U.S. regarding black people seems especially poisonous. And then there is the treatment of non-hetero people. With our country's go-getter history, we don't like the idea that we are unable to achieve whatever we set out to do, but here we are, long overdue to have fixed many things in our society. I don't think it's likely that entire generations raised to consider relationships with the "other" taboo are going to suddenly change what they fantasize about, but we all can write more inclusive stories.

Bottom line, "nice white ladies" have a range of reactions to being told we've been basking in white privilege. Some of us cite our personal struggles and say we're not smug and not privileged. Even so, many of us in the RWA recognize that viewing the world as it is today through the lens of our childhood is to wear blinders. We are open to trying to do the newest "right thing," even when the right thing involves getting out of whatever comfort zone we might have, researching and learning about others, remembering to use different pronouns, and not automatically creating characters who are offensive stereotypes. 

But no, I'm not really down with vampires. 
 

okey dokey

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 01:50:02 AM »
I learned long, long ago, to both my pain and sorrow, to stay away from this subject.
 
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LilyBLily

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 02:25:16 AM »
I learned long, long ago, to both my pain and sorrow, to stay away from this subject.

Yes, I'm totally hiding behind my anonymity here. I haven't dared to comment on the RWA forum because this is one of those situations where by merely being who and what I am, I'm technically in the wrong. At least I wasn't involved in the Rita Awards judging fiasco.

 

bookworm

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 02:33:30 AM »
Whenever I see these racism articles I think of my stint at an inner city public school (I was an unpaid intern). Two little boys came running up to me. "Miss! Louis just called me white! That's racist!"

I found that eye opening but now it seems obvious. I'm sure the Asians have an offensive term for non-Asians too.
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 02:52:41 AM »
"Anonymity of submissions is actually proven to be quite bias disrupting. When orchestras started moving to “blind” auditions, women musicians increased."

Great quote from the article by Kharma Kelley discussing the need to be more inclusive in romance groups and how to go about it.  Also discusses the difference in being invited to the party and being asked to dance.

https://medium.com/@kharmakelley/how-a-dei-advocate-case-studies-the-ritas-7a8faa9a1079


« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 02:56:18 AM by Lorri Moulton [Lavender Lass Books] »

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
 

idontknowyet

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2019, 08:28:54 AM »
There are many authors that write books about people of varied ethnicities and sell very well. It all in the packaging.
 

Vidya

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 09:51:24 AM »
There are many authors that write books about people of varied ethnicities and sell very well.

who are these authors? I don't  know many. I know of Patterson’s Alex Cross series.
 

idontknowyet

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 10:40:49 AM »
There are many authors that write books about people of varied ethnicities and sell very well.

who are these authors? I don't  know many. I know of Patterson’s Alex Cross series.

Kristen Ashley
Julie Garwood
Ruby Dixon

I know there are tons more. I tried to pull from different genre's within romance. I don't keep a list of them. They are out there doing well.  There are work around for authors until society learns to change their bigotry. As authors we need understand what sells and why and how to write the books we want and have them sell.  I agree that it needs to change that we should be able to put a person of any ethnicity on the cover and still have it sell, but at this point it doesn't. So work around people. How many times have you heard a person say I put the book down I was reading because the main character was ____ (insert ethnicity here)? I've never heard it once. I've heard over and over people put a book down cause the story stunk for a number of other reasons. 


Romance books are not about politics equality or any other tough subject. Ultimately they are about people falling in love.  When stories become a platform for any of those tough topics issues arise. 

Now any book can have a bigot reviewing it, but more often than not they boost the ratings not harm them. How many times have you read a rant review this books contained x don't read it. Then you'll see 20 reviews saying they bought the book and loved it because of that disgusting review.

I read way too many reviews of books way too many.
 
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Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 12:37:24 PM »
This goes back to the idea or putting recognizable human figures, especially faces, on book covers. IMO it's very risky. It strengthens the identification between the picture and the reader. It's a double edged sword. If the figure lines up with reader expectation and identification--"that person looks like me!!!" it can help--but there are far more pitfalls than advantages to that strategy, because there's a lot more potentiality for NOT identifying.

Unfortunately, put a person of one identifiable type on the cover--especially a face--and you will reduce the identification with people not of that type. You can choose to do that and try to overcome the -isms, or you can find a more neutral cover and then introduce the non-majority or controversial or "different" elements within the text of the story.

That's because book covers sell books--and people often make a decision to buy or not within seconds. This process tends to bypass conscious thought and all good intentions, and goes straight to the unconscious/subconscious, including prejudices and biases. It's the thing that makes us instinctively flinch from the "other," even if we try to be better people than that.

So the choice is, put those triggers out there and trust people to overcome their own prejudices with thoughtfulness--or avoid those triggers and probably sell more books. It's certainly a dilemma.
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LilyBLily

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 01:22:21 PM »
I've read more than one book with Asian main characters whose covers never had a hint of their ethnicity. The publishers were taking no chances. As for stories about gays, those were slid in now and then, but not usually as main characters. But that was decades ago, and what was taken as the norm by a generation that is currently dying off is not necessarily what appeals to a younger cadre. And plenty of people never liked that norm in the first place.

As indies, we have a unique opportunity to write and publish whatever feels right, but we still want mass sales, not niche. There's no standard inclusive cover style that I know of that signals inclusiveness. But surely covers that don't signal inclusiveness are a risk, too. Go blandly traditional so as not to turn away one group and those who trail along with it, and find yourself turning away a different group that is actively looking for inclusive stories and diverse characters.

I suspect someone will solve this problem soon. 
 

idontknowyet

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 02:05:21 PM »
There is actually one genre within romance that I'm surprised hasn't had more success with being able to rise above racial stereotypes. Bad Boy Romance. Cause really does anyone really notice anything else anyway. Naked Man chest with rippling muscles is the draw.
 

LD

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 02:25:57 PM »
There are many authors that write books about people of varied ethnicities and sell very well.

who are these authors? I don't  know many. I know of Patterson’s Alex Cross series.

Kristen Ashley
Julie Garwood
Ruby Dixon

I know there are tons more. I tried to pull from different genre's within romance. I don't keep a list of them. They are out there doing well.  There are work around for authors until society learns to change their bigotry. As authors we need understand what sells and why and how to write the books we want and have them sell.  I agree that it needs to change that we should be able to put a person of any ethnicity on the cover and still have it sell, but at this point it doesn't. So work around people. How many times have you heard a person say I put the book down I was reading because the main character was ____ (insert ethnicity here)? I've never heard it once. I've heard over and over people put a book down cause the story stunk for a number of other reasons. 


Yes. 

Years ago at the library they had a line of books that were all written by black authors.  I thought it would be regular stories, just with black characters, with some cultural differences as a result.  I picked up a few.  They were all TERRIBLE.  As in, the writing.  They were all amateurish and made me feel the authors only got contracted solely based on their race, not on the strength of their writing.  (It was a major publisher, so they should have been able to have strong books. But they didn't.  And in fact, I believe that line was discontinued later.)

Then I read a historical romance, by Jenkins, actually, if I am remembering correctly, and that was what those other books should have been -- a good story that incorporated the black characters and their culture in a natural way.  Not only was it well written, it opened up my eyes to a lot of black history (Jim Crow played a heavy role in the storyline). 

I think having diverse characters is harder though, just in having to "explain" cultural differences.  Aliens, you can make up whatever you want.  But with non-white characters, it's not that easy.  So people (Hollywood being the biggest offender) re-package them to conform to the white cultural norms, because it's what people are used to and won't find as confusing.  They just think people don't want to learn about other cultures, but it's what's given, so there's not much choice.  But I think people would accept diverse characters and cultures pretty well, if given the chance.  Take Joy Luck Club, for example, though it's not romance.  That movie was HUGE.  And I think its authenticity played a huge part in its success.  It portrayed the Asian culture really well, as well as the Asian-American culture and the melding of the two.  Much of the dialogue was straight up in Chinese with subtitles, it was a mostly Asian cast, yet people still embraced it.  I remember Slumdog Millionaire had done pretty well too.  And then recently there's been more shows and movies centered around Asians (like that highly successful movie about filthy rich Asians, don't remember what it's called), which people seem to be very receptive to.  I think it's just we're not really giving audiences the chance to read more diverse works.  But it is harder to write though, so I think that's also a barrier in why audiences aren't given the chance.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 02:32:43 PM by LD »
 

LD

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 02:29:32 PM »
I've read more than one book with Asian main characters whose covers never had a hint of their ethnicity. The publishers were taking no chances.
Have you seen the (few) stock photos of Asians though?  They're not very good.  It's like they were forced to pose against their will, they look like they don't want to be there.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 11:14:14 PM »
Indies say that finding good nonwhite stock photos is really hard. I have to agree. For my two books that feature black heroines and white heroes, I never found anything I liked. I finally went with a guy on the cover for one, and for the other, my cover designer created a swirling look around a figure that readers could take as any color they wanted. That series is a dog for other reasons, so it's not a good test of how readers respond to obscured ethnicity today. If and when I totally rewrite that series and rebrand it (probably not going to happen), I'd be frank that this book features a black heroine and a white man. Maybe by then I'd be familiar with the identifiers of that particular niche genre. It may already have its symbols and I'm simply not aware of them and neither was my designer. So far, I haven't seen any photos appropriate for my sweet, closed-door romances. I have to be very careful with any clinch cover look so it doesn't signal "Steamy read ahead!" Obviously, I can't use man chest covers at all.   
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 10:42:40 AM »
I'm going to recommend KD Ritchie. She has some beautiful and diverse covers on Facebook!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/storywrappers/

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Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2019, 09:34:11 AM »
Lots of discussion on the private RWA forums regarding rooting out bias in judging contests and how to be inclusive in what we write and in the organization in general.

Of course Jenkins' question blandly ignores and yet skewers our country's particular history of negative racial socialization. Every country, indeed, every region, has its own, but ours in the U.S. regarding black people seems especially poisonous. And then there is the treatment of non-hetero people. With our country's go-getter history, we don't like the idea that we are unable to achieve whatever we set out to do, but here we are, long overdue to have fixed many things in our society. I don't think it's likely that entire generations raised to consider relationships with the "other" taboo are going to suddenly change what they fantasize about, but we all can write more inclusive stories.

Bottom line, "nice white ladies" have a range of reactions to being told we've been basking in white privilege. Some of us cite our personal struggles and say we're not smug and not privileged. Even so, many of us in the RWA recognize that viewing the world as it is today through the lens of our childhood is to wear blinders. We are open to trying to do the newest "right thing," even when the right thing involves getting out of whatever comfort zone we might have, researching and learning about others, remembering to use different pronouns, and not automatically creating characters who are offensive stereotypes. 

But no, I'm not really down with vampires.
One of the problems in US society in general is the number of people who believe prejudice is no longer a problem. I read an article on 538 not so long ago about discrepancies between gay and straight polling data. A large majority of straight people believe that prejudice against gays is no longer significant. A large majority of gay people report having encountered prejudice, though.

When I used to teach high school, I frequently heard comments during class discussion of works like To Kill a Mockingbird that started something like, "Now that we no longer have racism..." Of course, racism isn't as obvious as it was in TKM, but to think that it doesn't exist at all is unsettling.

Part of the root cause of these disconnects is that some of the barriers have fallen. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of gay marriage. The US elected its first black president. These are big deals. They just aren't all that's happening.

Another cause is the way the entertainment industry sometimes handles the issue, and this part can also be relevant to us as authors. Movies and TV shows have become more inclusive, and that's good. However, inclusion is a tricky thing. You don't want every inclusive show with diverse characters doesn't have to be about the problems those characters face because of their diversity. On the other hand, if none of them are, that pattern feeds the perception that prejudice is over.

Consider the case of the long-running YA horror series, Teen Wolf. (Yes, I'm partly a teenager at heart.) The characters have some racial diversity, and every season has at least one LGBT character, sometimes more. Leaving the constant supernatural incursions aside, the show portrays a world in which prejudice has been conquered. Racism never once rears its head that I can recall. And everybody accepts same-sex relationships entirely without comment. Having taught high school, even in a relatively liberal community, I can tell you things don't run quite that smoothly, particularly when LGBT issues arise. Teenage males have an especially hard time processing some of that, although the situation has improved over the years. Still, it hasn't improved enough to quite equal universal acceptance. Of course, the show is set in a small town environment which you might expect to be less progressive. Instead, this particular small town has not one but two gay clubs, which in the few scenes in which they appear, always seem to be packed. No one watching this show would have any sense that any kind of prejudice exists. In a way, it models good behavior, and I like it for that. But it does also send the message that prejudice doesn't exist any more.

However, the show does address prejudice, but in a symbolic way. Not all creatures like werewolves are evil in this universe. In fact, the main character becomes a werewolf in the very first episode and has to learn how to control himself. He's not the only supernatural who succeeds in finding a way to coexist with ordinary people without hurting them. But people who find out the truth about him or some of his more unusual friends inevitably assume he's evil because of what he is. The last half of the final season is entirely dedicated to a villain who tries to commit what amounts to genocide against anyone who is not a "regular" human. The storyline is clearly a symbolic way of addressing prejudice, though I doubt everybody picked up on that.

That's a long-winded example, but it illustrates my basic point. Emphasizing prejudice too much risks portraying certain groups only as victims while ignoring the other aspects of their lives. Emphasizing prejudice too little (or perhaps too subtly) risks giving people the impression that it no longer exists. That's a dilemma that can face us as writers.


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PaulineMRoss

Re: Interesting article about diversity in Romance
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 05:42:47 AM »
The last half of the final season is entirely dedicated to a villain who tries to commit what amounts to genocide against anyone who is not a "regular" human. The storyline is clearly a symbolic way of addressing prejudice, though I doubt everybody picked up on that.

This is the power of fantasy, and it's even more true of epic fantasy, where all the real-world baggage gets left behind. It's harder in UF, but it's still possible.

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