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81
Bot Discussion Public / Re: SFWA’s Comments
« Last post by PJ Post on November 17, 2023, 03:06:02 AM »
AI still doesn't copy IPs. There is no theft. That's not how it works.

The SFWA has always staunchly supported traditional publishing, especially the old corduroy-sport-coat-with-leather-elbows-and-fruity-pipe-tobacco ways and only accepted Indies once they absolutely had no other choice. They have a bit of a country club mentality, and a rather pretentious one at that. So, of course they're going to rail against AI, they're grasping at straws to remain relevant. I'm sure they'd ban self-publishing altogether if they could.

And AI disclosures don't protect consumers, they protect the self-image of overly-insecure traditional writers. People don't care how stuff is made, where or by whom. And once AI turns the corner on narrative quality, that's it, game over.

As I've said, writers who have something to say with their stories will be fine, they'll be fine way out on the fringes of the market, but fine just the same. For example, Indie musicians still produce albums because that's how their idols used to do it back in the day even though the current market has overwhelmingly shifted back to singles - but those albums are still being sold. The fringes have always provided opportunity.

Human writers and musicians and artists and photographers and sculptors and painters and illustrators and filmographers and crafters will always have a market because other humans recognize their talent. We don't need protection from AI to do what we do, nor to share it with our audiences. It's similar to the precision cobbler, they're still out there, making shoes and serving their market, but the vast majority of shoes are mass-produced under fairly questionable conditions, and yet - no warnings. And it's not a secret. Everyone knows. Nobody cares.

They won't care about AI either.
82
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 17, 2023, 01:42:04 AM »
When I was a girl, my mom bought me a book called The World of Captain John Smith, by Genevieve Foster. It gave basic information about all the major notables and events of the same era from around the globe. She did a series of similar books. No segmentation there. From a review of one:

Foster earned her reputation by her masterful display of "horizontal history"—telling the story of world events in the geo-political sphere, while giving as much importance to advances in science, medicine, music, literature, and exploration.
That's a good example. There are actually a lot of historians who take that approach now. It's fascinating for students of history.
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 17, 2023, 01:39:53 AM »
Ah, mashups! Consider The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, a modern mashup of a huge number of literary works. Too bad it was chronologically incoherent. It had a female vampire, Mina Harker, who got infected trying to destroy Dracula, Mr. Hyde, the invisible man, Dorian Gray, Alan Quartermain, Captain Nemo, and Professor Moriarty as the villain, who is trying to start a World War (somewhat earlier than World War I) and plans to pick up the pieces afterward by creating armies of vampires, invisible men, and Mr. Hydes. It was inspired by a graphic novel and in turn produced a text novel adaptation.

While there are some chronological problems with that particular roster of heroes, the biggest comes from Secret Service Agent Tom Sawyer, who is portrayed as young but would have to have been pushing sixty at the time the story takes place.

But fans of that kind of everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach are unlikely to be that concerned about Tom Sawyer's surprising youthfulness. Though I suppose if they had been, it would have been easy enough to write in the fountain of youth!

 
84
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Vijaya on November 17, 2023, 01:31:18 AM »
LilyBily, I've never heard that term, horizontal history, until now. Love it. Will have to check out Foster's books. Thank you.
85
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on November 16, 2023, 07:03:26 PM »
William Shakespeare was still alive when the British were starting colonies in America.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Venture


Quote
The Wild West in America took place during the latter part of the Victorian era in England.


Bram Stoker's Dracula is actually a cool mashup of both cultures.  If you want to kill an aristocratic vampire in Victorian England, then what better way than with your American cowboy friend with his Bowie knife and some Winchester rifles for the whole hero team?   :cool:
86
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by LilyBLily on November 16, 2023, 11:17:15 AM »
When I was a girl, my mom bought me a book called The World of Captain John Smith, by Genevieve Foster. It gave basic information about all the major notables and events of the same era from around the globe. She did a series of similar books. No segmentation there. From a review of one:

Foster earned her reputation by her masterful display of "horizontal history"—telling the story of world events in the geo-political sphere, while giving as much importance to advances in science, medicine, music, literature, and exploration.
87
Bot Discussion Public / Re: SFWA’s Comments
« Last post by littleauthor on November 16, 2023, 07:36:33 AM »
From the article:

"These systems would not exist without the work of creative people, and certainly would not be capable of some of their more startling successes. However, the researchers who have developed them have not paid due attention to this debt. Everyone else involved in the creation of these systems has been compensated for their contributions—the manufacturers of the hardware on which it runs, the utility companies that generate their electrical power, the owners of their data centers and offices, and of course the researchers themselves. Even where free and open source software is used, it is used according to the licenses under which the software is distributed as a reflection of the legal rights of the programmers. Creative workers alone are expected to provide the fruits of their labor for free, without even the courtesy of being asked for permission. Our rights are treated as a mere externality."

THIS. When I saw a ChatGPT rep in KBoards actively encouraging authors to try out the program - giving them step-by-step instructions in how to train the program - I lost it. Many, many writers are still clueless when it comes to this level of creative theft. Tech bros can't create but they are making money hand over fist off the backs of those of us who can.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: SFWA’s Comments
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 07:18:01 AM »
I couldn't agree more.
89
Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Well, this is proving a waste of time.
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 07:01:35 AM »
I think I had worse luck with Goodreads ads than with any other form of advertising. Now I know why.
90
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 06:59:54 AM »
When I was in school, the segmentation of history was certainly a problem, though I didn't realize it at the time.  You ended up with a disjointed view of history.  That is, you didn't always get an understanding that certain events were occurring simultaneously.

For example, you got the impression that woolly mammoths died out long before man formed civilizations.  It was cave men, grunting and groaning, wearing loin clothes hunting woolly mammoths with pointed sticks, right?  And woolly mammoths were long gone before we started using language and building homes outside of caves.  But, woolly mammoths were still around when the pyramids in Egypt were being built.

Others: Galileo and Isaac Newton seemed like they were ages apart, but they were both born in the same year.  The first vaccine was tested in Napoleon's time.  When beer was invented, the Sahara wasn't a desert yet.  When the crossbow was first used in Europe, the Chinese were already using guns.

William Shakespeare was still alive when the British were starting colonies in America.  Leonardo da Vinci and Christopher Columbus were contemporaries.  Also, the last vestige of the Roman Empire fell less than fifty years before Columbus reached America.  Mozart was composing music when Americans were declaring independence.  The Wild West in America took place during the latter part of the Victorian era in England.

You probably never realized that in school.
Segmentation is a problem. On the other hand, it's difficult to academically connect everything to everything else in the way in the way in which they actually relate.

That said, I did know some of those things. Shakespeare's Tempest makes references to colonization (and some see Caliban as a comment on indigenous peoples, though of course not a very modern one).

But this is why we need to be lifelong learners. There's no possible way in which any one history course, no matter how it was organized, could possibly convey the full reality. One picks up more and more aspects of the full picture over time.
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