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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Checking again...
« Last post by idontknowyet on Today at 08:25:31 AM »
I've actually heard the opposite about booktok. Authors selling dozens of books from a single tik tok post. But that's about developing an audience and it might be genre specific. Sweet romance and steamy romance do well there.
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Marketing Loft [Public] / Re: Checking again...
« Last post by Crystal on Today at 07:35:01 AM »
As a native California, I have to say, we welcome avocado at all times, in all places, including Super Bowl parties. Granted, I'm not a football fan, but I've seen avocado welcomed in much stranger contexts. Guacamole is 90% avocados (also lime, cilantro, onion, salt and sometimes tomato or jalapeno), and surely no one would be upset to see guac and chips at a Super Bowl party? Avocado toast is really not that different.

Luke, it's usually considered "bad form" to offer unsolicited criticism of another member's stuff
Books and TikTok mixes about as well as arugula salad and avocado toast...

I can honestly say I've never eaten either of those things, nor would I want to. 

You should try them.

Avocado toast is great. It's just an bunch of avocado mashed on toasted bread, sometimes with other toppings. Who doesn't like that? I guess people who don't like avocados, but if you enjoy avocado on your sandwiches, you'll probably like avocado toast (or avocado sandwiches, as my mom used to eat, way before avocado toast was cool).

Arugula is peppery and delicious. Way more exciting than iceberg lettuce or mixed greens, but not for everyone.
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While not epic fantasy, one of my favorite examples is The Quiet Man.  A powerful man (yes, physical power) but a powerful boxer, who accidentally kills a man in the ring then returns to Ireland.  After that, he refuses to fight again and most people don't know why.  They think he's a coward until he finally has to face that fear.


Heh. I developed a thing for Maureen O'Hara and redheads in general after watching this as an impressionable teen  grint
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i think both could work you just need to give them flaws to over come. strength and too much confidence/winning can be a huge flaw in itself.
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My parents have a collection of John Wayne movies. Always did like that one. But I like a certain type of antagonistic romance where strong personalities clash and it definitely fit that bill. :D
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I've read some discussions about making a MC an underdog, as it gives the character a longer path to grow and change and also helps readers to connect with MC better. Yet I see many succsessful series where MC is quite powerful from the beginning.
Does it mean that readers have no problems connecting with powerful characters? What do you think? And which type of MC do you prefer as readers and authors and why?

I prefer a MC with some abilities...but that may not be helping them much at first.  Either they don't know they have them or don't know how to use them.  Or they've used them in a way that hurt someone and now have to live with the consequences.

While not epic fantasy, one of my favorite examples is The Quiet Man.  A powerful man (yes, physical power) but a powerful boxer, who accidentally kills a man in the ring then returns to Ireland.  After that, he refuses to fight again and most people don't know why.  They think he's a coward until he finally has to face that fear.

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Endlessly debatable, I suppose, but she's on the usual hero's quest for a lost or killed parent (either to find the parent or avenge the parent). And the sudden discovery of powers never known before is pretty typical.

Powers are one thing. Almost effortlessly using them like a master just makes a mary-sue.

Luke was repeatedly hit by training bolts before he used the force to deflect his first ones. Rey picked up a lightsaber and fought like a master in her first fight.

The fact Luke was already a good pilot was lost from the movie, but was in the book, and even in the movie, he talks about hitting a small target in a fighter when they talk about the port they need to hit. So there was history there for him to be a good pilot.

Rey has never flown a ship before in her life, and then suddenly she's able to fly the Falcon, one of the most difficult ships to fly? Then she repairs it better than Han does, with no experience of starship repair?

People don't so much hate Rey, but everything she did was built on the 3rtd movie revelation of who she was related to.

Whereas Luke did all the training across 2 movies, and made all the mistakes to earn the 4rd movie. Rey did nothing to justify what she did in the first movie, let alone the 3rd.

Rey is the poster-girl for Mary-Sue. Luke was the poster-boy for the heroes journey.
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I find the first part of the first Stars Wars unwatchable. Guy can't act his way out of a paper bag. (Hamill does learn later, but he can't carry a scene on his own, talking.) Didn't know I was supposed to despise Rey. I thought that movie was a lot of hooey compared to the character situations and development in the first three produced, but I didn't dislike her, probably because she's not sure of herself and she appears more or less friendless at first, and thus an underdog. Endlessly debatable, I suppose, but she's on the usual hero's quest for a lost or killed parent (either to find the parent or avenge the parent). And the sudden discovery of powers never known before is pretty typical.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: An underdog or a powerful hero in fantasy
« Last post by PJ Post on December 03, 2021, 11:26:48 PM »
Whatever the power is, it must be earned - note that developing the power counts, i.e. Spiderman. The key to many good stories is found within this personal struggle to overcome - that's the character arc.

But it depends on the kind of story you want to write. For example, while we get hints and retellings of how they came to be who they are (earning via flashback), James Bond, Dirk Pitt and Jack Reacher all begin their respective stories completely leveled up. The reader is in on the 'joke' as they square off against bad guys who have no clue how badass (physically, intellectually or both) these heroes are - until the final boss-battle.

These characters work well in a series of standalone stories, like the NUMA files or Sherlock Holmes. But if the story is going to be a serial, that is, a single story told over multiple books, then the character needs to earn it every step of the way. Their failings humanize them, which makes them more engaging. This is why fans love Luke but generally despise Rey. The first thing Luke does is lose R2 which gets his Aunt and Uncle killed - total fail. The first thing Rey does is fly/fight/repair/engineer the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo, a ship she's never been on before - an effortless consequence-free win.
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Quill and Feather Pub [Public] / Re: An underdog or a powerful hero in fantasy
« Last post by notthatamanda on December 03, 2021, 09:32:41 PM »
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