Author Topic: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?  (Read 4715 times)

LilyBLily

A decade ago, it used to be said with assurance that an indie-published book would sell, on average, 125 copies. After that number of sales, the poor benighted author would have run out of friends and relatives and also become exhausted by the uphill struggle to get anyone else interested. And would have a garage full of unsold print copies. Usually, 4,875 of them.

This week I saw someone post on another board that the number today is 250 copies. I immediately pulled my Book Report all-time record and looked. Sure enough, the books I've admitted to myself are never going to sell well are all below the 250 mark. Book Report doesn't have every stat, though; it underreports my CreateSpace sales of the past.

Some of my passion project titles are very much lower than 250 sales. I even have an ebook box set that has only sold one copy. 

On the other hand, I have titles that have sold thousands of copies and/or had thousands of KU reads.

Is 250 the right number for today? Or is the average number higher or lower? The "failure number," as it were. 

   
 

idontknowyet

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 11:31:28 PM »
The numbers I heard were less than a cup of coffee. Though not scientific, it does seem to fit. If you never get any visibility you cant sell anything. Releasing a book in the void of amazon doesn't give you any visibility anymore.
 

DrewMcGunn

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 11:56:32 PM »
The 250 copies is what I've seen. But after doing some googling, I think the number is more than a decade old and was originally referencing print copies of non-fiction. So, to use it as a metric for us may not be very accurate. I'm a bit of a data  :nerd: and if someone has a link to data that focuses on the indie fiction market, I'd definitely be interested in it.

Speaking antidotally anecdotally, given how many people posted over on the Other Forum about getting enough visibility to sell even a few copies, I can certainly see how the average number of sales for an ebook might be 250 or even less. There are a handful of whales and Krakens hitting home runs (how's that for mixing metaphors?). Quite a few more sell a few thousand copies. Then there's everyone else trying to figure out how to get someone other than friends and family to buy their books.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 03:22:28 AM by DrewMcGunn »


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Post-Crisis D

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2019, 01:20:19 AM »
Is 250 the right number for today? Or is the average number higher or lower? The "failure number," as it were.

125?  250?  Time to change my username.  :icon_cry:
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TimothyEllis

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Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2019, 01:27:27 AM »
Is 250 the right number for today? Or is the average number higher or lower? The "failure number," as it were.

125?  250?  Time to change my username.  :icon_cry:

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Eric Thomson

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2019, 01:41:03 AM »
Funnily enough, my sole non-fiction sold 208 ebook and 135 print copies since it came out 4.5 years ago.
My fiction on the other hand.... grint
 

Maggie Ann

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2019, 01:57:25 AM »
My first book (ten years old in May) has sold 1600 copies but it's now on permafree. PB sales are 58. Koll borrows 27. And at a guess since I don't remember what the KENP count was, has been read approximately 300 times.

My second book came out approx a year later. Sales, 746; PB, 27; KOLL, 3; KENP, 100. Again, the KU reads are approximate.

I have too many other books to check them all, but I think those figures are okay. I've been able to keep both books going for quite some time so I'll give myself a tiny little pat on the back for that.  :littleclap

           
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2019, 02:57:15 AM »
The average could be as high as 250 if one includes the whales and krakens (whose baseball games will haunt my nightmares from now on). Keeping in mind the long tail that includes most self pubbers, I doubt the average release would sell that many if we exclude the high-selling outliers.

I don't think measuring using our own experiences is necessarily going to be valid. Keep in mind that there are a lot of self pubbers who have no clue what they're doing. In the beginning, that was me. I didn't know how to promote, and, after an initial flurry of 28 sales from people I knew, I descended to 2 to 6 sales per month--and this was back when visibility was a lot easier. At that rate, it would have take me over 63 months (5.25 years) to hit 250 copies on that first book. Many people would get discouraged and give up before then. Also, a book selling that slowly would become less and less visible, so the likelihood is the actual point at which the book hit 250 would be much later than that.

I was estimating the other day and realized I'd sold somewhat more than 10,000 copies of all my ebooks together (depending on how one counts full-read equivalents). Not counting the shorts, which typically don't sell much, I have 11 full-length books, which would be an average of about 909 copies per book. Of course, the sales aren't distributed evenly. Series starters sell more, and one book in particular accounts for a disproportionately high number, so at least some of those books individually are probably below 250.  On the other hand, the figures don't include audio and paper, so they're actually a little lower than the reality. However, the reason I ended up doing better than my earliest experiences would have indicated is that I figured out what I was doing, at least to some extent.

I suspect that there are a lot of people who don't. If they don't, they probably don't find WS or the other place, so they aren't posting here or there. I used to see a lot more people on the KDP forum and other places who didn't know what they were doing--to a frighteningly large degree. I vividly remember one author who was wondering why his poetry collection wasn't selling. If you're tempted to say, "Because it was a poetry collection," that's just the tip of the iceberg. It was, if I recall correctly, $6.99 for fifteen poems, and it was a collection of Christmas haikus. How's that for writing to market? Just the thing for sitting next to the fireplace and waiting for your peppermint chop suey to finish cooking.  Then there was the cover, which was shaped like a post card.

That's only one example. I saw dozens like that. Most lacked appropriate editing, formatting, and cover design. Most were too short for the price point. Most had odd blurbs. A few were barely recognizable as English.  Do we think books like that sell 250 copies? I doubt it. And even a much better book with no advertising would probably still sink to the bottom before it reached that point.

There's no way to know exactly how many self published books are doomed because the authors either don't know how to produce a commercially viable book and/or don't know how to market it. But I would guess it's high enough to make me question 250 as an average.


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Jeff Tanyard

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2019, 04:41:04 AM »
I have no idea what the "failure number" is, but I would think "median" would be a more useful metric than "average" for data of this sort.
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123mlh

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 05:59:42 AM »
I had heard 200 for the average trade pubbed novel's sales, but no idea where I picked that up or how valid it was. My personal average is 238 across 132 titles, but there's a wide variety of actual numbers there with the top five averaging about 3,000 copies each.
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2019, 01:03:08 AM »
I had heard 200 for the average trade pubbed novel's sales, but no idea where I picked that up or how valid it was. My personal average is 238 across 132 titles, but there's a wide variety of actual numbers there with the top five averaging about 3,000 copies each.
132 titles? That's quite a catalog! Of course, it may also make you an outlier. I don't know how many titles the average indie author has, but I bet it's less than that. Since more books tend to mean more visibility, it's likely your average is above the average for indie authors in general, though of course, I'm just speculating.


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123mlh

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2019, 01:33:06 AM »
I had heard 200 for the average trade pubbed novel's sales, but no idea where I picked that up or how valid it was. My personal average is 238 across 132 titles, but there's a wide variety of actual numbers there with the top five averaging about 3,000 copies each.
132 titles? That's quite a catalog! Of course, it may also make you an outlier. I don't know how many titles the average indie author has, but I bet it's less than that. Since more books tend to mean more visibility, it's likely your average is above the average for indie authors in general, though of course, I'm just speculating.

I'd think it's pretty generally representative because I have lots of pen names and a lot of the lower-selling ones were shorter works.
 

cecilia_writer

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2019, 01:38:33 AM »
I hadn't added it up for a while but I see I've sold over 45,000 ebooks, not counting a couple of years' worth of non-Amazon sales that I haven't kept track of. But I've been doing this for a while and now have more than 25 books out there (again I've lost count). I am still a complete shrimp compared to others but it's amazing how they add up over time.
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LilyBLily

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2019, 11:51:35 AM »
I hadn't added it up for a while but I see I've sold over 45,000 ebooks, not counting a couple of years' worth of non-Amazon sales that I haven't kept track of. But I've been doing this for a while and now have more than 25 books out there (again I've lost count). I am still a complete shrimp compared to others but it's amazing how they add up over time.

My bold.

That's the plan. Lots of books, each earning something each month (except the duds). I'm able to pay some bills with the profit over the ad costs. Nowhere near my mortgage, but a decent piece of change that allows me to be rather casual about my monthly personal spending and gives me a budget to apply to new releases and ads. That's freedom.
 
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bardsandsages

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 03:48:47 AM »
In the ebook era, volume of sales is kind of pointless to discuss anyway. Do books that are permafree "count" as sales? Is selling 10,000 copies at 99 cents really "better" than selling 1000 copies at $4.99? How do you could pageviews for Select? What about copies borrowed from libraries?

That said....

I can't find the link now, but the last approximation I saw was something around 500, and it was extrapolated from some Amazon news reports (because Amazon doesn't willingly share data...but you can sometimes make guesses it you connect the dots). If I recall, it was from one article where Amazon was tooting its horn about the number of publishers it had in KDP, and then another article about the total number of ebooks sold. Someone did the math, removing the "known" sales volume from the big Five, and then divided what was left by the number of publishers Amazon said it had. The result was around 500 ebooks per publisher.

That was PER PUBLISHER, not per book. So if a publisher using KDP had ten titles the math didn't work. And I don't think they took out the Amazon imprints, so you would have to adjust for them as well.

I personally think 500 is a good number to use for planning purposes if you are just starting out. Assume that is how many books you will sell. The reason I think that is a good number is that it will keep you out of trouble. If you use an inflated number as your business plan, it is easy to get taken by con artists, or to overpay for things you don't need to overpay for. I'm a big fan of conservative estimates to keep you out of trouble.

At the end of the day, publishing is a business. Just because anyone with a KDP account can upload a file doesn't mean this is a cakewalk. It is HARD to make a profit running a business...doesn't matter if you are selling pizza or selling books.
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Tom Wood

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 05:18:16 AM »
This reminds me of a quote about averages:

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
 
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VanessaC

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2019, 09:53:59 PM »
A decade ago, it used to be said with assurance that an indie-published book would sell, on average, 125 copies. After that number of sales, the poor benighted author would have run out of friends and relatives

Am I the only confirmed introvert here who is wondering how many people actually know 125 other human beings that can be persuaded to buy their books? 

I think (I could be wrong) that my friends and family purchases have accounted for, perhaps, four copies of each of my books so far. Which I'm pretty happy with, to be fair - they could all have stopped at book 1.  Grin

Of course, very few people I know in real life know that I write, let alone my pen name, so there's that.  But still, I am sure I don't personally know 125 people willing to buy my books. (Where's a "mind blown" emoji when you need one?!)
     



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LilyBLily

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2019, 10:28:37 PM »
No one in my family has bought one of my books, but I have a very small family, and our interests don't align. Regardless, the only relative who ever did read my books--and quite faithfully--recently died, so that's that. And I have exactly two friends who buy and read my books regularly.

That 125 figure was a number I heard often in the aughts.
 
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cecilia_writer

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2019, 02:41:39 AM »
My two sons have bought and read some of my books, and two very good friends have managed to get through all of them. Fortunately in all these cases they didn't tell me until after they had read about 10 of my books so I didn't have to worry about whether they liked them! Since then I've been able to have really interesting discussions about the books with all of them. I met one of the friends for lunch just before Christmas and we made a kind of map on the table using cutlery and crockery, for the fictitious town many of my mysteries are set in.
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JRTomlin

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 09:31:22 AM »
I have honestly never added it up. I can tell you that I have four titles that sold more than 250 last month and all of my titles have sold more than that this calendar year. That does not make me one of the 'big hitters' by a long shot and it does make me question that figure.
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 06:34:00 AM »
I have honestly never added it up. I can tell you that I have four titles that sold more than 250 last month and all of my titles have sold more than that this calendar year. That does not make me one of the 'big hitters' by a long shot and it does make me question that figure.
Well, better than I did last month!

I keep coming back to the long tail on self publishing--the huge mass of authors who sell a handful of copies, and that's it. It's hard to get to 250 (or even 125) on just the basis of friends. I could easily see that long tail making the average far lower than 250. Of course, there are people on the other end of spectrum who probably move that many or more in a day. It's too bad we don't have real figures.


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TinkSaid

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2019, 07:59:10 PM »
And I have exactly two friends who buy and read my books regularly.


That's double the number of my friends :)

One relative beta read a couple of chapters of one book -only because he was in hospital at the time.
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Maggie Ann

Re: What is the current canard about how few copies an indie book sells?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2019, 01:09:16 AM »
I find that friends and family are only interested in free books.