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Writer's Haven => Writer's Workshop [Public] => Topic started by: Becca Mills on November 14, 2018, 03:27:46 AM

Title: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Becca Mills on November 14, 2018, 03:27:46 AM
Why is it, or was it, backseat but not frontseat?

And why is it still backyard but not front yard? You have a backyard cookout in the back yard, not the backyard. Again, when spoken, it's different.

Maybe it's because "back" is already part of so many long-established words where there's no hyphen or space: background, backhoe, backdraft, backpedal, backfill, etc. Established patterns seem sort of magnetic, drawing other words to mimic them. An example is "all right" --> "alright," which mimics existing "al-" words like "already," "almost," etc. In contrast, I don't think "front" has that kind of pattern pressure happening.

As for why the dictionary changed, it's probably because a change in usage was noted. Dictionaries try to describe what they see happening with words, rather than prescribing what should happen, though there's a fine line there for sure.
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Post-Doctorate D on November 14, 2018, 03:54:43 AM
As for why the dictionary changed, it's probably because a change in usage was noted. Dictionaries try to describe what they see happening with words, rather than prescribing what should happen, though there's a fine line there for sure.

Well, they have to be careful else there could be a repeat of the violence that happened in 2013.

4 Copy Editors Killed In Ongoing AP Style, Chicago Manual Gang Violence (https://www.theonion.com/4-copy-editors-killed-in-ongoing-ap-style-chicago-manu-1819574341)
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Maggie Ann on November 14, 2018, 06:34:02 AM
As for why the dictionary changed, it's probably because a change in usage was noted. Dictionaries try to describe what they see happening with words, rather than prescribing what should happen, though there's a fine line there for sure.

Well, they have to be careful else there could be a repeat of the violence that happened in 2013.

4 Copy Editors Killed In Ongoing AP Style, Chicago Manual Gang Violence (https://www.theonion.com/4-copy-editors-killed-in-ongoing-ap-style-chicago-manu-1819574341)

Dan, did you ghostwrite (or is that ghost write) that story?

Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Post-Doctorate D on November 14, 2018, 06:37:48 AM
Dan, did you ghostwrite (or is that ghost write) that story?

No.  I also did not ghost-write it.
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Becca Mills on November 14, 2018, 09:36:38 AM
As for why the dictionary changed, it's probably because a change in usage was noted. Dictionaries try to describe what they see happening with words, rather than prescribing what should happen, though there's a fine line there for sure.

Well, they have to be careful else there could be a repeat of the violence that happened in 2013.

4 Copy Editors Killed In Ongoing AP Style, Chicago Manual Gang Violence (https://www.theonion.com/4-copy-editors-killed-in-ongoing-ap-style-chicago-manu-1819574341)

<chuckle> Love that one.   :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: Gaylord Fancypants on November 17, 2018, 08:49:04 AM
For decades Mirriam-Webster has listed backseat as a noun, and I cringe every time I see it in a novel, which is often.  A backseat driver sits in the back seat, not the backseat.

When spoken there is, or should be, a slight difference between back seat and backseat.

Now, finally, at least in the online version, Merriam-Webster lists back seat as a noun with backseat as a less-common variant.

Why is it, or was it, backseat but not frontseat?

And why is it still backyard but not front yard? You have a backyard cookout in the back yard, not the backyard. Again, when spoken, it's different.

Maybe I should just identify as British and use front garden and back garden. With their love for hyphens maybe a back-seat driver sits in the back seat.

It is common for a two-word noun phrase to be turned into one word (or hyphenated) when used attributively (as though it was an adjective). "I sat in the back seat" and "He's a backseat driver" are both common enough (though admittedly lots of people write them various ways regardless of part of speech). I think that figurative use of "backseat" is way more common than any attributive use of "front seat", which is probably why the one-word spelling has caught on for that but not "frontseat".

Some nouns are used attributively so much they gain new meanings that only occur in the attributive -- like "This is a blanket rule" -- I would argue "backseat" is one of those. Written as one word, or with a hyphen, and used as an adjective to mean "micromanaging something one doesn't have control over" (people say all kinds of things: "she was a backseat mother", "he's a backseat DIYer", etc.

"backyard" is the same way -- we use it attributively in phrases like "backyard barbecue" and "backyard baseball". I'm sure people use "frontyard" attributively sometimes too, though I can't recall actually hearing that, but it certainly isn't as common as backyard. That is probably why it's never written as one word.

So, anyway, in conclusion, I disagree with M&W's decision in this case.
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: JRTomlin on December 16, 2018, 12:04:37 PM
I write novels set in Scotland and refer to kaleyards at least partially because it amuses me. I have had a few people ask me if Scots really ate that much kale.  :icon_rofl:
Title: Re: Merriam-Webster finally agrees with me.
Post by: David VanDyke on December 16, 2018, 03:31:42 PM
I have the same problem when people misuse online and on line. You go on line to look at the online stuff.