Facebook or Google ads?

[The Bass Bagwhan]

I'm on the cusp of starting some advertising for my new website endeavour, selling audiobooks direct, and the challenge is driving traffic straight to that website landing page. I was thinking Facebook, but only because I dabbled with it before and there's some familiarity, but another thread mentioned Google ads.
These days, for a starting-from-scratch campaign that has no Amazon involvement, what do you recommend? Listener demographic is horror/paranormal, so maybe 25-50 age more than older.

[idontknowyet]

Have you tried the free methods first.

Book funnel quite often has group promos for audio books. I'm not sure if story orgin does too but its worth checking out.
There are also a few audio book groups on facebook.

[LilyBLily]

Do you send your Google ads to your website or directly to stores? I started to create an ad and then it looked as if I'd have to direct people to my website, which for several reasons isn't a good fit for getting instant sales.

For several days, Facebook kept offering me a $20 bonus if I'd place an ad. Now that I'm ready to do it, that offer has vanished.

 

[The Bass Bagwhan]

Have you tried the free methods first.

Book funnel quite often has group promos for audio books. I'm not sure if story orgin does too but its worth checking out.
There are also a few audio book groups on facebook.

Actually, I haven't looked at free methods mainly because in the past -- the distant past at that -- you had to be a member of certain Facebook groups for a while, and contribute regularly, before you could post any promo's. I get that, it's fine, but impracticle for what I'm doing. Plus, when you do qualify, your posts tend to get pushed down very quickly. I haven't looked at Book Funnel...

Both FB and Google Ads are viable methods.

Market wise, FB demographics (age & location) tend to be older (55+). Google Ads reach all age groups and locations.

Cost wise, you can control the PPC on either. For me, Google Ads is around 8 - 10c per click, FB is 25-35c per click.

Conversions are better on Google Ads for me, but FB used to be very good for me as well. Something changed with FB.

Analytics are better on Google than FB. Google show me which images, tags and long description work best. They have better analytic tools around conversions. My website tells me where the buyer went once they hit my website, so I can get a half decent view of the buyer journey. It's not perfect but it's better than AMS or BookBub.

Ease of use is different. FB is easier to set up. Google is messier but they do have online in-person support should you need it.

FB have some other wrinkles like being able to boost posts rather than just run straight up ads. I've used boosting a lot in the past, but I have to admit my last boosts were useless.

FB let you use video in posts and you can boost them. I believe Google let you use video as well, which might be a good tool for selling audio - you can use an extract of the audio set over a video (you can lease video footage).

I've run with Google for over a year now and I ran another test on FB a few months ago and it didn't go well. I shut down the campaign with 4 days, it was that useless. I redirected the spend to Google Ads and I didn't regret it.

Tweek, this is a wealth of information and I'm really grateful. On the one hand, I guess it's not wise to put all your eggs in one basket, but on the other I think it's better to fully understand and utilise one system completely, rather than dabble in several, and based on your experience it looks like Google Ads might be best. That's slightly reinforced by my recent interactions with Reddit where subscribers tend to be younger, I think, and looking for new ideas. Plus my (30 year old) nieces and nephews hold a certain disdain for Facebook these days as out-of-date and out-of-touch. My books and writing do appeal to all ages (above YA) and it seems that the not-so-old demographic have moved away from Facebook. Time to put some homework into the idea. Oh, and I do have Jetpack on my website, so stats are available.
Thanks a lot!

[LilyBLily]

I write for older women, I mean a lot older, like in their fifties or sixties. Facebook may be the natural place for my ads, but a look last night showed me yet again that it remains a labyrinthine system that according to my records has never made me a significant profit. However, armed with the notes from yet another free FB class, I will try again.

I am intrigued about Google Ads simply because Google is a much larger pool, although it appears to be a similarly complex learning curve. (Learning something new is supposed to be good for the brain, right?) My website has all the links to all the stores, but they do say that every click means a significant dropoff, so that's an issue right away. 

[The Bass Bagwhan]

Maybe I've got this completely wrong, but I'll give it a shot...
Google ads are triggered when someone's search criteria match the target audience of your ad campaign. So if someone Google's "audiobook", then your audiobook advert should lurk somewhere among their search results.

Facebook, on the other hand, matches your advertising target audience against a more tenuous demographic built up from Liking pages and posts, visiting pages ... considering that some people Like posts with an almost reflex action without necessarily being too interested in the subject, they can be added to your target audience by little more than a mindless click on a cute cat picture.

So Google ads offer a stronger "needs matched to provider" sort of connection. They place an advert in front of someone who is at least in some way looking for a similar product or interest. Rather than someone who Facebook is guessing has an interest, based on posts they Like.

Is that roughly how it works?

[The Bass Bagwhan]

[/quote]

I used to say the more clicks the less sales, but I think buyer behavior has changed. People don't seem to mind clicking to a website, then to the buying site. Maybe it's because I have useful content on the webpage (for example, they can see the entire series blurbs and images on one page). I get a lot of click throughs to the webpage and onto the specific sites. Obviously they don't all convert to sales, but I get enough consistent sales to know people are buying on two clicks.
[/quote]

More great info, Tweak. Especially the Search versus Display Ads. I don't suppose, without giving away too many secrets, you can reveal a kind of monthly cost for Google ads to achieve reasonable traffic to one website page? I realsie a lot of variables are involved ... Thanks again!

[LilyBLily]

150-300 per month. Mostly 150 (5 a day)

That's a budget I can live with.

Google Ads sensed a potential customer since I started going through the ads manager but did not complete it. They've sent me the promise of a $100 ad credit once I spend $50. I hope that promise won't vanish like Facebook's offers.

[idontknowyet]

150-300 per month. Mostly 150 (5 a day)

can you have google ads send traffic directly to your amazon pg or does it have to go to your website. i havent made a website yet so i was hoping to avoid that effort for a while

[R. C.]

...
I've never sent anyone to an Amazon page through Google Ads but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
...

I do this all the time and I apply the full Amazon Affiliate link. 

Example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095137CMT?&linkCode=ll1&tag=rcducantlin06-20&linkId=897c237d4d90f4a28f5d8b5feb17015c&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

The direct link works but the short affiliate link is rejected.

R.C.

[LilyBLily]

More questions about Google Ads, since so far I haven't found any good tutorials for selling books.

There are three headlines. Google suggests putting the title in the first. Where is the best spot? In which one do you say this product is an ebook?

Then there are two spots for a description. It looks as if the first should be a very short, hooky blurb. What should the second one be?

How does one integrate a link in this? Or does that come next with a cover?

Sorry these are so basic.

I've found some ads by googling "western romance ebook," which leads me to "Romance novels/western" and many images. When I click one of the images, I don't see a google ad. Instead, I see typical Google listings to the book on Amazon and other venues and also links to the book listed on Goodreads, the author's website, a YouTube trailer she did for that book, and so on. No specific Google ad.

Unless the sidebar is the ad?
It has two headlines, one of which is two lines long, both of which say "novel." The title and subtitle and then "Novel by Author Name."
Then it has numerical ratings.
Then it asks to vote up or down whether I liked this book.
Then it has a generic two-line summary of the series and a very short blurb all together.
Then a link to Google Books.   
Then original pub date, author name, genre, a link for a long preview (51 pages of 247 total is long, I think) including a postage stamp size cover image
Then a section called "Get Book" with links to an audiobook, to Google Play, and to Scribd, and a place to search for a library to borrow it from.
Then it asks me to assign the book a star rating and write a review.

Is this a Google Ad?

Sorry to belabor what may seem obvious. I note that googling "sweet contemporary romance western book" did not get me the same results but "cowboy romance novels" (suggested by Google) did. 

Edited to add: I asked David Gaughran and he said Google just isn't a good place to advertise books. Hmm...

[R. C.]

David Gaughran is wrong.
...
It's unlikely you'll ever see your ad served on a webpage you just happen to be on.

Searching for romance books via the search bar will likely give you sponsored ads which appear at the top and bottom (& possibly a sidebar) on the Google results page.

I don't use the search bar ads. I only use display ads.

...

David Gaughran is wrong.  Agreed, relative to Google ADs and his BookBub advice was good but has not adjusted for the higher cost requirements.

It's unlikely you'll ever see your ad served on a webpage you just happen to be on. I think there is an experience problem buried in this question/statement.  If you want to see what is a real, honest, search result, no matter what browser you use or what you are searching for, use an anonymous browser.  I often use Epic. Open your preferred browser, and an anonymized browser side-by-side. Run the same search is both browsers, you might be shocked at the results. This applies, particularly well, when searching for keywords and synergistic data.

I don't use the search bar ads. I only use display ads. Search ADs WILL give you impressions and some clicks, but is unwieldy and not good for ebooks.  Agreed, well designed targeted display ADs will generate interest.

Now, I am off to re-learn how to write AD copy...

Cheers,
R.C.
 

[alhawke]

I'm intrigued and considering trying Google ads with $5 per day. I have my website and a book page. Do you guys advise I just send people to my book page?  https://alhawke.com/books/  Will it work. The problem is it's not a direct link and all the promos and ad companies are always telling us that buyers want the least amount of effort.

Or should I set it to home page? Lilly, you were asking this^^ Did you decide?

And I didn't see how to designate the type of ad. It seems it all just goes by google searches?

[LilyBLily]

I was going to do one ad to my website landing page for the book and one to Amazon directly, since the book is in KU. However, I am currently mentally unable to deal with arguing with Google over what belongs in a Google ad. Too much going on in my life at the moment.

[The Bass Bagwhan]

I'm intrigued and considering trying Google ads with $5 per day. I have my website and a book page. Do you guys advise I just send people to my book page?  https://alhawke.com/books/  Will it work. The problem is it's not a direct link and all the promos and ad companies are always telling us that buyers want the least amount of effort.

Or should I set it to home page? Lilly, you were asking this^^ Did you decide?

And I didn't see how to designate the type of ad. It seems it all just goes by google searches?

I still prefer the idea of creating a landing page on your website, with links to buying the book(s), because there you completely control the message and don't have other books being promoted next to yours. Yes, that doesn't provide the "one click buy", but with a good link it's close.

I can't recall exactly where you select the type of ads, but once you're in Google Ads the Help function has lots of short videos on how to do both types. Either type should quickly show you when that's done.

For what it's worth, my first ad took three weeks to really start reaching people. It hasn't been successful because I need to fix the target (I know where I'm going wrong), so I'm not unhappy and the learning curve was great. I recommend you work on the headlines and descriptions outside of the GUI so you don't feel pressured. But I can't recall the character limits for both. (90 and 210?)

[alhawke]

I was going to do one ad to my website landing page for the book and one to Amazon directly, since the book is in KU. However, I am currently mentally unable to deal with arguing with Google over what belongs in a Google ad. Too much going on in my life at the moment.

I hear you. It seemed like a time suck before I checked it out, but I was shocked at how remarkably simple it seemed for me to launch one. But running through it for 30min and rushing an ad is probably not the way to do it. I probably should check out some how to videos and see how others have done it.

I still prefer the idea of creating a landing page on your website, with links to buying the book(s), because there you completely control the message and don't have other books being promoted next to yours. Yes, that doesn't provide the "one click buy", but with a good link it's close.

I have my book page but it's not specifically a buy link page. I could easily create one though. That's something to think about.

[alhawke]

I'm up on google search ads. I'll see how it goes and report back to you. I have the ads set at $5 per day. The ads go straight to my website book page. I revamped my book page so that it shows the covers and quick blurb and an easy list to quickly scroll through. Will it lead to riches? We'll see. 
(tip: After two days of the ad setup languishing, Google offered me the same offer as LilyBLily above , so I get $100 after spending $50 ).

[oganalp]

I have been trying FB ads for a month now. For my genre (space opera), they worked really well. Still, the problem was finding proper author targeting as almost no indie author (and some traditional) in my field are available as a demographic target.

For example, FB can find Peter Hamilton as a target but cannot find Iain Banks, so I cannot target that interest group.

Another thing is, FB is very aggressive in taking your money. In that sense, I found much better success with an Amazon+KDPRocket keyword/ASIN combo (like $15 total spent brings around $100 kind of).

I will try Google Display Ads now. Thanks for the suggestions and insight!

[alhawke]

Google Ad update:
My ad's up this week. 82 clicks, $23 spent. So far I think I can attribute three sales = $12 (my series). The problem is that it's tough to match because, like BookBub, you can't be sure if you're getting sales from other methods. If it's from Google as I suspect, that's around 50% back which isn't half bad.

The problem with Google ads is it goes to my website, not a direct retailer site (as mentioned above). If I had only one or two books and was completely new, I think it'd be harder to make worth it, but with my developing selection of novels, it helps for publicity and sales.

So I retooled my webpage and turned it into a "store" of sorts. I also already had an "ad" pic that was designed by a cover designer and I think that helps push readers to my witch books. I even wrote up a quick description yesterday for clarity (btw, I'm open to critiques for my novel "store" page. This is all one big experiment for me).

Let me know if you guys are interested in me updating. So far I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting anything at all, really.

[alhawke]

On your website, the buyer clicks once to get to your website, clicks again to select the series, clicks again to choose the buying site, clicks to buy the book. That's 4 clicks to buy.

Thanks for taking a look! Right now my ad is a general ad for my authorship. I'll have to play around with direct buy. I see the problem with click ...click..click.click. This is the big disadvantage versus the other direct ad types (AMS, BB, etc), I think.

[Pemry Janes]

I've been messing with Google ads lately.

At first I made several mistakes including not having any images, but I fixed that. The ad directs right to the amazon page of the book, I figured seeing right away other people had rated the book would help convince people to buy but it hasn't worked out. After several weeks, I might contribute one sale to the ads.

I do notice that the algorithm is getting better at click-through rates and the price per click. I'm going to try and see if linking to my book on my own website helps.

[alhawke]

I'm at around $100 spent. $100 was given away by Google as promotion so I've got $50 more "chips" to gamble.

I have no idea how effective this is. I love the fact that it's advertising my website but it's costing me too much money. I added Brazil to experiment because I had a huge "sale" of freebies there with my free promotion for some unknown reason last month. I've had no sales in Brazil after spending $20.

I'm dropping down the bid to $2.50 per day. I might keep it going at a very low cost like this, but I need to budget. My take so far is Google ads are fantastic for author brand/website, not so great for sales. Bookbub ads remains supreme for me. Or I still don't get it. I'll add more info as it comes.

Incidentally, just to vent, my website was down for two days and I lost another $10 for the ad clicking to the ether. Just to vent.

[Lorri Moulton]

Google Ad update:
My ad's up this week. 82 clicks, $23 spent. So far I think I can attribute three sales = $12 (my series). The problem is that it's tough to match because, like BookBub, you can't be sure if you're getting sales from other methods. If it's from Google as I suspect, that's around 50% back which isn't half bad.

The problem with Google ads is it goes to my website, not a direct retailer site (as mentioned above). If I had only one or two books and was completely new, I think it'd be harder to make worth it, but with my developing selection of novels, it helps for publicity and sales.

So I retooled my webpage and turned it into a "store" of sorts. I also already had an "ad" pic that was designed by a cover designer and I think that helps push readers to my witch books. I even wrote up a quick description yesterday for clarity (btw, I'm open to critiques for my novel "store" page. This is all one big experiment for me).

Let me know if you guys are interested in me updating. So far I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting anything at all, really.

I think your website looks great!  Have you considered 'buy buttons' for the major retailers (and one for B2R for everyone else)?  It saves one click, so buyers can hit the retailers on your page rather than going to B2R, then the major retailers.

[alhawke]

Have you considered 'buy buttons' for the major retailers (and one for B2R for everyone else)?  It saves one click, so buyers can hit the retailers on your page rather than going to B2R, then the major retailers.

No ... Not until now. 
Another project for this weekend. 
Thanks!

[LilyBLily]

Trying again to get my first Google ad going.

There was talk above about using a longer Amazon affiliate link because the short one was rejected. I'm not seeing how to get one by delving into the Amazon Associates section. Is it merely a matter of getting the short link, using it on Amazon, and then copying the longer version that appears in the Amazon search bar? That's a very long URL.

[LilyBLily]

I spent about two hours creating a new Google ad today after having a phone chat with a helpful rep who did help me fully enable my first ad but said I could not copy that first ad.

Then the internet went away and I lost every bit of the new ad. Can't find it.

Conducted a desperate search for a Drafts folder and discovered that Drafts apparently are copies of existing ads.

Hmm. 

[alhawke]

I spent about two hours creating a new Google ad today after having a phone chat with a helpful rep who did help me fully enable my first ad but said I could not copy that first ad.

Then the internet went away and I lost every bit of the new ad. Can't find it.

Ugh. How awful. I hope you can get things back up. Let me know or PM me if there's any particular snag. I've always been good at working computers, though I can't say I'm doing the Google ads themselves right regarding targets, keywords, etc.

[alhawke]

Quick Google ads update: My Googleplay directed ads are failing. No sale yet. I've only spent about $10. I'll take it down if it doesn't move a book after $20. They're set at $2 per day. This may seem small, but it adds up monthly. (thing is, I don't sell a lot in GooglePlay so it might not be Google ads fault).

My main ad that directs to my website continues to get a lot of clicks. I really like the extra visibility this gives to my website and brand. That alone is worth something. But I still struggle to determine if I'm getting direct sales from the Google ad or if it's from elsewhere.

[LilyBLily]

I'm planning to blow through the $100 Google offered as an incentive but only have less than two weeks now to use it, so later today I will try again. First, though, I'll try some YouTube videos and hope they explain things better. My brain cells must be doubling over this. "Learn new things," they say. Yeah.

 

[alhawke]

I'm planning to blow through the $100 Google offered as an incentive but only have less than two weeks now to use it, so later today I will try again. First, though, I'll try some YouTube videos and hope they explain things better. My brain cells must be doubling over this. "Learn new things," they say. Yeah.

 

They only gave us two weeks? Didn't know that. I probably blew through it in two weeks anyway. (laughing so hard I could cry).
Good luck 

[LilyBLily]

I'm planning to blow through the $100 Google offered as an incentive but only have less than two weeks now to use it, so later today I will try again. First, though, I'll try some YouTube videos and hope they explain things better. My brain cells must be doubling over this. "Learn new things," they say. Yeah.

 

They only gave us two weeks? Didn't know that. I probably blew through it in two weeks anyway. (laughing so hard I could cry).
Good luck 

I redeemed it officially several weeks ago and then didn't follow up on why the ad wasn't running until yesterday. I think the coupon was good for two months. I expect the budget to be blown by the end of this weekend if I can devote the brain power to creating a new ad. This time, I'll do all the creative offline and then just load it on the Google Ads site. Maybe sobbing while I attempt to do so.

[LilyBLily]

Google is telling me I need more "assets" to my ad. What is considered a useful asset?

What I've done so far is create vignettes of the book's cover. Am I supposed to come up with completely random romantic scenes? Unrelated ones? Covers of the other books in the series?

[LilyBLily]

I just paused my Google ad after 34k impressions, $111 spent, and 1 conversion. Tomorrow maybe I'll call Google and ask a rep if those were bad numbers. Looks like it to me.

Because of timing, I believe Google will knock off $37 of the cost, leaving me with $74 spent--and nothing much to show for it. It took several minutes even to find the place on the Google Ads dashboard where I could see how much it had spent. Click, click, click. Another minute to find my way back to where I could pause the ad. Yet another learning curve to master--but can I afford to keep on experimenting?