Now I know why I will never get a BookBub

[Crystal]

You're more likely to get accepted if you point to a successful BookBub in the past, especially if it's a similar book or the same series.

If BookBub readers had book one as a BB freebie three months ago, they'll probably be interested in book two for .99 (assuming series of standalones).

BookBub is really not a mystery. Subscribe to the newsletter for a few weeks or months. Watch the categories. A solid 80% of the books in each category will follow very specific criteria. I.e. Contemporary romance books are almost always light and fun, they're generally wide, they have more classy covers. New adult has sexier covers, anything bad boy or vaguely darkish but not dark romance, a higher percent of KU books (but still mostly wide).

Most of the books in a given category look similar. They go together.

If you don't want to package your book so it fits into a BB category, that's fine, but why would BookBub go out of their way to figure out where your book fits?

[lea_owens]

O. M. G. I just got my first BookBub after all those tries over all these years! *HAPPY DANCE* I just had to race in here and share the news because no one else I know would appreciate why I'm this excited.

It's not for my main sellers but for the first in my middle grade/teen series of horse mysteries, The Outback Riders (most readers are older women who like clean horse-themed adventures and mysteries). It's a free promotion in all regions. The series makes $500 to $700 most months (it's only on Amazon)  without any advertising, so fingers crossed BB still has some influence. There are five books in the series and the first is only short, so I might make the second book free at the same time to draw readers into the series.

If I've been hit with a bit of goodluck fairy dust, I'm tossing it towards all of you in the hope the good luck is shared.

[alhawke]

O. M. G. I just got my first BookBub after all those tries over all these years! *HAPPY DANCE* I just had to race in here and share the news because no one else I know would appreciate why I'm this excited.

I do the happy dance with you   
Good luck!

[Jeff Tanyard]

O. M. G. I just got my first BookBub after all those tries over all these years! *HAPPY DANCE* I just had to race in here and share the news because no one else I know would appreciate why I'm this excited.

It's not for my main sellers but for the first in my middle grade/teen series of horse mysteries, The Outback Riders (most readers are older women who like clean horse-themed adventures and mysteries). It's a free promotion in all regions. The series makes $500 to $700 most months (it's only on Amazon)  without any advertising, so fingers crossed BB still has some influence. There are five books in the series and the first is only short, so I might make the second book free at the same time to draw readers into the series.

If I've been hit with a bit of goodluck fairy dust, I'm tossing it towards all of you in the hope the good luck is shared.

 

[JRTomlin]

Congrats. Hope it goes great for you.

[notthatamanda]

Congratulations Lea!

[LilyBLily]

Congratulations, Lea! 

[Pemry Janes]

Congratulations Lea 

[Simon Haynes]

Good stuff! Hope it leads to a boatload of sales.

[LilyBLily]

The heartening aspect of a boatload of sales is the realization that with the right advertising, we actually can sell our books. Some of us need the occasional reminder!
 

[LilyBLily]

A while back, Hidden Gems said it had a newsletter and in celebration of Canada Day an ad in it would be discounted to $7.00. I bought an ad. It hasn't even earned a dollar in sales or reads.

Although everybody and his brother has started a discount newsletter, the reason BookBub still reigns supreme is that, unlike all the others, it delivers. 

[alhawke]

A while back, Hidden Gems said it had a newsletter and in celebration of Canada Day an ad in it would be discounted to $7.00. I bought an ad. It hasn't even earned a dollar in sales or reads.

Was the book romance? They're primarily a romance driven newsletter.

Dollar for sales it's done well for my romance books. Usually 10 sales for a 99c promo. Ten sales for a $10 dollar ad in the past is better dollar-to-sales than a Bookbub ad. We have to factor in the large BB expense when looking at BB success too.

[LilyBLily]

A while back, Hidden Gems said it had a newsletter and in celebration of Canada Day an ad in it would be discounted to $7.00. I bought an ad. It hasn't even earned a dollar in sales or reads.

Was the book romance? They're primarily a romance driven newsletter.

Dollar for sales it's done well for my romance books. Usually 10 sales for a 99c promo. Ten sales for a $10 dollar ad in the past is better dollar-to-sales than a Bookbub ad. We have to factor in the large BB expense when looking at BB success too.

It was a romance but not first in series. I have another HG ad coming up next month that's for a stand-alone romance. My title got decent positioning in this Hidden Gems ad, too. Perhaps I simply can't write a hooky piece of ad copy. Le sigh. 

 

[alhawke]

More likely it's due to the time of year or the decrease effectiveness of promos in general now adays. I like Hidden Gems for affordability but not if they don't produce results. Let us know if you have a good run next month. And best of luck!

[LilyBLily]

I've now been paid for the first and second BookBub ads and that was enough to offset my ad costs for all three ads, both the ad stacks and the BB ads, plus a decent profit. The third set of payments, to come in the next month, will be all profit. Totally different from my experiences with other ad newsletters--including the ones I used in the stacks. They never break even. Perhaps the good results are because of the sheer numbers of subscribers BB has. Apparently, my books sell at too low a percentage to break even elsewhere.

One nice benefit has been the accumulation of something like 70 ratings/reviews on one title and a dozen or so each on the other two. I just did a Hidden Gems review quest and the response was tepid, to say the least. I need Stan Lee to write my ad copy. Or Rory Sutherland (hilarious British ad guy). Bombast or shrewd appeal. Whatever. I know the formula for ad copy but...meh. I'm supposed to be writing some today for the next release and I am struggling, as usual.

[Simon Haynes]

Got an email from Amazon last week asking if I was interested in a Kindle Deal on a different book (first in series) for amazon.co.uk.  I've had these before and they never eventuated, so I just clicked yes and forgot about it.

Well, it got accepted, and that book is a 99p featured deal for the month of July on amazon UK.  I've not had one of these in my 10+ years as an indie author, but to be honest my expectations are low as I've heard from various sources it's not that much of a thing.

Good luck with it.

It's been running for the month (and apparently in Germany as well as Britain.)  Seemed to do okay, and today I got another email from them about a kindle deal for the UK ... on the same book (but next month.)

[Simon Haynes]

A couple of days ago I applied for a BB on my middle-grade series starter.  It was accepted (intl only) last night.

That was the sixth time I've applied with that book since 2018, and it was rejected every time before this one.

A MG bookbub (intl) is only $40, with a very small market, so it's not going to sell up a storm, but the paperback has been doing well over the past 12 months so all visibility will be helpful.

[lea_owens]

Congratulations, Simon! Wishing you success with your BB.

[LilyBLily]

That's great, Simon. You might even make a profit, but regardless, at $40, you're not risking big money. I've occasionally seen newsletter ads for middle-grade books. Do these work t all?

[Simon Haynes]

That's great, Simon. You might even make a profit, but regardless, at $40, you're not risking big money. I've occasionally seen newsletter ads for middle-grade books. Do these work t all?

I tried one newsletter ad for MG about 8 or 9 years ago.  I can't rememember who it was with, but I know it was a disaster.  I've been angling for a BB for the past 2-3 years, but honestly I only apply with the MG novel when I've worn out my welcome with my adult books.

MG ebooks are a waste of time for me. Since I switched to advertising them heavily in paperback they've done a lot better. (over 400 copies in the first half of this year, just over 250 for all of last year, and only 100 for all of 2019.)

Unfortunately, POD pricing doesn't compare with mass produced paperbacks, and if you bring the retail price down to something more-or-less acceptable there's no margin for advertising.

To be honest my ongoing, non-stop efforts with my MG books are really just me being stubborn. But there's this little voice telling me these are really good books to get kids reading scifi, and if the series does hit the spot one day, I'm sure it'll go ballistic.

[LilyBLily]

That's great, Simon. You might even make a profit, but regardless, at $40, you're not risking big money. I've occasionally seen newsletter ads for middle-grade books. Do these work t all?

I tried one newsletter ad for MG about 8 or 9 years ago.  I can't rememember who it was with, but I know it was a disaster.  I've been angling for a BB for the past 2-3 years, but honestly I only apply with the MG novel when I've worn out my welcome with my adult books.

MG ebooks are a waste of time for me. Since I switched to advertising them heavily in paperback they've done a lot better. (over 400 copies in the first half of this year, just over 250 for all of last year, and only 100 for all of 2019.)

Unfortunately, POD pricing doesn't compare with mass produced paperbacks, and if you bring the retail price down to something more-or-less acceptable there's no margin for advertising.

To be honest my ongoing, non-stop efforts with my MG books are really just me being stubborn. But there's this little voice telling me these are really good books to get kids reading scifi, and if the series does hit the spot one day, I'm sure it'll go ballistic.

Sheer stubbornness is what gets us anywhere.

Depending on where your market is for the paperbacks, it might be more profitable to use a job printer and then send Amazon the books to warehouse and mail as sales are made. Your margin could be better and I know some people do that. But it's another learning curve, and job printers by and large in the U.S. are crooks or incompetents (take your pick) who routinely overcharge. Years ago, we literally found the asking price cut in half when we were about to end our relationship with one printer because we could not afford to pay what we had been. They had that much margin built in; that is, they saw we had no way to compare prices and so they plucked a nice fat one out of thin air and gouged us mercilessly until we said we had to end it. Thus, I am not exactly recommending that route, but I have heard it can result in a higher per copy profit. So can hand selling at events, if you don't count the value of your time and all the other associated costs. Been there, done that, too.

Another possibility is a licensing deal with a trad publisher who has distribution clout, such as Scholastic, but again, that's a learning curve, and you are a writer first. Maybe your agent could look around for a publisher to license them?

Anyway, for now, I'm sure the BB will get you some fun results.

[notthatamanda]

Amazon has bought my paperbacks by the case (from Ingram) and when they want to get rid of the last few they mark them down and mark the ebooks down too if they feel like it, and they always feel like it. Just something to be aware of. Good luck with the BB, Simon.

[LilyBLily]

Amazon has bought my paperbacks by the case (from Ingram) and when they want to get rid of the last few they mark them down and mark the ebooks down too if they feel like it, and they always feel like it. Just something to be aware of. Good luck with the BB, Simon.

Good reminder. Ingram may be an easy solution but Amazon sure does dream up ways to turn it into yet another problem.

[alhawke]

MG ebooks are a waste of time for me. Since I switched to advertising them heavily in paperback they've done a lot better. (over 400 copies in the first half of this year, just over 250 for all of last year, and only 100 for all of 2019.)

That's some great paperback sales. Are you using AMS? It's hard to figure out how to market paperbacks successfully. Genre-wise I suppose it makes sense that MG would sell well as a paperback or by library.
Best of luck with your BB!

[alhawke]

Amazon has bought my paperbacks by the case (from Ingram) and when they want to get rid of the last few they mark them down and mark the ebooks down too if they feel like it, and they always feel like it. Just something to be aware of. Good luck with the BB, Simon.

Yep, one of my paperbacks recently fell below $2.99. Then the ebook was price-matched below $2.99.  I had to ratchet up Ingram's price substantially. For future problems, that's the way to do it. Increase the price and market % on Ingram.

The price matching games are enraging. Amazon knows they can do it because they're ... Amazon. I'd like to see this one day go away.

[notthatamanda]

I don't think that would work if Amazon has books in stock. I'm just guessing though.

[Simon Haynes]

That's great, Simon. You might even make a profit, but regardless, at $40, you're not risking big money. I've occasionally seen newsletter ads for middle-grade books. Do these work t all?

I tried one newsletter ad for MG about 8 or 9 years ago.  I can't rememember who it was with, but I know it was a disaster.  I've been angling for a BB for the past 2-3 years, but honestly I only apply with the MG novel when I've worn out my welcome with my adult books.

MG ebooks are a waste of time for me. Since I switched to advertising them heavily in paperback they've done a lot better. (over 400 copies in the first half of this year, just over 250 for all of last year, and only 100 for all of 2019.)

Unfortunately, POD pricing doesn't compare with mass produced paperbacks, and if you bring the retail price down to something more-or-less acceptable there's no margin for advertising.

To be honest my ongoing, non-stop efforts with my MG books are really just me being stubborn. But there's this little voice telling me these are really good books to get kids reading scifi, and if the series does hit the spot one day, I'm sure it'll go ballistic.

Sheer stubbornness is what gets us anywhere.

Depending on where your market is for the paperbacks, it might be more profitable to use a job printer and then send Amazon the books to warehouse and mail as sales are made. Your margin could be better and I know some people do that. But it's another learning curve, and job printers by and large in the U.S. are crooks or incompetents (take your pick) who routinely overcharge. Years ago, we literally found the asking price cut in half when we were about to end our relationship with one printer because we could not afford to pay what we had been. They had that much margin built in; that is, they saw we had no way to compare prices and so they plucked a nice fat one out of thin air and gouged us mercilessly until we said we had to end it. Thus, I am not exactly recommending that route, but I have heard it can result in a higher per copy profit. So can hand selling at events, if you don't count the value of your time and all the other associated costs. Been there, done that, too.

Another possibility is a licensing deal with a trad publisher who has distribution clout, such as Scholastic, but again, that's a learning curve, and you are a writer first. Maybe your agent could look around for a publisher to license them?

Anyway, for now, I'm sure the BB will get you some fun results.

Back in 2012 I sent the first three chapters of the MG novel to 3 major publishers, and promised myself I'd wait 3 months for a reply. (Two got back to me, one didn't.)  I was trad-pubbed back then, which carried some clout.

So I launched a self-pubbed edition and went back to my adult novels ... then got an email from the third publisher saying they were interested, and asked to see the full manuscript. I explained it was too late, and that was that. (I had waited longer than their advertised response time.)

I've always said that self-pubbed MG is a really hard road to take - mainly because your audience doesn't buy their own books, and parents and grandparents tend to buy whatever has buzz around it.

[Simon Haynes]

MG ebooks are a waste of time for me. Since I switched to advertising them heavily in paperback they've done a lot better. (over 400 copies in the first half of this year, just over 250 for all of last year, and only 100 for all of 2019.)

That's some great paperback sales. Are you using AMS? It's hard to figure out how to market paperbacks successfully. Genre-wise I suppose it makes sense that MG would sell well as a paperback or by library.
Best of luck with your BB!

Yes, all through KDP Print and using AMS ads.

I think the pandemic might have had something to do with it - people turned to online ordering for kids books/gifts, and once they're on Amazon the playing field is far more level when compared to the shelves of books at a school book fair (one big-name publisher only), or local bookstores (trad pubbed only, bigger names with stacks of books, lesser lights with one copy.)


I had an agent from around 2008-2012, then we parted ways when I went indie & started to write MG. (I took them on specifically to break into the UK market, not to handle my affairs in Australia. Sadly, the UK publishers didn't bite - they regard Australia as a vital chunk of their sales, around 30% I believe, and I was already published here.)

[JRTomlin]

Today is my BB promo. At 11 AM Pacific, I show about 11,000 downloads on Amazon and Kobo combined, but I don't have a report from Apple, B&N, or Google. And Amazon reports are totally wonky for me at the moment, so I can't tell if that is accurate or not. The sales and revenue reports do not match up at all. IF the number of sales is correct then I've sold a hundred copies of the rest of the series so far today. But no clue for the other retailers. Usually, I do well on Apple with BB promos so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

That isn't a terrible number this early in the day so... we'll see.

I am not greatly impressed with their blurb for the novel which is unusual. It isn't bad just a bit blah. 🤷‍♀️

[LilyBLily]

Today is my BB promo. At 11 AM Pacific, I show about 11,000 downloads on Amazon and Kobo combined, but I don't have a report from Apple, B&N, or Google. And Amazon reports are totally wonky for me at the moment, so I can't tell if that is accurate or not. The sales and revenue reports do not match up at all. IF the number of sales is correct then I've sold a hundred copies of the rest of the series so far today. But no clue for the other retailers. Usually, I do well on Apple with BB promos so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

That isn't a terrible number this early in the day so... we'll see.

I am not greatly impressed with their blurb for the novel which is unusual. It isn't bad just a bit blah. 🤷‍♀️

I liked the blurb. It was slanted toward enticing people who do not ordinarily read your subgenre. The cover is great to convey the subgenre, too. Crossed fingers it will do well for you. (I did not "buy" it because I don't want to wreck your also boughts.)

[JRTomlin]

You could be right about the blurb. Heaven knows they are experts.

ETA: After thinking about it, I think I may disagree with your point that it is good for the blurb to appeal to people who don't read the genre. If you look at the sales of say Bernard Cornwell or other top names in medieval HF, there are plenty of fans, and as you pointed out, when people who don't read the genre download the book (and almost certainly never buy the others in the series) all they really do is mess up the Also Bought list.

Fortunately, I don't think their blurb will turn off fans of the subgenre, so hopefully it will all work out.

#2 in the Kindle free store for what it's worth.

[JRTomlin]

Update: 18,300 downloads on Amazon, 3600 total at Kobo, Apple, and B&N. I haven't bothered to check Google yet. The largest number of 'others' was at Kobo surprisingly since they are usually beat by Apple. So That is about 21,900 total. It looks on track for the 25,000 that BB says is the average for free Historical Fiction. 👍


Sales of the series have paid for the promo and about $100 profit, so not bad. I have a couple of ads on smaller lists tomorrow to support it. The promotion runs through Saturday. I'll update further when it ends.

It is now at #3 in the Kindle Free list & #1 in free HF. So I am pretty happy with how this has gone, needless to say.

[LilyBLily]

Great results! 

[alhawke]

Congrats!   

[Pemry Janes]

Those are some very impressive results.

[JRTomlin]

Thanks!

It is now up to 25,000 downloads on all retailers. I have a couple of ads with smaller lists today so any past this will not necessarily be BB. At this point, the three other novels in the series have about $150 in sales over the cost of the promotion and sales on my other novels are up. So I definitely count this one as a success. 

[LilyBLily]

Now that Amazon has coughed up the dough for June sales, here's my final tally on those three BookBubs I had earlier this year. Net of $773 in ad costs, and bearing in mind that the third one somehow never went out to B&N fans, my profit was circa $900, or $300 per international BB. In my opinion, these ads were worth doing because: (1) They demonstrated which of my titles has the most appeal, (2) were profitable, (3) had a small tail, and (4) resulted in dozens of new ratings/reviews.

Good luck to all trying for BookBub ads or running them this month.



 

[JRTomlin]

Colour me gobsmacked. I just got another BB, this time US only. 

[LilyBLily]

Colour me gobsmacked. I just got another BB, this time US only. 

Woo-hoo! 

[JRTomlin]

Then the way things usually go I'll spend a year trying to get another one. I do find that stacking a number of smaller newsletters works well so it doesn't have to be completely feast or famine.

[notthatamanda]

Colour me gobsmacked. I just got another BB, this time US only. 

Good luck.

Did their prices go up again? I looked at Psychological Fiction and it was 900+. I don't remember it being that high.

[JRTomlin]

Historical Fiction has stayed the same for quite a while as well as I can remember, $760 US+int'l. They may have raised other genres though. HF is actually one of their more expensive genres and always has been, which would surprise a lot of people. Crossing my fingers that they don't decide to raise it even higher.

[Eric Thomson]

They raised the Scifi prices. Just went to submit my latest rejection and found they'd jacked it up by $21.

[JRTomlin]

I had to laugh. I was so sure they would turn this one down that I had already set up a small promotion with some other lists for a different novel, so now I'll run both this month. I don't usually do more than one promotion in a month. It does mean there aren't many to stack with the BB one.

[LilyBLily]

I had to laugh. I was so sure they would turn this one down that I had already set up a small promotion with some other lists for a different novel, so now I'll run both this month. I don't usually do more than one promotion in a month. It does mean there aren't many to stack with the BB one.

Is the timing wrong? Could you switch the title for the previously arranged promo? Sometimes they can accommodate you. In fact, given some of the communications I've received from promotion groups, there must be a lot of fancy dancing with what book is placed on what date.

[JRTomlin]

The timing is shorter than usual for BB. I wonder if they might have had a cancellation. But they probably could. They've always been cooperative about making changes, but rather than deal with it, I think I'll just go with it as is. There are two or three small lists I can still line up to stack with the BB.

[alhawke]

Got a Bookbub today!  It's intl for a witch book which is quite appropriate this upcoming month.
For those of you like me who've suffered with rejections, this is after 16 rejections since my last one a year ago. Never give up.

[Jeff Tanyard]

Congratulations, A.L.!   

[LilyBLily]

Woo-hoo!

[ashleycapes]

Nice