Writer Sanctum
Writer's Haven => Quill and Feather Pub [Public] => Topic started by: Shoe on September 29, 2019, 09:17:27 AM
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In the U.S. we say "Amazon is opening...". Everywhere else in the world people say "Amazon are opening...". If a character in one of my books says "How is your family?" and not "How are your family?" will a Brit cringe?
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I see it as depending on context, and what comes next.
Amazon is opening employee mail.
Amazon are about to open a new office.
Is sounds present tense. Are seems to indicate future tense.
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I see it as depending on context, and what comes next.
Amazon is opening employee mail.
Amazon are about to open a new office.
Is sounds present tense. Are seems to indicate future tense.
I think it's just that we have different rules for collective nouns. Pulled from VOA's "Six Differences Between British and American English":
Collective nouns
There are a few grammatical differences between the two varieties of English. Let’s start with collective nouns. We use collective nouns to refer to a group of individuals.
In American English, collective nouns are singular. For example, staff refers to a group of employees; band refers to a group of musicians; team refers to a group of athletes. Americans would say, “The band is good.”
But in British English, collective nouns can be singular or plural. You might hear someone from Britain say, “The team are playing tonight” or “The team is playing tonight.”
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Don't forget the "ain't" exception.
Amazon ain't gonna open a new office. (contraction of is not)
Amazon ain't gonna open a new office. (contraction of are not)
All hail the powerful "ain't," the all-purpose negative! :icon_mrgreen:
As to the question of Brits cringing, I'm sure they're just as capable of tolerating our linguistic quirks as we are of tolerating theirs. I personally enjoy reading books written in foreign vernacular so long as they're actually readable and don't come across as gibberish. I find the differences "interesting," not "bad." I suspect the Brits feel the same way. And, of course, America's pop culture is our biggest (and most embarrassing) export, so the whole world should be quite used to our ways by now.
My advice: Go with whichever construction you prefer and don't sweat it.
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I find the differences interesting, and have no trouble adapting to some strange foreign idiom for the duration of a novel.
So, go ahead and use US english, and I'm sure the bulk of the world's 1.5 billion English speakers will adapt ;-)
For example, when you mention miles and inches in your novel, be aware that only three countries on the entire planet still use that measurement system. But the rest of us have learned to convert, and I promise we don't throw our ebook readers across the room in disgust.
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In the U.S. we say "Amazon is opening...". Everywhere else in the world people say "Amazon are opening...". If a character in one of my books says "How is your family?" and not "How are your family?" will a Brit cringe?
Hmm... I think it's the same in Canada. I can't claim to speak for an entire nation of course, but my tiny slice of anecdotal evidence is I don't think I would ever say, "Amazon are opening...". Must be a hold over from when we were still one big happy family in 1775. :hehe
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I'm not worried about usage in my books, but it always gets me in the forums when I see it.
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In the U.S. we say "Amazon is opening...". Everywhere else in the world people say "Amazon are opening...". If a character in one of my books says "How is your family?" and not "How are your family?" will a Brit cringe?
As a Brit, I wouldn't see it as a problem, in fact you are just as likely to hear either phrasing from people young or old over here. 'Proper' English is like most things, context appropriate in everyday life. Only someone who really has an issue with it is likely to point it out.
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Having nothing at all to do with the above, I have always found it fascinating that Americans say "I am going to the hospital." while Brits will normally say "I am going to hospital." In fact, there are a several nouns with his Americans generally use a definite article and Brits generally do not. I think of doctor and university, but there may be others. No clue why. 🤔
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And yet Americans frequently say "I am going to convention" instead of "I am going to the convention."
Where? I've lived in the East Coast all my life and never heard this, unless you are using the title of something.
"I am going to Comiccon"
"I am going to Warren Miller" or "I am going to the Warren Miller movie"
or maybe more likely
"I am going to Endgame" or "I am going to the Endgame movie"
not
"I am going to Endgame movie" sounds weird without the "the".
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And yet Americans frequently say "I am going to convention" instead of "I am going to the convention."
Where? I've lived in the East Coast all my life and never heard this, unless you are using the title of something.
"I am going to Comiccon"
"I am going to Warren Miller" or "I am going to the Warren Miller movie"
or maybe more likely
"I am going to Endgame" or "I am going to the Endgame movie"
not
"I am going to Endgame movie" sounds weird without the "the".
Midwest here and I haven't heard people talk about "going to convention" either. It's always "going to the convention."
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Going to convention? Never have heard that in my neck of the woods either. :D Only when it's a proper noun like Comic Con. But I do hear a lot of "I'm going to the Walmart"! So I guess that means Walmart has become an institution now, like a hospital or a university. :D Someday I may hear "I'm going to buy that from the Amazon" and won't that be confusing. :-)
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In the U.S. we say "Amazon is opening...". Everywhere else in the world people say "Amazon are opening...". If a character in one of my books says "How is your family?" and not "How are your family?" will a Brit cringe?
Hmm... I think it's the same in Canada. I can't claim to speak for an entire nation of course, but my tiny slice of anecdotal evidence is I don't think I would ever say, "Amazon are opening...". Must be a hold over from when we were still one big happy family in 1775. :hehe
Confirmed! Canada's really a bizarre mish-mash.
You can't be right for everyone all the time, but you can signal which style you're using and then use it consistently. Problems arise when we mix styles—then it looks like a mistake to everyone. One of the most frequent examples I see is using "leaped" and "leapt" in the same book.
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Is it an emergency room or emergency dept? ER or ED? Around here it's ED now. When I put it in a book though...
Now I'm trying to remember which of my books don't have a visit to the ED in them.
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There's no end to the differing usages once you dig a little (for example: http://www.onestopenglish.com/grammar/grammar-reference/american-english-vs-british-english/differences-in-american-and-british-english-grammar-article/152820.article ).
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Is it an emergency room or emergency dept? ER or ED? Around here it's ED now. When I put it in a book though...
Now I'm trying to remember which of my books don't have a visit to the ED in them.
And in Britain it would be A&E (Accident and Emergency).
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Having nothing at all to do with the above, I have always found it fascinating that Americans say "I am going to the hospital." while Brits will normally say "I am going to hospital." In fact, there are a several nouns with his Americans generally use a definite article and Brits generally do not. I think of doctor and university, but there may be others. No clue why. 🤔
Same here. I find these language differences interesting. And I've never heard "Amazon are."
The only time I use "were" for a singular or collective noun is when it's a subjunctive.
Think of Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof: If I were a rich man...
Don't forget the "ain't" exception.
Amazon ain't gonna open a new office. (contraction of is not)
Amazon ain't gonna open a new office. (contraction of are not)
All hail the powerful "ain't," the all-purpose negative! :icon_mrgreen:
My advice: Go with whichever construction you prefer and don't sweat it.
Too bad most of my characters wouldn't use it. But I love ain't
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I reserve 'ain't' for true c*ckneys. Otherwise all my characters sound like Dick van Dyke.
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I agree with the idea that people will adapt. I watch TV series from the UK, Australia, and New Zealand and am never bothered by the difference in idioms.
It's worth noting that at some point in the Harry Potter series, I think around the third book, American fans realized that they weren't getting JK Rowling's actual words and started ordering hard copies from Amazon UK. The American publisher was irritated by that--but the American edition of the next volume in the Harry Potter series wasn't Americanized.
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The internet has played a huge part in exposing people to different flavours of English. For many, alternate spellings don't raise an eyebrow.
It must be tougher for the massive proportion of the population for whom English is not their first language. I grew up in the SE of Spain, and just before I left they passed a law saying the official language was changing from Castillian ('regular' spanish) to Valenciano (more basque-like, e.g. catalan.) In 12 short months they introduced valencian lessons in schools, because from the following year ALL schooling (and text books) were to be in valencian. All local govt dealings, road signs, everything.
I can understand them trying to preserve their heritage, but... I'm pretty sure if you took a student from the south east of spain and the north west of spain, their common language these days would probably be ... English. Way to preserve the heritage.
That was a bit of a digression, but it does make me smile a bit when people fret over US vs UK english. Imagine if English was fractured into dozens of very different dialects, none of them remotely compatible. Then we'd have a robust discussion... if we could actually understand each other.
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If the character is saying it, then what matters is what the character would realistically say. Dialogue doesn't have to be grammatically correct. The only thing that looks odd is when it doesn't match the character's background. Like if they're from the US, then they should use American English. If they're from the UK, they should use British English.
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The internet has played a huge part in exposing people to different flavours of English. For many, alternate spellings don't raise an eyebrow.
It must be tougher for the massive proportion of the population for whom English is not their first language. I grew up in the SE of Spain, and just before I left they passed a law saying the official language was changing from Castillian ('regular' spanish) to Valenciano (more basque-like, e.g. catalan.) In 12 short months they introduced valencian lessons in schools, because from the following year ALL schooling (and text books) were to be in valencian. All local govt dealings, road signs, everything.
I can understand them trying to preserve their heritage, but... I'm pretty sure if you took a student from the south east of spain and the north west of spain, their common language these days would probably be ... English. Way to preserve the heritage.
That was a bit of a digression, but it does make me smile a bit when people fret over US vs UK english. Imagine if English was fractured into dozens of very different dialects, none of them remotely compatible. Then we'd have a robust discussion... if we could actually understand each other.
Oh, that happens. Not long ago an English MP in a debate in the House of Commons insisted he could not understand what a certain Glaswegian MP was saying when he asked a question. After three times repeating the question, the MP wrote his question. (I could understand him but a lot of people insist Glaswegian is impossible to understand unless you're Glaswegian)
And I still smile over the bafflement in a graduate-level seminar I took at the University of Texas when the Brooklynite professor looked at a male student and said, "You're hot." After a profound moment of silence, the student said, "Oh. Yes. My name is Hart." Relieved laughter.