Writer Sanctum
Writer's Haven => Quill and Feather Pub [Public] => Topic started by: idontknowyet on February 21, 2019, 02:06:41 PM
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I've been sick this last weeks so I spent most of my time reading. (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it)
I have a hard time finding truly good books. An even harder time finding long well developed series. (Not stand alone series) This week I found one. A really good one. She released several series and stopped publishing under that pen name in about 2014. This woman (her pen name is female) can write no doubt about it.
Why why why why did she ever stop? I'm really hoping she just stopped writing under this pen name and not altogether. I'm going to go hunting her down on othe internet something i almost never do.
Here's my question. Why in the world do good writers stop writing in a genre they are great at?
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Sadly, death or incapacitation is always a possibility.
Could also be that the books didn't sell well.
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It occasionally happens that a writer who's really good vanishes. Over the years, I've had a lot of favourites who published one or two really great books or a really great series and then fell off the face of the Earth. With traditional publishing, it often meant that these writers didn't sell enough, so subsequent books weren't picked up. With indies, it can mean that the author switched genres and pen names. It's also possible that the author became ill or died, that they had a child, took a demanding day job or that they simply decided that writing wasn't for them.
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Quite a number of people have creative bursts covering a number of years. Then it packs up. Sometimes they stop, often they work at it for a while but aren't happy with the quality and then stop (or only work privately). True for writers as well as artists. Sometimes there's a period in life where it fits, but then other activities squeeze it out.
Lots of artists hate showing or deciding a work is finished. Or JD Salinger who stopped publishing in 1965 but kept on writing for another 50 years: “He just decided that the best thing for his writing was not to have a lot of interactions with people, literary types in particular."
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Could be she made enough money and retired. Hugh Howey bought a boat and went cruising the world last I heard.
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Could be there were other easier ways for that particular person to make money so they stopped publishing what they write or stopped writing altogether. (Not everyone feels compelled to write or die.)
Could be they loved writing those books but that the money just wasn't there so they moved on to more lucrative genres under a new name.
Could be they loved writing those novels but received some harsh reviews or criticism and couldn't get past it.
Could be they burned out or got disgusted with how it all works.
Could have been a pen name of a successful author and they went back to their bread and butter. (There was an author who wrote a series I liked enough to keep an eye out for them. Years later I finally looked them up and found out that was a pen name of a different author and they'd just written that one series under that name.)
Could be they're an incredibly slow writer and are still working on the next book.
And, as mentioned above, they could have died or had health issues. Ursula K LeGuin said a few years before she passed away that she could no longer write novels and I know there was at least one other sci fi Grand Master who basically stopped writing novels after receiving that designation. We can't always continue to do the same things as we age.
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Could be that they feel they have nothing more to say. I know of several writers who have retired despite or perhaps because of achieving plenty of fame and fortune and moral support from other writers. Some still go to conventions and hang out, and others have simply vanished from the writing scene.
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Don't forget the aspect of social media being a two-edged sword these days as well. Authors - trad published & Indie - are told they need to have a 'platform' or an email list to push their books. Interacting with your readers can be an enjoyable experience. But there can also be blowback in this age of media outrage. We've had threads where authors were attacked for cultural misappropriation or whatever you want to call it. One of the threads mentioned an author who never even published because of the anger vented at her on social media. I know of two authors who had enough problems that they have pulled back. I've had some problems myself were people want to 'help' with your books - mentioning typos, etc. it can be really helpful but I've had at least two people who became angry that I wasn't accepting 'all' of their help. It doesn't make any sense but people can take an 'ownership' in you and your work. This isn't a problem that just happens to authors - In one instance I was working on a team developing a game eight years when two people got into an argument online. It ended with one guy showing up at the other guy's house and an arrest following. :n2Str17:
Al mentioned Hugh Howey - I remember one particular situation when he was offering some advice to visitors to his website - budding authors - one guy got pissed off at him, claiming he had a silver spoon in his mouth and now that he had his money he was trying to prevent everyone else from getting theirs. Some people just have rage built-in.
This can happen even if it's a pen name - at one point a few years ago when you published on iTunes your real name was revealed. I don't know if this is still a case. But if you have a website and someone runs a Whois search and you don't have privacy on your website, your name and address are revealed. There are other ways they can 'track you down'.
Let the paranoia begin.
:help
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Diana Gabaldon is 65 (or thereabouts) but she has two more books to write in her Outlander series. She takes about four years to write one. Hope she makes it, but if not, I'm sure she'll retire after that last book (#10 in the series).
Susan Howatch, my favorite author, stopped writing several years ago. She just retired. No reason that I know of. But writing is like anything else. It just gets to be time to slow down, let go, enjoy whatever time you have.
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Dollars or Disinterest.
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A few others mentioned receiving criticism and the like, but I'd like to go a bit further and suggest it could also be that the fame got to them. I'm not sure how successful this writer is, but even moderate success can be too much. Many writers are natural introverts, and as nice as it can be to have anyone read your work and enjoy it, sometimes just the idea that hundreds if not thousands of people are out there consuming your art, judging it, and spreading their opinions about on social media and otherwise is overwhelming. Heck, I'm an extreme extrovert and I find it hard to accept. As a writer I live in a constant state of denial. If every time I sat down to write I imagined writing for the thousands of readers who will eventually read the book rather than just for myself, I'd freeze up and stop writing altogether. At a certain point, I'm sure this makes some people throw their hands up and quit.
The sad thing is that I'm sure there are thousands of great books sitting unpublished on hard drives everywhere because fame, one particularly critical review, or over-eager fans just pushed an author over the line. Self-doubt is so dangerous to writers and so unfortunately easy to fall into. As writers we can constantly improve our craft and our work ethic, but learning to accept the ups and downs of being a success is a hurdle some likely never overcome.
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Thanks, Rosie - you've put into words something I couldn't quite find a way to express. It doesn't particularly apply to me as I just trundle along regardless of success, lack of success, criticism or praise, but my son, who is even more of an introvert than I am, had some success (in a contest) with his first novel and then suddenly announced he was stopping writing. I am still hoping this is just a phase and he will eventually go back to it, but I think this was a case where he couldn't cope with either the good or the bad reviews.
On the other hand when I give up it will be when I am too infirm or dead to be able to do it any more!
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I am still hoping this is just a phase and he will eventually go back to it, but I think this was a case where he couldn't cope with either the good or the bad reviews.
I hope it's a phase, too. I don't have many reviews on my titles and all the reviews I've received have been complimentary. I just hope I don't let my first negative review get me down. I'll be the first to point out that there are some out there that hate just to hate, nothing more.
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I hesitated to post this...
I found out why this author hasn't published anything. She's been diagnosed with MS. She is writing, but it's extremely slow. I really would have wished it were something else.
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I hesitated to post this...
I found out why this author hasn't published anything. She's been diagnosed with MS. She is writing, but it's extremely slow. I really would have wished it were something else.
Kudos to her for carrying on in spite of her illness.
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I am still hoping this is just a phase and he will eventually go back to it, but I think this was a case where he couldn't cope with either the good or the bad reviews.
I hope it's a phase, too. I don't have many reviews on my titles and all the reviews I've received have been complimentary. I just hope I don't let my first negative review get me down. I'll be the first to point out that there are some out there that hate just to hate, nothing more.
Getting a one star bad review can be cathartic - you still wake up the next day.
Would you like me to give you one? grint
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Getting a one star bad review can be cathartic - you still wake up the next day.
Would you like me to give you one? grint
Only if you buy my book first and read it! Grin
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Getting a one star bad review can be cathartic - you still wake up the next day.
Would you like me to give you one? grint
Only if you buy my book first and read it! Grin
:icon_lol2:
Good answer. grint
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I'm sorry to hear that.
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My brother, a fine painter, stopped painting years ago because he was dissatisfied with his art. I retired from writing computer programming books and articles in about 2003 because I dislike deadlines and pressure. There are many reasons.
I'm am sad to learn about the illness that slowed the subject writer's work. I hope she doesn't give up. I just watched "The Theory of Everything," about Stephen Hawking. His courage and fortitude coping with ALS is an inspiration for us all.
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Al, I really liked that movie. And what an amazing wife he had.
Lauren Hillenbrand inspires me no end. Both her books, Seabiscuit and Unbroken, are wonderful as were the movies. Whenever I'm struggling with pain, I think of people who were disabled and how they pressed on. Helen Keller was my first inspiration. Much later I discovered Christy Brown in My Left Foot. Great stories. Maybe someone will make a movie about LH too. Sorry to go off-topic, Idontknowyet. People stop for so many reasons. I'm sorry to hear the author is battling MS. I've known several people with it and it's tough.
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Besides illness (which is a terrible thing to deal with) I think some writers burn out. It's a lonely profession. We usually spend time on social media because most people have no idea what it means to be a writer. It's reassuring to talk to others going through similar challenges...but with the constant pressure to produce, market, follow genres, produce faster, market more, buy new covers, etc. it can all be a bit much after a while.
I'm rather glad I do this part time. I've seen some friends getting very discouraged and I can't even imagine the stress if this is the only paycheck. As the market continues to contract, I think more writers will quit. While I can look at it objectively from an economics perspective, it's still sad to see friends leave.
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Besides illness (which is a terrible thing to deal with) I think some writers burn out. It's a lonely profession. We usually spend time on social media because most people have no idea what it means to be a writer. It's reassuring to talk to others going through similar challenges...but with the constant pressure to produce, market, follow genres, produce faster, market more, buy new covers, etc. it can all be a bit much after a while.
I'm rather glad I do this part time. I've seen some friends getting very discouraged and I can't even imagine the stress if this is the only paycheck. As the market continues to contract, I think more writers will quit. While I can look at it objectively from an economics perspective, it's still sad to see friends leave.
Just today, my daughter was advising me to write for myself and not bother publishing. She felt the promotion side of it was too stressful and the production side of it too expensive. Maybe she's right, but what's the point of writing if I can't pop onto Amazon and see my work up on the screen?
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Besides illness (which is a terrible thing to deal with) I think some writers burn out. It's a lonely profession. We usually spend time on social media because most people have no idea what it means to be a writer. It's reassuring to talk to others going through similar challenges...but with the constant pressure to produce, market, follow genres, produce faster, market more, buy new covers, etc. it can all be a bit much after a while.
I'm rather glad I do this part time. I've seen some friends getting very discouraged and I can't even imagine the stress if this is the only paycheck. As the market continues to contract, I think more writers will quit. While I can look at it objectively from an economics perspective, it's still sad to see friends leave.
Just today, my daughter was advising me to write for myself and not bother publishing. She felt the promotion side of it was too stressful and the production side of it too expensive. Maybe she's right, but what's the point of writing if I can't pop onto Amazon and see my work up on the screen?
There is something about seeing one's work on the Amazon product page!
Even more than that, though, I think storytellers inherently desire an audience. Writers, however introverted, want to share what they've created with someone. That may not be true of every single writer on the planet, but it's true of any of the ones I've ever talked to about it.
I've thought about writing only for myself. Somehow, writing seems more frivolous that way. Entertaining others gives the writing more purpose than if I'm just entertaining myself. If you think about it, that's true of a lot of things.
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Besides illness (which is a terrible thing to deal with) I think some writers burn out. It's a lonely profession. We usually spend time on social media because most people have no idea what it means to be a writer. It's reassuring to talk to others going through similar challenges...but with the constant pressure to produce, market, follow genres, produce faster, market more, buy new covers, etc. it can all be a bit much after a while.
I'm rather glad I do this part time. I've seen some friends getting very discouraged and I can't even imagine the stress if this is the only paycheck. As the market continues to contract, I think more writers will quit. While I can look at it objectively from an economics perspective, it's still sad to see friends leave.
Just today, my daughter was advising me to write for myself and not bother publishing. She felt the promotion side of it was too stressful and the production side of it too expensive. Maybe she's right, but what's the point of writing if I can't pop onto Amazon and see my work up on the screen?
There is something about seeing one's work on the Amazon product page!
Even more than that, though, I think storytellers inherently desire an audience. Writers, however introverted, want to share what they've created with someone. That may not be true of every single writer on the planet, but it's true of any of the ones I've ever talked to about it.
I've thought about writing only for myself. Somehow, writing seems more frivolous that way. Entertaining others gives the writing more purpose than if I'm just entertaining myself. If you think about it, that's true of a lot of things.
It's sort of like that old question ... if a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? Yes, when I write something, I want it to be read. It's validation when it's read whether readers love it or hate it. I think being such a solitary profession, we have little chance for validation in our own lives.
So, no, I will not be writing and not publishing. I am writing and I will write and I will continue to publish because it's what I do. Without it, I am not me.
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Writers are gods.
Not only do we want to see our 'people' flourish, we want to set them free beyond the worlds we create.
Give each creation a key to a human's imagination so they may live, at least for a while.
Illness, life sometimes gets in the way but a storyteller's mind never stops imagining - that's why we have such vivid dreams, see such wondrous things where others may only see the mundane.
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Writers, keep entertaining people for as long as you are able and be glad that you have added something glorious to our human world.
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. . . be glad that you have added something glorious to our human world.
Thanks, but sales levels often don't make it feel that way.
Some people think that all art is priceless, but it always comes down to the fact that things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. And if no one is willing to pay, well, that seems to be a public statement on your work that says more than any number of reviews.
I used to think that at least my work would survive in the Library of Congress. You send in two copies when you register your copyright, so they must have a huge collection. So, there was always hope that one day your work might be seen and appreciated. But, did you know they may eventually throw those copies out? They only keep what they feel is worthy of being kept. Other stuff gets tossed. If you want them to actually keep them, they will but for an additional fee. And how long will they keep it if you pay? I don't know; I didn't check that fine print.
Years ago, there was a local poet in town. He wrote poems and would make copies and hand them out to people. I think he visited nursing homes, for example, and gave them poems. He had different poems to cover different life situations and if he felt you were in need of some particular sentiment, he'd give you a copy of a poem he'd written for that occasion. He had had an interesting life too, full of stories. He always wanted to see his poems published in his own book. Sadly, he passed away before that happened (so far as I know). That was before Kindle and Lulu and CreateSpace and all that. Had he lived a few years longer, he might have been able to self-publish his poems.
But what happened to all his poems? Did his family keep them? I've looked from time to time just to see if maybe someone in his family published them after his death, but I've never come across such a book. Maybe they kept them. Maybe they tossed them. I don't know. I hope someone kept them.
Too often people seem perhaps too eager to move on after a family member's death, by selling, donating or tossing everything owned by that person. And then it's like they were never there. I've seen this happen more than once. People die and the surviving spouse remodels the house, makes it like the other person had never been there. Often, a short time later and that surviving spouse will have remarried. Sometimes so quickly you wonder if they even ever mourned the dead. The famous get statues, biographical movies, museum displays and whatnot; the rest of us are just replaceable pegs no one notices are even gone.
At least with a book, some small part of the person lives on.
But if that art is deemed worthless and tossed, it's somewhat akin to saying that person's life was a waste because you're throwing away something of that person, not simply something they owned or bought in a store, but something they themselves created--a little piece of their soul, if you will.
I used to believe that there were people that valued what came before. I don't know about that anymore. People seem too eager to toss history by the wayside. Old building? Tear it down and build a new one! Old tools? Sell them for scrap metal. Old books? Recycle them. Just seems sad to me.
Sometimes I think about Atlantis. Some people doubt a civilization as advanced as Atlantis supposedly was could vanish without a trace. But think of floods and disasters that have happened in recent years. If neighboring states and communities hadn't been around to help, how many of those communities would have never been rebuilt and simply lost to nature? Or, what if everything old was scrapped, torn, recycled or otherwise gotten rid of continually? What if all your historical records were stored on magnetic media in the "cloud" somewhere? One big disaster and everything could be lost. It would all be gone. Whether Atlantis is true or a myth, there's a lesson to be learned there. Everything can be lost and forgotten, especially if there is no one who cares.
Do people care? I don't know. Seems too often people are more interested in getting their hands on the latest gizmo to care about a dusty book or a rusty tool or whatever. Put the blankets grandma made up on eBay and sell grandpa's tools to the metal recycling all to get a few bucks toward buying the next iPhone and toss their manuscripts and drawings and whatnot to make space for a charging dock. The dead are dead and the living need the latest smartphones to like all those cat memes on Twinstagrambook.
So, that's the realization that if you're not Hemingway or Stephen King or a big name, no one's going to care about anything you did. When you die, your stuff--bought or created--will all end up in the same trash or recycling bin and within a few years no one will even know you ever lived. Do we all become stories in the end? Nope. We're just dust in the windstorm.
Maybe that's why some writers quit. Why go through the effort of building a sand castle if it's just going to be washed away and forgotten minutes later? Might as well relax in a chair and watch the waves come in. Less work and the end result is exactly the same.
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Yes, Dan, you're right. My parents both passed within the last few years and it was my job to clear out their houses. I tried at first to donate things, but there was just too much. I ended up tossing most of it.
My father had boxes of batteries and light bulbs marked N.G. My mother had laundry baskets full of empty peanut butter jars. No caps. I found the caps later in another part of the garage. My father had automotive manuals from the 70's and my mother had an extensive collection of corks from who knows where. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I only had a week to clear out my father's house and he lived in NJ. Goodwill doesn't pick up and I had a house full of furniture to get rid of. We finally put everything out on the curb and put an ad on Craigslist for people to come and get it. And they did. In droves. With trucks. So I felt that people were getting use out of his things.
Nobody wants to buy used things anymore. Nobody even wants antiques. Ebay has spoiled that for us. I have things that fifty years ago were worth something but now are only worth $25-35 on ebay because there are a lot of the same items up for auction.
What's may father's legacy? I am and he won't be forgotten as long as there are those of us who remember him. Same with my mother. It's only the memories that are important. Not even the pictures are as important as what I carry in my heart.
My granddaughter is being confirmed tomorrow and I gave her my mother's confirmation ring to wear. That tradition could very well be carried on for generations. Maybe not, but I like to think a part of my mother is at the ceremony.
As for my books, I am making arrangements for them to be unpublished on my death. Nobody in my family wants to put any effort into either selling or preserving them. I can't blame them for that. It's my thing not theirs.
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I love antiques and kept a lot of my grandmother's things...including her paintings. She was incredibly talented as a singer, artist, actress, and even clothes designer. She used to make all her own dresses when she sang professionally and designed most of the costumes for her theater group.
So, not everything gets thrown away. And once we publish, our books live on forever. Especially in paperback. While I'd like to make enough with my writing to quit my day job, it's not the main reason I write. It's to tell stories.
That's what I enjoy and I hope other people enjoy them too. :catrun
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I love antiques, too, and even worked in an antique store as a teenager. I have a nice collection of both flea market finds and things which used to belong to deceased relatives. When I look at the item or handle it, I'm inevitably reminded of the person who owned it. I also have things which used to belong to my great-grandparents as well as to two grandparents I never met. One of my great-grandfathers was a sea captain who worked in South East Asia before WWI. I have some of the items he brought back from his travels and my parents have more. I also have a bracelet that belonged to my great-grandmother from another side of the family. She was very poor and this bracelet may well have been the only nice thing she ever owned, memento of the only holiday she ever took in her life.
As for the tendency to just throw everything out, that's a result of the decluttering culture and the whole Mari Kondo "Does this spark joy?" stuff. That said, winding up with a flat or house full of stuff after a relative dies can be overwhelming. My grandmother had beginning dementia when she died, so her flat was full of food long past the expiry date, supplies for her budgy which had died years before, random letters of the sort no one would keep, etc... She was also an enthusiastic photographer who took hundreds of photos, usually of her travels. Sad as it was, we threw those photos out, because no one cared about grandma's holiday in Hungary in 1976 and there were way too many to even go through them. But I do have things that belonged to her and my grandpa who died before her. I have grandma's garnet necklace, a set of wooden deer I always loved, a wall plate and a white madonna figure which grandma bought back in 1948, just before the pre-war German money was devalued and a new currency introduced (I kept those for the history connected with them), a wrought iron chandelier and wall lamp my grandpa made himself sometime in the 1940s, a model ship he built, etc...
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Cora, what I threw out had nothing to do with minimalist trends. It went because it was useless (dead batteries) or had no value to anyone. What I kept were practical things. I gave away the crystal and good dishes and kept tools and kitchen utensils.
I had dealers come to the house and they'd say something like, "Don't take less than $200 for that." I'd say, "Make me an offer." Inevitably, they would tell me they weren't interested.
Mari Kondo doesn't know how to fold tee-shirts. They should be folded with the print on the outside. I watched one show and I doubt I'll ever watch another.
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I like the idea of only keeping things that are useful or make us happy...but ALL my books, china and crystal seem to spark joy. LOL Of course, most of the dishes are from family members. Or flea markets, which have wonderful things!
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Cora, what I threw out had nothing to do with minimalist trends. It went because it was useless (dead batteries) or had no value to anyone. What I kept were practical things. I gave away the crystal and good dishes and kept tools and kitchen utensils.
I had dealers come to the house and they'd say something like, "Don't take less than $200 for that." I'd say, "Make me an offer." Inevitably, they would tell me they weren't interested.
Mari Kondo doesn't know how to fold tee-shirts. They should be folded with the print on the outside. I watched one show and I doubt I'll ever watch another.
I wasn't referring to you in particular. I suspect your situation was similar to cleaning out my grandma's flat after she died. No one needed empty envelopes which had once contained tax documents (we never found the tax documents, just the envelopes), birdfood three years past its sell-by date or hundreds of photos of Hungarian wildflowers. And we did sell off some of her furniture such as her vintage 1950s kitchen. China, crystal, silverware and the like are also a problem, because quite often it has gone out of style (there were some really cool china designs in the past, but for some reason my relatives always bought the boring white with gilded edge stuff) and/or you simply don't need it. And the generation dying off at the moment was the last that still had trousseaus and big sets of fine china and silverware, so there are a lot of sets coming onto the market, but comparatively little demand.
As for folding t-shirts, why would you put the print on the inside? If it's on the outside, you can see at a glance what t-shirt it is rather than embarassing yourself by wearing a Star Wars t-shirt to a funeral rather than the plain black one you actually wanted for.
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I imagine there are as many reasons as there are people on this planet. I know I consider stopping when I get too frustrated with the "advice" people like to hand out like it was pearls. Like, you can only make it if you write to market (which invariably, when looked at closely, is writing to whatever trend is hot at the moment), spend huge amounts to make little profit, spend hours and hours searching for crap to post on Instagram (or whatever hot social media thing of the moment). Also, you must pay big bucks for a "pro" cover, and loads of editing, and formatting, and just the right website, and the special computer program that will work magic.
All this sort of thing, given without any real care or concern, has basically killed my writing for the past few months. I get so discouraged about writing, because I can't do it right. So why bother? On the days when I actually do write, I feel that love and spark again, but it doesn't seem to last. Not that anyone will notice if I stop writing.
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I imagine there are as many reasons as there are people on this planet. I know I consider stopping when I get too frustrated with the "advice" people like to hand out like it was pearls. Like, you can only make it if you write to market (which invariably, when looked at closely, is writing to whatever trend is hot at the moment), spend huge amounts to make little profit, spend hours and hours searching for crap to post on Instagram (or whatever hot social media thing of the moment). Also, you must pay big bucks for a "pro" cover, and loads of editing, and formatting, and just the right website, and the special computer program that will work magic.
All this sort of thing, given without any real care or concern, has basically killed my writing for the past few months. I get so discouraged about writing, because I can't do it right. So why bother? On the days when I actually do write, I feel that love and spark again, but it doesn't seem to last. Not that anyone will notice if I stop writing.
Honestly, I quit listening to most of it. :cheers
Write what you love. Write what makes you happy. Write for enjoyment. This is what I do and if readers enjoy it too...that's frosting on the cake!
Yes, you can take this seriously and consider it a business and still write for your own enjoyment. I call it my long-term plan because I want to be doing this for a long time. Not end up frustrated and burnt out after a few years.
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
The actual act of writing SUCKS.
I love concepting. I love plotting. I love characterization, and imagery, and dialogue, and creating allegory and metaphor and delicate subtext that leaves the reader pondering. I love irony; Christ, I love irony. I love building out characters to the point where I'm not writing so much as writing down what they say and do. I love love LOVE manipulating words to get that exact turn of phrase. I love words. I love mulling over fantasy languages, and worldbuilding, and maps and research and swordfighting and boxing and riding horses and rappelling off cliffs and all the other stuff I do to get the ideas flowing.
I LOVE words.
I hate writing.
If I ever quit, it's because I HATE, with the fire of a thousand suns, the mechanical act of putting words into a computer. Or a typewriter. Or even onto a notepad, as awesome as my pens are.
And don't talk to me about dictation software; I've tried it and I'd rather be shot through both balls.
Until we can install a jack into the base of a creator's skull and directly download a fantasy world into the mind of the reader, we have to keep digging ditches that people will pay money to admire.
(http://josephmalik.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Ditches-sm.png)
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
The actual act of writing SUCKS.
We all come to this crazy self pub world from different directions and with different goals and motivations. I love writing stories, and I love editing them even more. I can't imagine writing if I didn't enjoy sitting on my ass hour after hour and day after day and it wasn't fun. For me its a hobby that actually pays for itself and more, but I'd do it if I had to pay to get readers, rather than them paying me.
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I love writing. When it all comes together...it's wonderful!
ETA: The comparison to Fred Astaire is so true. LOL
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
The actual act of writing SUCKS.
We all come to this crazy self pub world from different directions and with different goals and motivations. I love writing stories, and I love editing them even more. I can't imagine writing if I didn't enjoy sitting on my ass hour after hour and day after day and it wasn't fun. For me its a hobby that actually pays for itself and more, but I'd do it if I had to pay to get readers, rather than them paying me.
I love writing, too, and I'm so glad to be back in the game. I love the research and bringing that research to life through my characters when I'm writing an historical, or exploring today's jobs and education and social activities when I'm writing a contemporary. It's almost as good as reading a book where I don't know what's going to happen and I can watch the story unfold.
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
The actual act of writing SUCKS.
I love concepting. I love plotting. I love characterization, and imagery, and dialogue, and creating allegory and metaphor and delicate subtext that leaves the reader pondering. I love irony; Christ, I love irony. I love building out characters to the point where I'm not writing so much as writing down what they say and do. I love love LOVE manipulating words to get that exact turn of phrase. I love words. I love mulling over fantasy languages, and worldbuilding, and maps and research and swordfighting and boxing and riding horses and rappelling off cliffs and all the other stuff I do to get the ideas flowing.
I LOVE words.
I hate writing.
If I ever quit, it's because I HATE, with the fire of a thousand suns, the mechanical act of putting words into a computer. Or a typewriter. Or even onto a notepad, as awesome as my pens are.
And don't talk to me about dictation software; I've tried it and I'd rather be shot through both balls.
Until we can install a jack into the base of a creator's skull and directly download a fantasy world into the mind of the reader, we have to keep digging ditches that people will pay money to admire.
(http://josephmalik.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Ditches-sm.png)
Ah, yes, the mechanics of getting our lovely, beautiful, shining words out of our squishy brains and into a format we can share with others. It can be utterly frustrating.
I'm giving dictation a go just now partly because quite often when I'm typing I seem to develop eight thumbs and can't type a single word without one of those horrible red lines under it.
It's that, or learn to touch type. Tried learning to touch type once using one of those "teach yourself" CDs. The "virtual teacher" gave up on me. I'm not kidding. With added sarcasm, too. Who knew a virtual teacher could be so vicious?
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
I do. But I type very fast so it's not a struggle for me. The words flow from my brain through my fingers to the computer screen without hesitation or effort.
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If I didn't like to write I wouldn't write. I don't like mowing the grass or cleaning the pool, so I pay to have them done. To spend my hours in this short life doing things I don't like would be a waste of potential for having a good time, brief though it may be.
But love or hate activities? Those are gratuitous usages of important words best saved for the real things.
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ETA: The comparison to Fred Astaire is so true. LOL
I remember when I started to learn ballroom dancing. It really was "1... 2... 3... 1... 2... 3..." grint
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Let's just call a spade a spade, huh? Who here actually enjoys writing?
The actual act of writing SUCKS.
Yeah...no. grint
I love the writing part and the re-writing too, it's like moving paint around on a canvas or finding the groove when playing music. Once you find the pocket, it's like a creative singularity where everything locks into place. To be fair though, sometimes it's like playing drunk. While I might have a wonderful time, the audience may not share my enthusiasm. So, yeah, the work might suck, but finding the creative pocket remains a daily goal.
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I love writing. I hate publishing.
All the crap that comes with releasing words into the wild can suck the joy right out of me ... if I let it.
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Responding to the original topic and where it has gone, I enjoy the surprise element to writing that comes only when I'm at the computer with the open file. Then the characters tell me where they want to go, and I follow. It's loads of fun. Getting myself to the computer is the problem. I'll do anything to avoid writing. And I like mowing the lawn and doing the other parts of my life.
Advancing age and lack of overwhelming enthusiasm from the public might be reasons to eventually stop publishing my books and possibly even to stop writing. It's likely that there will come a day when the work of being an indie is too much for me and not sufficiently profitable monetarily to hire someone to do the part I can no longer do. Would I keep writing?
There's a difference between not publishing anymore and not writing anymore, as noted above. We don't actually know if Lavryle Spencer has never written another word since she retired from writing over twenty years ago. All we know is that she stopped publishing.
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I want to stop. Mostly because it's been an uphill battle this entire time.
But then I get depressed if I don't write because nothing of substance is coming out of me. Writing is one way I deal with my issues.
Writers are also like chameleons. We change genres, pen names, careers, etc. Publishing is really hard, especially when we read constantly of people doing so much better than we are given equal efforts or no effort. That kind of sh*t puts me in a bad mood real quick and I have thought of quitting many times because I realize that this is probably a huge waste of time for me. Maybe other authors feel the same way and that's why they disappear. Can't say I blame them.
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I imagine there are as many reasons as there are people on this planet. I know I consider stopping when I get too frustrated with the "advice" people like to hand out like it was pearls. Like, you can only make it if you write to market (which invariably, when looked at closely, is writing to whatever trend is hot at the moment), spend huge amounts to make little profit, spend hours and hours searching for crap to post on Instagram (or whatever hot social media thing of the moment). Also, you must pay big bucks for a "pro" cover, and loads of editing, and formatting, and just the right website, and the special computer program that will work magic.
All this sort of thing, given without any real care or concern, has basically killed my writing for the past few months. I get so discouraged about writing, because I can't do it right. So why bother? On the days when I actually do write, I feel that love and spark again, but it doesn't seem to last. Not that anyone will notice if I stop writing.
This is totally how I have been feeling lately. Why f*cking bother? Why give a sh*t? Why try? The only place I seem to do okay is Wattpad and no one is paying me there. So...f*ck it.
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I want to stop. Mostly because it's been an uphill battle this entire time.
But then I get depressed if I don't write because nothing of substance is coming out of me. Writing is one way I deal with my issues.
Writers are also like chameleons. We change genres, pen names, careers, etc. Publishing is really hard, especially when we read constantly of people doing so much better than we are given equal efforts or no effort. That kind of sh*t puts me in a bad mood real quick and I have thought of quitting many times because I realize that this is probably a huge waste of time for me. Maybe other authors feel the same way and that's why they disappear. Can't say I blame them.
Rose, I think many of us wonder if we'll make any money. Or enough to keep doing this.
I enjoy writing, so I try not to think about the money. Of course, that's impossible...but I'll just keep writing and hopefully improving. When the market settles a bit, then I'll have enough books and series finished that I can actually think about paid promotions.
For now, I'm sticking with my five year plan. :catrun
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I want to stop. Mostly because it's been an uphill battle this entire time.
But then I get depressed if I don't write because nothing of substance is coming out of me. Writing is one way I deal with my issues.
Writers are also like chameleons. We change genres, pen names, careers, etc. Publishing is really hard, especially when we read constantly of people doing so much better than we are given equal efforts or no effort. That kind of sh*t puts me in a bad mood real quick and I have thought of quitting many times because I realize that this is probably a huge waste of time for me. Maybe other authors feel the same way and that's why they disappear. Can't say I blame them.
Rose, I think many of us wonder if we'll make any money. Or enough to keep doing this.
I enjoy writing, so I try not to think about the money. Of course, that's impossible...but I'll just keep writing and hopefully improving. When the market settles a bit, then I'll have enough books and series finished that I can actually think about paid promotions.
For now, I'm sticking with my five year plan. :catrun
I solved that problem. I know people wont buy my books. Except maybe my mom?!?! She doesnt know how to use a computer so that's iffy. I write because the words are demanding to come out of my head (when they arent I cant write a word). I'm going to publish and do the best I can, because that's just the way I am.
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I enjoy writing, so I try not to think about the money. Of course, that's impossible...
Indeed.
I remember many moons ago when I did my newsletter. I tried to do it monthly--not always successful at that--and then I'd print up copies on the dot-matrix printer, separate the sheets and staple them in the corner. I think I sold them for fifteen cents. Later, when I got all fancy and was able to do it as a booklet with more than three pages, I was selling them for a dollar or something.
Never sold many, but my marketing reach was perhaps two dozen people. But, you could see the potential. That once I could advertise to a larger market, I could sell hundreds of copies. Maybe millions, you know? Heck, all you need is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the U.S. population to subscribe to your newsletter and you're a millionaire. I had all the math worked out.
So, it was fun writing. There was always the potential. So much potential. The future was going to be great.
Then, you know, reality. And the reality is you can't even get people to subscribe to stuff for free. I barely have more people on my list that download the free copies of my newsletter than I had paying customers when I used to sell my newsletter.
So, the hope of potential is gone and you're left wondering if you could make more money finding pet-safe paints, dipping your cat's feet in them, letting her run wild on a canvas then marketing the "paintings" as art for $10k a pop.
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I enjoy writing, so I try not to think about the money. Of course, that's impossible...
Indeed.
I remember many moons ago when I did my newsletter. I tried to do it monthly--not always successful at that--and then I'd print up copies on the dot-matrix printer, separate the sheets and staple them in the corner. I think I sold them for fifteen cents. Later, when I got all fancy and was able to do it as a booklet with more than three pages, I was selling them for a dollar or something.
Never sold many, but my marketing reach was perhaps two dozen people. But, you could see the potential. That once I could advertise to a larger market, I could sell hundreds of copies. Maybe millions, you know? Heck, all you need is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the U.S. population to subscribe to your newsletter and you're a millionaire. I had all the math worked out.
So, it was fun writing. There was always the potential. So much potential. The future was going to be great.
Then, you know, reality. And the reality is you can't even get people to subscribe to stuff for free. I barely have more people on my list that download the free copies of my newsletter than I had paying customers when I used to sell my newsletter.
So, the hope of potential is gone and you're left wondering if you could make more money finding pet-safe paints, dipping your cat's feet in them, letting her run wild on a canvas then marketing the "paintings" as art for $10k a pop.
Anything is possible. Look at Keyboard Cat...
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Well, I can assure all of you that when I stop publishing, it will be because the cancer got me and I am either dead or debilitated. There. You'll never have to wonder. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
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DM, you rock! :cheers
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DM, you rock! :cheers
Thanks to the Nobel-prize winning doctors who invented immunotherapy, I have been allowed to rock on a little longer. grint
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... So, the hope of potential is gone and you're left wondering if you could make more money finding pet-safe paints, dipping your cat's feet in them, letting her run wild on a canvas then marketing the "paintings" as art for $10k a pop.
Pet-safe paint... So that's where I went wrong! :doh:
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Anything is possible. Look at Keyboard Cat...
Thanks. That got me thinking. And then I went online to search for cat paw props. And then I ended up on a site I haven't purchased from in a long time and while there I searched for a martian popping thing which they no longer have so then I ended up on Amazon, searching first for cat paw props and then for the martian popping thing. On that second search is where I found the product below, which I will not mention what it is, but since you're the one that started me down this rabbit hole, the following link is entirely your own fault:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BZVLPVB/
I am not buying one. Ew.
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Anything is possible. Look at Keyboard Cat...
Thanks. That got me thinking. And then I went online to search for cat paw props. And then I ended up on a site I haven't purchased from in a long time and while there I searched for a martian popping thing which they no longer have so then I ended up on Amazon, searching first for cat paw props and then for the martian popping thing. On that second search is where I found the product below, which I will not mention what it is, but since you're the one that started me down this rabbit hole, the following link is entirely your own fault:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BZVLPVB/
I am not buying one. Ew.
Oh my God. Why does this exist??
And most of the reviews aren't even jokes.
Mind. Blown.
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Anything is possible. Look at Keyboard Cat...
Thanks. That got me thinking. And then I went online to search for cat paw props. And then I ended up on a site I haven't purchased from in a long time and while there I searched for a martian popping thing which they no longer have so then I ended up on Amazon, searching first for cat paw props and then for the martian popping thing. On that second search is where I found the product below, which I will not mention what it is, but since you're the one that started me down this rabbit hole, the following link is entirely your own fault:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BZVLPVB/
I am not buying one. Ew.
Triple Ew!!! You made me look. :n2Str17:
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All the blame belongs to Lorri. :hehe
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All the blame belongs to Lorri. :hehe
I am not taking responsibility for that thing. Although, I do like keyboard cat. LOL
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All the blame belongs to Lorri. :hehe
I am not taking responsibility for that thing. Although, I do like keyboard cat. LOL
You're the one that started me down the rabbit hole that led to that. :hehe
And do you know what that has wrought?
An eMail today from Amazon recommending this to me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BW44HNZ
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Dan, fool me once. I'm not clicking that link! LOL
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Dan, fool me once. I'm not clicking that link! LOL
Lorri, whatever you do, DON'T CLICK ON THAT LINK.
Here's a llama. Or a bunchee. I don't know.
:banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
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Dan, fool me once. I'm not clicking that link! LOL
Lorri, whatever you do, DON'T CLICK ON THAT LINK.
Here's a llama. Or a bunchee. I don't know.
:banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
LOL :cheers
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It's a bunchie! :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
Also, you know you wanna click. Can you resist not knowing? Never knowing what's there will eat away at you, leaving you wondering if you're missing out on something. What if it was a really good deal or something? Can you really, truly, absolutely handle not knowing? If knowledge is power, why deprive yourself of power? You're only hurting yourself really. Such a shame. Oh well.
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It's a bunchie! :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yBXuEb8lC1mqA/giphy.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PGo2Kn0O4YOYg/giphy.gif)
:dance: :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em :dance: :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em :dance:
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If you accept an assumption that I am a 'good' writer, I stopped writing regularly because I didn't need the money and also my books were making less money. For a while I stopped writing at all and now I am writing a bit more in just-for-fun venues.
People do things for different reasons and those reasons change their situations change.
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Writing is a tough business. It requires lots of effort, hard work and these days, you have to publish fast. Eventually, you're going to burn out. Anyhow, if you've made enough money (and royalties, even though smaller, keep coming in), then it's okay to write whatever you want (rather than publish to market) and at the pace you want (rather than having to publish every 60 days). You're not going to live forever, so why not slow down a little and enjoy life once you've "made it"?
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Writing is a tough business. It requires lots of effort, hard work and these days, you have to publish fast. Eventually, you're going to burn out. Anyhow, if you've made enough money (and royalties, even though smaller, keep coming in), then it's okay to write whatever you want (rather than publish to market) and at the pace you want (rather than having to publish every 60 days). You're not going to live forever, so why not slow down a little and enjoy life once you've "made it"?
Well, I haven't made it yet, but otherwise your describing my situation to an extent.
When I started self-pubbing, I was very naive and had no idea what I was doing. At the time, I was still working, and one full-length book and one short were as much as I could manage. The first year of retirement, I produced three full-length books and three shorts.
However, I retired in part because I was having a hard-time keeping up with the pace. Strangely, I didn't want to work ten to twelve hours a day on weekdays and about five hours a day on weekends. Now I'm realizing that, with the production pace a lot of people need to succeed, I'd have to be working ten to twelve hours a day to make it. I decided I didn't want to keep up that kind of pace anymore. That's what I meant in another thread when I said I was embracing my prawniness. I love writing too much to just stop, but I decided I would stop pushing for bigger and bigger sales. If lightning strikes, I won't be unhappy, but I'm not going to work myself to death to make it strike.
(Of course, I have the luxury of doing that because I don't need the income. If I did, the choice would be much more complicated and difficult.)
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It feels weird to say, but it's nice to realize I'm not alone in dealing with the issues of publishing. I don't have any trouble with the writing, really. I love to write. But the publishing grind gets me down. You have to write to market, you have to be full-on social media, you have to spend X amount to make one-tenth of that in profit. It gets crazy. Add in all the people who are just in it to game KU and make all the money, and it's no wonder some of us are depressed about the whole thing.
When I first learned about self publishing, I guess all I thought about was that finally people like me, people who'd been writing for years or who always planned to write a book, could publish without all the hassles of trying for an agent and hoping the agent could sell a book to a publisher. It was a process that took years and more luck than people want to believe, and I was always too insecure to try it. And I think it would have been mostly folks like me, if Amazon hadn't come up with KU, which is so easy to cheat for big money. :(
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It feels weird to say, but it's nice to realize I'm not alone in dealing with the issues of publishing. I don't have any trouble with the writing, really. I love to write. But the publishing grind gets me down. You have to write to market, you have to be full-on social media, you have to spend X amount to make one-tenth of that in profit. It gets crazy. Add in all the people who are just in it to game KU and make all the money, and it's no wonder some of us are depressed about the whole thing.
When I first learned about self publishing, I guess all I thought about was that finally people like me, people who'd been writing for years or who always planned to write a book, could publish without all the hassles of trying for an agent and hoping the agent could sell a book to a publisher. It was a process that took years and more luck than people want to believe, and I was always too insecure to try it. And I think it would have been mostly folks like me, if Amazon hadn't come up with KU, which is so easy to cheat for big money. :(
Well, we can publish without all those hassles. But you're so right. Self-publishing now has its own set of hassles.
I think the process would be hard even without the cheaters. The sheer number of authors would continue to grow, so that visibility became harder and harder to come by. Even so, it would be nice to be on a level playing field.
I make more money from KU than I do from sales, but I'd be willing to see it go if that were a way to get the system to work better.
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It feels weird to say, but it's nice to realize I'm not alone in dealing with the issues of publishing. I don't have any trouble with the writing, really. I love to write. But the publishing grind gets me down. You have to write to market, you have to be full-on social media, you have to spend X amount to make one-tenth of that in profit. It gets crazy. Add in all the people who are just in it to game KU and make all the money, and it's no wonder some of us are depressed about the whole thing.
When I first learned about self publishing, I guess all I thought about was that finally people like me, people who'd been writing for years or who always planned to write a book, could publish without all the hassles of trying for an agent and hoping the agent could sell a book to a publisher. It was a process that took years and more luck than people want to believe, and I was always too insecure to try it. And I think it would have been mostly folks like me, if Amazon hadn't come up with KU, which is so easy to cheat for big money. :(
This is the reason I keep bring up the need to find a better way of engaging with readers, aka 'publishing'. Squeezing self-publishers has become a huge business. Most of the platforms now employ some form of pay to play, which is practically predatory. The fact that some self-publishers are beating the house doesn't forgive the system, much less legitimize it. They control visibility, pricing, reviews and indirectly, product design, which includes book length. Serials are a prime example. Due to the nature of the acceptable pricing alternatives, not even Amazon could make serials work. And, once again, (because your mileage may vary can't be stressed enough here), just because a handful of self-publishers have cracked the code doesn't make the business model workable. Shorts and serials are extremely difficult to promote due to platform constraints, not because of anything intrinsic about the format itself. Yes, they are a niche product, but low demand does not equate to no demand.
Writing is hard. Writing fiction is really hard. Writing good entertaining fiction is really really f*cking hard. The ability to publish doesn't automatically make us all equally talented. It's the ability to market and game and hat that separates winners and losers now - not the ability to tell a story. In the aggregate, we've finally lived up to all of the jeers traditional publishing has been throwing at us. The elephant in the room is that most Indie work is just not very good, especially once we consider the scammers and hatters. And we all pay the price for every reader that gets burned. Amazon's category lists are a useless clusterf*ck, for both publishers and readers alike.
So, when we look at reports stating that reading is on the decline, I think we have to ask: is it because of a genuine disinterest in written stories, or is it because there's very little worth reading these days. Or, is it because with all of the other entertainment options out there, wading through the morass of sh*t just isn't worth the trouble anymore?
I've backed off from publishing. I just don't see the point of burning good ideas and hard work with the current system. The old mantra was that it's not a sprint, it's a marathon, but when it comes to the current state of promotion, it's a daily sprint with no foreseeable reprieve. Amazon has worked to minimize the influence of third-party promotion sites, such as Bookbub, in an effort to make self-publishers more dependent on AMS. The reality is that they are going to squeeze us more and more, because there's a never-ending crop of 'get rich quick' wannabes jumping into the fray every day.
I'm not being Chicken Little here. Squeeze the platforms back, get all you can, as fast as you can. But I think we have to be cognizant of the fact that the Indie world is due another massive disruption, quite possibly driven by the distribution channels themselves. We can either be forward thinking and help define what that disruption will be, or we can wait to get steamrolled. Again, there are enough scammers, hatters and newbies to keep these distribution channels going no matter how onerous their terms become.
So yeah, I totally agree. Publishing is a mess right now, and that includes traditional publishing. I’m sure many have thrown their hands up in disgust. When we attempt to monetize Art, unfortunately, the first thing to go is usually the Artist.
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It feels weird to say, but it's nice to realize I'm not alone in dealing with the issues of publishing. I don't have any trouble with the writing, really. I love to write. But the publishing grind gets me down. You have to write to market, you have to be full-on social media, you have to spend X amount to make one-tenth of that in profit. It gets crazy. Add in all the people who are just in it to game KU and make all the money, and it's no wonder some of us are depressed about the whole thing.
When I first learned about self publishing, I guess all I thought about was that finally people like me, people who'd been writing for years or who always planned to write a book, could publish without all the hassles of trying for an agent and hoping the agent could sell a book to a publisher. It was a process that took years and more luck than people want to believe, and I was always too insecure to try it. And I think it would have been mostly folks like me, if Amazon hadn't come up with KU, which is so easy to cheat for big money. :(
This is the reason I keep bring up the need to find a better way of engaging with readers, aka 'publishing'. Squeezing self-publishers has become a huge business. Most of the platforms now employ some form of pay to play, which is practically predatory. The fact that some self-publishers are beating the house doesn't forgive the system, much less legitimize it. They control visibility, pricing, reviews and indirectly, product design, which includes book length. Serials are a prime example. Due to the nature of the acceptable pricing alternatives, not even Amazon could make serials work. And, once again, (because your mileage may vary can't be stressed enough here), just because a handful of self-publishers have cracked the code doesn't make the business model workable. Shorts and serials are extremely difficult to promote due to platform constraints, not because of anything intrinsic about the format itself. Yes, they are a niche product, but low demand does not equate to no demand.
Writing is hard. Writing fiction is really hard. Writing good entertaining fiction is really really f*cking hard. The ability to publish doesn't automatically make us all equally talented. It's the ability to market and game and hat that separates winners and losers now - not the ability to tell a story. In the aggregate, we've finally lived up to all of the jeers traditional publishing has been throwing at us. The elephant in the room is that most Indie work is just not very good, especially once we consider the scammers and hatters. And we all pay the price for every reader that gets burned. Amazon's category lists are a useless clusterf*ck, for both publishers and readers alike.
So, when we look at reports stating that reading is on the decline, I think we have to ask: is it because of a genuine disinterest in written stories, or is it because there's very little worth reading these days. Or, is it because with all of the other entertainment options out there, wading through the morass of sh*t just isn't worth the trouble anymore?
I've backed off from publishing. I just don't see the point of burning good ideas and hard work with the current system. The old mantra was that it's not a sprint, it's a marathon, but when it comes to the current state of promotion, it's a daily sprint with no foreseeable reprieve. Amazon has worked to minimize the influence of third-party promotion sites, such as Bookbub, in an effort to make self-publishers more dependent on AMS. The reality is that they are going to squeeze us more and more, because there's a never-ending crop of 'get rich quick' wannabes jumping into the fray every day.
I'm not being Chicken Little here. Squeeze the platforms back, get all you can, as fast as you can. But I think we have to be cognizant of the fact that the Indie world is due another massive disruption, quite possibly driven by the distribution channels themselves. We can either be forward thinking and help define what that disruption will be, or we can wait to get steamrolled. Again, there are enough scammers, hatters and newbies to keep these distribution channels going no matter how onerous their terms become.
So yeah, I totally agree. Publishing is a mess right now, and that includes traditional publishing. I’m sure many have thrown their hands up in disgust. When we attempt to monetize Art, unfortunately, the first thing to go is usually the Artist.
As I recall, I wasn't completely onboard with your proposed solution in another thread, but it's hard to argue with your description of the problem.
I will quibble with your description of indie work a little. I never have trouble finding a good indie book to read. However, I can't deny that there are people out there who at the very least needed more practice before they started publishing, and some scams have resulted in their being a lot of garbage floating around that even its own authors wouldn't have thought of as good.
I derive a little hope from the old saying about not being able to get blood from a turnip. One of the reasons KDP got so flooded was the nonexistent entry cost. That's still technical nonexistent, but as you point out, Amazon is squeezing us hard with stuff like AMS. I guess some people will cling regardless, but a lot of people who aren't immediately successful will fall away, and I think as the actual cost of entry becomes apparent, there may not be an endless flow of newbies to take their place. In other words, there's an upper limit beyond which Amazon's squeezing becomes counterproductive.
The problem with indies is that, like most creative types, it's hard to get us to all move in the same direction. For instance, Amazon might rethink how it handles AMS ads if everyone paused their ads. Amazon might fix KU if everyone unchecked their renewal boxes. Neither of those things will happen. Indies have a lot of collective power, controlling the vast bulk of the KU enrollment and providing well over a third of ebook sales on Amazon. But we'll never reach agreement on how to use it. That powerful genie will stay securely within its bottle.
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Just like Google, the cost of advertising will become so expensive that for many they'll likely have to drop out or reduce their budget by quite a bit.
I don't pay for promotions. Yes, it would definitely be nice to sell more books...but I see this as a short term solution even if I had the money to play, which I do not.
In the long run, I'm hoping good books and an organic following will be enough. :smilie_zauber:
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Distractions. Life. sh*t Happens. :writethink:
Today was my first time really writing for quite a while (well, kind of 'a while' for me is what? a month or so? It feels like forever...). I didn't quit, life just got in the way. My health went tits up, my daughter moved out and to another state, finances got tight and due to slacking on social media, my sales bombed to rock bottom and I got depressed .. which is seriously not good for my health since I found out I have fibromyalgia on top of APS and Lupus and stress is a major issue now rather than something I can just ignore or push through.
Despite all of that, my brain was still in the game. I plotted, I planned, I wrote and dreamed scenes, I created new lives and then ruthlessly destroyed them or built them pretty little HEA's while swearing they would never turn into a series - because I really need to stop bogging myself down with series - :angel: :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
In the end, I couldn't sleep last night, was running scenes through my head and ended up with the start of a new book I didn't need. :doh:
Today, however, is the start of a new day. I am finally giving in to have someone come in to help cook and clean, I am spring cleaning to get rid of all the non-essential crap that has somehow made its way into my house, and I should have the privacy and uninterrupted time to write as much as I want from this point forward. So, I guess we will see how I do without all the distractions and exhaustion that comes from all of the above...
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Distractions. Life. sh*t Happens. :writethink:
Today was my first time really writing for quite a while (well, kind of 'a while' for me is what? a month or so? It feels like forever...). I didn't quit, life just got in the way. My health went tits up, my daughter moved out and to another state, finances got tight and due to slacking on social media, my sales bombed to rock bottom and I got depressed .. which is seriously not good for my health since I found out I have fibromyalgia on top of APS and Lupus and stress is a major issue now rather than something I can just ignore or push through.
Despite all of that, my brain was still in the game. I plotted, I planned, I wrote and dreamed scenes, I created new lives and then ruthlessly destroyed them or built them pretty little HEA's while swearing they would never turn into a series - because I really need to stop bogging myself down with series - :angel: :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
In the end, I couldn't sleep last night, was running scenes through my head and ended up with the start of a new book I didn't need. :doh:
Today, however, is the start of a new day. I am finally giving in to have someone come in to help cook and clean, I am spring cleaning to get rid of all the non-essential crap that has somehow made its way into my house, and I should have the privacy and uninterrupted time to write as much as I want from this point forward. So, I guess we will see how I do without all the distractions and exhaustion that comes from all of the above...
And....she's back!!! :cheers :goodpost:
Good to see you, Pandorra!
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Writing sucks? Oh, I’m with you Joe. And with Dorothy Parker about the “hate writing, love having written” thing.
I’ve been at this game for nine years and last week - not for the first time - I finally quit. The struggle just got too much. I’m too old, too frail for this sh*t. Why bother when (from 16 books in 3 series) I made all of £114 last month. Bah! Pitiful.
Add in a beta reader saying that the first in a new series had “run on sentences” and “the point of view changed within the scene” - yeah, so what? It’s allowed - and I threw in the towel.
Yesterday, I began plotting the next one. *Sigh* I’ll never learn, but as someone upthread said, I get depressed - and the guilt, oh gods! The guilt - when I don’t write. I can’t walk away. I’ve nothing to walk away to. :icon_cry:
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Distractions. Life. sh*t Happens. :writethink:
Today was my first time really writing for quite a while (well, kind of 'a while' for me is what? a month or so? It feels like forever...). I didn't quit, life just got in the way. My health went tits up, my daughter moved out and to another state, finances got tight and due to slacking on social media, my sales bombed to rock bottom and I got depressed .. which is seriously not good for my health since I found out I have fibromyalgia on top of APS and Lupus and stress is a major issue now rather than something I can just ignore or push through.
Despite all of that, my brain was still in the game. I plotted, I planned, I wrote and dreamed scenes, I created new lives and then ruthlessly destroyed them or built them pretty little HEA's while swearing they would never turn into a series - because I really need to stop bogging myself down with series - :angel: :banana-riding-llama-smiley-em
In the end, I couldn't sleep last night, was running scenes through my head and ended up with the start of a new book I didn't need. :doh:
Today, however, is the start of a new day. I am finally giving in to have someone come in to help cook and clean, I am spring cleaning to get rid of all the non-essential crap that has somehow made its way into my house, and I should have the privacy and uninterrupted time to write as much as I want from this point forward. So, I guess we will see how I do without all the distractions and exhaustion that comes from all of the above...
And....she's back!!! :cheers :goodpost:
Good to see you, Pandorra!
lol.. ty dear!
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What a great thread!
I stopped partway through reading it (I will revert and digest the rest after posting this) as I wanted to say that Eugene MacRae made such an important point. Social media can be a blessing or a true-life nightmare, with online bullying often pulling down even the most stalwart of people. It takes but a few comments of a certain type to bring out the mob mentality in some people, and this is one reason I loathe social media and don't use it as an author--although I happily buy paid ads on Facebook for both my authoring and copyediting businesses.
I have seen so many people belittled and bullied online for no reason at all. It's enough to make you pull your presence down overnight. Except, of course, you can't...and that also is a scary thing, that once you're there, you're stuck and immortalised even when you pull down your profile.
So, I also thought social media may have something to do with why some authors stop writing, but I think the main reason may be that the authors pulled out of writing and self-publishing because they believed their writing was no good.
Poor sales or total absence of sales is often mentioned to me when authors put forward series for copyediting, even if their books were edited quite well prior to self-publishing. They make the assumption that the books must be poor, as "nobody's buying them." There can be few things more dispiriting than taking, say, five years producing the first series and then not getting a solitary sale.
I'm sure most writers on here would agree that books being poor is not the natural conclusion to draw when sales are not happening. Poor marketing--or the absence of marketing--is the likely culprit. I receive so many superb books and series for copyediting, yet their sales records are fairly abysmal. (Is there such a thing as 'fairly abysmal'...but it seemed okay at the time!)
I have today come across a writer who sent me forty-six pages to edit, and who said he hadn't sold one copy, but I was blown away by this little book. had he marketed it in a professional manner? Had he invested in it? No. He had written it and uploaded it, and left it to sell itself. Well, of course, it didn't so he was sure he was a useless writer.
Last year, I edited two series that I was sure would sell, but again, the authors didn't invest in any marketing (I mean, they didn't put funds in, or time...and they don't frequent the forums to learn from other authors like yourselves who are way more proficient at the craft). So, both have given up as they never sold a copy...because nobody even knew the books were out there to be purchased.
They are great books and I know that a few ads or even some giveaways would move these series. One of them wrote five books in a series before he put any forward for editing, each book being around 100k words. It was a great achievement and the end result was polished even before being sent to me. But then he uploaded them all at once and just hoped they'd move.
It makes me want to bang my head on the wall when this author and others like him will just assume the books should somehow find their readers with no effort at all beyond writing them. What a waste!
Sometimes, authors do simply disappear--literally. Did everyone see the case of British author Helen Bailey whose YA series was earning her more than a few hundred £k per annum, and then she disappeared? Truly sad. Horrific, in fact.
Annie.