Author Topic: Is it allowed now?  (Read 6496 times)

Dennis Chekalov

Is it allowed now?
« on: December 15, 2019, 02:14:51 PM »
I found this topic on the other forum, and I would like to know your opinion. It's about dialogue formatting. Not sure if I may post it here, so there's a link to a picture: https://i.imgur.com/kTesuHQ.png According to the topic starter, it's from a bestselling author.

I thought that the proper formatting is:

I entered the room. "Where's John?"
Mary shrugged. "The crocodile ate him this morning."

In the example:

I entered the room.
"Where's John?"
Mary shrugged.
"The crocodile ate him this morning."

Is it allowed now? I would say, it's difficult to understand who is saying what.
And what about this:

I entered the room.
"Where's John?" I asked.
Mary shrugged.
"The crocodile," she pointed at the window. "The crocodile ate him this morning."

There's no ambiguity here, but the action tags and the dialogue lines are still in separate paragraphs. So, is such formatting allowed?

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 02:25:49 PM »
I write like that these days.

I admit the example is difficult to understand who is talking, but thats part of the craft to make sure the reader knows, or can at least work it out.

I find writing first person makes this easier.

I've developed a dislike of mixing text and dialogue in the same paragraph. It's something which developed over a few years, independently of my writing, and then simply flowed into my writing. The only time I do mix it, is when comment is needed between a continuing sentence said by the same person.

Personally, I find it flows the reader better, when the 2 are separated. Otherwise you can get bogged down in huge paragraphs.

Short snappy dialog with separate observations between the talk, makes for a fast conversation when reading. And I prefer that.
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LilyBLily

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 02:29:46 PM »
I've used multiple paragraphs by the same person in a row for dramatic emphasis, but I put in a lot of tags to make sure people know who is talking.

Back in the day, when dialogue didn't have to be so short and snappy, we'd see a full paragraph with no end quote marks and then another full paragraph by the same person, with no tags in between, just a set of beginning quote marks on the second paragraph. Readers of indie books don't seem to remember that's perfectly normal, and they have posted reviews claiming errors, so I don't use the older style anymore.

Anything is allowed--because who is to stop us?--but some things aren't a good idea, like the present tense for everything, or not using quote marks at all, and other nonsense. 
 
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Dennis Chekalov

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2019, 02:32:07 PM »
Thank you. This is very useful to know.

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 02:36:17 PM »
I also use it as a form of tagging.

Dialog.
Comment mentioning the person who just spoke.

eg:

"You're an arsehole!"
Amanda sounded pissed.
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Lynn

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 02:56:52 PM »
It can read snappy, or it can read as disjointed. Personally, I find it disjointed more often than not. I don't think it helps the reading at all.

If I have to think to figure out who said what, the author responsible for that is not doing their job.
Don't rush me.
 
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elleoco

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 02:59:44 PM »
I entered the room.
"Where's John?" I asked.
Mary shrugged.
"The crocodile," she pointed at the window. "The crocodile ate him this morning."

Yes, I've had trouble with deciding who's talking because of the kind of formatting pointed out in the original quote, but forgive me for being picky, the above would solve the problem (although your first example is much better) and work if it were properly punctuated, but, it isn't. "She pointed at the window" needs to be a separate sentence. It's not a dialog tag.

JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 03:07:31 PM »
I would slam that back on the shelf it would make your head spin and would never do it myself. Whether it is 'allowed' now or not, I couldn't say. But I hated it and thought it would be impossible for follow in a length passage.

I also use it as a form of tagging.

Dialog.
Comment mentioning the person who just spoke.

eg:

"You're an arsehole!"
Amanda sounded pissed.
If Amanda calls someone an arsehole, I would say it is redundant to say she 'sounds pissed'. My own feeling is that if I need to comment about how the person sounds, I need to rewrite the dialogue or possibly use some narrative such as 'she clenched her fists' rather than explain it to the reader.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 03:12:32 PM by JRTomlin »
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 03:13:39 PM »
I've used multiple paragraphs by the same person in a row for dramatic emphasis, but I put in a lot of tags to make sure people know who is talking.

Back in the day, when dialogue didn't have to be so short and snappy, we'd see a full paragraph with no end quote marks and then another full paragraph by the same person, with no tags in between, just a set of beginning quote marks on the second paragraph. Readers of indie books don't seem to remember that's perfectly normal, and they have posted reviews claiming errors, so I don't use the older style anymore.

Anything is allowed--because who is to stop us?--but some things aren't a good idea, like the present tense for everything, or not using quote marks at all, and other nonsense.
I still do that but maybe historical fiction fans are not as demanding for 'snappy' dialogue.
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 03:14:15 PM »
I entered the room.
"Where's John?" I asked.
Mary shrugged.
"The crocodile," she pointed at the window. "The crocodile ate him this morning."

Yes, I've had trouble with deciding who's talking because of the kind of formatting pointed out in the original quote, but forgive me for being picky, the above would solve the problem (although your first example is much better) and work if it were properly punctuated, but, it isn't. "She pointed at the window" needs to be a separate sentence. It's not a dialog tag.

I'd agree with that.

I found Mary in the sunroom, and gave her a stern look.
"Where's John?"
Mary shrugged, and pointed to the window.
"The crocodile ate him this morning."
"sh*t!"
"No, but lot's of blood."
I looked at her like she'd gone mad. She shrugged again.
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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2019, 03:17:18 PM »
If Amanda calls someone an arsehole, I would say it is redundant to say she 'sounds pissed'. My own feeling is that if I need to comment about how the person sounds, I need to rewrite the dialogue or possibly use some narrative such as 'she clenched her fists' rather than explain it to the reader.

It depends on if Amanda calls people arseholes on a regular basis without being pissed. If it's normal for her, the comment is appropriate. If not, then it's redundant.

It also depends on the first person, and if they are stating the obvious just to be obvious, or commenting to highlight the obvious.

And it probably also depends on what comes next.

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JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2019, 03:22:19 PM »
But if she regularly calls someone an arsehole then to make her sound pissed, I'd use something else in the sentence - something that makes her sound pissed. I honestly feel that I shouldn't have to tell the reader something they should gather without an explanation. Maybe that's just me.
 
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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 03:25:22 PM »
But if she regularly calls someone an arsehole then to make her sound pissed, I'd use something else in the sentence - something that makes her sound pissed. I honestly feel that I shouldn't have to tell the reader something they should gather without an explanation. Maybe that's just me.

I tell the reader whatever enters the MC's head. Benefit of 1st person narration. I'll also break the rules on a lot of things, simply because it's how the MC thinks.

I'll add I'm not writing literature.
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Simon Haynes

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 06:14:02 PM »
My first thought would be 'Aha, a new way to game the KENPC'

« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 06:52:17 PM by Simon Haynes »
 
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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2019, 07:32:32 PM »
My first thought would be 'Aha, a new way to game the KENPC'

It doesn't.

Amazon did a correction for that kind of formatting back in 2016 (I think. Might have been 2017.). A lot people lost up to a third of their KENPC overnight at the time. Those doing long paragraphs lost less than those doing short ones.

I think that was when they realized formatting could manipulate the KENPC a great deal, and the formula reduced everything down to no format.
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notthatamanda

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2019, 12:33:12 AM »
I've never called someone an "arsehole".  I'm from Brooklyn for f*cks sake. :)

I once worked somewhere were a group of us women called everyone "bitch-face" affectionately, so sometimes clarification is necessary, but maybe we were just weird.

I struggled with the problem of dialogue and text and first mixed, then separated, now I'm back to mixing.

"Don't be a douche!" Amanda said, but I could tell from her tone, and the lack of the word nozzle at the end of her sentence, that she was kidding.

Probably don't need all those commas though.  When dialogue is short and people are interrupting each other I tend to lose the tags until I reread and if I thinking there is any chance of the reader getting lost, I through a couple more in.

 
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twicebitten

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2019, 12:35:56 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that. If I have to work to figure out who is speaking, I'm out of there. There are conventions about writing dialog, and they exist for a reason, and I'm trained in those conventions as a reader. I depend on them to make sense of the words on the page.

There are a number of readers who don't care about errors of this kind, of course, as there are a number of readers who don't care about head-hopping. I care about both.

If that is the future of writing, I'm glad I'll be dead before too many more years pass. And in those years, I I'll only be re-reading older books that are written, to my mind, correctly, and not new books if that is how they are all written. This sort of thing is why I seldom buy indie books and am less inclined to every year. Trade publishers, for all their faults, and despite their not being good for me as a writer, correct this sort of error, and to understand and enjoy a book, I need it corrected. I can cringe my way past a few usage errors, and I don't mind a typo every five chapters, but this? No.

 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2019, 12:37:24 AM »
"Don't be a douche!" Amanda said, but I could tell from her tone, and the lack of the word nozzle at the end of her sentence, that she was kidding.

That's fine, I do that lot as well. But the next sentence starts on the next line. Not part of the same para.
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2019, 12:38:58 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that.

Sounds like you read literature, and not rollicking good yarns.  grint
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notthatamanda

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2019, 12:43:00 AM »
When I was first wondering about this I started keeping notice in books I was reading about how the trades did it. That's what I'm doing now with commas.

Side note - It's kind of hard to just read a book now. I'm always trying to figure out how they are handling something.
 
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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2019, 12:45:27 AM »
Side note - It's kind of hard to just read a book now. I'm always trying to figure out how they are handling something.

I cant read now without mentally editing it.
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notthatamanda

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2019, 12:49:55 AM »
Side note - It's kind of hard to just read a book now. I'm always trying to figure out how they are handling something.

I cant read now without mentally editing it.
*can't

:)
 

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2019, 12:53:58 AM »
Side note - It's kind of hard to just read a book now. I'm always trying to figure out how they are handling something.

I cant read now without mentally editing it.
*can't

:)

Cant isn't pulled up by the spell checker in Firefox.  :hehe
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LilyBLily

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2019, 12:59:19 AM »
I use a lot of dialogue so I'm always working hard to make sure the reader knows who is talking. My struggle is with deep point of view, which interferes mightily with dialogue tagging. Somehow, I'm supposed to telegraph how everyone feels and looks and says things--yet without any adverbs that straight-out say it. If I could master that, I'd be a lot happier with my writing.
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2019, 01:03:25 AM »
Side note - It's kind of hard to just read a book now. I'm always trying to figure out how they are handling something.

I cant read now without mentally editing it.
*can't

:)

Cant isn't pulled up by the spell checker in Firefox.  :hehe
I adjusted for the one space between sentences. You can pry the apostrophe from contractions from my cold dead hands.

Did I spell apostrophe right? I'm in Explorer.
 

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2019, 01:28:49 AM »
Did I spell apostrophe right? I'm in Explorer.

I wouldn't use Explorer if I was dead.
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notthatamanda

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2019, 01:34:13 AM »
Just stay off my lawn Tim, and we'll be fine.
 

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2019, 01:37:17 AM »
Just stay off my lawn Tim, and we'll be fine.

No problem. I'm allergic.  Grin
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JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2019, 02:27:53 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that. If I have to work to figure out who is speaking, I'm out of there. There are conventions about writing dialog, and they exist for a reason, and I'm trained in those conventions as a reader. I depend on them to make sense of the words on the page.

There are a number of readers who don't care about errors of this kind, of course, as there are a number of readers who don't care about head-hopping. I care about both.

If that is the future of writing, I'm glad I'll be dead before too many more years pass. And in those years, I I'll only be re-reading older books that are written, to my mind, correctly, and not new books if that is how they are all written. This sort of thing is why I seldom buy indie books and am less inclined to every year. Trade publishers, for all their faults, and despite their not being good for me as a writer, correct this sort of error, and to understand and enjoy a book, I need it corrected. I can cringe my way past a few usage errors, and I don't mind a typo every five chapters, but this? No.
Well put. I couldn't agree more.
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2019, 02:29:50 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that.

Sounds like you read literature, and not rollicking good yarns.  grint
I read rollicking good yarns by Bernard Cornwell and other writers who don't find it necessary to do that. *shrug*

(is it really necessary to be insulting?)
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2019, 02:43:59 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that.

Sounds like you read literature, and not rollicking good yarns.  grint
I read rollicking good yarns by Bernard Cornwell and other writers who don't find it necessary to do that. *shrug*

(is it really necessary to be insulting?)

I wasn't being insulting. I've no idea who Cornell is. And also no idea why they don't 'do that'. Nor do I really care. It works for me and my fans, and that's all that matters. What works for you is also good.

As a rule, a smilie on the end means its a joke, not an insult.

I'm up front with not writing literature, or writing in the style of literature. Never been interested in it, never will be. If that offends anyone, well so be it. I managed to avoid reading 70% of the literature in high school, and have always considered myself lucky. Never read any Shakespeare, never will. The only ones I remember reading were Lord of the Flies, and Animal Farm, neither of which did anything for me, except put me off reading more of the same.

I write rollicking yarns, and the pacing is designed that way. So what the OP is asking about, is the way I write. When I went back to my first 2 books and did second editions, I applied all this sort of writing to them, and the negative reviews mainly stopped. It works for me and my fans.
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Simon Haynes

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2019, 02:50:35 AM »

Cant isn't pulled up by the spell checker in Firefox.  :hehe

Which is why I never use a spell checker. (And I never, ever use a grammar checker. I'm pretty sure they were designed for business letters or computer manuals or something.)
 
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Simon Haynes

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2019, 02:53:52 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that.

Sounds like you read literature, and not rollicking good yarns.  grint
I read rollicking good yarns by Bernard Cornwell and other writers who don't find it necessary to do that. *shrug*

(is it really necessary to be insulting?)

I wasn't being insulting. I've no idea who Cornell is. And also no idea why they don't 'do that'. Nor do I really care. It works for me and my fans, and that's all that matters. What works for you is also good.

As a rule, a smilie on the end means its a joke, not an insult.

I'm up front with not writing literature, or writing in the style of literature. Never been interested in it, never will be. If that offends anyone, well so be it. I managed to avoid reading 70% of the literature in high school, and have always considered myself lucky. Never read any Shakespeare, never will. The only ones I remember reading were Lord of the Flies, and Animal Farm, neither of which did anything for me, except put me off reading more of the same.

I write rollicking yarns, and the pacing is designed that way. So what the OP is asking about, is the way I write. When I went back to my first 2 books and did second editions, I applied all this sort of writing to them, and the negative reviews mainly stopped. It works for me and my fans.


I grew up reading Dickens and Shakespeare and Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and a thousand other authors. (No TV, no choice.)  I read anything and everything I could get my hands on.

I also filled my house with over 3000 books. I've pared them down to 900 or so now (long story), but I've replaced them with ebooks so the net effect is probably the same.

I could never have written A Riddle in Bronze in the style I did without that background in literature and classics. (Jules Verne, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle et al.)

I'm not suggesting you have to read widely to write a novel, obviously, but it's all grist to the mill.
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2019, 03:04:59 AM »
I grew up reading Dickens and Shakespeare and Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and a thousand other authors.

I read JE MacDonald, Biggles, the Adventure series, and stuff like that. Lot of war books, which I sold a decade ago. Swallows and Amazons was probably the closest to Blyton I got. I've got all the Star Wars extended universe books. I read a lot of diverse scifi too. I collected the Doctor Who novels until it ended in the 80's. Still have them, and a huge number of Star Trek books which are totally worthless these days. I regretted selling my Biggles collection.
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Gerri Attrick

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2019, 03:29:22 AM »
Cant may not have been pulled up by the spellchecker, because it's a word in its own right. It makes no sense in the way Tim used it - it means hypocritical talk, especially in a religious or moral way.

Just saying.  :smilie_zauber:
 

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2019, 03:55:37 AM »
I hesitate to be dogmatic on such questions. I do think Dennis's initial example reads better than the chopped up one. But I think we all agree that the issue comes down to clarity. If the writing is clear, I'm not going to quibble about where the paragraph breaks are. If it isn't, I'll start quibbling.

I will take issue with the idea that rollicking good yarns and literature are somehow separated by an impenetrable wall. Sometimes, we stereotype "genre fiction" as being a collection of inferior pot boilers, not worth serious attention. Sometimes, we stereotype literature as being boring, hard to follow, irrelevant, etc. Neither of these generalizations really holds up.

Shakespeare was the most popular writer of his day. What box office records survive make clear that his plays were normally performed to packed houses, while those of other playwrights often weren't, and most of those are hardly performed today at all. Shakespeare is still performed, still filmed, still reflected in a variety of different derivative works. That's because human nature doesn't change, even though the cultural expression of it varies a little. It takes work to get past the difference in language, but the work is well worth it. (By the way, in Shakespeare's time, plays were not considered literature. Real authors wrote poetry.)

Many writers considered literary today were highly popular in their own time, Dickens certainly was. Agatha Christie was one of the bestselling writers of all time. And the reason a lot of ancient writers survived (Homer, Virgil, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, etc.) was that they were popular. In those days, since books had to be copied by hand to survive, books that weren't popular would quickly vanish. The survival of the Graeco-Roman works is particularly remarkable in that the triumph of Christianity could easily have wiped them all out, but they were revered enough to survive even that kind of major upheaval.

But that doesn't mean newer works don't have value. Today's popular favorites may well be tomorrow's classics. You don't have to be consciously writing literature to produce material of enduring value. Works meant to entertain can also provide meaning and stimulate thought. They may go about it differently. But are the modern superhero stories really all that different from the stories of gods and demigods then ancient Greeks enjoyed? In some ways, they're very similar. In some ways, the later ones are dependent on the earlier ones. Aqua Man is from Atlantis, after all. Wonder Woman is an Amazon. Thor, though an alien in the Marvel Universe, was originally a Norse god. An episode of the original Star Trek brought the crew into contact with an alien who had once been worshipped on Earth as Apollo. And the list could go forever. The old and the new are in a constant dialog with each other.

I always encouraged my students to read both works that they enjoyed and works that stretched their brains a little. Some books might even do both.

That was today's literary rant.


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JRTomlin

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2019, 04:14:34 AM »
I wouldn't read or buy a book written like that.

Sounds like you read literature, and not rollicking good yarns.  grint
I read rollicking good yarns by Bernard Cornwell and other writers who don't find it necessary to do that. *shrug*

(is it really necessary to be insulting?)

I wasn't being insulting. I've no idea who Cornell is. And also no idea why they don't 'do that'. Nor do I really care. It works for me and my fans, and that's all that matters. What works for you is also good.

As a rule, a smilie on the end means its a joke, not an insult.

I'm up front with not writing literature, or writing in the style of literature. Never been interested in it, never will be. If that offends anyone, well so be it. I managed to avoid reading 70% of the literature in high school, and have always considered myself lucky. Never read any Shakespeare, never will. The only ones I remember reading were Lord of the Flies, and Animal Farm, neither of which did anything for me, except put me off reading more of the same.

I write rollicking yarns, and the pacing is designed that way. So what the OP is asking about, is the way I write. When I went back to my first 2 books and did second editions, I applied all this sort of writing to them, and the negative reviews mainly stopped. It works for me and my fans.


I grew up reading Dickens and Shakespeare and Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and a thousand other authors. (No TV, no choice.)  I read anything and everything I could get my hands on.

I also filled my house with over 3000 books. I've pared them down to 900 or so now (long story), but I've replaced them with ebooks so the net effect is probably the same.

I could never have written A Riddle in Bronze in the style I did without that background in literature and classics. (Jules Verne, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle et al.)

I'm not suggesting you have to read widely to write a novel, obviously, but it's all grist to the mill.
This. I could not put it better. I am able to write because I read everything I could get my hands on from John Barbour to Chaucer to Shakespeare to Alexandre Dumas to Sir Walter Scott to Dashiell Hammett to Victoria Holt to Superman comics to yes, Bernard Cornwell, the top writer in my particular genre.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 04:57:18 AM by JRTomlin »
 
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Writer

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2019, 09:59:05 AM »
I've seen it done all three ways, but this one is my preference because it flows clearest and smoothest.

I entered the room. "Where's John?"
Mary shrugged. "The crocodile ate him this morning."
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2019, 10:13:10 AM »
"Where's John?" I asked, entering the room.
"The crocodile looks happy," said Mary.
There was a long pause.
"What?"
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PJ Post

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2019, 10:32:08 AM »
First person, especially present tense, makes all of this a lot easier, and more...um, snappy-ish.

As for literature...

I define 'literature' as having something to say. I don't really put much stock into how it gets said.
 
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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2019, 06:04:02 PM »
It can read snappy, or it can read as disjointed. Personally, I find it disjointed more often than not. I don't think it helps the reading at all.

If I have to think to figure out who said what, the author responsible for that is not doing their job.


This is my opinion on the subject, too.  When I read for pleasure, I don't want to have to put in any effort to parse the text.  I had enough challenging reading when I was an engineering student, thanks.  I want my pleasure reading to be effortless.

No offense to anyone who writes this way.  It's just not my thing as a reader.


Cant may not have been pulled up by the spellchecker, because it's a word in its own right. It makes no sense in the way Tim used it - it means hypocritical talk, especially in a religious or moral way.

Just saying.  :smilie_zauber:


I've used the word "cant" a number of times to refer to something that is tilted.  In those cases, a thing can be said to be "canted."  For example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/comments/dtxlru/rear_sight_block_cant/


I wouldn't use Explorer if I was dead.


Brother, I hear you.  I use Microsoft's web browser exactly once per computer, and that's when the computer is brand new and doesn't yet have Firefox installed.  I need to use Explorer to install a browser that doesn't suck, but then I never use it again.


Back in the day, when dialogue didn't have to be so short and snappy, we'd see a full paragraph with no end quote marks and then another full paragraph by the same person, with no tags in between, just a set of beginning quote marks on the second paragraph.


I've done this myself in my published works.  It tends to happen whenever one character is telling a story to the other characters.

I'm a fan of monologues, so I occasionally employ them.  I blame Jaws and the USS Indianapolis.   :ices_angel_g:
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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2019, 07:25:31 PM »
I grew up reading Dickens and Shakespeare and Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and a thousand other authors.

I read JE MacDonald, Biggles, the Adventure series, and stuff like that. Lot of war books, which I sold a decade ago. Swallows and Amazons was probably the closest to Blyton I got. I've got all the Star Wars extended universe books. I read a lot of diverse scifi too. I collected the Doctor Who novels until it ended in the 80's. Still have them, and a huge number of Star Trek books which are totally worthless these days. I regretted selling my Biggles collection.

Bloody hell! I thought I was the only person left alive who read JE MacDonnell. He's a bit of an unknown in Australian literature, yet he wrote over 400 novels. He inspired me to join the navy - which I did at the tender age of 15 and three months - but I left after suffering homesickness and discovering that sinking Japanese submarines or shooting down Stukas with a Russian Burp Gun from the deck of a destroyer was no longer required. You just had to polish sh*t. Hardly the stuff of ripping, naval yarns...
 

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Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2019, 07:56:58 PM »
Bloody hell! I thought I was the only person left alive who read JE MacDonnell. He's a bit of an unknown in Australian literature

His novels used to hit the bargain bins I used to walk past on a regular basis.

I once read the whole lot and added up all the ships which had been sunk. I think the total was about 3 times the total number of actual axis and Japanese ships there had been. (Ships includes subs).

Biggles had me try for the airforce. Alas, I failed the pre-physical, so navy was out as well. I'd have made a decent officer, either flying or on the bridge of a ship. imho.   :ices_angel_g:
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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2019, 08:58:42 PM »
I loved Biggles books about WW1 so much, where he was with Algernon (which I could never decide how to pronounce) and flying Sopwith Camels, that I found anything else Biggles-wise disappointing. And my real dream was to join the RAN airforce which consisted, at the time, of HMAS Melbourne (which regularly ran over errant destroyers) with A4 Skyhawks. Never going to happen, but it was a dream...
 

She-la-te-da

Re: Is it allowed now?
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2020, 11:44:18 PM »
"Allowed" or not, it's not something I'm going to read. It's improper according to modern accepted usage, and looks confusing.
I write various flavors of speculative fiction. This is my main pen name.