Do you HAVE to have a TOC in fiction? (Amazon exclusive)

[The Bass Bagwhan]

I'm interpreting Zon's rules as you are required to have a TOC ... I think. It seems so pointless for an ebook, given that every device or software equivilent keeps track of where you are in the book. While I'm pretty handy with Word and its features (although not a "power user") but creating a TOC in Word does my head in.

Cheers for any thoughts. BB

[TimothyEllis]

It's a requirement.

And it needs to be done with their method, including a bookmark.

This is so the page flip feature works properly. Press the screen, and the entire chapter list pops up.

Why anyone needs this is totally beyond me, but it is a requirement now.

The TOC is easy.

Click auto table 1
Click custom table, select 1 level, unclick show numbers, ok, overwrite yes.
Highlight Contents, click bookmark, type toc.
Save.

Bookmarks isn't part of the normal visible menu, but I added it, and put it next to the TOC dropdown.

Whole thing takes me less than a minute now.

[Bill Hiatt]

While a TOC is pointless in an ebook, it's worth pointing out that it can be useful for readers to interact with each other when some are using an ebook and others are using a paperback. Since the ebook doesn't have page numbers, chapter divisions would be the only common point of reference and thus might facilitate discussion.

[cecilia_writer]

As a reader, the only time I've used a TOC is to find my place again when there's been a Kindle glitch and my device has lost track of where I was in the ebook I was reading.
Incidentally, the automatic TOC in Word doesn't appear to work for the books I upload to Smashwords, and I always have to make a different TOC for them using bookmarks and links, which Amazon in its turn doesn't seem to recognise as a TOC. I think this is an issue that has only come to light in the past few years as I don't remember encountering it earlier.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

It's a requirement.

And it needs to be done with their method, including a bookmark.

This is so the page flip feature works properly. Press the screen, and the entire chapter list pops up.

Why anyone needs this is totally beyond me, but it is a requirement now.

The TOC is easy.

Click auto table 1
Click custom table, select 1 level, unclick show numbers, ok, overwrite yes.
Highlight Contents, click bookmark, type toc.
Save.

Bookmarks isn't part of the normal visible menu, but I added it, and put it next to the TOC dropdown.

Whole thing takes me less than a minute now.

Thanks Tim, but are you using Styles and the various Headings it has for chapter breaks, etc? My problem becomes weeding out all the added TOC content, and working within the TOC ( which I guess is a form of Table) gets a little hinky.  I get it done eventually, but not within minutes.
But you've explained why ebooks need one, so now I get it. Cheers!

[TimothyEllis]

Thanks Tim, but are you using Styles and the various Headings it has for chapter breaks, etc? My problem becomes weeding out all the added TOC content, and working within the TOC ( which I guess is a form of Table) gets a little hinky.  I get it done eventually, but not within minutes.
But you've explained why ebooks need one, so now I get it. Cheers!

Heading 1 styles, yes.

I have done 1 non-fiction book with 3 levels of headings, and as long as you use the 3 different heading styles, it assembles the ToC just fine. The problem is, KDP doesn't handle 3 deep at all properly.

What do you mean by 'added TOC content'?

What is there to add? Headings is all one needs in the ToC.

[Bill Hiatt]

If you have a Mac (or easy access to one), Vellum handles all the TOC stuff automatically. If an author is wide, it's also a blessing because it can automatically generate the correct format with the correct specifications for all the major vendors. It not even gives you an Amazon-configured epub to upload to the store and a mobi for people if you want to give one to someone (as an ARC, for example) or if you are wide and want to sell from your site. It also does a good paperback interior in a fraction of the time it would take me.

(Like many of you, I'd rather have a PC alternative. There was a company that was developing one. I signed up for news. That was months ago, and I've heard nothing.

I've never used Kindle Create. From the information provided, I assume it would do TOC automatically, and it's available for both PC and Mac. However, it doesn't support any platform other than its own, which means it wouldn't be of as useful for wide authors. Bizarrely, even though KDP now also handles print editions, Kindle Create still only does ebooks. So it's adequate for an author who is only interested in Amazon ebooks but doesn't handle anything beyond that. Sigh!

[Bill Hiatt]

I forgot, D2D also has services to handle formatting and conversion, and it includes both wide and paperback editions. Since I've never used it, I can't really compare it to Vellum in terms of how well it might do.

[TimothyEllis]

I forgot, D2D also has services to handle formatting and conversion, and it includes both wide and paperback editions. Since I've never used it, I can't really compare it to Vellum in terms of how well it might do.

I use that for paperback formatting.

But I don't do ToC for paperbacks except for bundles. For some unknown reason, they put the ToC before the front matter, and it looks weird.

[Post-Crisis D]

If you have a Mac (or easy access to one), Vellum handles all the TOC stuff automatically. If an author is wide, it's also a blessing because it can automatically generate the correct format with the correct specifications for all the major vendors. It not even gives you an Amazon-configured epub to upload to the store and a mobi for people if you want to give one to someone (as an ARC, for example) or if you are wide and want to sell from your site. It also does a good paperback interior in a fraction of the time it would take me.

Be careful if you are using Vellum to create a .mobi file.  Older versions of Vellum used KindleGen to generate the .mobi file and the terms of use for KindleGen did not permit you to use it to create .mobi files for sale outside of Amazon.

Newer versions of Vellum use Kindle Create to generate the .mobi file. I have not checked the terms of use for Kindle Create but I would not be surprised if they are the same as for KindleGen given that both are from Amazon.

[Bill Hiatt]

It's always good to be cautious. Interestingly, when I search for "Kindle Create Terms and Conditions," I get nothing. "Requirements and Supported Features" says that publishing on other platforms is not supported (in the same way that cover formatting is not supported). That's different from saying it's prohibited.

I'm not wide anyway, but in the interest of caution, I'd avoid selling those mobi files on my website if I were. No other vendor sells mobi files, anyway, so it wouldn't otherwise be relevant.

[Post-Crisis D]

It's always good to be cautious. Interestingly, when I search for "Kindle Create Terms and Conditions," I get nothing. "Requirements and Supported Features" says that publishing on other platforms is not supported (in the same way that cover formatting is not supported). That's different from saying it's prohibited.

You probably have to read through the License Agreement you have to agree to before installing.  I haven't installed it [Kindle Create] so I can't check.

I only remember that on KindleGen, it was clear in the terms that you could use it to generate .mobi files for sale on Amazon as well as .mobi files for free distribution from your website or to your list or wherever, but you weren't allowed to use it to create .mobi files for sale outside of Amazon.

[Bill Hiatt]

That makes sense. Since I won't be selling on my website, I needn't worry. But it's a good point to make here, in case somebody else is wondering.