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91
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on November 16, 2023, 06:12:12 AM »
Quote from: hungryboson on November 16, 2023, 05:35:28 AM
Galileo Galilei died the same year Isaac Newton was born (1642)

The Internet lied to me on that one because a site had them listed as being both born in 1642.  They were on a list with others like Marilyn Monroe and Queen Elizabeth II who were born the same year (1926).
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by hungryboson on November 16, 2023, 05:35:28 AM »
D,
Galileo Galilei died the same year Isaac Newton was born (1642)
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on November 16, 2023, 02:48:46 AM »
When I was in school, the segmentation of history was certainly a problem, though I didn't realize it at the time.  You ended up with a disjointed view of history.  That is, you didn't always get an understanding that certain events were occurring simultaneously.

For example, you got the impression that woolly mammoths died out long before man formed civilizations.  It was cave men, grunting and groaning, wearing loin clothes hunting woolly mammoths with pointed sticks, right?  And woolly mammoths were long gone before we started using language and building homes outside of caves.  But, woolly mammoths were still around when the pyramids in Egypt were being built.

Others: Galileo and Isaac Newton seemed like they were ages apart, but they were both born in the same year.  The first vaccine was tested in Napoleon's time.  When beer was invented, the Sahara wasn't a desert yet.  When the crossbow was first used in Europe, the Chinese were already using guns.

William Shakespeare was still alive when the British were starting colonies in America.  Leonardo da Vinci and Christopher Columbus were contemporaries.  Also, the last vestige of the Roman Empire fell less than fifty years before Columbus reached America.  Mozart was composing music when Americans were declaring independence.  The Wild West in America took place during the latter part of the Victorian era in England.

You probably never realized that in school.
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Well, this is proving a waste of time.
« Last post by Jan Hurst-Nicholson on November 16, 2023, 02:29:29 AM »
This explains a lot  :icon_rolleyes:

Goodreads reports that its average click-through rate is 0.05%, which means that, if 10,000 people see an author’s ad, an average of five people will click on it.
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Hopscotch on November 16, 2023, 02:20:02 AM »
Quote from: Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 12:34:53 AM
It's only recently that the academic world has started venerating writers who never had a popular following.

Rather think that the academic world venerates writers who appeal to the academic world academically.  But they shouldn't shove that stuff on us.  Unless it's James Joyce's Ulysses - the greatest comic novel in English which, w/all its randomized complexities, Joyce said would keep the lit-acad busy for centuries and has so far.  Making the novel even funnier for the rest of us.
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Bot Discussion Public / SFWA’s Comments
« Last post by APP on November 16, 2023, 02:11:14 AM »
Nicely stated.

Artificial Intelligence and Copyright: SFWA’s Comments to the US Copyright Office
https://writerbeware.blog/2023/11/10/artificial-intelligence-and-copyright-sfwas-comments-to-the-us-copyright-office/
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 12:34:53 AM »
Quote from: Hopscotch on November 15, 2023, 11:38:35 PM
Quote from: Jeff Tanyard on November 15, 2023, 07:13:34 PM
If it's actually an enjoyable read...then that's all the "literary merit" it needs as far as I'm concerned.

Sort of.  True, there’s a read out there for everybody and an everybody for a read.  But merit is something else - merit lies in a book worth your re-reading and that means keeping across a lifetime to read whenever the story calls to you.  A magic beyond an enjoyable read.  Written by indie magicians, of course.
For pleasure reading, we all look for an enjoyable read. To exercise our minds, we might want more than just enjoyment. But, as others have pointed out in this thread, it's quite possible to combine both. Traditional lit-fic is not the only place to find intellectual stimulation.

Shakespeare was a crowd pleaser, but at court and for the groundlings. Charles Dickens was a crowd pleaser. Mark Twain was a crowd pleaser. There are a lot of examples, and at least some of those people wouldn't still be remembered if they hadn't entertained large audiences. It's only recently that the academic world has started venerating writers who never had a popular following. Even some of them actually have some enjoyable works.
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on November 16, 2023, 12:26:17 AM »
Quote from: RiverRun on November 15, 2023, 11:42:18 AM
This is well and truly off topic but this got me thinking about John Taylor Gatto because I read some of his stuff years ago. I think his objection to public school as an institution was partly because he was convinced that segmenting subjects into set periods implied to the students that subjects were isolated and valueless. As in, the bell rang. English is over. We can forget all about it now, therefore it never really mattered. Of course a good teacher works contrary to this, but Gatto believed the institution fostered this. He builds up this argument for quite a while and I'd fail if I tried to summarize it all. But as I recall he was strongly against predigested information like textbooks, and opinionless lectures. He thought kids should spend their time on real books, strong opinions, and see ideas operating in the real world, by pursuing their interests. My own educational theories have developed along different lines. I use a lot of text books myself so I am far from following his suggestions, but he had some thought provoking observations that have stayed with me.
There are a lot of interesting theories in education. Personally, I'm eclectic, taking pieces from a number of different thinkers.

The segmentation of knowledge Gatto talks about could indeed be a problem. That's why there is so much emphasis on initiatives like writing across the curriculum and other interdisciplinary approaches. I've been involved in interdisciplinary, team-taught courses as both a student and a teacher. The academy approach, which involves grouping students based on interest in career pathways and integrating courses accordingly, while still in its infancy, shows promise. In my last year before retirement, I was the AP Language and Comp provider for the medical science academy, which meant pulling in more scientifically oriented non-fiction, among other things. The high school form which I graduated has a performing arts academy, tied to a couple of studios with local campuses.
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Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Hopscotch on November 15, 2023, 11:38:35 PM »
Quote from: Jeff Tanyard on November 15, 2023, 07:13:34 PM
If it's actually an enjoyable read...then that's all the "literary merit" it needs as far as I'm concerned.

Sort of.  True, there’s a read out there for everybody and an everybody for a read.  But merit is something else - merit lies in a book worth your re-reading and that means keeping across a lifetime to read whenever the story calls to you.  A magic beyond an enjoyable read.  Written by indie magicians, of course.
100
Publisher's Office [Public] / Re: Converting serious lit into big business
« Last post by Jeff Tanyard on November 15, 2023, 07:13:34 PM »
Quote from: Crystal on November 15, 2023, 04:51:24 AM
I am sure many would not consider The Hunger Games quality literature (those people can eff off FWIW), but students had a really easy time connecting with the material, and it had plenty of thematic weight.

I think a lot of people would criticize this choice not because THG lacks literary merits. (It has plenty & I will die on that hill). But because it's actually an enjoyable read.


I've never read The Hunger Games, so I can't really comment on it.  If it's actually an enjoyable read, though, as you say, then that's all the "literary merit" it needs as far as I'm concerned.   :shrug  Anything else is a bonus.

In my opinion, any enjoyable book can be discussed thematically and in an intelligent and sophisticated fashion.  Just ask readers why they like it and go from there.  The people discussing the book might actually surprise themselves.
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