Amazon paperback spines issue (Split from Paperback backs)

[TimothyEllis]

Anyone noticed a spine issue lately?

My last few, and especially my last 2, have the spine print well out of position to the right.

The layout is perfectly in the guide area on the template, but the proof spine looks terrible.

They changed the templates recently, to something much higher definition, and since then, the spines have been getting worse.

Anyone else seeing this?

[Post-Crisis D]

If they're going to reject a cover design for the bleed being 0.033" too small, they darn well better nail the spine position when they print and bind.

[LilyBLily]

KDP claims it gives itself leeway on spine position. In my opinion, too much leeway. I have plenty of copy and often a vignette on my spine, but I try never to have a hard line where the folds should be because kdp can too easily miss being exact. If kdp were to significantly mess up the spine, I'd call them on it, but I haven't had any issues lately. Copy on the spine should float within it rather than take up every single millimeter.

To be fair, many other printers are just as bad and always have been. The smart thing is to make sure on our side that the basic design elements are unlikely to need the precision we aren't really paying for.

[TimothyEllis]

I put in a complaint about mine, with images. No response yet.

The thing which gets me though is, they make you do a wrap around cover, but for printing, seem to be deconstructing it, and extracting the spine to print separately. That's the only way it can be so far out without the back section also being out. And the back is perfect, like the front.

It's actually weird how wrong the spine is when the rest is perfect.

[Post-Crisis D]

The thing which gets me though is, they make you do a wrap around cover, but for printing, seem to be deconstructing it, and extracting the spine to print separately. That's the only way it can be so far out without the back section also being out. And the back is perfect, like the front.

Do you have a photo?  Because there would be no reason to even try to print the spine separately.  The cover would be printed on a flat sheet all in one pass.

[TimothyEllis]

The Photoshop image and actual spines.

[Post-Crisis D]

What does the printed front of Unifier look like?

[TimothyEllis]

What does the printed front of Unifier look like?

It looks perfect to me. So does the back. I'll take a full image and post it in a while. Other things to do first.

[TimothyEllis]

Just had another look.

The entire cover is right shifted, which makes more sense now.

Looks like they cut off 3mm on the right side of the cover.

[TimothyEllis]

I had a reply from KDP.

With all books printed on demand, a small amount of variance in a given book is expected.

Universally, in printing, there is an allowable amount of variance in shift and trim that could occur during production. Our allowable variance is 0.125" (3.2mm). This shift does not render your copies defective.

They may not be defective, but it looks really bad on the shelf.

If they're going to reject a cover design for the bleed being 0.033" too small, they darn well better nail the spine position when they print and bind.

That makes a mockery of how tolerant they want yours.

Afterthought: But it does explain why they won't allow a spine on the low number of pages books, since that 'allowable variance' might put the spine on the front cover.

[Post-Crisis D]

If they're going to reject a cover design for the bleed being 0.033" too small, they darn well better nail the spine position when they print and bind.

That makes a mockery of how tolerant they want yours.

Well, if they allow for a 0.125" variance, it's possible that tiny white strip of 0.0165" at the edge of the bleed (which is 0.125") could show up.  But, wow, that seems like they have a wide variance.

Afterthought: But it does explain why they won't allow a spine on the low number of pages books, since that 'allowable variance' might put the spine on the front cover.

You can see how the type bounces around a bit.  That's a 0.1354" (slightly more than 1/8") spine with 7.5 pt. type (about 5/64" tall) which leaves a margin of about 1/32" top and bottom.  I don't remember the tolerance offhand, but I know if the digital press is 1/8" off, I stop and recalibrate.

[alhawke]

Something to be aware of--but not much you can do--is that the books can be printed in error even if your final book is perfect. This messes up the whole proofread thing. I've had proofread versions that were cut with the final book being off-size. I've had some book covers delivered too dark; some too bright. The errors worry me for my readers because I'm sure some of them get errors I'm not aware of. But, like I said at the start, there's nothing I can do about it. It's happened with both Ingram and Amazon.

My main point is that spine errors or typography could be off with just the one copy delivered to you. The only way to know would be to get multiple copies. But it's already expensive ordering paperbacks as is, isn't it? And some writers don't even proof their paper copies.

[TimothyEllis]

My main point is that spine errors or typography could be off with just the one copy delivered to you. The only way to know would be to get multiple copies. But it's already expensive ordering paperbacks as is, isn't it? And some writers don't even proof their paper copies.

I goofed on the cover of Old Magic 2, which was very thin.

The second one was offset the exact same amount, even though I'd changed the spine, and made it wider.

My last 11 proofs have all got the exact same 3mm to the right.

So it's not a random glitch.

But it could just be happening to proofs. If so, I guess I'll never know unless I order an author copy for something, which I'm not planning on.

[Post-Crisis D]

Something to be aware of--but not much you can do--is that the books can be printed in error even if your final book is perfect.

Yes, but there should be some quality control.

But, by the sounds of it, Amazon's attitude is like, oops, this book sucks, oh well, variance, blah, blah, blah, no refunds!

[TimothyEllis]

Something to be aware of--but not much you can do--is that the books can be printed in error even if your final book is perfect.

Yes, but there should be some quality control.

But, by the sounds of it, Amazon's attitude is like, oops, this book sucks, oh well, variance, blah, blah, blah, no refunds!

Yeah. I told them that was unacceptable and unprofessional, and the maximum variance should be only 1mm.

Waiting for silence to come back.

[Post-Crisis D]

Why is it that all the traditionally published mass market paperbacks I've bought all have the spine perfectly centered? 

1) Quality control.

2) For a traditional publisher, the book is their product.  If it looks like crud, people aren't buying.  Also, they gained their experience in the days where the product was seen before it was purchased.  Now, for Amazon, Amazon is no longer about books.  The book is a sideline and people buy before they actually see the book.  If it looks like crud, people don't know until they receive it.  Unknown what percentage complain and what percentage tolerate a badly constructed book.

The thing that really stinks is that a portion of people buying paperbacks are buying because they liked the eBook so much they wanted a paper copy on their shelves.  Those buyers want a quality book and what Amazon appears to be delivering is a mediocre product.

[LilyBLily]

Why is it that all the traditionally published mass market paperbacks I've bought all have the spine perfectly centered? 

They don't. I've definitely seen and bought paperbacks with misaligned spines.

However, because a trad publisher is a major repeat customer, the grunts doing the print setup are warned to be more careful. If an entire run of, say 15k books looks bad, the printer might have to eat it. If one or even twenty of ours look bad, the printer does not have to care.

As I said above, Amazon's claimed leeway is ridiculously large.

[TimothyEllis]

I split this off into it's own Amazon area thread, as I think this needs to be in public.

If anyone has a problem with their post being moved from private to public, let me know.

[writeway]

I stopped using KDP for print right after they changed from Createspace. I use Draft2Digital and have NO complaints. The print from KDP lately has been horrible. All on Facebook authors have been posting their shoddy paperbacks. One woman's covers were faded and she held two copies of the same book that KDP printed and one cover was so faded it looked like a totally different book from the other. Another guy got his copies and they had dirt on them! One lady's paperbacks were all smudged on the covers and covered with fingerprints. Another author had duplicate pages and pages missing. This is inexcusable! With all the money Amazon has, they can't do any quality control and get people to check out the books before they print them or they don't give a damn? Just think of how many bad copies are going out to customers looking like this! I'd be pissed. This hurts the author's brand and makes them look bad while Amazon just sits back. I'm never going back to KDP Print. It's ridiculous.

[alhawke]

I stopped using KDP for print right after they changed from Createspace. I use Draft2Digital and have NO complaints. The print from KDP lately has been horrible. All on Facebook authors have been posting their shoddy paperbacks.

Thanks for this, Writeway. I'll keep an eye on this and consider a change if things worsen for my books.

I think D2D outsources Ingram, so essentially, your saying Ingram's printing better. Most of the time I've seen this with Ingram print, but occasionally it's the other way around.

[Post-Crisis D]

Received my author copy today.  The title is off-center towards the left on mine.

The spine on mine is wide enough that a lot of people probably wouldn't even notice, but if it were a more normal-sized spine, it would definitely stick out.