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Bot Discussion Public / Maniacal Visions
« Last post by Vijaya on June 24, 2024, 06:21:13 AM »
My son wrote a piece for the Plough about AI: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/life/technology/maniacal-visions
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: ChatGPT is recommending novel pricing.
« Last post by baldricko on June 20, 2024, 02:43:59 PM »
The relevance and usefulness of the answer you get really depends on the question you ask GPT. In other words how adept you are with prompts. It also depends on the capability of the model used. GPT4o might give a useful answer.

For example, If you asked that question of GPT3.5 you would not get a reliable answer. Not only does it have no access to the internet to research the current situation, the data it was trained with is now quite irrelevant. It is also not up the task in terms of 'smarts'.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on June 20, 2024, 06:45:21 AM »
I'm fascinated by the fact that your GW didn't want credit.

Ghostwriting is essentially giving up all rights to your work and that means putting it out of your control.

It could be as simple as not wanting to compete with yourself.  If someone pays you to write a book for them where they will own all the rights, if your name is on it, that book will come up in searches on your name.  If someone buys that book, you get nothing because you already got paid.  Maybe the person that bought it is an exceptional marketer, so 9 out of 10 Bill Hiatt books sold are that one you wrote for him.  So, 9 out of 10 times, you're missing out on a book sale.

Or, if you write about children's books and someone pays you to write a book that would be inappropriate for children, you probably wouldn't want to risk your readers buying that book by mistake.

Or, let's say you wrote a book for a celebrity but, instead of ghostwriting it, you insisted on at least being credited as a co-writer.  And then let's say the celebrity goes off the deep-end and does something horrific.  You might not want to be forever associated with that person even if you had, and especially if you had, nothing to do with the horrific thing they did.

Or, let's say you wrote an article about the history of mince pie and how to prepare it.  And it's to be published under your name.  And let's say the buyer puts it on a website catering to cannibals and they also have instructions on how to render suet from children to use in mince pie.  You probably would not want to be associated with that.

Plenty of reasons a ghostwriter might not want their name attached to something they wrote.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on June 20, 2024, 06:06:17 AM »
The discussions here are always interested.

I think I'll continue to go with theft as a description, though I understand what you're saying. We agree on the unethical nature of the situation and disagree only in the way we characterize it.

It sounds as if we also agree on ghostwriting. I'm fascinated by the fact that your GW didn't want credit. But that's because my own ego would keep me out of that kind of arrangement. Your point--that the arrangement was mutually agreeable--is well taken.

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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Jan Hurst-Nicholson on June 20, 2024, 06:01:02 AM »
I've no idea how to use AI so I haven't tried it. But knowing that trad publisher's use blurb writers to write their blurbs (very grateful that I didn't have to write them for my own trad published books :icon_rolleyes:) and learning how difficult it is, I wouldn't consider it 'cheating' to use AI for blurb writing. But I'm not sure how comfortable I would be using it to write the actual book. However, if I did know how to use it I might be tempted when struggling with descriptions of scenery, which I hate writing, and like a crossword puzzle, when after struggling I finally give up and look up the answer I might be tempted to try AI.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by LilyBLily on June 20, 2024, 05:59:00 AM »
Well, it is Juneteenth today.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on June 20, 2024, 04:37:04 AM »
I think a lot of people wouldn't want slavery used because stretching the definition too far causes the word to lose some of its impact.

The flip side of that is that we don't want to make slavery or forms of slavery acceptable by redefining it as something else.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Post-Crisis D on June 20, 2024, 04:35:17 AM »
I believe ghostwriting is an accepted practice because it is compensated work.  I've done ghostwriting and I've also hired ghostwriters.  Everyone knows what they're getting into and agrees to the terms.

Also, for the record, material I have hired ghostwriters for was released under a pseudonym.  And I think maybe I only ever hired one ghostwriter.  At least, I can only think of one at the moment.  In that case, too, I wasn't looking specifically for a ghostwriter but for a writer but she was used to doing things as a ghostwriter so we worked it out where I would use her work under a specific pseudonym that was just for her.  And, by work it out, I mean, I said this is what I'm going to do and is that okay with you?  And she was like yes.  If she had wanted credit under her own name that would have been fine by me but she didn't want that.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on June 20, 2024, 04:24:38 AM »
Not compensating people for their work is pretty harsh.

Not compensating people for their work and using their work to help create additional works for financial gain is even harsher.

Not compensating people for their work and using their work to help create additional works for financial gain and that compete with and reduce the market value of their work is really harsh.

If using someone's labor without their permission and without compensating them for their work is not a form of slavery, then can it be described as theft?
Theft is a more applicable term.

I think a lot of people wouldn't want slavery used because stretching the definition too far causes the word to lose some of its impact. Jewish people have been complaining for a long time that comparing every political thing we don't like to Nazi Germany reduces the impact of the Holocaust, trivializing it.

I can see that point when I look at contemporary America. Without take sides on any of the issues, if we take all the statements being made at face value, every political figure is either a socialist or a facist--or perhaps both. In a decade, such terms will have lost most of their original meaning because they've been applied to too many things.
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Bot Discussion Public / Re: Writer out to stop the 'bot' drivel
« Last post by Bill Hiatt on June 20, 2024, 04:19:48 AM »
If I take a partial line from one book, a partial line from another, a bit from a third, a phrase from a fourth, a partial line from yet another book, and so on, and I combine those together and package them into a new book and call it my own, am I an author or a sophisticated plagiarist?

If I use a software program to do the same for me and I just edit and polish it up a bit, does that change things  because I am not personally cutting and pasting from the books?
These are both excellent questions.

I would say the editing and polishing would have to be considerable before one could call it one's own.

That said, we could raise the same question about ghost writers, and that's an acceptable practice. Cutting and pasting from the works of others would be theoretically acceptable if you had licensed the content appropriately. That brings us back to the nature of the training method, a point on which we agree.

The reason I don't use ghostwriters, despite all the rapid release pressure, is that I'm in writing to write. If I didn't want to write, I would be doing something else with time, not hiring a ghostwriter to write for me. If I really needed help, I might work with someone and have a collaborator rather than a ghostwriter.
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