Author Topic: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question  (Read 2029 times)

MHodmann

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Not sure where to post this, so if it isn't in the right place, feel free to move...

I created a patreon page for my writing recently and before I really start using it in my marketing, I was looking for some feedback. Specifically on my page, but also in general.

Have any of you (or do you know people that) supported a writer's patreon?

If yes, what exactly was the reason to become a patron? Did you already know the writer? Family, friends? Or did something on their page trigger you to become a patron? If so, what was it? Is there anything that you think might be able to trigger you to become a patron?

My second question is more specific to my patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/mhodmann

I have posted the first chapter of my WIP there for all to read, and started posting the rest as tier 2 ($3/month) 'perks'. I've been wondering if I should maybe give a little more of a peek and make maybe the second and third chapters free to read as well. Do you think that would be a good idea? Bad? Why?
 

j tanner

Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2020, 02:35:26 AM »
99% (probably 99.9%) of patrons will be big fans of the creative's work or the creative themselves prior to joining their Patreon.

(Yes, that means that if you have no work(*) available, and no fans from other sources, you will typically have no patrons.)

You generally need a pretty large pool of fans to have enough to start cultivating a paid tier via Patreon due to that 1% conversion rate.

So Step 1 is to build up a fanbase elsewhere first.

The contents of your page don't really matter so much, because you haven't done Step 1 yet. But I can tell you that in comparison to other Patreon offers yours is among the weakest I've seen.

Example 1, a creative who's been producing content weekly for 10 years with tens of thousands of fans offers their entire catalog and new monthly exclusive content for patrons.  That's resulted in 700ish patrons at $5.

Example 2, a creative who's been producing content monthly for 5-10 years with tens of thousands of fans offers access to all finished work. This has resulted in 30ish patrons at $5.

Frankly, everything you're offering should be at the $1 tier. That's $12 a year for early access to 1-2 books that will probably be under $5 in their final form. Still not a great deal, but at least within reason. Even so, because you haven't done Step 1, it probably still isn't going to net you any significant number of patrons.


(*) WIP doesn't count as "work" in this context. The only people interested in WIP are people who love past work.

PS. I believe hiding your identity the way you have works against you as well. A pen name is fine, but you should generally be you otherwise for best results on Patreon.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 02:42:29 AM by j tanner »
 

MHodmann

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Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 12:08:15 AM »
Thanks for the feedback, j tanner.

The chicken-egg problem of a fanbase I am already aware of. You're right about that.

The pricing of everything is indeed one of the things I'm struggling with. I probably aimed too high, I agree.

The finished books will definitely not be under $5 in their final form, though. I think in general most self publishers aim too low on their prices. But still, as this is a monthly thing, it should be in lower tiers.

I guess I'll have to think about it a little more.

Thanks for taking a look and giving your opinion on it!
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2020, 12:50:39 AM »
The finished books will definitely not be under $5 in their final form, though. I think in general most self publishers aim too low on their prices.

I flip it the other way.

Way too many new authors attempt to price too high and crash and burn as a result.

If it's been on patreon instead of being published outright, its highly unlikely to sell above $5. No first book author can command that much. Even if its fantasy and 250k words.

Pricing is one of the eternal arguments among authors.

Most of us price what we know our readers will pay.

If you're thinking of 9.99 pricing, let's just say the last new author who came in here with 9.99 pricing, ignored all advice, got upset, and then his book plinked into the abyss and both book and author never heard from again. Just saying.
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LilyBLily

Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2020, 04:32:29 AM »
Seconding what Tim said. My latest book has 60 chapters. Do you think I can convince a bunch of strangers to buy each chapter at the same price they pay for an entire book? I'm not J. K. Rowling, so the answer is no.

None of us want to hear this. I totally understand your wanting to price your book based on what you believe it is worth. Unfortunately, the market determines prices for items that are not scarce, and new books by unknown authors are not scarce. Even books by authors who apparently are doing quite well are often sold at bargain prices as a means of gaining ranking and thus visibility in the Amazon store. Any price you pick is in competition with all the free books and the discounted books, too, as well as the books by established, famous authors.

Test the market with your pricing. Then offer your Patreon followers something they want at a price they will like. 

 

Alec Hutson

Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2020, 10:23:12 AM »

If you're thinking of 9.99 pricing, let's just say the last new author who came in here with 9.99 pricing, ignored all advice, got upset, and then his book plinked into the abyss and both book and author never heard from again. Just saying.

Haha, I remember that guy. He was so certain his writing was superior and that he was going to make 100k his first year as an author on one book. I even remember the title:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XJ1BZY1/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

Still at 9.99! But closing in on 3 million in the store.

Alec Hutson
 

PJ Post

Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 11:38:23 PM »
Regardless of price point, every product (reward tiers are also products) requires a positive value proposition, be it a Ferrari or a box of mints. That price is determined by the market, which has nothing to do with what everyone else is doing, but with how consumers evaluate your specific products. Ferrari doesn't set their pricing based upon what Porsche is doing. (This concept is known as differentiation.)  So, it doesn't matter that I can get product X cheaper, if I only want product Y. (This concept is known as fungibility, or how interchangeable products are with one another.) And yes, books obey the same basic set of business/market theories as sports cars and mints.

This type of brand loyalty (fan support) happens all the time; sports teams, be it Manchester United, the New England Patriots or Alabama football, are an extreme example, but it’s also true of books (King, Grisham, Clancy, Nora). The linchpin is trust, and that takes time to earn – but only seconds to lose, so let that be a warning/reminder about the dangers of social media and unrealistic expectations.

Try different stuff and experiment, but above all - have patience. The cliché that this is a marathon and not a sprint is demonstrably true. The ditches along the self-publishing road are full up with Indies that washed out along the way. Good luck and remember to have fun!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 11:55:13 PM by PJ Post »
 

j tanner

Re: Looking for general feedback on my patreon and a specific question
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2020, 02:14:18 AM »

If you're thinking of 9.99 pricing, let's just say the last new author who came in here with 9.99 pricing, ignored all advice, got upset, and then his book plinked into the abyss and both book and author never heard from again. Just saying.

Haha, I remember that guy. He was so certain his writing was superior and that he was going to make 100k his first year as an author on one book. I even remember the title:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XJ1BZY1/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0

Still at 9.99! But closing in on 3 million in the store.

Memory lane!

I plugged it into Novelrank at the time so I could track his progress and promptly forgot about it.

It's an imperfect tool, but with low sales it's a reasonable estimate. It's estimating 19 sales all time.

Never did anything about that dark as night cover either...