Author Topic: Free vs paid  (Read 5015 times)

Marti Talbott

Free vs paid
« on: November 06, 2019, 12:53:45 AM »
Indie authors have been having this same discussion for years, but free still works for me. This morning, all four of my free books are in the top 100 Scottish Historical Romance list. While I certainly don't have runaway sales, it's the kind of exposure that if free for me and certainly helps. Of course, with 50 titles over ten years, I can afford to use free books to attract new readers. Many authors can't.

What I've noticed is that ten years of giving away "The Viking" keeps it in the top 100 in that category, so I can only assume Amazon's ranking is not just based on today's sales, but collective sales over time.

Am I wrong?

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Kindle-Store-Scottish-Historical-Romance/zgbs/digital-text/6361467011/ref=zg_bs?_encoding=UTF8&tf=1
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 01:01:38 AM »
When Kobo did their "Whole Series On Sale Promo" I decided to try to get into it.  I made my two permafrees paid and waited for the promo to come around again.  A couple of months I waited.  They didn't do the promo again, and I lost a ton of money.  The permafrees "sell" themselves, without promos, and I get people who like them enough to read books 2 and 3 of each trilogy.  If people like the trilogy enough to buy some of my standalones, great, if not, no problem.  But I won't change my permafrees back to paid unless I'm forced to by the sales channels.

YMMV, am prawn, etc, etc, and so forth.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 02:01:40 AM »
For 7 years my strategy was perma-free first in series, and charge for the rest. (I don't believe I've ever run a sale on books 2 and up in any series, aside from one bookbub on an omnibus.)

I was in the top 10 or so in a couple of categories with my freebies, and I've averaged about 120 downloads per day for the past 12 months. (I excluded a BB month and the one after from these figures, since those were more like 1000 per day averaged over 60 days.)

The sellthrough is terrible though, and judging by the sporadic new reviews for the permafrees I'd suggest most of those freebies were never looked at again after the day they were downloaded.  That's nothing unusual for perma-frees.

It's still a cheap way to gain exposure and attract new readers, but honestly, for any kind of series I'd have to say KU is worth considering. For KU subscribers all Select books are effectively free, so you WILL earn from every 'series starter' download - unless they return it unopened.



 

Marti Talbott

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 02:10:45 AM »
When Kobo did their "Whole Series On Sale Promo" I decided to try to get into it.  I made my two permafrees paid and waited for the promo to come around again.  A couple of months I waited.  They didn't do the promo again, and I lost a ton of money.  The permafrees "sell" themselves, without promos, and I get people who like them enough to read books 2 and 3 of each trilogy.  If people like the trilogy enough to buy some of my standalones, great, if not, no problem.  But I won't change my permafrees back to paid unless I'm forced to by the sales channels.

YMMV, am prawn, etc, etc, and so forth.

Kobo sort of went down hill after Dan Wood went to work for D2D instead.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 02:24:31 AM »
I emailed them about a promo idea and they got back to me right away but said their promo person was out on leave for a while. 

I do agree Simon that read through is better if people buy the first book, but I couldn't get people to do that.  Free promos drove the KU reads on books one in my trilogies, even when it was only 5 days a quarter. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 02:37:08 AM by notthatamanda »
 
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Sailor Stone

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 06:35:51 AM »
When Kobo did their "Whole Series On Sale Promo" I decided to try to get into it.  I made my two permafrees paid and waited for the promo to come around again.  A couple of months I waited.  They didn't do the promo again, and I lost a ton of money.  The permafrees "sell" themselves, without promos, and I get people who like them enough to read books 2 and 3 of each trilogy.  If people like the trilogy enough to buy some of my standalones, great, if not, no problem.  But I won't change my permafrees back to paid unless I'm forced to by the sales channels.

YMMV, am prawn, etc, etc, and so forth.

Kobo sort of went down hill after Dan Wood went to work for D2D instead.


What is this? Could you explain it a bit more? I used to do fair pretty well at Kobo until a few months ago and I've never been able to figure out what had changed (for me) there to make it grind to a near halt.
 

alhawke

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 06:47:25 AM »
What about a short burst of free as a promotion for a sequel? Have you guys done that?

I have a sequel coming out and I was considering making the 1st book free for 1week, not permafree. I've never done free before, thinking that most people are more willing to review and read if they pay 1$. I don't know. My other option would be to just pair a 1$ promo again.

For me, I'm new as an author publishing for less than 1 year.
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 07:49:55 AM »
When Kobo did their "Whole Series On Sale Promo" I decided to try to get into it.  I made my two permafrees paid and waited for the promo to come around again.  A couple of months I waited.  They didn't do the promo again, and I lost a ton of money.  The permafrees "sell" themselves, without promos, and I get people who like them enough to read books 2 and 3 of each trilogy.  If people like the trilogy enough to buy some of my standalones, great, if not, no problem.  But I won't change my permafrees back to paid unless I'm forced to by the sales channels.

YMMV, am prawn, etc, etc, and so forth.

Kobo sort of went down hill after Dan Wood went to work for D2D instead.


What is this? Could you explain it a bit more? I used to do fair pretty well at Kobo until a few months ago and I've never been able to figure out what had changed (for me) there to make it grind to a near halt.

I'm not sure I can exactly explain what happened, my memory is not great. When I first published on Kobo, Dan posted on kboards a lot, answering questions and getting Kobo off the ground. He started a 1st in a series promotion for Indie authors. That eventually disappeared and never came back. It wasn't until recently that I made the connection between Dan at Kobo and Dan at D2D. He's one of the really great guys, always willing to answer questions and helping us find new promotion ideas. Even if you don't use their service, there is a lot to learn on their blog - Draft2Digital.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 07:53:32 AM »
What about a short burst of free as a promotion for a sequel? Have you guys done that?

I have a sequel coming out and I was considering making the 1st book free for 1week, not permafree. I've never done free before, thinking that most people are more willing to review and read if they pay 1$. I don't know. My other option would be to just pair a 1$ promo again.

For me, I'm new as an author publishing for less than 1 year.

Free is an excellent way to get your name out there and you can make the time period as short or as long as you like.  Somewhere in the world of Amazon there is a list of recently discounted books. To be honest, I haven't looked for it, but from the way my free books start immediately getting downloaded, there must be one somewhere.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 
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cecilia_writer

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 08:01:49 AM »
Having had my first and 6th books in a very long series free for quite a while, I randomly chose another one to make free (I think it may be the 12th) and I've been quite favourably surprised by the results - it has had around 2,000 downloads over a fairly short number of weeks, and also there seem to be people working their way right through the series again, something that had fallen off a bit recently. Of course this could only work for a ridiculously long series (19 books so far). They are sort of semi-standalone mysteries that aren't quite cosy.
Cecilia Peartree - Woman of Mystery
 

notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 08:08:45 AM »
When Kobo did their "Whole Series On Sale Promo" I decided to try to get into it.  I made my two permafrees paid and waited for the promo to come around again.  A couple of months I waited.  They didn't do the promo again, and I lost a ton of money.  The permafrees "sell" themselves, without promos, and I get people who like them enough to read books 2 and 3 of each trilogy.  If people like the trilogy enough to buy some of my standalones, great, if not, no problem.  But I won't change my permafrees back to paid unless I'm forced to by the sales channels.

YMMV, am prawn, etc, etc, and so forth.


Kobo sort of went down hill after Dan Wood went to work for D2D instead.


What is this? Could you explain it a bit more? I used to do fair pretty well at Kobo until a few months ago and I've never been able to figure out what had changed (for me) there to make it grind to a near halt.
I did great the first six months of Kobo and since then it's been pretty dismal.  That was before your time, so I don't know that anything changed recently, but I could be wrong.  I don't know if anyone has a clue how visibility works at Kobo, if so, please enlighten me.  I haven't sold a copy of my newest book there and it was released over a month ago.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 08:12:34 AM »
What about a short burst of free as a promotion for a sequel? Have you guys done that?

I have a sequel coming out and I was considering making the 1st book free for 1week, not permafree. I've never done free before, thinking that most people are more willing to review and read if they pay 1$. I don't know. My other option would be to just pair a 1$ promo again.

For me, I'm new as an author publishing for less than 1 year.

I wouldn't count on reviews, but it seems more likely that if people buy a book, they will read it, even it they only spend a dollar.  Free books may never be read, however, I always got buys and KU reads on books 2 and 3 in my trilogies in the summer, when my last promo on book one was in May, so people do get to the free books on their device sometimes, there is just no guarantee of it.
 
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Rod Little

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 07:28:44 PM »
I saw a great video on a FB writer's group: someone cooking with the food she bought from the money she earned from "exposure" ... it was an empty pan.

Some people swear by it, but I think "exposure" from free books is over-appreciated.  You get some real estate on someone's kindle who will never (never, ever) buy a book for money. And, 98% of them will never read your book.

So, while many will disagree with me, I think all exposure is not equal. You want GOOD exposure. The exposure you want is on a PAID top-20 list, or a tweet from a popular person with many followers, or a good article/recommendation in a magazine.  Exposure from free books is not free. To me, it does more harm than good (and wait till the bad reviews come in! Because they love to reward you for the freebie with a bad review - all my bad reviews ... literally all of them... were from free or 99 cent sales).

But that's just me. I'm sure others see if differently.  I didn't hit any success until I made my books 5.99 and stuck to that (except for the 2 book bubs at 99 cents, and an occasional ENT).

That's my 2 cents. It's worth every penny! haha
Genre: science fiction, horror
     

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notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 09:17:35 PM »
I agree with everything you said, I just can't move my trilogies at all without the first book free.  I've found advertising them, as well as advertising my standalone romances to be a waste of time and money. That is probably a combination of the competitiveness of romance and the fact that my books themselves don't have the greatest appeal to romance readers.  I concentrate on advertising my two full price books in other genres and let the free books earn me a couple of bucks a week on read throughs.

And I agree that readers who get a book for free or for 99 cents are more likely to flame it, with the exception of the UK readers on my first Int'l bookbub, who left me all but one really nice review, and at a much higher rate than I expected.
 

Rod Little

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 01:44:25 PM »
I agree with everything you said, I just can't move my trilogies at all without the first book free.  I've found advertising them, as well as advertising my standalone romances to be a waste of time and money. That is probably a combination of the competitiveness of romance and the fact that my books themselves don't have the greatest appeal to romance readers.  I concentrate on advertising my two full price books in other genres and let the free books earn me a couple of bucks a week on read throughs.

And I agree that readers who get a book for free or for 99 cents are more likely to flame it, with the exception of the UK readers on my first Int'l bookbub, who left me all but one really nice review, and at a much higher rate than I expected.

Have you tried a 50% sale and advertise on FB or with static ads on genre-related sites?  It did well for me. I reduced my 5.99 (1st in series) to 2.99 for a week and ran "50%!" splash ads. Also, be sure to mention the price in the ad (and deadline/Time limit). Most people assume it's 10.99 with half off (5.50), so make sure you mention 2.99 in the ad.  That works well especially with non-ZON readers (i.e. B&N and iBooks, who are used to paying more). Remember, readers on genre-specific websites and blogs aren't fishing for 99 deals, they're just there to talk about the genre ... so a $2.99 or even a $5.99 book can be attractive.
Genre: science fiction, horror
     

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Joe Vasicek

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 02:41:19 PM »
Free still works, but not all freeloads are equal. The trick is getting your free book in the hands of someone who will actually read it, and not just horde it.

In other words, free is a tool, not a strategy.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 09:06:34 PM »
I agree with everything you said, I just can't move my trilogies at all without the first book free.  I've found advertising them, as well as advertising my standalone romances to be a waste of time and money. That is probably a combination of the competitiveness of romance and the fact that my books themselves don't have the greatest appeal to romance readers.  I concentrate on advertising my two full price books in other genres and let the free books earn me a couple of bucks a week on read throughs.

And I agree that readers who get a book for free or for 99 cents are more likely to flame it, with the exception of the UK readers on my first Int'l bookbub, who left me all but one really nice review, and at a much higher rate than I expected.
Have you tried a 50% sale and advertise on FB or with static ads on genre-related sites?  It did well for me. I reduced my 5.99 (1st in series) to 2.99 for a week and ran "50%!" splash ads. Also, be sure to mention the price in the ad (and deadline/Time limit). Most people assume it's 10.99 with half off (5.50), so make sure you mention 2.99 in the ad.  That works well especially with non-ZON readers (i.e. B&N and iBooks, who are used to paying more). Remember, readers on genre-specific websites and blogs aren't fishing for 99 deals, they're just there to talk about the genre ... so a $2.99 or even a $5.99 book can be attractive.
I don't do Facebook.  I have tried 99 cent sales on my romance standalones, every site I could get on, the results were terrible. I still submit them to Kobo promos, the compilations will get me a handful of sales in their box set, VIP or 40% off sales.  The standalones even less and they tend to reject those.

Thanks for trying to help but I've long given up on the romance books.  It's too competitive.  I just mention how it went for me when people are looking for data.
 

Marti Talbott

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 01:21:19 AM »
I think the world of reading has changed and maybe we haven't kept up.
Do people still join book clubs?
Do they tell all their friends when they find a good book?
Which social media platform actually works when it comes to promotion? (Not ads, just being social?)
Is there a way to pool our data, figure out what truly works and why?
Is there a way to pool our ad money and therefore cut costs?

Just asking.
Read The Swindler, a historical romance available at:
Amazon, Apple, Google Play, Kobo & Nook
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QG5K23
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2019, 02:30:22 AM »
I saw a great video on a FB writer's group: someone cooking with the food she bought from the money she earned from "exposure" ... it was an empty pan.

Some people swear by it, but I think "exposure" from free books is over-appreciated.  You get some real estate on someone's kindle who will never (never, ever) buy a book for money. And, 98% of them will never read your book.

So, while many will disagree with me, I think all exposure is not equal. You want GOOD exposure. The exposure you want is on a PAID top-20 list, or a tweet from a popular person with many followers, or a good article/recommendation in a magazine.  Exposure from free books is not free. To me, it does more harm than good (and wait till the bad reviews come in! Because they love to reward you for the freebie with a bad review - all my bad reviews ... literally all of them... were from free or 99 cent sales).

But that's just me. I'm sure others see if differently.  I didn't hit any success until I made my books 5.99 and stuck to that (except for the 2 book bubs at 99 cents, and an occasional ENT).

That's my 2 cents. It's worth every penny! haha
I agree with the idea that not all exposure is equal, and it's probably also true that many free books are not read. However, I'm always wary of assumptions like the sentence above where I added emphasis. None of us have the data to know whether either of these statements is true or not. It's logical to assume that some free books aren't read and that some downloaders are only interested in free. However, enough people make successful use of permafree first-in-series or of free promos on Bookbub to make it unlikely that either statistic is as dire as you suggest.

As Joe points out, free is a tool, not a strategy. I think the issue is not so much that it doesn't work at all, as that it has been so overused in recent years that it's effectiveness has declined.

When I first started (Sept 2012), there were some people who basically built careers using those Select free days. They had before and after stats to back the assertion that putting free samples out there enormously improved sales. But I haven't seen that kind of success story in years. That's probably partly because the number of free promotions has increased enormously in recent years, so that on any give day, there are thousands of free books available. Permafree books have also increased. The last time I checked, 18% of Smashwords' catalog was permafree. That's thousands more books. That doesn't even count reader magnets (though those tend to be short stories or novellas rather than full novels). Consequently, getting a free book isn't as big a thrill as it once was, and getting visibility for a free offer is harder than it was.

Another factor is KU. True, KU books aren't free, but readers who are both bargain-minded and voracious pay very little per book. Some people consider all books read beyond the point at which the cover prices would have equaled what they paid for their subscription as free. And then there are the free trial months. By definition, all the books that use Select free days are also in KU, which means there's no urgency for a KU reader to get that free download. They could read the book for very little any time they wanted. (Of course, permafree books are by definition not in KU, since the only way to make a book permafree is to price-match a wide title.)

The combination of overuse and competition from KU has definitely made free less effective, but some success stories suggest that, used judiciously, it can still make a positive difference under the right circumstances.


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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 02:52:08 AM »
I think the world of reading has changed and maybe we haven't kept up.
Do people still join book clubs?
Do they tell all their friends when they find a good book?
Which social media platform actually works when it comes to promotion? (Not ads, just being social?)
Is there a way to pool our data, figure out what truly works and why?
Is there a way to pool our ad money and therefore cut costs?

Just asking.
In theory, if we had enough writers involved in the sharing, yes. However, my guess is that there is a lot of variables. I'm sure you've noticed the same thing I have--any thread on marketing with a lot of posts probably contains contradictory data. A strategy works really well for some and not at all for others. The trick is isolating what variables might be at work. That requires a huge number of data points and some very good statisticians. Only then can the contradictions in the anecdotal evidence be explained well enough to get that evidence working for us.

To throw a small amount of data into the mix, I'm familiar with several book clubs. They are all trad-centric in their choices, hence probably not a good vehicle for indies most of the time. If you had a major celebrity who started a book club and included at least some indie titles, that might help change that culture.

The people who talk books with their friends are usually also trad-oriented, though I'm sure there are exceptions. (These days some of the talk occurs online, but it still occurs.)

What little data I have suggests that we are really dealing in some ways with two separate markets. When I look at the also-bought for trad books, they are mostly other trad books. When I look at the also-boughts for indies, they are predominately other indie books. (Yes, there are exceptions.) It appears that there are still many shoppers who buy mostly trad books. People who have overcome that bias may in some cases end up buying mostly trad books. In an ideal world, we'd find a way to break that barrier.

As far as pooling resources is concerned, I'm all for it, but there are a limited number of ways to do it. I've had luck with promos through companies like BookFunnel, both for newsletter signups and for sales. (The sales ones don't produce as many sales as the bigger newsletter-type ads do, but you can do as many of them as you want for the same basic fee, making them less expensive. The one I'm currently involved in appears to be converting clicks to sales at a 9% rate for one and an 13% rate for the other. (I wish my AMS ads did that well!) Of course, books do better when they are on sale, but even at sale prices, this is one of the few things I do that seems to have a positive ROI.

Another way to pool resources which I've mentioned before is the multi-author anthology. Some are united by theme, some by genre, some by season. They are often distributed free (which avoids messiness with dividing the royalties), but, despite what I said about free losing some of its impact, I've seen jumps in sales every time I've been in an anthology like that, and one helped me break into markets I hadn't had much presence in before. (Australia became my #2 market then and has stayed that way, even though I think that was three or more years ago.) The idea behind them is that each author promotes the anthology, and readers get a chance to sample the works of a number of different people. That seems to still have some appeal, though I haven't had a good opportunity in a couple of years. They are a lot of work for the editor(s) and don't seem to be happening as often.


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notthatamanda

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2019, 03:01:41 AM »
Lots of book clubs in my town (I'm not in any of them) Whenever I hear about one it is inevitably a trade published book.
People do talk about books around here but they are usually trades.  Even in my, relatively standoffish part of the country, people will walk up to you and talk to you about a book you are reading.  But it has to be a hard copy as no one can see what you are reading on a device.

I appreciate everyone's sharing of data on marketing and advertising.  I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without it.  Beyond that it would be too much work and not enough guarantee of reward for me to participate.
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2019, 08:19:34 AM »
I like Facebook.  It's easy to chat with people, and there are a lot of readers on there.  I don't pay for advertising, but I do manage some groups.  One is a tea group, where we rarely talk about books.  For me, it seems to be better to get to know people and then they read my books. 

I am a person who enjoys gardening, tea, fairytales, Victorian houses, old movies...and I happen to write books.

ETA:  I have done free books and they seem to work well for me.  Now that I'm wide, I'm trying a few 99c books for the holidays.  We left the series in KU and once it's finished, we'll probably make the first book free.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 08:25:46 AM by Lorri Moulton [Lavender Lass Books] »

Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
https://lavendercottagebooks.com/
 

cecilia_writer

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2019, 07:21:13 PM »
I also like Facebook - I have my author page on which I chat to readers, and I'm a member of a crime book club there (most of the readers seem to prefer noir but occasionally someone will ask for books without too much violence!) and also a Scottish book bloggers' group, despite not often  blogging about books.
My son and his friends have their own real world book club. As far as I can tell they read mostly what I would call classics - not Dickens etc but usually 20th century classics. Their sideline seems to be playing board games, and some of them even went to a board game convention quite recently - I hadn't realised there was such a thing!
Cecilia Peartree - Woman of Mystery
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Free vs paid
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2019, 09:01:16 PM »
Their sideline seems to be playing board games, and some of them even went to a board game convention quite recently - I hadn't realised there was such a thing!

A lot of scifi conventions run a board gaming room throughout. Some people vanish inside on day one and aren't seen until after the weekend!

I'm a keen board gamer, but I have 2 close friends I play with. That's plenty for me!