Writer Sanctum
Corporate Sector => What are Amazon doing now? [Public] => Topic started by: notthatamanda on March 24, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
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I haven't kept good track of it with all the goings on, but Amazon had reduced the price on my psych thriller. I figured they were price matching but I was too frazzled to worry about it. They reduced the price again and I had author central call me to tell me who they were price matching to, so I could straighten it out. They said it's not a price match, it's an internal amazon promotion and they are still paying me the full royalty. I'll need to wait for the monthly reports to verify that.
This is a new one, I guess I could have missed an email if they sent it out to a lot of people and it ended up in my spam folder.
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Seems like a win-win.
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Seems like a win-win.
This. I should be so lucky.
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I'm not complaining, I just wanted to make people aware it was happening and see if they ever had it happen before.
I've sold six copies of the book this month. Frankly if I had to guess I would figure they are just trying to finish out the case of paperbacks and Large Print that they bought. Those have been reduced for a while.
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I've heard of it happening before. I'm not in the habit of checking my prices on a regular basis, so if it's ever happened to me, I'm unaware of it.
Interesting that they're discounting both the ebook and the print versions, assuming I'm reading your comments correctly. Sounds like they really want to move copies of your book for whatever reason.
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They want the print copies gone, they bought a case. I think they are just discounting the ebook to bring whatever attention they could to it. It is a good thing, it is my psych thriller and I put the preview for my psych thriller coming in April in it. But I don't expect to move a lot of copies given the state of the world right now.
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I haven't kept good track of it with all the goings on, but Amazon had reduced the price on my psych thriller. I figured they were price matching but I was too frazzled to worry about it. They reduced the price again and I had author central call me to tell me who they were price matching to, so I could straighten it out. They said it's not a price match, it's an internal amazon promotion and they are still paying me the full royalty. I'll need to wait for the monthly reports to verify that.
This is a new one, I guess I could have missed an email if they sent it out to a lot of people and it ended up in my spam folder.
They've been doing that for as long as I can remember and everyone freaks out when it happens to them. Yes, they do indeed pay you the full 70%,
On my new ebook (McShane's Bride - the Dotsero Train Wreck) is a pop offering a $10.00 discount on mine or any other ebook. Wow, hope readers choose mine. First time I've seen that and I bet I'll still get paid my cut.
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They are now discounting it below what they are supposed to be paying me. Very strange.
What could possibly be the motivation for that? Or is it just a glitchy algo?
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They are now discounting it below what they are supposed to be paying me. Very strange.
What could possibly be the motivation for that? Or is it just a glitchy algo?
Maybe they're feeling the pinch that movie streaming is causing for us all. You should be able to run a report to see what they are paying you. Amazon can certainly afford to take a loss.
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Yes I will check the monthly report when it comes out. I'm not worried about that, it's just weird to me. They order my paper books by the case and I can see them discounting those to a loss to get rid of physical inventory. But what is it about my book that makes them pick and ebook to sell at a loss. Again, not complaining, just curious about the reasoning behind it.
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Yes I will check the monthly report when it comes out. I'm not worried about that, it's just weird to me. They order my paper books by the case and I can see them discounting those to a loss to get rid of physical inventory. But what is it about my book that makes them pick and ebook to sell at a loss. Again, not complaining, just curious about the reasoning behind it.
I have no idea how they choose. I just checked a few or mine and none are discounted. However, some of my cover arts are blank. It's probably a bandwidth problem. My sales are practically nonexistent including my KU reads. No reviews on my new book so I moved it into KU this morning hoping to at least get a few reviews.
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Under the price of my books it says:
Kindle
$0.00
Claim your $10 Kindle credit
Read with Kindle Unlimited to also enjoy access to over 1 million more titles
$4.99 to buy
That's new.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084H4Z23C/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p6_i5
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Oh sorry, I wasn't asking you specifically, just wondering. Trying to think about something different for a change.
Now I already own that particular book of mine, so I went to a random book I don't own and I don't get a $10 kindle credit offer.
So I guess you merit that. ;)
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Oh sorry, I wasn't asking you specifically, just wondering. Trying to think about something different for a change.
Now I already own that particular book of mine, so I went to a random book I don't own and I don't get a $10 kindle credit offer.
So I guess you merit that. ;)
I feel so special, lol. I didn't think you were asking me specifically. I just added that as a point of interest.
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Well I just looked at my royalty report for March and Amazon did not pay me 70% royalties on the full price of the book, like they said they would. They sold my book at 10 different prices during March (just looking at the US) and paid me 70% on what they decided the price should be. It was not price matching. Here are the prices they offered the book at.
7.19
5.39
6.85
9.99
7.20
9.60
6.02
5.43
3.99
4.99
They never responded to me in writing, when I requested they confirm that they were lowering the price as part of a special and I would be compensated for 70% of the full price. So I guess I will compose a message via KDP help and sit around to wait for them to tell me "Sucks to be you, doesn't it."
Edited to add: I am really p*ssed off about this. They can do whatever they f they want with our pricing whenever the f they want and pay us whatever the f they want?
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Good grief. I've never heard of that before. Kind of feels like someone's got a finger in the pot. I've wondered about that for years. Like when all the books sell in a 10 book series except book 3, which is always behind in sales. Apparently, readers skip from 2 to 4. I believe that - not.
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I got confirmation in writing. Now they have to fix what they paid me: (Bold mine)
Hello Amanda,
This is Brendon from the KDP support team.
Per our Terms and Conditions, we retain discretion to set the retail customer price for the books we sell. Our decision to discount products is based on a number of considerations, which vary over time.
However, the discount does not affect the royalties earned while the book is discounted. Royalties will continue to be calculated from the list price you provided on your KDP account which is 70%. This can be confirmed by downloading the available reports by clicking on "Generate Reports" when viewing your reports.
Kindly confirm if you have any additional concerns.
Thank you for your continued support.
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I had a snafu once like this after I had my book on a big promotion. When I called, the rep said that it was part of a promotion now and they were paying me the higher royalty. Thing is, it wasn't. It was a glitch that got cleared after talking to another rep by phone.
Amazon's just like any other company. Sometimes it just matters the rep you speak to and sometimes you have to talk to more than one.
I'm so sorry to hear about all this, nottahtamanda. Hopefully the error leads to some increase sales. If it keeps up, I'd call them again by phone (if you live in US, I hear you can't call in some countries).
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Thank you very much. I don't have much faith it was an honest error, but I will keep following up until they pay me with phone calls if necessary. For the record the last promotion I did on this book was in October.
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Oh no, now it was price matching:
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 12:46:04 PM EDT, Amazon.com <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Amanda,
I’m sorry for the misunderstanding happened in this regards.
I understand you are concerned about the discrepancy in the royalty you received for your eBook "Mistakes: A Novel".
Please note, Royalties paid under 70 percent royalty option is calculated based on the list price you set for your book, unless your book is discounted or price matched with the other platform.
During the period of March, your book has been price matched with other websites.
This the reason for the decrease in the royalties for the month of March. Your sales report will show the weighted average of the price at which we sold your book, so that you are able to determine the royalties due. Our reporting does not specify what other sales channels price matches occur with, or the individual sales prices of each unit sold.
Please visit the link below for more details on the 70 percent royalty option: https://kdp.amazon.com/help/topic/G200634500
Thanks for your patience and understanding in this issue.
My response:
What websites? I specifically called when I noticed the price changing repeatedly and asked if it was being price matched and what the websites were. I was told it was NOT price matching it was an Amazon promotion and I would be compensated for the full 70% on the list price.
I would appreciate some clarification on this issue and also an explanation as to why I wasn't told it was price matching the first time I called when I specifically asked that.
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Oh no, now it was price matching:
On Monday, May 4, 2020, 12:46:04 PM EDT, Amazon.com <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Amanda,
I’m sorry for the misunderstanding happened in this regards.
I understand you are concerned about the discrepancy in the royalty you received for your eBook "Mistakes: A Novel".
Please note, Royalties paid under 70 percent royalty option is calculated based on the list price you set for your book, unless your book is discounted or price matched with the other platform.
During the period of March, your book has been price matched with other websites.
This the reason for the decrease in the royalties for the month of March. Your sales report will show the weighted average of the price at which we sold your book, so that you are able to determine the royalties due. Our reporting does not specify what other sales channels price matches occur with, or the individual sales prices of each unit sold.
Please visit the link below for more details on the 70 percent royalty option: https://kdp.amazon.com/help/topic/G200634500
Thanks for your patience and understanding in this issue.
My response:
What websites? I specifically called when I noticed the price changing repeatedly and asked if it was being price matched and what the websites were. I was told it was NOT price matching it was an Amazon promotion and I would be compensated for the full 70% on the list price.
I would appreciate some clarification on this issue and also an explanation as to why I wasn't told it was price matching the first time I called when I specifically asked that.
I've only won a case against Amazon once in 10 years. I complained, a man actually called, said I was right and that he was correcting the problem, which he did. When it happened again, I emailed him and he no longer worked there.
Curious, isn't it?
Is it company policy not to correct author payment problems? I think the turnover is so great they don't really get in-depth training. They probably owe me over 1k in errors I can prove over ten years starting with $200.00 my first year. But, they're still the best game in town so in the end, there isn't a lot you can do about it. Figure out how much they owe you and then drop the price to $.99 so they can't continue to get your money. Oh dear, don't listen to me. I get a little hot and vindictive over this kind of thing.
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Thank you Marti. I will call after the next response. It isn't a huge amount of money but the principle bugs the heck out of me. It's nice to have someone who understands, really understands to talk to about it. Thanks.
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So sorry to hear about it, Amanda. It's really concerning that Amazon is dropping our price, and our royalties, outside of our control. This was reported by another writer on Kboards a couple months ago too. I hope you can fix this mess soon.
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This is one of the most bizarre price change stories I've ever heard of.
Even if some other website had your book for a lower price, that doesn't account for the number of different prices they charged during the course of the month. I don't see how that could be price-matching.
What we need is a wealthy philanthropist willing to pay our arbitration costs. If Amazon had to deal with an arbitration every time it screwed up this badly, it might end up being cheaper to make more of an effort to do things right in the first place.
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This is one of the most bizarre price change stories I've ever heard of.
Even if some other website had your book for a lower price, that doesn't account for the number of different prices they charged during the course of the month. I don't see how that could be price-matching.
What we need is a wealthy philanthropist willing to pay our arbitration costs. If Amazon had to deal with an arbitration every time it screwed up this badly, it might end up being cheaper to make more of an effort to do things right in the first place.
I did check Google Play, B&N, Apple and Kobo before contacting them the first time. There are too many distributors through D2D to check, which is why I asked. A different time, not this case, I had the Amazon rep tell me it was matching to B&N but I looked it up when I was on the phone with them and did the "It looks okay to me, I must be too dumb to understand" and they checked it live, agreed, and overrode the price matching. What gets me is the changing their mind mid dealing with it to the advantage of not giving me the money they owe me. <stamping feet emoji>
It's not a lot of money to me, but how many people are they doing this to?
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This is one of the most bizarre price change stories I've ever heard of.
Even if some other website had your book for a lower price, that doesn't account for the number of different prices they charged during the course of the month. I don't see how that could be price-matching.
What we need is a wealthy philanthropist willing to pay our arbitration costs. If Amazon had to deal with an arbitration every time it screwed up this badly, it might end up being cheaper to make more of an effort to do things right in the first place.
I did check Google Play, B&N, Apple and Kobo before contacting them the first time. There are too many distributors through D2D to check, which is why I asked. A different time, not this case, I had the Amazon rep tell me it was matching to B&N but I looked it up when I was on the phone with them and did the "It looks okay to me, I must be too dumb to understand" and they checked it live, agreed, and overrode the price matching. What gets me is the changing their mind mid dealing with it to the advantage of not giving me the money they owe me. <stamping feet emoji>
It's not a lot of money to me, but how many people are they doing this to?
I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
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This is one of the most bizarre price change stories I've ever heard of.
Even if some other website had your book for a lower price, that doesn't account for the number of different prices they charged during the course of the month. I don't see how that could be price-matching.
What we need is a wealthy philanthropist willing to pay our arbitration costs. If Amazon had to deal with an arbitration every time it screwed up this badly, it might end up being cheaper to make more of an effort to do things right in the first place.
I did check Google Play, B&N, Apple and Kobo before contacting them the first time. There are too many distributors through D2D to check, which is why I asked. A different time, not this case, I had the Amazon rep tell me it was matching to B&N but I looked it up when I was on the phone with them and did the "It looks okay to me, I must be too dumb to understand" and they checked it live, agreed, and overrode the price matching. What gets me is the changing their mind mid dealing with it to the advantage of not giving me the money they owe me. <stamping feet emoji>
It's not a lot of money to me, but how many people are they doing this to?
I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
The one thing that's easy to check is in the monthly report every different price within the same country will show up as a different line. It would be after the fact, but you would know. I think I found it because Amazon had bought cases of the paperback and large print for that book and I was nosy and seeing how many of them had sold by checking the book page.
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I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
+ international markets :icon_eek: The incident reported by another writer was in an international country, UK. Who knows, could be happening more often.
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I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
+ international markets :icon_eek: The incident reported by another writer was in an international country, UK. Who knows, could be happening more often.
Yep they screwed me in the UK, Canada and Australia, as well, if I remember correctly. Too lazy to go look at the binder in the basement.
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I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
+ international markets :icon_eek: The incident reported by another writer was in an international country, UK. Who knows, could be happening more often.
Yep they screwed me in the UK, Canada and Australia, as well, if I remember correctly. Too lazy to go look at the binder in the basement.
You'd think they'd have to audit accounts. Maybe they do, but only the top sellers? I bet they don't do that to the traditional publishers. Course, we'd have to sue to get an audit. I've thought of that, but it sounds like a lot of work and money.
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I don't check all 50+ of my books, so they could do it again to me and I'd never know. Maybe I should go look now. Might as well, I can't seem to concentrate on writing today.
+ international markets :icon_eek: The incident reported by another writer was in an international country, UK. Who knows, could be happening more often.
Yep they screwed me in the UK, Canada and Australia, as well, if I remember correctly. Too lazy to go look at the binder in the basement.
You'd think they'd have to audit accounts. Maybe they do, but only the top sellers? I bet they don't do that to the traditional publishers. Course, we'd have to sue to get an audit. I've thought of that, but it sounds like a lot of work and money.
The way it looks in the report, there is nothing wrong with it. They list the price it was sold for and I got 70% of that. Now it's my word against theirs that they told me it was a promotion and they didn't have any problem with contradicting themselves in the same email thread. I don't know why it would be corrected in an audit, but I'm not an accountant.
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Just for funsies D2D shorted me on an Apple sale yesterday. It really does feel like the universe is f*cking with me personally. Can it at least leave my pathetic excuse for a writing career alone? Sorry, not a good day here.
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Just for funsies D2D shorted me on an Apple sale yesterday. It really does feel like the universe is f*cking with me personally. Can it at least leave my pathetic excuse for a writing career alone? Sorry, not a good day here.
Wow, that's another thing I've never checked. Could it be that D2D is just listing what Apple paid? Or did they take a bigger bite of the "apple?"
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Just for funsies D2D shorted me on an Apple sale yesterday. It really does feel like the universe is f*cking with me personally. Can it at least leave my pathetic excuse for a writing career alone? Sorry, not a good day here.
Wow, that's another thing I've never checked. Could it be that D2D is just listing what Apple paid? Or did they take a bigger bite of the "apple?"
No idea, one book, royalty should have been a buck higher. I checked it like seven times. I guess I should be happy I sold something.
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Just for funsies D2D shorted me on an Apple sale yesterday. It really does feel like the universe is f*cking with me personally. Can it at least leave my pathetic excuse for a writing career alone? Sorry, not a good day here.
Wow, that's another thing I've never checked. Could it be that D2D is just listing what Apple paid? Or did they take a bigger bite of the "apple?"
No idea, one book, royalty should have been a buck higher. I checked it like seven times. I guess I should be happy I sold something.
Maybe they'll spot their typo and make up for it today. Apple usually doesn't report until later in the morning. At least B&N paid.
Is this the same book you're having trouble with at Amazon? I wonder if Apple shows you a different price it shows me. If you PM me a link, I'll check that for you.
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Just for funsies D2D shorted me on an Apple sale yesterday. It really does feel like the universe is f*cking with me personally. Can it at least leave my pathetic excuse for a writing career alone? Sorry, not a good day here.
Wow, that's another thing I've never checked. Could it be that D2D is just listing what Apple paid? Or did they take a bigger bite of the "apple?"
No idea, one book, royalty should have been a buck higher. I checked it like seven times. I guess I should be happy I sold something.
Maybe they'll spot their typo and make up for it today. Apple usually doesn't report until later in the morning. At least B&N paid.
Is this the same book you're having trouble with at Amazon? I wonder if Apple shows you a different price it shows me. If you PM me a link, I'll check that for you.
No, it's not, different book. I'll PM you the link just to see.
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The latest reason:
Hello Amanda,
I'm following on the issue with regards to the discounted price of the eBook on the month of March, 2020.
Our Website team has looked into the issue and confirmed that the eBook was price matched with the Amazon price of the physical edition of your book.
Please note, if the digital list price is not at least 20% below the list price of the corresponding physical edition we may lower the sale price of your Kindle book. This is as per design. Since the paperback was not published with us, we do not have any control over the pricing.
Also, when your book is price matched, your royalty will be based on our selling price for the book, minus delivery costs and taxes. This is the reason why you have received royalty based on the discounted price.
I understand this might not be the answer you were expecting but, this is how we operate at this moment. However, I will forward your feedback to your business team for consideration as we plan future improvements.
I'm unable to promise a time frame at this time, however, we are still evolving and feedback like yours motivate us to dive deep and unearth ways and means which helps us in making publishing on Amazon KDP a happy experience.
The 70% royalty option only applies to books sold to customers in the 70% territories listed on our Help page:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A30F3VI2TH1FR8#70.
Please see our pricing page for more details:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B
Thank for your patience and understanding in this issue.
My response:
Incorrect again. There was not and has never been a price reduction on the paperback of the book which is published through Ingram Spark. Amazon bought a case of them, maybe two, I don't remember and Amazon decided to lower the price on the paperback.
Amazon had full control over the price of the paperback that was in their stock. Amazon chose to lower the price. I don't care what they sell the paperback for, once it is in Amazon's possession. Using that to lower the price of the ebook is acting in bad faith as far as I'm concerned.
Can't say I'm looking forward to what the next excuse will be. Sorry, but I am out of patience.
I've been told the wrong thing several times and each time when Amazon told me that they were wrong with what they told me before, it's to their advantage. I want to be paid the 70% on the list price for all my sales in March, period.
I plan on trying to call them Friday, maybe, if I have the energy for it.
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The latest reason:
Hello Amanda,
I'm following on the issue with regards to the discounted price of the eBook on the month of March, 2020.
Our Website team has looked into the issue and confirmed that the eBook was price matched with the Amazon price of the physical edition of your book.
Please note, if the digital list price is not at least 20% below the list price of the corresponding physical edition we may lower the sale price of your Kindle book. This is as per design. Since the paperback was not published with us, we do not have any control over the pricing.
Also, when your book is price matched, your royalty will be based on our selling price for the book, minus delivery costs and taxes. This is the reason why you have received royalty based on the discounted price.
I understand this might not be the answer you were expecting but, this is how we operate at this moment. However, I will forward your feedback to your business team for consideration as we plan future improvements.
I'm unable to promise a time frame at this time, however, we are still evolving and feedback like yours motivate us to dive deep and unearth ways and means which helps us in making publishing on Amazon KDP a happy experience.
The 70% royalty option only applies to books sold to customers in the 70% territories listed on our Help page:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A30F3VI2TH1FR8#70.
Please see our pricing page for more details:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B
Thank for your patience and understanding in this issue.
My response:
Incorrect again. There was not and has never been a price reduction on the paperback of the book which is published through Ingram Spark. Amazon bought a case of them, maybe two, I don't remember and Amazon decided to lower the price on the paperback.
Amazon had full control over the price of the paperback that was in their stock. Amazon chose to lower the price. I don't care what they sell the paperback for, once it is in Amazon's possession. Using that to lower the price of the ebook is acting in bad faith as far as I'm concerned.
Can't say I'm looking forward to what the next excuse will be. Sorry, but I am out of patience.
I've been told the wrong thing several times and each time when Amazon told me that they were wrong with what they told me before, it's to their advantage. I want to be paid the 70% on the list price for all my sales in March, period.
I plan on trying to call them Friday, maybe, if I have the energy for it.
They price matched an ebook to a paperback sold by someone else? And then charged YOU the taxes. Wrong, I mean way, way wrong! I went to battle with Washington State over taxes and I can assure you, Amazon charges the customer, not the supplier. I got a huge chunk of money back from the state after I proved that exact fact all the way back to the beginning of four years ago. It wasn't up to me to collect or report any taxes collect on my books - ebooks and paperbacks.
Delivery costs? Is that what shipping would cost if your ebook was a paperback?
Unless I'm not understanding, I've never heard of anything so screwed up.
I think you should email Jeff. His office will answer and they are very nice about it. In turn, they'll go to the head of the appropriate department. Send a short email with just the basics of what you've been told so far. I would especially mention you're being charged taxes. That should raise a few eyebrows.
I sure hope they're not collecting taxes from us and from the customers. Wow, that would blow the lid off the whole company.
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Wow that's good to know. Thank you Marti. I didn't even think about the taxes, I was too distracted by everything else. They told me the first time I called about the lower price on the ebook that it was an Amazon promotion. I don't think anyone over there knows what they are doing.
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Wow that's good to know. Thank you Marti. I didn't even think about the taxes, I was too distracted by everything else. They told me the first time I called about the lower price on the ebook that it was an Amazon promotion. I don't think anyone over there knows what they are doing.
Good luck. I don't have what it takes to argue with them. I'd say, don't give up, but I always do.
However, I recommend you always talk to them via email so you have a written record of what they say. They record the calls, but you have no idea what searching phone recordings (maybe you do) is truly like. When I worked for a bank, I spent hours just listening and trying to find a phone call. They probably can't do that now that most of them work from home.
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Holy cow Amazon called me. Someone from Seattle. They are only allowed to give their first name and initial. Anyway, we went through the report together, first she said it was price matching, but it wasn't, then she said it was the exchange, I said I'm only looking at dot.com. Anyway, we finally got on the right page and she's going to get her supervisor involved because it was a promotion and I should have been paid on the full list price and the paperback had nothing to do with it.
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Holy cow Amazon called me. Someone from Seattle. They are only allowed to give their first name and initial. Anyway, we went through the report together, first she said it was price matching, but it wasn't, then she said it was the exchange, I said I'm only looking at dot.com. Anyway, we finally got on the right page and she's going to get her supervisor involved because it was a promotion and I should have been paid on the full list price and the paperback had nothing to do with it.
Bravo! And it only took two years and three gray hairs!
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Two weeks and a lot more gray hair ;)
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Congrats on clearing this up!
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I had an email from Amazon today saying the 6 free downloads that happened had been an error, and they were paying me the full royalty in my July payment.
Wonders will never cease.
Grin
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Good for those particular Amazon employees for making it right.
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Thank you guys. Something is not working right when they run an Amazon promotion. For everybody's future use - check your monthly reports carefully, maybe divide the royalty column by the number of books so see how much you were paid for each book. If it is off they can go back and look and see if it was price matching or not. I'm probably going to add the step of dividing royalty/net number of books into another column to my monthly review.
I still don't know why they put me in the Amazon promotion and they never told me so it was just luck I noticed it at all.
Glad you got your money too Timothy.
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Take 57:
Hello Amanda,
I hope you are well.
My name is Jenni and I'm a member of the Leadership Team.
I truly apologize for the amount of time it has taken to get back to you about your concern regarding your title.
We have reached out to the Technical Team regarding your royalty amount for your ebook and they have confirmed the price we are showing is correct per our discretion and the royalty you are receiving is accurate based on this price.
I checked and can see that your Kindle book is listed at a price of $9.99 this is because if the digital list price is not at least 20% below the list price of the corresponding physical edition we may lower the sale price, which this happen to be the case.
Please be aware that we retain discretion over our retail prices and the chosen royalty option will be applied on the list price for which the customer has purchased the book.
Please see our pricing page for more details:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B
I understand this is not the response you were hoping for however I hope this clarifies your concern.
Thank you for your understanding.
We'd appreciate your feedback. Please use the buttons below to vote about your experience today.
Best regards,
Jenni G
Amazon.com
My response:
I don't understand. When Valerie called me last week she said it was an Amazon promotional price and had nothing to do with the paper back price. So I will explain it AGAIN, Amazon bought a case of the paperback books from Ingram Spark and decided to discount them. There was no special price elsewhere on these books. I am really getting fed up with this. How can Amazon decide to discount the paper books it decided to purchase and then punish me by reducing the price on the ebook? And how many times are you guys going to flip and say it was a promotional price, no it was because of the paper book, no it had nothing to do with the paper book, it was a promotion, no it was because of the paper book.... ?
From the VERY FIRST time I contacted Amazon, I was told that this was a promotional price and I would be paid for the full royalty on the list price of $9.99. Does anyone over there have any idea how this works?
Please explain to me why I should list my paper books on Amazon if Amazon will reduce the paper book price whenever they want and subsequently reduce the ebook price using that as an excuse.
No, it is not the response I was hoping for and I am really disappointed in getting the runaround from Amazon on this for going on two months now.
Amanda
I'm getting really fed up. I don't sell enough of the paper books for this aggravation. Thinking I might be done with paper after this.
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Take 57:
Hello Amanda,
I hope you are well.
My name is Jenni and I'm a member of the Leadership Team.
I truly apologize for the amount of time it has taken to get back to you about your concern regarding your title.
We have reached out to the Technical Team regarding your royalty amount for your ebook and they have confirmed the price we are showing is correct per our discretion and the royalty you are receiving is accurate based on this price.
I checked and can see that your Kindle book is listed at a price of $9.99 this is because if the digital list price is not at least 20% below the list price of the corresponding physical edition we may lower the sale price, which this happen to be the case.
Please be aware that we retain discretion over our retail prices and the chosen royalty option will be applied on the list price for which the customer has purchased the book.
Please see our pricing page for more details:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B
I understand this is not the response you were hoping for however I hope this clarifies your concern.
Thank you for your understanding.
We'd appreciate your feedback. Please use the buttons below to vote about your experience today.
Best regards,
Jenni G
Amazon.com
My response:
I don't understand. When Valerie called me last week she said it was an Amazon promotional price and had nothing to do with the paper back price. So I will explain it AGAIN, Amazon bought a case of the paperback books from Ingram Spark and decided to discount them. There was no special price elsewhere on these books. I am really getting fed up with this. How can Amazon decide to discount the paper books it decided to purchase and then punish me by reducing the price on the ebook? And how many times are you guys going to flip and say it was a promotional price, no it was because of the paper book, no it had nothing to do with the paper book, it was a promotion, no it was because of the paper book.... ?
From the VERY FIRST time I contacted Amazon, I was told that this was a promotional price and I would be paid for the full royalty on the list price of $9.99. Does anyone over there have any idea how this works?
Please explain to me why I should list my paper books on Amazon if Amazon will reduce the paper book price whenever they want and subsequently reduce the ebook price using that as an excuse.
No, it is not the response I was hoping for and I am really disappointed in getting the runaround from Amazon on this for going on two months now.
Amanda
I'm getting really fed up. I don't sell enough of the paper books for this aggravation. Thinking I might be done with paper after this.
Just raise the paperback price and be done with it, I guess.
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Amazon is the one reducing the price, because they bought it by the case and want to get rid of the inventory, I guess. The paper book prices are more than 20% above the ebook price and I give them a 35% discount from Ingram. :HB
Edit - thank you for trying to help Marti. I'm just so fed up, I had a great day writing and now I want to quit entirely, again. Time to go to bed. 10:30 here.
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Amazon is the one reducing the price, because they bought it by the case and want to get rid of the inventory, I guess. The paper book prices are more than 20% above the ebook price and I give them a 35% discount from Ingram. :HB
Edit - thank you for trying to help Marti. I'm just so fed up, I had a great day writing and now I want to quit entirely, again. Time to go to bed. 10:30 here.
Good night!
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This is depressing!
While it is true that Amazon requires the ebook price to be 20% lower than the paperback price, that policy shouldn't apply on paperbacks Amazon discounted itself, only to the list prices, just as you argued.
The level of incompetence involved here is scary. (I'm assuming it's not deliberate cheating on Amazon's part, but that doesn't absolve them from paying people correctly.)
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It could be a function of Amazon employing more people to cope with supporting a huge increase in orders unexpectedly, and the ones now handling book issues haven't been trained properly.
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It could be a function of Amazon employing more people to cope with supporting a huge increase in orders unexpectedly, and the ones now handling book issues haven't been trained properly.
Has there been a huge increase in orders? If so, that might explain a little of this, but wouldn't that be more an issue with low-level responders. Notthatamanda seems to be dealing with people at a higher pay grade and still getting grief from them.
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Yes I was called by someone in Seattle, and she understood it and agreed with me. Now to be fair, I have no idea where Jenni is and if the "Leadership Team" she is part of, is where Valerie was taking it to, she told me she was going to take it up to her supervisor.
I don't know. Just annoying and depressing. They could do this to the other book of mine that they bought cases of. Of course, I'm selling so little these days it hardly matters anyway.
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Hello Amanda,
I can understand you being upset. I am sorry. I checked all previous correspondence and I see that the response that has been sent on May 1 was misunderstood from our end and I do apologize for all the miscommunication.
I completely understand that you never reduced the price of the paperback from your end but Amazon reduced it for the customers but the eBook price has been reduced based on the paperback.
However, as explained due to the reduction in the price of a paperback book price(which was Amazon promotion), the eBook list price was reduced automatically(since the digital price should be at least 20% lesser than the paperback price) and since you have chosen 70% royalty for your eBook we would pay you the royalties based on the list price.
Thanks for your kind understanding.
So basically to summarize - if you have paperbacks on Amazon, they can reduce the price to whatever they want and thereby reduce your ebooks as well. I wonder if they would have the balls to do this to the trades, but they probably have different agreements than us lowly indies do.
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Hello Amanda,
I can understand you being upset. I am sorry. I checked all previous correspondence and I see that the response that has been sent on May 1 was misunderstood from our end and I do apologize for all the miscommunication.
I completely understand that you never reduced the price of the paperback from your end but Amazon reduced it for the customers but the eBook price has been reduced based on the paperback.
However, as explained due to the reduction in the price of a paperback book price(which was Amazon promotion), the eBook list price was reduced automatically(since the digital price should be at least 20% lesser than the paperback price) and since you have chosen 70% royalty for your eBook we would pay you the royalties based on the list price.
Thanks for your kind understanding.
So basically to summarize - if you have paperbacks on Amazon, they can reduce the price to whatever they want and thereby reduce your ebooks as well. I wonder if they would have the balls to do this to the trades, but they probably have different agreements than us lowly indies do.
It might be worth reviewing all of Amazon's (purposely vague) documents to see if they ever actually say they can do something like this.
The two pieces are both accurate individually. Amazon can elect to discount a paperback if it chooses to do so. And it can require that ebooks be at least 20% lower than the paperbacks. However, I think the 20% language is predicated on the notion that the author is the one setting the price. If Amazon chooses to lower the paperback price, it should absolutely not be able to lower the ebook based on the 20% language. That should only apply to paperback pricing decisions made by you.
(And no, they don't treat trads that way. I've seen plenty of examples where the ebook is priced higher than the paperback.
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Thanks Bill. I will look into this when my emotional reserves restock a bit.
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I checked for you. The two relevant URLS are https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200634500 (https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200634500) and https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834330 (https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834330)
I'm reproducing the relevant sections in case anyone has a bright idea. The issue is actually addressed. I've bolded the relevant part.
The price at which we sell your Digital Book may not be the same as your List Price. For instance, we might sell your Digital Book at a lower price to match a third party's price for a Digital or Physical edition of the book. Or, we might match Amazon's price for a Physical edition of the book.
4. Setting Your List Price
If you choose the 70% Royalty Option, you must set and adjust your List Price so that it is at least 20% below the list price on Amazon for any physical edition of the Digital Book.
A customer might buy your book at a discounted price that's lower than your list price due to promotions, but it won't affect your royalties.
At first, I thought I couldn't see any immediately obvious way to argue the point, but there is one. According to the second quote, the ebook list price must be at least 20% below the print list price. Here and elsewhere, list price is whatever you've set your book price to (as in the second quote). And the language in the third quote makes clear that discounted price and list price are not the same. In other words, the language only entitles Amazon to drop the ebook price if your list price on the paperback (the one you set) is not at least 20% higher than the ebook list price. Amazon is welcome to go ahead and discount the paperback as much as it wants, but it can only reduce the ebook price based on your paperback list price, not the discounted price.
At least, all of that would be true if Amazon was following its own rules. Maybe the person you're dealing with is rational enough to listen to this argument and realized that someone made a mistake.
A lesser argument, but maybe still worth throwing in, is that the spirit of the rules (as reflected by the third quote) is that Amazon can't penalize author royalties based on discount prices that Amazon imposes. True, the language refers to paperback discounts and royalties, but one could certainly argue that the same spirit should apply in this case (or that Amazon shouldn't discount a price to make it violate Amazon's own rules). Nowhere does Amazon suggest it can discount your paperback and reduce your ebook price as a result.
IANAL--but I sometimes wonder if I was one in a previous life.
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They are doing it again. Marked down the hardcover and then marked down the ebook. There is only one hardcover left in stock. If they order a case when that is gone I'm going to lose it big time. I should have done what Bill said and dug into the fine print of the agreement. I guess now I really should. Can't seem to sum up the energy for it though.
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Is it possible to unpublish just the print version without unpublishing the ebook? If it is, I'd be tempted to do that.
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I publish through Ingram. I don't think I *can tell them not to sell Amazon any more. And the book that they are trying to get rid of is still sitting in their stock anyway. Thanks for trying to help.
*Edit - missed a word
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Yeah, I don't know much about the print side. It never seemed worth the hassle to me.
I hope you get it sorted out. Again. :confused:
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Yeah, I don't know much about the print side. It never seemed worth the hassle to me.
The more I hear of things like this happening, the more convinced I am not to do print.
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I probably would have been better off putting my time in learning how to do a mailing list and then, um, doing a mailing list.
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They are doing it again. Now trying to get rid of the two Large Print copies they have in stock so they deeply discounted them and discounted the ebook. It's so freaking annoying. No one made them buy a case of the darn things.
At the other place someone is reporting that their ebook is discounted just because. Their paperback is not. That's what made me look at mine again. That is actually a whole lot scarier. Note to that author - I was told they would pay me the royalty for the full price and they changed their mind. Try to get it in writing and check your sales report carefully, not that it really matters. They'll just say, "no we were wrong, we aren't paying you the full royalty."
Modify - I finally went through the terms and conditions. We have no hand.
5.3.4 Customer Prices. To the extent not prohibited by applicable laws, we have sole and complete discretion to set the retail customer price at which your Books are sold through the Program. We are solely responsible for processing payments, payment collection, requests for refunds and related customer service, and will have sole ownership and control of all data obtained from customers and prospective customers in connection with the Program.
https://kdp-eu.amazon.com/agreement?token=eyJjbGllbnRJZCI6ImtpbmRsZV9kaXJlY3RfcHVibGlzaGluZyIsImRvY3VtZW50SWQiOiJrZHAiLCJjYW5jZWxVcmwiOiJodHRwczovL2tkcC5hbWF6b24uY29tIiwiY2xpZW50TG9jYWxlIjoiTkEiLCJkaXNwbGF5UGFyYW1zIjpudWxsfQ%7CeyJtYXRlcmlhbFNlcmlhbCI6MSwiaG1hYyI6IjNVTU9oejdYTENWY1dsMUZEWWQwYnRZN3FNR1FxOEJxVHpyaWhYS2dGVWM9IiwianNvbkhtYWMiOnRydWUsInR5cGUiOiJSRUFEX09OTFkiLCJhY2NlcHQiOmZhbHNlfQ&language=en_US
Does EU mean European Union? I'm getting to this page from here:
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200627430
Anyway, I think they have us by the proverbial...legally. I can't see getting back into AMS when I could be budgeting based on one list price and the price could end up lower without my realizing it.
I just don't know why they are bothering to mess with prices if they aren't matching paper books that have been discounted.
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For Erika's children's book hardcover, they end up discounting it below my cost via Ingram, so I've been spreading the word, and I have a few author friends who buy them at the discount with their prime membership and list my address for delivery. (Since Amazon will only let you buy one when they're discounted.)
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I'm not understanding, or maybe I didn't explain it right. I didn't buy a case of my own books (not that there's anything wrong with that). Amazon bought my books by the case and is now discounting them to try to get them off the shelf, the literal, physical shelf in their warehouse.
It is a good idea if I ever need a bunch of my own books, though that doesn't seem likely. But I have friends with Prime who would help me out too. Thanks.
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I'm not understanding, or maybe I didn't explain it right. I didn't buy a case of my own books (not that there's anything wrong with that). Amazon bought my books by the case and is now discounting them to try to get them off the shelf, the literal, physical shelf in their warehouse.
It is a good idea if I ever need a bunch of my own books, though that doesn't seem likely. But I have friends with Prime who would help me out too. Thanks.
Yep, mine too. I think they want to get them out of the warehouse, and they discount it. Then with all my friends buying them, it seems to trigger them buying another case. Every 6-9 months this happens.
It's especially helpful since my per-unit cost from Ingram is ~$9, and Amazon will discount it down to ~$6. If I factor in Ingram's predatory shipping and handling costs, my per-unit pricing as almost $11, so paying my friends $6 and no shipping really fixes my profit margin.
Of course, I haven't done a single event in 2020 due to pretty much everyhing being cancelled.
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The price matching Amazon thing is super annoying. Good luck, Amanda, and I hope you get this straightened out.
Please allow me a slight tangent: On a separate price matching issue, I finally got one my book's price changed without price matching on Amazon after a promo; how did I do it? I changed the price on all wide books and waited 24hrs. Waiting a day seems to be the only way that Amazon won't keep the price at promo price. If I don't wait a day, Amazon will freeze the book at the promo price for upwards of 7-10 days.
Back to paperbacks: Has anybody out there ever published with Barnes and Noble paperback directly?? I only sell on B&N and Amazon anyway. With the headaches we're going through with Ingram, I'm wondering if this is an option. There still may be price matching, but it won't be with some small book retailer.
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For promos I always waited until the prices got back up elsewhere, and I could verify it, well as best as I could anyway, with the major platforms on D2D, before even changing the price on Amazon.
Unfortunately, there is nothing to straighten out. They have told me they will set the paper book price (It's actually hardcover, large print this time) to whatever they want and discount accordingly. Since it is large print I would buy the 2 available and donate to the senior center but they aren't open for their library or accepting donations right now. I will just take the time to glare angrily at it every day.
Mark - thanks for clarifying. I could order them just to get the free shipping if I need to but I am ordering everything from Walmart or Target or elsewhere whenever I can.
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So if you publish through Ingram Spark, Amazon can buy a bunch of physical copies, and then when they do a deep discount on the print version, they drop the price of the ebook as well? Seems like that's a reason to only do print through KDP Paperback, and to never give Amazon any exclusivity over your ebooks ever. Ever.
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What you say makes sense but I pay for formatting since I was never able to get over that hurdle and I'm not sure if what works for Ingram would work for KDP. This career is just death by a thousand paper cuts sometimes.
I don't think they are intentionally going after me. Somehow I triggered the algos to buy a case, if they hadn't bought a case when I released the paperback on Ingram this wouldn't have happened. And then they bought a case of the large print (large print was just a bad idea, so sad it didn't work out). The crazy thing about them buying the case of this book is it was initially published in 2014 and I didn't do the Ingram paperback until 2019. Why would they want a case of those?
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Bloody bleeping #)*($)(#. They're marking my ebook down again and the paper copies are still all at full price.