Any Indie musicans here?

[RiverRun]

Pretty sure there are some musicians on here, and I would be interested in hearing about anyone who has attempted selling music independently. My husband is a guitar player, and although I say it, he's very good. He's not really looking to earn a living from music, but hopes to record an album someday. He likes to follow his own muse, not the market. He knows about recording equipment and what-not, but what would you do with the music once it's recorded? When people were making good use of amazon ads, it seemed to me like a terrific opportunity for indie musicians also, to be able to target a specific musical niche. But has that ship already sailed for people just starting out? How do you find your listeners?

Any thoughts from anyone are welcome.

 

[Post-Crisis D]

Not a musician, at least not one anyone is going to want to listen to, but from what I have seen a good number seem to promote themselves through YouTube and sell their music on iTunes.

[PJ Post]

Tons of opportunity out there, but success is as much about social media as it is about the music. In many ways, it's just like selling books. Beyond a decent product, you have to engage with your audience/fans.

The simple analysis is that there are tons of amazing musicians out there, like an unbelievable number - it's crazy. But playing isn't the same as writing memorable songs. Turns out, it's kind of hard to do. So, yes, the market is super-saturated, but not nearly as much as it might appear.

The important bit is that the music business is changing. It's no longer album based. It's all about the single. Sure, down the road you package them just like a box set for additional revenue, but it's the singles that keep you relevant - and TikTok length hooks are even better.

It's just like writing. If he wants to do it - then he needs to just jump in and start uploading and sharing. But the most important part of social media engagement is that you have to be consistent. Don't start until you have the time for regular posts, like as close to daily as possible. Instagram is a great way for musicians to interact with fans and network with other musicians by posting little song snippets and general music stuff. YouTube is another great platform. But you have to have the songs available before you can market them. And make them available everywhere. Distrokid is a good start. It's like D2D for music.

I'd recommend Adam Ivy and Damian Keyes over on YouTube for music industry marketing advice. Go by the more recent videos, though. The Indie scene has changed so fast that some of the older advice is no longer relevant.

Oh, and just like anything these days...Branding and Messaging are everything.

[notthatamanda]

Not a musician, at least not one anyone is going to want to listen to, but from what I have seen a good number seem to promote themselves through YouTube and sell their music on iTunes.

My husband's friends use iTunes but they had a fanbase before the internet or even CDs. River, does he play out at all? Or will he when COVID is over? That's a way to introduce your music to new people. I have a friend who does original music and videos, next time we get together I'll ask her for some more details.

[Al Stevens]

I'm a retired jazz musician (among other things) and I've produced one CD and written a lot of songs that only I performed publicly. One of my tunes was picked up by a record producer--he heard it when I uploaded a track to my Facebook timeline--but he was unable to sell it to a performer. Turns out, he was selling to the country-western genre, and my work doesn't fit there.

It's a highly competitive field and it has to do with who you know. If I were going to re-enter it, I'd start by bugging the successful performers that I've worked with to see if they'd want to use my songs.

The only road to success as a performer I can think of is to keep booking gigs in venues where you might be discovered, keep exposing your work on social media, and hope for that one-in-a-zillion lucky break.

[PJ Post]

The only road to success as a performer I can think of is to keep booking gigs in venues where you might be discovered, keep exposing your work on social media, and hope for that one-in-a-zillion lucky break.

It's not that way anymore. The musicians I know are more concerned with cubicle income as opposed to becoming a rock star. And like self-publishers, they don't need a label or publishing deal or big break to get there. But they do need a lot of revenue streams, tons of social media exposure and a 1000 True Fans game plan. With that said, gigging will always be the backbone for any ambitious musician. The stage experience is - hands down - the best place to engage with would-be fans. For that matter, so is busking.

[Al Stevens]

It's not that way anymore. The musicians I know are more concerned with cubicle income as opposed to becoming a rock star.

A fallout of the pandemic. I expect things will revert somewhat when all the restrictions are lifted and people start going out again with regularity. Not there yet.

Cubicle income is nothing like live performances in front of live audiences. Unless you've been there, you might not understand. As writers, we work in solitude. As musicians, we work in front of approving people. Authors get royalties. Musicians get applause (and paychecks). Successful recordings lead to concert tours, and that's what most performers want. Or did want back when it was possible.

Plus, success doesn't require stardom. Many of us musicians made adequate livings without ever becoming famous.

[RiverRun]

Yeah, he has almost no interest in performing live. As I said, not really looking to hit it big, just looking for ways to find an audience for a project or two. Posting a video on Youtube is kind of like publishing a book on Amazon. Perhaps even worse. Its invisible. So I guess I just wanted some idea of what it might look like to go beyond that. I like PJ's idea of saving up songs and snippets to post. Probably should have thought of that on my own but it didn't occur to me!

[RiverRun]

I'm a retired jazz musician (among other things) and I've produced one CD and written a lot of songs that only I performed publicly. One of my tunes was picked up by a record producer--he heard it when I uploaded a track to my Facebook timeline--but he was unable to sell it to a performer. Turns out, he was selling to the country-western genre, and my work doesn't fit there.

It's a highly competitive field and it has to do with who you know. If I were going to re-enter it, I'd start by bugging the successful performers that I've worked with to see if they'd want to use my songs.

The only road to success as a performer I can think of is to keep booking gigs in venues where you might be discovered, keep exposing your work on social media, and hope for that one-in-a-zillion lucky break.

I played in jazz band in high school and college and now teach a (very small) jazz class to high school kids once a week. Jazz makes me happy:)

[notthatamanda]

Yeah, he has almost no interest in performing live. As I said, not really looking to hit it big, just looking for ways to find an audience for a project or two. Posting a video on Youtube is kind of like publishing a book on Amazon. Perhaps even worse. Its invisible. So I guess I just wanted some idea of what it might look like to go beyond that. I like PJ's idea of saving up songs and snippets to post. Probably should have thought of that on my own but it didn't occur to me!

You can get a youtube channel for free. My husband puts his band stuff up there, forwards it to his friends, some of them forward to their friends, he gets the occasional subscriber or comment who isn't someone he knows IRL.

[Post-Crisis D]

Posting a video on Youtube is kind of like publishing a book on Amazon. Perhaps even worse. Its invisible.

It would probably be best to post videos on a regular basis on a reliable schedule.  A new video every Tuesday, for example.  A number do covers as well as their own original songs.  I don't know about the licensing issues so that'd be something to check into.  Then ask people to like, share and subscribe.

With enough videos and views, he may qualify for revenue sharing.  That's extra income there too.

[notthatamanda]

You need a thousand subscribers on Youtube to get ad revenue AFAIK.

[RiverRun]

Tons of opportunity out there, but success is as much about social media as it is about the music. In many ways, it's just like selling books. Beyond a decent product, you have to engage with your audience/fans.

The simple analysis is that there are tons of amazing musicians out there, like an unbelievable number - it's crazy. But playing isn't the same as writing memorable songs. Turns out, it's kind of hard to do. So, yes, the market is super-saturated, but not nearly as much as it might appear.

The important bit is that the music business is changing. It's no longer album based. It's all about the single. Sure, down the road you package them just like a box set for additional revenue, but it's the singles that keep you relevant - and TikTok length hooks are even better.

It's just like writing. If he wants to do it - then he needs to just jump in and start uploading and sharing. But the most important part of social media engagement is that you have to be consistent. Don't start until you have the time for regular posts, like as close to daily as possible. Instagram is a great way for musicians to interact with fans and network with other musicians by posting little song snippets and general music stuff. YouTube is another great platform. But you have to have the songs available before you can market them. And make them available everywhere. Distrokid is a good start. It's like D2D for music.

I'd recommend Adam Ivy and Damian Keyes over on YouTube for music industry marketing advice. Go by the more recent videos, though. The Indie scene has changed so fast that some of the older advice is no longer relevant.

Oh, and just like anything these days...Branding and Messaging are everything.

Thank you for the suggested links. Never heard of Distrokid. Very interesting!

[Al Stevens]

It would probably be best to post videos on a regular basis on a reliable schedule.  A new video every Tuesday, for example.  A number do covers as well as their own original songs.  I don't know about the licensing issues so that'd be something to check into.  Then ask people to like, share and subscribe.

Recording and publshing copyrighted works of others involve "mechanical" and "sync" licenses. You can read about it here.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-what-you-need-to-know

[Dennis Chekalov]

If he can create music for videogames, it can be sold through Steam.

[PJ Post]

Cubicle income is nothing like live performances in front of live audiences. Unless you've been there, you might not understand. As writers, we work in solitude. As musicians, we work in front of approving people. Authors get royalties. Musicians get applause (and paychecks). Successful recordings lead to concert tours, and that's what most performers want. Or did want back when it was possible.

Plus, success doesn't require stardom. Many of us musicians made adequate livings without ever becoming famous.

Been there, done that - still doing it.

By cubicle income, I mean enough money to live on. And while the stage is a special place, it's not for everyone. Some prefer session work, for example. Tours, as we used to think of them, are rare at the Indie level because the number of venues has drastically declined. The days of jumping in a van and gigging from city to city are over. Now everything has to be booked way in advance. And with COVID, there's going to be way more bands than there are stages, so I suspect we're going to see some ugly exploitation there as this thing opens back up, especially at the bottom.

Recording and publishing copyrighted works of others involve "mechanical" and "sync" licenses. You can read about it here.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/posting-cover-songs-on-youtube-what-you-need-to-know

This.

But for social media, you don't need permission because it's not a commercial work. It's like publishing fan fiction. And, in the case of YouTube, the copyholder can monetize the video and claim the ad revenue if they so choose - without the channel's involvement.

___

He just needs to figure out what he wants to do, what he wants out of it - define his expectations - and then build a plan that makes him happy. But, Al is right, to be truly happy, creatives need an audience - and in 2021, that requires a strategy.

Check out the those two YouTube guys, they have some great recommendations - realistic ones. They're all about Indies.

[notthatamanda]

I disagree that you need to have a strategy and implement it. There's nothing wrong with just doing what you like and taking whatever income comes your way, remember the OP said he is not expecting to earn a living from it. My husband was getting paid to perform by the age of 10 (singing in a church choir) and played as a union musician in a symphony orchestra in high school. We did the bar gig thing for years and it was fun. He no longer cares about playing out. Precovid, his band did one or two benefits a year and he was fine with that, but the hours of setting up for a gig were way longer than the time actually spent in front of the audience. He is truly happy without it and turns down paying gigs all the time (again pre covid although one last week for a wedding. You can make money playing at weddings). He'd much rather be in the guitar player's basement working on songs than playing in front of an audience. Making a living from music (outside from hitting it big with your own stuff) means playing what the venue owner wants you to play and he's done being a human jukebox.

[PJ Post]

I disagree that you need to have a strategy and implement it. There's nothing wrong with just doing what you like and taking whatever income comes your way, remember the OP said he is not expecting to earn a living from it. My husband was getting paid to perform by the age of 10 (singing in a church choir) and played as a union musician in a symphony orchestra in high school. We did the bar gig thing for years and it was fun. He no longer cares about playing out. Precovid, his band did one or two benefits a year and he was fine with that, but the hours of setting up for a gig were way longer than the time actually spent in front of the audience. He is truly happy without it and turns down paying gigs all the time (again pre covid although one last week for a wedding. You can make money playing at weddings). He'd much rather be in the guitar player's basement working on songs than playing in front of an audience. Making a living from music (outside from hitting it big with your own stuff) means playing what the venue owner wants you to play and he's done being a human jukebox.

By 'audience', I meant people to appreciate your work. And without a strategy you'll never reach anyone, no matter how small the niche. But a strategy doesn't need to be some super intricate, time consuming commitment. It might just be posting a 30 second snippet every other day on Instagram (Instagram is a big music platform for some reason), maybe talking a bit about music a few other days, and then post a song every few weeks on the various platforms - whatever works. That is if the goal is getting noticed as a musician or songwriter. The operative phrase being 'getting noticed'.

Also, making a living from music has changed from the human jukebox days. Lots of folks are doing it playing all original music. It's a new world, and it's pretty cool. 

[notthatamanda]

Well we will have to disagree on that. I think creative fulfillment can come from the process.

[PJ Post]

Well we will have to disagree on that. I think creative fulfillment can come from the process.

Oh no, I agree. I spend hours screwing with tone and different instruments just to explore the sounds themselves. For example, the audience can't tell the difference between a Telecaster and a Les Paul - but guitarists can, and it matters to us. It's all very personal. Same goes for writing songs. Validation aside, I think most artists fall into this mindset - at some point, the reward is in the work itself.

But the OP was asking about how her husband might connect with a market.