Author Topic: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub  (Read 33918 times)

LilyBLily

Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« on: February 19, 2021, 02:45:28 AM »
On the ever helpful partners blog, BookBub gives nine reasons a book was rejected:

https://insights.bookbub.com/reasons-book-rejected-bookbub-featured-deal

My problem is #7--not enough platform, specifically reviews. So we have that famous chicken-egg conundrum: Not enough sales to interest BookBub in increasing my books' sales, not enough reviews to interest BookBub in increasing my books' review count.

I guess I can use that thousand dollars I won't be spending on a BookBub ad for a lot of Facebook ads or something. Or maybe I'm supposed to hunt up and pay for a couple hundred reviews. That's a great use of ad money, just give the book away to a thousand people and hope I get a hundred new reviews. Or two hundred. Actually, it's hard to find a service that can give away that many books on the direct hope/assumption the recipient will review it. Straight book giveaways have not worked for me at all; I can give away a couple thousand books and get zero reviews.

Last week I had 23 requests for a free copy of one of my titles through a company that says it has a 75% review rate. So far, no new reviews. In my personal experience, if I don't read a book as soon as I download it, I probably won't read it ever, so I am not hopeful that 75% will apply to my book.

I'm committed to asking BookBub once a month every month this year, anyway. They might have an off moment and want my thousand dollars after all.
 
The following users thanked this post: Thorvald Meyers

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 02:56:55 AM »
I just applied today too. It's kind of a hail Mary at this point.
 

Anarchist

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 03:49:48 AM »
Nobody wants to be the first to arrive at a party. If a book has few reviews, few people will feel inclined to leave one.

One reason is exposure. Another is apathy.

If you have an ultra-responsive audience on a mailing list, you can launch and see 100+ reviews within a week (or even a couple days). Or you can rely on an ARC list. Or better still, do both.

If you can launch with 100 reviews, new readers will feel inclined to leave reviews. Once the book receives several hundred reviews, and assuming it continues to sell well, the reviews really start to pile in.

Having said that, I have no plans to submit to BB in the near future. I had one a couple years ago. It did well. I made money. But of course, the tail gradually eroded over the following weeks.

Today, I spend nearly all of my advertising time and money on AMS.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.” – Thomas Sowell

"The State is an institution run by gangs of murderers, plunderers and thieves, surrounded by willing executioners, propagandists, sycophants, crooks, liars, clowns, charlatans, dupes and useful idiots—an institution that dirties and taints everything it touches.” - Hans Hoppe

"Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience." - Adam Smith

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a basic human right.

I keep a stiff upper lip and shoot from the hip. - AC/DC
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 04:31:59 AM »
The lack of reviews is a bit misleading. I've had bookbubs on a box set with 4 reviews, and bookbubs on single books with less than 20 (and at the time, a 3.5 average to boot. It was the first part of a trilogy, and a few people whinged that it was the first part of a trilogy.)

Keep applying is my advice. It costs nothing except a few minutes of your time.

 
The following users thanked this post: Seoulite, Thorvald Meyers

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 09:27:19 AM »
I've had a book with only 3 reviews land on BookBub. I've applied around 30x and been accepted 3x over the past 2 yrs (2 LGBT (one intl only); 1 sci-fi).

Two things I'd  consider. They're expensive. Yes you get a ton of sales, but you're paying for it. A sci fi BB cost me over $750. My budgeting last year put me in the doldrums this week (it's tax time).

Another is predictability. You can't focus your marketing on them because they might or might not take you.

I'm usually accepted when I really don't expect to be. Case in point was my sci fi one. I really thought they would never accept the book. It had 23 reviews. But they did. A year before that I was accepted with 3 reviews AFTER I already did a launch promotion sale a month before. The BB was powerful enough to still be worth it the following month.

Keep applying. It doesn't hurt. And whatever the situation, it's always worth it (if you can afford it). It's certainly fun to watch 2 or 3 sales come in within one minute in the morning.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 04:01:53 PM »
I've applied 23 times since 2018, and I've been accepted 6 times. Of those I think 3 were international only.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2021, 09:54:32 PM »
Applied 80 times, accepted twice, intl only. The second one I didn't even make back the $200 bucks it cost me.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2021, 02:56:35 AM »
Based on where my sales usually happen, I don't see international as a significant market for any of my fiction. The international ad that BookBub occasionally may offer to some people won't be useful to me. I'm not going to apply for it. I don't need another disappointing and expensive ad experience.



 

 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2021, 04:45:18 AM »
Bear in mind humour+sf and humour+fantasy are relatively niche genres. The number of authors active in those genres would be in the low double digits - like 15-20 at a guess, and many of them only seem to have one or two books.

If you write and publish in a genre with a lot more competition, I'd imagine that it's much harder to get a bookbub. In their information pages, they mention that they consider how recently they promoted a similar title to the one being submitted.


 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2021, 07:56:07 AM »
Contemporary romance (I don't think BookBub even has a Western contemporary romance category) is hugely competitive. I've occasionally submitted a contemporary but am not surprised those have been turned down.

These days I only submit women's fiction, which is also very competitive. All my women's fiction is wide. I've been building up my list and later this year will actually turn some of my women's fiction into a soft series. By that I mean something similar to "A Lowcountry Novel" or "A Southern Novel" as a subtitle. Possibly with a number but maybe not. I'm not ready to investigate that yet.


 

PaulineMRoss

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2021, 09:04:55 AM »
Bookbubs are (mostly) awesome. Some people have misses with niche genres or the international-only, but generally speaking, they're still good. My first Bookbub was one of those unforgettable experiences (like the first orange bestseller flag, or the first time in the top 1000 ranking, or the first sale to someone who isn't your mate or your mum). I've had 9 altogether, and they've all done well. The last one was on 26th December, just two weeks after a new release, and the tail from that is still going strong and will probably last to the next release in three weeks.

My genre (Regency romance) is less competitive than some because they tend to have two every day, one free and one at 99c, so there's twice as many chances to get in. When I was trying to flog my epic fantasies, there was only one of those a day, and not every day, so there's far less of a shot at it. I don't have any particular tips, except that I've had a much better acceptance rate since I stopped applying routinely and only tried every three months or so. It took me 60 tries to get my first, but now I get accepted every two or three tries. It's definitely worth persevering!

Writing epic fantasy as Pauline M Ross; writing Regency romance as Mary Kingswood
Bookbub score: 13 for 89
 
The following users thanked this post: Simon Haynes

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 03:18:11 PM »
I'm still chasing a first bookbub for my middle-grade series.  I know it's a very small market (you can tell by the cost of a worldwide BB in that category), but I'm stubborn.  The paperbacks for that series have been flying out for the past 3-4 months, mostly due to my AMS efforts in the UK and US, but it would still be nice to give the series a kick up the charts.

I've never applied for a BB with my mil SF or gaslamp fantasy books. Both have 2 books out with a series of 3 planned, and both of those unwritten books are next in my plans. I sort of wanted to wait until there were three before I applied for a BB, to maximise sellthrough, but if I got a BB on either it would be all the motivation I needed to leap into writing #3.


 
The following users thanked this post: PaulineMRoss

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2021, 12:18:22 AM »
I think there's a downward trend in all the paid newsletters promos and it may be as simple as people lost interest in them.
 
The following users thanked this post: R. C.

Eric Thomson

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2021, 12:28:47 AM »
I think there's a downward trend in all the paid newsletters promos and it may be as simple as people lost interest in them.

I would hazard that the market is over-saturated with newsletter promos at this point. Everyone and his dancing banana is launching a new promo service every two minutes, hoping it's the path to easy riches. I know I get a lot of them, and read perhaps 10%, if that, and only if something catches my eye.
 
The following users thanked this post: Thorvald Meyers

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2021, 01:29:25 AM »
Oh I agree. So many paid newsletters.

What discount strategy with Google ads, if you don't mind me asking. Using google promo codes? I'm thinking of using those for the first time to discount my WWII book as the sequel will be released in April.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2021, 01:58:24 AM »
Thanks for the response. Yes google play promo codes. On the dash for google play you have access to this:

Create promo codes to offer customers a free or discounted book without lowering the book’s list price. Learn more about this new marketing tool.

I haven't investigated it fully yet. I'm planning on using my personal mailing list to email a promo code for my WWII book to see if I can jump start something that way.

I'm kind of mixing together google play and google ads, sorry.  Google ads question - can you set your bid on google ads to what ever you want? I had trouble with that when I tried google ads, going on 2 years ago.
 

alhawke

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2021, 02:29:53 AM »
I think there's a downward trend in all the paid newsletters promos and it may be as simple as people lost interest in them.
I think people tire with the day to day subscriptions. My thing is gathering all the email promotions every morning and clicking delete. I'm subscribed to about eight of them. It's not that I'm not interested, sometimes I browse, I like to do it, particularly the BookBubs, it's just ...
And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

But we all know BookBub tends to be worth our time. I contacted a new cover artist after admiring a cover a couple months ago from a BB email.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2021, 03:39:00 AM »
Just curious. Is there a reason why you will only offer discounts to Google Play customers, or do you plan to have a similar promo style offer for all platforms? I've never used promo codes, so I don't know if every platform has the same kind of code.

I've set Google Ads as low as $5 a day (you can go lower) and I doubt there is an upper limit. ;)

If you're having trouble setting it up, I recommend you contact Google support and ask for a marketing appointment. The Google person will call you at the time you nominate and ask you share screen access (it's an online Google meeting, so they can see your screen and guide you step-by-step -- the call center is in India and the guy I spoke to was very helpful).

I don't tend to launch books anymore. I run a continuous campaign one way or another and it's not expensive. There seems to be a baseline of sales I get without doing anything and campaigns bump up those sales -- the usual thing, the more I promote, the more I sell.
My understanding of it is it is a Google play promo code. It won't work anywhere else. I just did my first email list mailing ever a couple of weeks ago and sent my list a promo code for Kobo. Since it is a promo code you don't have to lower the prices on the platform or worry about getting matched by Amazon. I have only ever sent one email to my 13 email list subscribers so I am by no means an expert.

I assume when you say $5/day for the google ad you are talking about the campaign budget. I was never able to set the actual bid amount. Do you mind sharing how you do that? From what I remember you could bid 42 cents or let google pick it, but I may be remembering it wrong.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2021, 04:19:49 AM »
Cheap = less than 42 cents? I will have to get back into the google ad dash and poke around. Not today, but thank you for your help.
 

R. C.

  • Long Novel unlocked
  • ***
  • Posts: 973
  • Thanked: 320 times
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sooner barbarity than boredom." - T. Gautier
    • Ruairí Cinéad Ducantlin - Writer of Stories
Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2021, 04:55:31 AM »
...
For some reason, Google Ads doesn't work the same in Firefox.  This is based on using Edge.
...

I don't know about Edge but I can tell you, with certainty, Google Ads DOES NOT present the same all the time.

I use Chrome for Google Ads and have come to one rule: When in doubt use CTRL-F5.

Every time I CTRL-F5 the refreshed page updates with corrected numbers.  In "sub-menus" the menu options are hit-and-miss: CTRL-F5.

I find Google ADs very difficult to use, obtuse, and designed to eat budgets.  Their "recommendations" and "suggestions" are so far out in left field, they are pointless.

Cheers,
R.C.

P.S. - Out in left field is an Americanism derived from Baseball. It means way the heck over there!

P.P.S. - I have to turn OFF my VPN to get Google ADs to work at all.

↓↓↓ Latest Creation ↓↓↓
 

 
R.C. Ducantlin
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2021, 06:08:01 AM »
I just applied today too. It's kind of a hail Mary at this point.
Rejected. 24 hours from submission to rejection and they emailed me on a Saturday.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2021, 08:40:30 AM »
I just applied today too. It's kind of a hail Mary at this point.
Rejected. 24 hours from submission to rejection and they emailed me on a Saturday.

 :icon_sad:

They do their newsletter seven days a week so someone must have a Saturday shift. I wonder if there's any variation in acceptances on weekends, the way there's a variance at Amazon on what is erotica or what can't be on an ad?
 

Doglover

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2021, 04:11:27 PM »
Applied 80 times, accepted twice, intl only. The second one I didn't even make back the $200 bucks it cost me.
So, does international mean the rest of the world but not the USA?

I've never applied for a Bookbub, but the thing that bothers me about that list is the page count thing. Amazon have a strange idea of page count; my latest book's kindle version shows more than a hundred pages less than the identical print version. Every time I have to write to Amazon asking them to match the page count properly.

I'm also bothered by the cost. And is it really worth it any more? I mean, now we have Facebook ads and Amazon ads and even Bookbub itself are selling ad space, is the featured deal the golden egg it was to start with?

Having read the requirements, I am not about to go wide for anyone. I make a vast majority of my income from page reads. I tried wide before a couple of times and got absolutely nowhere.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 04:18:15 PM by Doglover »
 

Doglover

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2021, 04:25:57 PM »
Just looking at the Bookbub submission. It is asking me if I publish my audio books traditionally or independently. I have no idea what that means. I publish through ACX; which one is that?

They go on a lot about covers, yet the covers on their home page for readers are not my idea of wonderful.
 

PaulineMRoss

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2021, 07:18:19 PM »
Just looking at the Bookbub submission. It is asking me if I publish my audio books traditionally or independently. I have no idea what that means. I publish through ACX; which one is that?

Traditionally means you have a deal with someone like Podium or Tantor to produce your audiobooks. Independently means you got it done yourself, either paying upfront or royalty share.

I'm also bothered by the cost. And is it really worth it any more? I mean, now we have Facebook ads and Amazon ads and even Bookbub itself are selling ad space, is the featured deal the golden egg it was to start with?

For me, the answer is unequivocally YES. A Bookbub featured deal for my genre (historical romance) for a free book is under $500, and for the last one I made that back in a couple of days from ebook sales, page reads and audio sales. I'm still seeing a distinct tail 8 weeks later. That's a particularly good result, but even a bad Bookbub is hugely profitable for me.

BUT it does vary by genre and by particular book/author, and there's general agreement that a Bookbub is not what it was in the heady days of 5 or 6 years ago. It used to be a career maker. Now, it's just a very profitable promotion (at best). You really won't know until you try it. And you don't have to be wide, but in some genres it's almost impossible to get one unless you are.


Writing epic fantasy as Pauline M Ross; writing Regency romance as Mary Kingswood
Bookbub score: 13 for 89
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2021, 09:50:47 PM »
Applied 80 times, accepted twice, intl only. The second one I didn't even make back the $200 bucks it cost me.
So, does international mean the rest of the world but not the USA?

I've never applied for a Bookbub, but the thing that bothers me about that list is the page count thing. Amazon have a strange idea of page count; my latest book's kindle version shows more than a hundred pages less than the identical print version. Every time I have to write to Amazon asking them to match the page count properly.

I'm also bothered by the cost. And is it really worth it any more? I mean, now we have Facebook ads and Amazon ads and even Bookbub itself are selling ad space, is the featured deal the golden egg it was to start with?

Having read the requirements, I am not about to go wide for anyone. I make a vast majority of my income from page reads. I tried wide before a couple of times and got absolutely nowhere.
An Intl only is the UK, India, Australia and Canada.

If you have audiobooks I did make my money back on a Findaway/Chirp/Bookbub. I would do that again, except I'm not doing audio again for a while. Those you submit through Findaway.
 

Crystal

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2021, 05:08:27 AM »
BookBub is really not the career maker it once was. I had some 2016 BookBubs that made 3-20x their fee, but in the last few years, my BookBubs have mostly broken even or, maybe, made 2x their fee. The sellthrough just isn't there.

I hear it's better wide and better with Free vs .99 BookBubs, but I haven't had good luck getting Free BookBubs in some time. I wouldn't turn down a BookBub, but I wouldn't plan around one either. Just keep submitting different books, on the timelines they allow. Eventually, you'll get one.

Of course, I can only seem to get new adult 'Bubs. I don't know what you have to do to get one in erotic romance. I hear they're better, but I don't expect to get one... ever.
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2021, 08:06:32 AM »
I make the assumption that BookBub is doing all this nagging overmarketing because in fact readers do not click as much anymore. They aren't the only discount newsletter in town.

It could be, however, that readers are clicking but are favoring trad pub backlist titles over indie titles. It would be lovely if someone who was trad pubbed and had a BookBub could provide us with figures or even with a sense of how successful the ads are, but my bet is that they are not privy to the results at all and they may not even know how much or how little the trad pub pays for the ads--which could be on a different tier than the pricing for indies.

An opposite possibility is that BookBub's increasing space given to backlist trad pub books has made its original core readers less interested in their newsletters. Those books are already in the public library and some are available to borrow as ebooks. Do I need to buy a 30-year-old Ellis Peters mystery through BookBub? Probably not. 

Or it simply could be that there is a lot of competition today and readers are choosier. I know as a reader there was a moment years ago when suddenly there were more Regency romances published per month than I could read. I could afford to buy them all (I had a job!), but there were too many to read and I quickly discovered some were inferior. It made me back away from all of them. The same happened with contemporary romances. Too many? Stick with well-known and trusted authors. However, that does not account for diminishing returns for indie authors who have been around for a while, does it?

Maybe someone else has some insights into why the BookBub trend is down.

 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2021, 08:36:16 AM »
Interesting.

I'd add to the thinking that performance of all paid eshots appear to be declining and that's been true for years. This downward trend isn't just BookBub. BookBub invested heavily in 2014/15 to build up the huge mail list they have today. I suspect they're suffering from the same thing that's taken down the other paid eshot providers, it just wasn't as visible as quickly because their mail lists are so large.

I suspect the same. I think email fatigue is part of it.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2021, 10:14:00 AM »
I was going to make the same point about the ordering and the email. Some places send you multiple ones a day.

I just talked to my kid (15).  She gets youtube notifications when the (mom's note - idiot) youtubers she like posts a new video. Those pop up on her phone. She also gets notications on her phone when someone emails her - once every two to three weeks. We've got a whole generation of potential readers who don't use email at all or at least avoid it. I think what makes the most sense is (following the youtube model) is having people subscribe to notifications and they will pop up on their phone. For example, someone follows an author they like on Kobo and signs up for notifications. When the author has a new release a notification can pop up on their phone.

Getting off topic, sorry.
 
The following users thanked this post: Seoulite

Anarchist

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2021, 10:54:23 AM »
But I have been trying to understand why BookBub isn't performing anymore. Are they losing subscribers? Is there a general trend against indies or Amazon books or books in general? Are people just fed up with getting emails?

In my opinion, it's an effect of supply and demand.

There are countless books offered for sale or $0.99. Meanwhile, people like myself have limited time to read. So, I glance through the daily BB email. If something catches my eye, I'll click.

I won't download or buy if the book...

  • has fewer than 50 reviews
  • has a review average lower than 4.3
  • is part of a series and not book #1
  • is part of a series that is not complete

I have other criteria, but will keep them to myself lest I offend someone.

The point is, books have to get through a lot of filters to get my download/purchase. I'm sure many other readers follow a similar practice.

When producers create a glut of supply, customers become more discriminating in their choices.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.” – Thomas Sowell

"The State is an institution run by gangs of murderers, plunderers and thieves, surrounded by willing executioners, propagandists, sycophants, crooks, liars, clowns, charlatans, dupes and useful idiots—an institution that dirties and taints everything it touches.” - Hans Hoppe

"Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience." - Adam Smith

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a basic human right.

I keep a stiff upper lip and shoot from the hip. - AC/DC
 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2021, 12:27:02 PM »
Side note: The largest groups of readers are not young. They're people who have to use email at work or used to before they retired and they use email at home, too. The young who grow up to get decent jobs will find themselves forced to use email because that's a form of documentation that the employer owns and insists on. I think the concern that people won't use email in the future is unwarranted--for now, anyway.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2021, 02:06:59 PM »
My current intl bookbub is for a wide, 99c title. I had one in December for a KU exclusive 99c title. The wide one, despite this only being day 3, has sold twice as many copies** as the KU exclusive one did. Rank is Amazon, Kobo, Google, Apple, B&N*

*still waiting for B&N figs.

**treating both books as identical commodities here, which is obviously not the case

It's possible a US BB would have a different outcome, but I can only report on whatever figures I have.  Bear in mind I promo-stacked with the same sites both times.

The result of the wide BB does support my decision to leave KU, in my opinion.






 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2021, 09:47:33 PM »
Well congrats on your latest bookbub Simon.

With the amount of entries bookbub gets I'm surprised they are accepting books with less than a 4.3 review rating.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2021, 12:24:25 AM »
Mine only has a 3.9, but a lot of the 1* are complaining that it's 'book one in a trilogy'

That died down a lot after I put a graphic on the first or second page explaining what a trilogy was, with the help of some cover thumbnails and big friendly arrows.

Earlier this year I included the first chapter from books 2 & 3 in the previous book, so they could SEE that it continued.
 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2021, 02:15:47 AM »
Side note: The largest groups of readers are not young. They're people who have to use email at work or used to before they retired and they use email at home, too. The young who grow up to get decent jobs will find themselves forced to use email because that's a form of documentation that the employer owns and insists on. I think the concern that people won't use email in the future is unwarranted--for now, anyway.

I've been hearing that people don't use eMail anymore for like ten or more years now.  :shrug

When people stop putting eMail addresses on their business cards, then maybe I'll believe it.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 
The following users thanked this post: Anarchist

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2021, 03:22:00 AM »
IANAL but I think there are probably good legal reasons to use email in business correspondence.

The question is can some platform (Walmart?) get people who prefer text and like to read get people to sign up for text notifications for deals on books or new releases by favorite authors to be notified on their phone? Will that become the next generation email newsletter promo thingy?

Are any other types of businesses doing this? I wouldn't know. I go to great pains not to give out my cellphone number. Ten years ago, more, my friend put my number in some service that texted me any time she walked into a CVS or Target. I was pissed. Managed to ask nicely to get her to take me off the list. She was getting points for it or something.

Side note - I went poking around Walmart to see if they added a notification when they sent you to Kobo, but instead of finding that I found that one of my titles is wrong. It's bizarre. Picture the cover and description of The Hunger Games with a Title like "Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends."
 

Anarchist

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2021, 03:28:07 AM »
Side note: The largest groups of readers are not young. They're people who have to use email at work or used to before they retired and they use email at home, too. The young who grow up to get decent jobs will find themselves forced to use email because that's a form of documentation that the employer owns and insists on. I think the concern that people won't use email in the future is unwarranted--for now, anyway.

I've been hearing that people don't use eMail anymore for like ten or more years now.  :shrug

When people stop putting eMail addresses on their business cards, then maybe I'll believe it.

When people stop joining my lists, emailing me to discuss my books and emails (and share weirdly intimate details about their lives), and clicking my links to buy my stuff, I'll believe it.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.” – Thomas Sowell

"The State is an institution run by gangs of murderers, plunderers and thieves, surrounded by willing executioners, propagandists, sycophants, crooks, liars, clowns, charlatans, dupes and useful idiots—an institution that dirties and taints everything it touches.” - Hans Hoppe

"Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience." - Adam Smith

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a basic human right.

I keep a stiff upper lip and shoot from the hip. - AC/DC
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2021, 03:32:51 AM »
For me it's more about that there are people out there who don't want to use email and we are not reaching them. It doesn't mean we have to give up on using email, it means there is a potential untapped audience.
 

Post-Crisis D

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2021, 03:39:23 AM »
The question is can some platform (Walmart?) get people who prefer text and like to read get people to sign up for text notifications for deals on books or new releases by favorite authors to be notified on their phone? Will that become the next generation email newsletter promo thingy?

Are any other types of businesses doing this? I wouldn't know. I go to great pains not to give out my cellphone number. Ten years ago, more, my friend put my number in some service that texted me any time she walked into a CVS or Target. I was pissed. Managed to ask nicely to get her to take me off the list. She was getting points for it or something.

I think that would be a problem too.  I mean, there is more or less a finite number of phone numbers.  That is, you can't just make one up.  And, if you change numbers, odds are you'll get a number someone else used previously and end up getting a lot of junk calls directed at them.  For example, at the office, we switched phone providers a number of years ago and what they did was map our numbers to new numbers so we could keep our numbers.  But, those numbers our numbers mapped/forwarded to were numbers previously used by someone else.  So, for years, there were collection calls for people that never worked here and it seems no matter what you do you cannot get those collection agencies to stop calling.  And then the debt gets sold and different collection agencies start calling.  Those calls stopped when we switched phone providers again a year or so ago.  Finally.

With eMail, on the other hand, the potential combinations are infinite.  So, if you start getting too much junk eMail at one address, you can change your eMail to something else.  Now, with phone numbers, since there is a finite number of them, junk callers can guess your number.  With eMail, spammers use dictionary attacks where they will use common words and proper names to guess at eMail addresses.  If you avoid such combinations, and use something like author2371@whatever.dom, it's darned near impossible for them to guess it and they would likely only obtain it if you used it somewhere that was hacked or sold or if they scraped it from a site you'd posted on using it.

Bottom line is that it's easier to filter junk and spam from eMail than from phone numbers.

Maybe one day, someone will create the best of both worlds, like an eMail address that can be used for eMail, texting and phone calls, similar to how a phone number can be used for texts and calls.
Mulder: "If you're distracted by fear of those around you, it keeps you from seeing the actions of those above."
The X-Files: "Blood"
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2021, 03:53:07 AM »
Oh boy do I know that. Someone named Abigal had my phone number before me and I still get a couple of spam texts a month for her. In the beginning it was relentless.

Legitimate businesses do ask for your cell phone (eg doctor's offices to text appointment reminders). Whether people want more stuff on their phone is a personal choice. You make a lot of good points, Dan.

But as paid, third party, email promo newsletters become less effective I do wonder what the next big thing will be.

 

LilyBLily

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2021, 03:23:26 PM »
I don't write for young people. They can just grow up and learn to use email.

 grint

Seriously, chasing a market that is anti words in actual punctuated sentences does not strike me as a good way to sell my books. Which, you know, have lots of words in actual punctuated sentences.

 Grin
 
The following users thanked this post: Post-Crisis D

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2021, 11:07:54 PM »
Well with the decline of the third party, paid, email promo and not being able to get the ball rolling on AMS to save my life, I'd really like some other options. Still working on my personal mailing list (2 new subscribers this week).  I'll dip back into google ads eventually.
 

Doglover

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2021, 11:12:40 PM »
Well with the decline of the third party, paid, email promo and not being able to get the ball rolling on AMS to save my life, I'd really like some other options. Still working on my personal mailing list (2 new subscribers this week).  I'll dip back into google ads eventually.
I've had more success with Facebook ads than anything else.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2021, 11:22:46 PM »
Thanks. I am of the "no way I'm getting sucked into Facebook" tribe, at my own peril, I realize.

Also, I do know kids/teens/young adults who are big readers. Just not my kids. :( But they don't use email unless forced too.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2021, 11:35:21 PM »
Thanks, I'm actually wide too. Right now I'm doing a light edit on my first trilogy and adding my website and mailing list to the end of it. I have to do that to most of my books. Once that's done I'll do a bknights on it. Cheap and usually good for a couple of hundred downloads. I'll see if that gets me any mailing list subscribers.

Tackling google ads again is definitely on my list and I may try to do it for my April release.

Side complaint - got a one page page read this month. I realize someone could have had the book since I left KU completely (2018) but there is at least a chance they could have read it in page flip and I get nothing so I'm steaming over that again.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2021, 11:58:01 PM »
First in trilogy permafree was a dependable 200-300 downloads for bknights for me. I think they do well for romance, which the trilogy is. I used to start my stacked promos with that one when I was in KU and do 5 days of promos a quarter to get it pushed up in the ranks. Then books two and three would sell and those would stay in the top 100 paid ranks and keep the tail going once the first book reverted back to paid.

I tried a couple of 99 cent ones with bknights and it wasn't good, they actually contacted me to refund my money they felt so bad about it.

I like working with the Written Word people, but free and bargain booksy have gotten more expensive and diminishing returns.

So we'll see how it goes, I should be running the bknights sometime in March, if I can stay motivated on the edit, almost done with book 2.
 

Doglover

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2021, 12:09:50 AM »
Thanks. I am of the "no way I'm getting sucked into Facebook" tribe, at my own peril, I realize.

Also, I do know kids/teens/young adults who are big readers. Just not my kids. :( But they don't use email unless forced too.
Okay, your choice. I'm running a free Booksy and Booksends for a free first in series this week, so I'll let you know. I'm still waiting to hear from EReader News Today.
 
The following users thanked this post: notthatamanda

Doglover

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2021, 12:24:13 AM »
Hope it goes well!
Thanks. So do I. I've never done a promotion like this before. I've always done Facebook ads, but I'm saving my money till I get paid from Amazon at the end of March. I know a really successful writer who uses these sorts of promotions all the time, so let's hope. I don't know how long ENT will take to get back to me.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Now I know why I will never get a BookBub
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2021, 12:36:51 AM »
If I remember correctly, ENT might not notify you if you don't get accepted. Not 100% sure. Good luck and thanks for offering to share the results.