Writer Sanctum
Writer's Haven => Quill and Feather Pub [Public] => Topic started by: Joe Vasicek on January 03, 2020, 11:05:45 AM
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It's that magical time of year again, when everyone makes their yearly predictions! Here are Mark Coker's.
2020 Publishing Predictions: House of Indie on Fire (https://blog.smashwords.com/2019/12/publishingpredictions.html)
- Sanctions coming against Amazon and Facebook
- Backlash coming against Amazon Ads for stealing author platform
- Audiobooks disappoint
- Most indies to forgo audiobook opportunity
- Single-copy ebook sales face continued pressure from Kindle Unlimited
- Platform ownership to become a top indie imperative
- Indies will redouble efforts to build their mailing lists
- Ebook presales join the author’s best practices toolbox
- Romance Writers of America faces make or break year in 2020
- Ebook sales will rise if major book-buying countries enter recession
Thoughts? Opinions? Small furry animals?
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Sanctions from whom?
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A small furry animal! Woohoo!
I believe that by "sanctions," Coker means some sort of anti-trust action here in the United States. On the extreme end, that would mean that the government breaks up Amazon and Facebook into smaller companies.
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I went back into KU a few weeks ago and books that had stopped selling are now being read. For a prawn like me, that's a win.
I'll never recoup my investment in audiobooks and will not do any more. But if it weren't for audio whispersync sales (ignoring the initial investment), I wouldn't make any money on paid advertising. There is no ROI. Just chipping away at the mountain.
(https://rangerrick.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Featured_meerkats-1.jpg)
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What does #2 "Backlash coming against Amazon Ads for stealing author platform" mean? Ads on our product pages?
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What does #2 "Backlash coming against Amazon Ads for stealing author platform" mean? Ads on our product pages?
In a word, yes.
It's worth reading the full post, even if you don't agree with it. As I understand it, his central thesis regarding Amazon ads is that they turn KDP into a pay-to-play publishing platform that buries authors who don't play the game.
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I went back into KU a few weeks ago and books that had stopped selling are now being read. For a prawn like me, that's a win.
I'm in the same boat. I just put all my books back into KU in August and have seen a boatload of page reads. I just started putting Mark Dawson's Ads course into action and I'm getting sales and reads on the second book in the horror series, where it didn't do much of anything before that. And I'm not even advertising that book. It's simply getting read-through from the first book which is getting advertised.
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It's worth reading the full post, even if you don't agree with it.
I gave it a look, and then another look.
One of his #2 points isn't accurate ("Amazon replaced their also bought shelves with sponsored ad shelves") My pages all show ABs.
I kind of like that I can get my ad to show another author's product page (it's reciprocal, it works), ESPECIALLY in searches. I don't feel it's "trampling" on another author's "platform". It's just marketing.
As for the rest, I guess it's wait and see.
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It's worth reading the full post, even if you don't agree with it.
One of his #2 points isn't accurate ("Amazon replaced their also bought shelves with sponsored ad shelves") My pages all show ABs.
I kind of like that I can get my ad to show another's author product page (it's reciprocal, it works), ESPECIALLY in searches. I don't feel it's "trampling" on another author's "platform". It's just marketing.
I see also-boughts, too.
Frankly, I'd love to see ABs replaced with another line of ads. I have good placement in ABs, but I have greater control over ads.
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I disagree with most of Mark's predictions. I appreciate everything he's done for indie authors, but I think he needs to focus less on Amazon and more on making his own platform the best one around for both readers and publishers.
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I disagree with most of Mark's predictions. I appreciate everything he's done for indie authors, but I think he needs to focus less on Amazon and more on making his own platform the best one around for both readers and publishers.
Agreed. It's a store and it's easy to use, and even cooler than that, it offers multiple formats for people who care. It could be so much better than it is. Seriously, it's a store and it offers every kind of book imaginable and international buyers can use it. What's stopping him from building it out into something awesome?
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What's stopping him from building it out into something awesome?
Coker or anyone else, but in his case, you'd think by now he would be in a position to know if it could be done. Does Smashwords distribute traditionally published books? I took a quick look and didn't find any (emphasis on "quick').
I noted in the linked post that Coker uses the phrase "indie movement" a couple of times. What movement?
He also mentioned "industry watchers" are trying to divide indies into two camps ("serious professionals and the amateur hobbyists"). I think this deserves more attention. The gulf is widening between those who have made it (whatever that means) and those struggling to get legs in publishing.
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I disagree with most of Mark's predictions. I appreciate everything he's done for indie authors, but I think he needs to focus less on Amazon and more on making his own platform the best one around for both readers and publishers.
Agreed. It's a store and it's easy to use, and even cooler than that, it offers multiple formats for people who care. It could be so much better than it is. Seriously, it's a store and it offers every kind of book imaginable and international buyers can use it. What's stopping him from building it out into something awesome?
Yes, I agree. I really like Smashwords in many ways and I have stuck with them even when the meatgrinder has driven me mad, but although they have quite a pretty front page now, I am not impressed with the books they fill it with. I think they should be featuring a wider range of genres there.On the other hand, I like my profile page much better than the Amazon one, and I always direct my readers there if they have one of their summer, Christmas etc sales.
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From the Smashwords homepage:
Words Published:
18,690,371,136
Books Published:
526,550
Free Books:
81,762
Books on Sale:
3,430
I don't know how to sell on Smashwords. I'm kind of stunned by the free to on sale ratio. I've thought the adult content warning was the reason I can't move books there. My books have sex in them, not a lot, but it's more on the graphic side, so I check off the adult content. But maybe people just go there for free books. And there is a whole lot of erotica cheaper than my books.
The site is nice. Is there anything from stopping him from carrying print books? He could use the wholesaler discount to take a smaller cut to get the ball rolling. I'm totally clueless on the print side of this so maybe I am making some incorrect assumptions.
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"Audiobooks disappoint
Most indies to forgo audiobook opportunity"
^^Appear to contradict each other.
A friend keeps asking me to do audiobooks. Everyone warns against Amazon so I checked out the prices on Findaway. They are simply not viable for me, plus doing the audio is a time suck that I do not have the time for, and it is venturing into an area in which I have zero expertise. In other words, a big financial risk. If "audiobooks disappoint," what is my big opportunity that I'm going to forgo?
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Predictions are hard, especially about the future.
I appreciate Mark and and glad he's on the scene, but if he were good at predictions, Smashwords would be bigger than it is.
So, use your salt, everyone.
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if he were good at predictions, Smashwords would be bigger than it is.
Perhaps. But the traits that enable a person to accurately predict success aren't the same as the ones required to make success.
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I appreciate Mark and glad he's on the scene, but if he were good at predictions, Smashwords would be bigger than it is.
I suspect it was doomed from becoming a contender from the start. In 2008, who was starving for a good self-published book? Anyone? As it turned out, almost no one, which is why Smashwords didn't approach its wavering profitability until it began distributing to Apple, Amazon, and other retailers, ones which also sold traditionally published books.
Then his indie books began to sell, but not because they were self-published, or better or worse than traditionally published books. They began to sell because their books appeared alongside traditionally published and edited books and the general buying public didn't have a f*cking clue they were self-published. So when Coker mentions the "indie movement" I think he's full of pandering hot air, unless mimicking traditionally vetted and published books (recall Kboards mantra--"Cover! Title! Blurb!") is a movement.
His comments on author platforms are also misguided. Mark Dawson writes fine books, but I doubt he would have gotten anywhere in publishing if he hadn't been able to ad-spend his way up the rankings to sit alongside James Patterson, John le Carre, and Lee Child on the bestseller lists. The same goes for any of us. Six of my top ten AMS keywords are traditionally published authors. I want my books to appear on their product pages. I want customers to think my book was vetted too and had earned the right to appear there. Today, Mark Dawson's success stands on his own, and he's the first one to tell you this is how he got where he is.
Unless already established with a healthy mailing list and ad budget, an indie's books are only found because the general public is looking for something else. I don't think there's any higher truth in self-publishing.
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I've generally found Mark's predictions to be credible, year after year. This year he had a bit of extra salt for Amazon exclusivity, and it made me wonder if Smashwords is struggling.
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What does #2 "Backlash coming against Amazon Ads for stealing author platform" mean? Ads on our product pages?
In a word, yes.
It's worth reading the full post, even if you don't agree with it. As I understand it, his central thesis regarding Amazon ads is that they turn KDP into a pay-to-play publishing platform that buries authors who don't play the game.
Every business has to advertise, and most indie authors are running a business whether they like it or not. Before I put all my stuff in KU, the only way I could get my work to sell on stores (outside Amazon) was via bookbubs. That was too hit and miss for me, and at least with KU I can advertise on AMS knowing that will lead to sales + pagereads.
As for audio, I estimated around 12 months to earn back the cost of recording each of my books, and it's tracking that way. I never subscribed to all the 'audio is the new ebook' fanfare, but I'm happy for the audio royalties to supplement my ebook sales. Also, paying for the narration and engineering up front made for a decent tax deduction.
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As for audio, I estimated around 12 months to earn back the cost of recording each of my books, and it's tracking that way.
I haven't ventured into audio. Would it be reasonable to expect production costs to come down in another year? (I'm in no hurry.)
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As for audio, I estimated around 12 months to earn back the cost of recording each of my books, and it's tracking that way.
I haven't ventured into audio. Would it be reasonable to expect production costs to come down in another year? (I'm in no hurry.)
I'm not an expert, having only done two, but in the years I've been watching the situation (from 2014), the production costs haven't gone down.
Prices go down for some things, like new technology, as the company gets its initial investment paid off and perhaps also manufactures more efficiently. I suppose it's possible to imagine a narrator pricing services higher in the beginning to help defray equipment costs and then dropping them later, but I haven't ever seen that happen. That's party because narrators with more experience can command a higher rate, so if anything, their fees go up over time.
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As for audio, I estimated around 12 months to earn back the cost of recording each of my books, and it's tracking that way.
I haven't ventured into audio. Would it be reasonable to expect production costs to come down in another year? (I'm in no hurry.)
I'm not an expert, having only done two, but in the years I've been watching the situation (from 2014), the production costs haven't gone down.
Prices go down for some things, like new technology, as the company gets its initial investment paid off and perhaps also manufactures more efficiently. I suppose it's possible to imagine a narrator pricing services higher in the beginning to help defray equipment costs and then dropping them later, but I haven't ever seen that happen. That's party because narrators with more experience can command a higher rate, so if anything, their fees go up over time.
Not only that, but I've heard a lot of grumblings that you make less profit on audio than you used to, because of a variety of policies that have been put into place.
The growing audio market hasn't made up the difference for a lot of people (maybe it will, eventually, but that's speculation (the gambling kind)). :D
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Even just over the course of 2019 I've seen my audio income go down a bit (even with more titles out toward the end of the year) and one factor is that when I see the royalty reports, there does seem to be more ways the customer can essentially not pay full price. (And I understand the urge, full price audiobooks are not cheap.)
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I'm not an expert, having only done two, but in the years I've been watching the situation (from 2014), the production costs haven't gone down.
I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time. It's not like building a widget, where the parts will get cheaper as more are ordered to complete the manufacturing process. To do an audiobook, you are paying a person to sit down and narrate the book. It's not going to get any faster or cheaper to get that done. As a matter of fact, as time goes on, the price will probably go up, as hourly wages go up.
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I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time.
AI.
My freebie text-to-speech software is about 80% there already. Maybe more.
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I'm not an expert, having only done two, but in the years I've been watching the situation (from 2014), the production costs haven't gone down.
I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time. It's not like building a widget, where the parts will get cheaper as more are ordered to complete the manufacturing process. To do an audiobook, you are paying a person to sit down and narrate the book. It's not going to get any faster or cheaper to get that done. As a matter of fact, as time goes on, the price will probably go up, as hourly wages go up.
You are correct. I do audio. For me, the recording is the easy part (unless I'm having a bad day), but the editing takes so much time. If all is well in the waveform, it takes at least 20 minutes to edit one minute of raw audio. If things sound poopy for whatever reason (lots of pops and clicks), it can take a lot longer.
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I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time.
AI.
My freebie text-to-speech software is about 80% there already. Maybe more.
Would authors be out of the loop on AI? Wouldn't Amazon just offer an AI reader and just make it work with the book file? Authors could offer a read aloud book version where, for example, you put the commas in so it sounds a lot more natural. Just speculating. It will take a while for AI to be good enough, I think, and popular narrators will be okay, but it will be harder for new ones to break in.
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I'm not an expert, having only done two, but in the years I've been watching the situation (from 2014), the production costs haven't gone down.
I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time. It's not like building a widget, where the parts will get cheaper as more are ordered to complete the manufacturing process. To do an audiobook, you are paying a person to sit down and narrate the book. It's not going to get any faster or cheaper to get that done. As a matter of fact, as time goes on, the price will probably go up, as hourly wages go up.
Low prices already exist in every freelance-driven market.
Authors can get audio done for dirt cheap. They just have to be willing to sacrifice quality and reliability. That could mean hiring someone from India. Or it might mean hiring a high school student who's doing audio as a side hustle.
Hopefully, none of us take that route. It results in crap products.
Quality producers will always command a premium.
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I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time.
AI.
My freebie text-to-speech software is about 80% there already. Maybe more.
I wonder, though, if audiobooks with AI narrators will spin off into a different product class, kind of like mass market paperback vs. hardcover. Many audiobook geeks really do make their picks based on the narrator. I can see a future where audiobooks done by top narrators command the higher prices we currently see for audiobooks, where the AI narrated books are priced more like indie ebooks.
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I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time.
AI.
My freebie text-to-speech software is about 80% there already. Maybe more.
I wonder, though, if audiobooks with AI narrators will spin off into a different product class, kind of like mass market paperback vs. hardcover. Many audiobook geeks really do make their picks based on the narrator. I can see a future where audiobooks done by top narrators command the higher prices we currently see for audiobooks, where the AI narrated books are priced more like indie ebooks.
I can attest to the fact that narrator reputation makes a difference. When I decided to do the audio book for my bestselling title, I went with the narrator who had by far the most titles already produced and whose titles had strong customer reviews. He was pricier, but I thought i'd experiment and see what happened. I've never really figured out how to promote audio books, but I sold hundreds of this particular title, far more than my earlier effort, and when I looked at the Audible page the other day, I was surprised to see that the audio version of the title had about 85 reviews, all organic. (The ebook has 61). So yes, narrators have fan bases of their own, and that can make a big difference. (Whether it's enough to get the book to eventually earn out is another question.
Cheap AI-narrated books? Maybe. What I've heard so far suggests that the technology was a way to go before it reaches viability in that area.
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I've heard the same thing re: narrator reputation.
I do the read aloud in word on my books. Right now, you need to put commas in and "…" to get the pauses you want. Read aloud can't differentiate from read present and past tense. It says "that" funny for some reason. But I think doing a custom file specifically for AI wouldn't be that challenging. (I don't know why I think that because I'm too scared to try dropbox on my smart phone but I do. I know I am very good at putting in commas.) If you had male and female voices available (say 3 for each) you could insert changes for the point of view at the start of a chapter pretty easily. If I had to insert a code to change the voice for each line of conversation in the book, ugh, no, I'm out.
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http://deepzen.io/
We provide sector-specific voice solutions to create audiobooks and voiceovers through ground-breaking technology. We produce and co-publish audiobooks using artificial intelligence that synthesizes the human voice to replicate emotions and intonations.
Our technology reduces the cost of production and speeds up the process significantly.
We partner with publishers, media outlets, gaming companies and advertising agencies to provide high-quality voice solutions. We collaborate with narrators and voiceover artists to ensure they are being fairly compensated for their work.
Apparently, a voice artist can create a set of recordings to have their voice placed in the voicebank and used to create AI-produced audiobooks. I filled out the form to request information and asked about the price, but they never responded.
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A timely article from the BBC. It appears production values can go through the roof, something I wasn't aware of:
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20200104-audiobooks-the-rise-and-rise-of-the-books-you-dont-read
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I'm thinking prices won't go down, because production costs are based on people's time.
AI.
My freebie text-to-speech software is about 80% there already. Maybe more.
That's all well and good, but if I remember correctly, Amazon and Audible both have rules prohibiting the uploading of audio files done by text-to-speech programs. I can also imagine that a person that uploaded a T2S file that was done to sound like Morgan Freeman, they'd be getting a call from his lawyers.
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... That's all well and good, but if I remember correctly, Amazon and Audible both have rules prohibiting the uploading of audio files done by text-to-speech programs. ...
They do have that rule. I asked DeepZen if they had a plan to deal with it, but they never responded.
... I wonder, though, if audiobooks with AI narrators will spin off into a different product class, kind of like mass market paperback vs. hardcover. Many audiobook geeks really do make their picks based on the narrator. I can see a future where audiobooks done by top narrators command the higher prices we currently see for audiobooks, where the AI narrated books are priced more like indie ebooks.
This sounds very plausible as a first step toward AI-narration adoption by the broader market. Once it becomes indistinguishable, it won't matter who/what does the narration.
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Amazon and Audible both have rules prohibiting the uploading of audio files done by text-to-speech programs.
For now. Down the road when some intern mentions what a sh*tload of money they could make totally AIing audible they may change their tune. I'm not sure where I heard this but it's often said money rules.
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http://deepzen.io/
We provide sector-specific voice solutions to create audiobooks and voiceovers through ground-breaking technology. We produce and co-publish audiobooks using artificial intelligence that synthesizes the human voice to replicate emotions and intonations.
Our technology reduces the cost of production and speeds up the process significantly.
We partner with publishers, media outlets, gaming companies and advertising agencies to provide high-quality voice solutions. We collaborate with narrators and voiceover artists to ensure they are being fairly compensated for their work.
Apparently, a voice artist can create a set of recordings to have their voice placed in the voicebank and used to create AI-produced audiobooks. I filled out the form to request information and asked about the price, but they never responded.
The samples sound decent, but it would be more impressive to see a list of the projects, or at least the companies deepzen has partnered with.
However, using an actual narrator's voice and having the AI somehow figure out how to apply it in specific situations is an interesting concept. Given the narrower range of emotions used in audio books (as opposed to what you'd need for full-on acting), perhaps something like this could work.
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However, using an actual narrator's voice and having the AI somehow figure out how to apply it in specific situations is an interesting concept. Given the narrower range of emotions used in audio books (as opposed to what you'd need for full-on acting), perhaps something like this could work.
I just had TTS Reader read several posts from this page and the voiced followed everyone's punctuation perfectly.
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I decided to use the royalty-split with ACX and I'm very happy with the results. It took a while to find narrators willing to work for just the royalty split and not an extra fee, but they are out there. :smilie_zauber:
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However, using an actual narrator's voice and having the AI somehow figure out how to apply it in specific situations is an interesting concept. Given the narrower range of emotions used in audio books (as opposed to what you'd need for full-on acting), perhaps something like this could work.
I just had TTS Reader read several posts from this page and the voiced followed everyone's punctuation perfectly.
But, if you put all the commas in, to cue AI where the pauses will be in the speech, wouldn't the extra commas be annoying to the reader?
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But, if you put all the commas in, to cue AI where the pauses will be in the speech, wouldn't the extra commas be annoying to the reader?
What's an example of putting in extra commas to cue speech? I don't think it would be necessary, but again, I'm not savvy when it comes to producing audible books.
TSS Reader is a Chrome extension, so it's easy to test yourself (if you use the Chrome browser):
https://ttsreader.com/
edit: Just highlight any text on a page, any page, and it will read it. You can choose voices.
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But, if you put all the commas in, to cue AI where the pauses will be in the speech, wouldn't the extra commas be annoying to the reader?
It would, but you're not publishing the "Audible" script. You would have a completely different manuscript for the TTS program to read from that the reader is never going to see.
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That's my point. One ebook and one separate AI readable file for audio. I think Amazon is likely to be the first one offering the option for authors to do this. I don't see it happening this year, but two or three years down the road, sure.
I haven't tried the TTSReader that Shoe posted but I am interested in checking it out later.
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It would, but you're not publishing the "Audible" script. You would have a completely different manuscript for the TTS program to read from that the reader is never going to see.
Don't the audiobook and ebook have to match exactly (Whispersync)?
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It would, but you're not publishing the "Audible" script. You would have a completely different manuscript for the TTS program to read from that the reader is never going to see.
Don't the audiobook and ebook have to match exactly (Whispersync)?
I'm interested in the answer to this as well. You could provide a better audio experience if they didn't, I think.
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For the Whispersync version, yes, they have to be identical.
If you go non-exclusive with Audible (lower royalties) there are any number of possibilities to do other versions with enhanced audio:
https://www.graphicaudio.net/ (https://www.graphicaudio.net/)
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But, if you put all the commas in, to cue AI where the pauses will be in the speech, wouldn't the extra commas be annoying to the reader?
Sorry, what?
If there is a pause in speech, there should be a comma. The whole point of the comma is to indicate to the reader there is a pause in the speech there.
If the commas are missing, they are actually missing, and should be added into the eBook.
I get accused of putting too many in, but where I put them, is exactly where if the sentence was spoken, the pauses would be. And that's how it should be.
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I get accused of putting too many in, but where I put them, is exactly where if the sentence was spoken, the pauses would be. And that's how it should be.
So, in, other, words, if, I, talk, like, a, west, Texan, I, should, write, something, like, this?
And what if I talk like a New York Jew should I just omit the punctuation altogether since it all gets swallowed up anyway as I cram in all the words I can possibly speak?
BetteryetshouldIomitspacestoshowthatI'mtalkingsoquickly?
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I'm in comma purgatory. Been accused by readers of having too many freaking commas. I try to put them in where they should be in speech, but it ends up being too much. Editor agrees with readers. So I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm trying to be more picky about commas.
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I get accused of putting too many in, but where I put them, is exactly where if the sentence was spoken, the pauses would be. And that's how it should be.
So, in, other, words, if, I, talk, like, a, west, Texan, I, should, write, something, like, this?
And what if I talk like a New York Jew should I just omit the punctuation altogether since it all gets swallowed up anyway as I cram in all the words I can possibly speak?
BetteryetshouldIomitspacestoshowthatI'mtalkingsoquickly?
If the character talks that way, then yes. Be true to your character. Or better yet, don't have a character talk that way. grint
I'm in comma purgatory. Been accused by readers of having too many freaking commas. I try to put them in where they should be in speech, but it ends up being too much. Editor agrees with readers. So I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm trying to be more picky about commas.
I've been accused of having too many commas, not enough commas, and commas in the wrong place, all for the same book.
As I say in my author notes, I comma as I read aloud. If I pause while reading, it gets a comma. And how I read it, is how I expect it to be read.
Texans may have an issue with not enough. Noted. NYJ's may have an issue with too many. Noted.
But my characters are mainly Australian, so that's how they're written. And yes, I do talk this way, for real.
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BetteryetshouldIomitspacestoshowthatI'mtalkingsoquickly?
That's gonna play hell with your word count, though. grint
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I'm in comma purgatory. Been accused by readers of having too many freaking commas. I try to put them in where they should be in speech, but it ends up being too much. Editor agrees with readers. So I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm trying to be more picky about commas.
My editor goes through a couple of red pens every time she looks at one of my books. I'd say she crosses out at least a third of the commas I put in.
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There are grammatical rules for comma usage, which are well documented and not too difficult to learn. Then there's dialect, in which all the rules for spelling, grammar, and punctuation are thrown out in favor of mimicking human speech.
Except in very rare cases, I hate reading dialect and avoid writing it.
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There are grammatical rules for comma usage, which are well documented and not too difficult to learn. Then there's dialect, in which all the rules for spelling, grammar, and punctuation are thrown out in favor of mimicking human speech.
Except in very rare cases, I hate reading dialect and avoid writing it.
Me too on both. I have noticed in the last years, though, that traditional books have fewer and fewer commas in places where following usage rules would require them. It's as if they're going out of style - along with irregular past tenses and some other things.
The sun shined so brightly here yesterday, I leaped off a cliff. I'm sure Jesus weeped.
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The sun shined so brightly here yesterday, I leaped off a cliff. I'm sure Jesus weeped.
Dear God. Save me.
:D
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Avoid long sentences. No commas required.
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Avoid long sentences. No commas required.
Ernest Hemingway and Calvin Coolidge approve of this post. :icon_mrgreen:
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To be honest, sentences with too many commas bother me more than sentences with too few. I notice the former, not so much the latter.
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To be honest, sentences with too many commas bother me more than sentences with too few. I notice the former, not so much the latter.
To be honest, sentences with too many commas, bother me, more than sentences, with too few. I notice the former, not so much, the latter.
May the bothering begin. :icon_rofl: :hehe
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Avoid long sentences. No commas required.
When I started I definitely had a lot of run on sentences. I have tightened that up, which has helped.
I don't write dialect, but sometimes pauses are important for emphasis in dialogue. And I like my commas where I was taught they belong. But when people tell me they are distracting and taking them out of the story, I feel like I should listen.
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The whole point of the comma is to indicate to the reader there is a pause in the speech there.
Not the whole point, no.
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Oopsie, seems this thread has gone off the rails; so let's decelerate by adding a period over the comma and get it back on the track with another period. :icon_rofl:
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I'm in comma purgatory. Been accused by readers of having too many freaking commas. I try to put them in where they should be in speech, but it ends up being too much. Editor agrees with readers. So I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm trying to be more picky about commas.
For what it's worth I think part of the problem is that even though dialogue represents speech it doesn't ever quite work if it actually duplicates speech. It's as if it has to reflect what the reader thinks speech should look like, not what it is.