Writer Sanctum
Writer's Haven => Writer's Workshop [Public] => Topic started by: idontknowyet on September 05, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
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Is this a new trend or did good authors all decide to start their books of with 10 pages of the main character telling the audience their life's history in the most boring way possible?
Seriously I've deleted four books in the last two days, because they started their books off with an expository essay.
Has the world gone crazy? Is this a new trend in contemporary romance?
What are a few things that make you DNF a book?
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The question comes up a lot on Quora.
People asking how to start their books. I tell them to drop into the action.
But LitRPG and fantasy writers often think they have to do all the world building and history up front, in case the reader doesn't know what's going on.
I didn't know romance had the issue though.
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I've run into it a few times lately. Definitely a DNF for me.
ETA: Yes, the world has gone crazy. I have no doubt of it.
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I've been running into that problem when reading science fiction lately. And I'm a good sport, for the most part; I'm willing to wait a few chapters before the story gets cooking, and I don't mind a spot of introspection. But if I've gotten to chapter five and I still have no idea what the story is about because I'm reading a character diary, I'll DNF. What surprises me lately is that some of the bigger name authors are doing this too. I had to DNF Elizabeth Bear's Ancestral Night because it read like an extremely slow diary.
Oh well! :) Plenty of folks liked that book, but it just wasn't to my taste. I like things a bit more action-y.
Wonder
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I prefer books that start cinematically, like the beginning of World War Z...
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I've been running into that problem when reading science fiction lately. And I'm a good sport, for the most part; I'm willing to wait a few chapters before the story gets cooking, and I don't mind a spot of introspection. But if I've gotten to chapter five and I still have no idea what the story is about because I'm reading a character diary, I'll DNF. What surprises me lately is that some of the bigger name authors are doing this too. I had to DNF Elizabeth Bear's Ancestral Night because it read like an extremely slow diary.
Oh well! :) Plenty of folks liked that book, but it just wasn't to my taste. I like things a bit more action-y.
Wonder
You used to see that kind of thing and know it was a newbie author. You'd expect better from Bear.
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I've been running into that problem when reading science fiction lately. And I'm a good sport, for the most part; I'm willing to wait a few chapters before the story gets cooking, and I don't mind a spot of introspection. But if I've gotten to chapter five and I still have no idea what the story is about because I'm reading a character diary, I'll DNF. What surprises me lately is that some of the bigger name authors are doing this too. I had to DNF Elizabeth Bear's Ancestral Night because it read like an extremely slow diary.
Oh well! :) Plenty of folks liked that book, but it just wasn't to my taste. I like things a bit more action-y.
Wonder
You used to see that kind of thing and know it was a newbie author. You'd expect better from Bear.
I've seen it in authors with a long track record; clearly the editors didn't dare tell them to rewrite it--perhaps rightfully assuming that their fans would not care.
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By the way, I absolutely agree about that particular novel. It is simply dreadful and I have enjoyed a couple of her novels previously. Not sure if that makes me a 'fan' or not, but I definitely did care.
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I prefer books that start cinematically, like the beginning of World War Z...
Good stuff. Rewatching that reminded me of the similar gut-punch opening of Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead remake.
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I prefer books that start cinematically, like the beginning of World War Z...
Good stuff. Rewatching that reminded me of the similar gut-punch opening of Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead remake.
I'll toss in the opening scene of Excalibur. Night battle, fires and torches, smoke and fog, horses' breath, Wagner's music in the background, the clang of steel, and the cries of fighting men. Best part is Merlin emerging from the smoke in his raggedy robe like some sort of grim reaper.
Of course, there is a very brief infodump prior to the title screen. But it's more like a blurb tagline, and it's synced with the music, so it actually adds to the atmosphere rather than detract from it.
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Best advice I ever got was to open a story by chasing your hero up a tree and throwing rocks at him/her. Then get on w/the action. Seems to me that ought to work in any genre, relatively speaking.
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My latest opens at a funeral. Depending on your age, that can strike terror into your heart.
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There is quite a bit of space between 'start with three chapters of irrelevant backstory' and 'start with lots of blood and guts of people no one knows or cares about'.
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There is quite a bit of space between 'start with three chapters of irrelevant backstory' and 'start with lots of blood and guts of people no one knows or cares about'.
The whole point is to make them care in spite of themselves in those 3 chapters.
If they get to the end of chapter 3 and don't care, then you failed as badly as 3 chapters of backstory.
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"Irrelevant" was the keyword. I have no objection to backstory, although I generally prefer not to dump it in the first 3 chapters, but if it is irrelevant then it isn't going to make anyone care.
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There's lots of different options.
Started one book when my characters met as children for the prologue and jumped into the "real" story as chapter 1. Think Greatest Showman.
Most of my books work in back story along the way, as characters ponder on something and it reminds them of something in their past for example.
I remember rushing through "The Plains of Passage" because I couldn't wait for them to get there and meet Jondalar's people. The book wasn't about that at all, but I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Reader expectations factor in but you can't make everyone happy.
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A lot of us aren't going to give anyone 3 chapters. For me it's about 3 pages.
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A lot of us aren't going to give anyone 3 chapters. For me it's about 3 pages.
That's generous! For me it's the first line. If I like it, the first para. If that flies, the first page. If the writing holds me that far, I'll buy the book.
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A lot of us aren't going to give anyone 3 chapters. For me it's about 3 pages.
That's generous! For me it's the first line. If I like it, the first para. If that flies, the first page. If the writing holds me that far, I'll buy the book.
For me it's the storytelling not the writing, per se; so, unless an opening paragraph is some mangled, incoherent mess I've never made a judgement that early.
I've been hooked by the first page, but I never hold a book to that expectation. The first chapter is my cut point, though most of the books that turn out to be really great have hooked me in the first few pages.
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I tend to write my first chapter, realize later it's too much exposition and cut it or turn it into a sentence or two. I'm getting better at in media res.
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I actually switched from very action-y beginnings to more boring ones because my readers seem to prefer it. I still can't do full boring, but semi-boring works too. :shrug
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I think one of very few occasions when I've given up on a novel on the first page was when I started what seemed to be a kind of standard historical romance and the heroine suddenly teleported herself from her family's town house to their country house to bring back a book she'd forgotten. There was no hint of the paranormal in the blurb, the title, the category, anything.
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There are a ton of authors who sell huge who start their books in the most boring way possible. I don't know why readers don't care, but I guess they don't.
I won't read a book with a boring start. If an author doesn't make an effort to hook me, I'm out. It means they won't make an effort to make the rest of the book engaging IME.
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There are a ton of authors who sell huge who start their books in the most boring way possible. I don't know why readers don't care, but I guess they don't.
Could it be that we as writers can't read as do readers?
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There are a ton of authors who sell huge who start their books in the most boring way possible. I don't know why readers don't care, but I guess they don't.
Could it be that we as writers can't read as do readers?
I was a reader long before I was a writer.
Sure I edit more while I read now, but what holds my attention hasn't really changed.
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I guess Steinbeck isn't too popular here...
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Styles of storytelling change, although I think acceptance of a certain style depends very much on the type of story being told. Deep POV is considered extremely important in romance right now but a classic mystery can start with plenty of exposition.
Best-selling authors can get away with however they want to tell their stories because their large number of fans will make allowances and simply bask in the experience of reading another book by a favorite author.
There are individuals who say they don't like it when a book begins with dialogue, which obviously is the cutting edge of in medias res. On the other hand, in our visual age we don't really need the heavy use of descriptions that prior eras used to set up their scenes. We have an immense volume of visual experiences to call on. We've all seen what an elephant looks like.
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We've all seen what an elephant looks like.
:icon_mrgreen:
I've just written a character admitting he had no idea what an elephant was.
I managed to not explain it to him, but had him sent a description he reads without telling the reader.
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A lot depends for me on whether the book is a new-to-me author or a book by someone I've liked in the past. In other words, I'll keep going in spite of a slow opening with the author whose books have passed muster before. The new author has very limited words to catch me or I'm gone. That comes, I think, from being disappointed so often that I start a book by a new-to-me author expecting not to like it enough to keep going.
With dialog openings, it depends for me on whether there's no hint who the speakers are - they're just floating heads spouting off. Weave in enough info to give a sense of place and character and that's different. Less need for that is an advantage series have, of course.
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Could it be that we as writers can't read as do readers?
I don't think so. Interesting is interesting. I don't find things interesting as a writer. I find them interesting or not. I was an impatient reader before I ever wrote a novel. I am less patient now, but that's as much because of my wealth of options.
"Interesting" is subjective, sure. I may have a higher bar, but no one ever quit a book because it was too interesting. So there's really no reason not to make an effort.
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I used to communicate with an author who has since passed away, but was always generous with her critques. She used to ask me, "Do you know how to delete words? See that big rectangle with the word backspace on it? Place your finger on it and press down." She also used to say, "This is a great start, what happens next?" after I sent a full manuscript.
She was the one who taught me to write all the backstory I wanted, but to leave it in the hopper with the rest of the cut bits from the first draft.
If a book isn't starting in the middle of an action, even if it's a character being introspective, it's probably starting at the wrong spot. With few exceptions, most books I've hit publish on begin with the second or third chapter even though they all say they start with chapter one.
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I agree that any novel has the potential to sell to someone (no matter how bad the novel) but not every novel (good or bad) can sell. B/c there are writerly books and readerly books - those a writer will read and appreciate (ie, a small audience) and those a reader will read and propel onto the bestseller lists. Which suggests that consistent sales depend on our producing readerly books shaped by our reading of how our readers read. A thing I find :HB.
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I agree that any novel has the potential to sell to someone (no matter how bad the novel) but not every novel (good or bad) can sell. B/c there are writerly books and readerly books - those a writer will read and appreciate (ie, a small audience) and those a reader will read and propel onto the bestseller lists. Which suggests that consistent sales depend on our producing readerly books shaped by our reading of how our readers read. A thing I find :HB.
Well isn't the norm and the solution that anyone aspiring to be a writer is and should be an avid reader as well? And an avid reader of the sort of stuff he wants to write commercially? It'd be very peculiar if an aspiring musician didn't regularly listen to music; or, if they aspired to commercial success in a popular genre it'd be odd if they only listened to fringe underground music.
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I had to DNF Elizabeth Bear's Ancestral Night because it read like an extremely slow diary.
Oh, thanks be to the gods! I thought it was just me. I was so excited to get the book, and it's just a big yawn. I'm reading something now that's spent three chapters getting the characters from their day off to the start of a new adventure that's eventually going to end up with zombies, and I can't stand it. I've skipped most of it, trying to get to something interesting, but I think this is going to end up a DNF.