Author Topic: How do you guys do beats?  (Read 1173 times)

Gregg Bell

How do you guys do beats?
« on: July 13, 2024, 08:17:41 AM »
If they don't come out organically on the first draft sometimes I have a hard time adding them later. Too many heads shaking and nodding and shrugs.
 

Cabbages and kings

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2024, 07:57:01 PM »



« Last Edit: July 23, 2024, 04:32:44 AM by Cabbages and kings »
"The time has come," the walrus said,
"to talk of many things:
of shoes and ships,
and sealing wax,
of cabbages and kings."
 
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Vijaya

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2024, 01:22:02 AM »
I try to write my scenes with action, so the dialogue is hardly ever just talking heads. Ex. a conversation during a drive or while cooking, etc. I write very domestic stories, so it's not the action of "action movies."


Author of over 100 books and magazine pieces, primarily for children
Vijaya Bodach | Personal Blog | Bodach Books
 
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alhawke

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2024, 03:14:29 AM »
If they don't come out organically on the first draft sometimes I have a hard time adding them later. Too many heads shaking and nodding and shrugs.
My process involves rewrites. I draft a first draft. Then I redraft. Then I redraft (sometimes a hundred times per chapter). I add filler or a pause when the conversation is getting too dialog heavy. I tend to add in scenery and descriptions with further rewrites. My chapters are driven by dialog, by my characters (with the exception of my epic fantasies, which are less dialog heavy). Basically, I write with two hats: writer and editor. The editor side takes care of excessive body language, mood or action problems in revisions. I don't outline. Oh, and if the chapter isn't working, it's thrown away.

Gregg, welcome to Writer Sanctum!  :mhk9U91:
 
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LilyBLily

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2024, 07:36:51 AM »
Heads nodding happens a lot in real life as we acknowledge what some other person says, but in books, it is a problem. The same with shrugging. I try not to let them do any of these more than once per character per book; it's a struggle, because I am not a literary stylist who can come up with inspired descriptions--and I suspect my readers are not looking for same, either. I like the idea from that video of thinking about what the characters might be doing that is significant during a dialogue.

However, I have been bored and annoyed by too many books in which a visceral sexual reaction to someone is described at great length and stops the action altogether--or worse, forces the female lead to then stammer, stutter, say utterly stupid stuff, drop things, and generally make a fool of herself. Hate that. 

Somewhere in between would be nice, wouldn't it?
 
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Gregg Bell

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2024, 11:05:50 AM »
If they don't come out organically on the first draft sometimes I have a hard time adding them later. Too many heads shaking and nodding and shrugs.
My process involves rewrites. I draft a first draft. Then I redraft. Then I redraft (sometimes a hundred times per chapter). I add filler or a pause when the conversation is getting too dialog heavy. I tend to add in scenery and descriptions with further rewrites. My chapters are driven by dialog, by my characters (with the exception of my epic fantasies, which are less dialog heavy). Basically, I write with two hats: writer and editor. The editor side takes care of excessive body language, mood or action problems in revisions. I don't outline. Oh, and if the chapter isn't working, it's thrown away.

Gregg, welcome to Writer Sanctum!  :mhk9U91:

Hi A.L. That's helpful. I think the editor in me thinks the writer in me is lazy when it comes to action beats. But the editor in me is straightened things out. Thanks for the welcome! Nice to be here!
 
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PJ Post

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2024, 06:46:47 AM »
I write dialog like a dance. It's all call and response, timing and rhythmic beats. Any break in that dance can throw the reader out of the scene, but they still need adequate exposition to follow the narrative, not the least of which is who is talking at any given time. Each character should generally be unique enough to be identifiable from their vocabulary and speech pattern, as well as by their emotional state, but that's not always the case. So we need a few tags here and there. I find that unless I'm making a narrative point, the more transparent the tag the better. "Said" is a good go to. If I need more to capture a moment, I usually throw in some show along with the tell. For example, it's not enough to say the character is short of breath (i.e.: breathlessly) - we need to know why. Insert action beats here. I use them a lot, hopefully, without interrupting the dance - I often use them like slow motion or shallow depth of field in film, hyper focusing on the main character's stream of consciousness. I write in first person present, though, so there's that. But...sometimes telling is just expedient, so, the occasional murmured or whispered or hissed is fine. In the end, if it works - it works. Whatever keeps them up at night turning pages.

To be fair though, most of my beats come later. My first pass is almost all dialog, usually as fast as I can type - for better or worse.

So, I edit like alhawke and clean up the flow, tighten it, loosen it or double-down on themes that may not have even been intended on the first pass, including going back and inserting foreshadowing or one of Chekov's guns from a future chapter/scene - lots and lots of editing. I try to avoid static conversations like Vijaya noted, and use whatever's going on, thoughts and observations to improve immersion and help guide the scene, sometimes I'll even throw in a flashback if I want the reader to pause and reflect.

I'm very character focused, though. Most of my dialog (on the rare occasion when it's good, at any rate) has lots of layers: surface word play, relationships, character, backstory, motivation and foreshadowing. I wind them up and let them go, see what happens. As far as I'm concerned, plots are usually the things that get in the way of the story.
 
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Gregg Bell

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2024, 04:35:30 AM »
I write dialog like a dance. It's all call and response, timing and rhythmic beats. Any break in that dance can throw the reader out of the scene, but they still need adequate exposition to follow the narrative, not the least of which is who is talking at any given time. Each character should generally be unique enough to be identifiable from their vocabulary and speech pattern, as well as by their emotional state, but that's not always the case. So we need a few tags here and there. I find that unless I'm making a narrative point, the more transparent the tag the better. "Said" is a good go to. If I need more to capture a moment, I usually throw in some show along with the tell. For example, it's not enough to say the character is short of breath (i.e.: breathlessly) - we need to know why. Insert action beats here. I use them a lot, hopefully, without interrupting the dance - I often use them like slow motion or shallow depth of field in film, hyper focusing on the main character's stream of consciousness. I write in first person present, though, so there's that. But...sometimes telling is just expedient, so, the occasional murmured or whispered or hissed is fine. In the end, if it works - it works. Whatever keeps them up at night turning pages.

To be fair though, most of my beats come later. My first pass is almost all dialog, usually as fast as I can type - for better or worse.

So, I edit like alhawke and clean up the flow, tighten it, loosen it or double-down on themes that may not have even been intended on the first pass, including going back and inserting foreshadowing or one of Chekov's guns from a future chapter/scene - lots and lots of editing. I try to avoid static conversations like Vijaya noted, and use whatever's going on, thoughts and observations to improve immersion and help guide the scene, sometimes I'll even throw in a flashback if I want the reader to pause and reflect.

I'm very character focused, though. Most of my dialog (on the rare occasion when it's good, at any rate) has lots of layers: surface word play, relationships, character, backstory, motivation and foreshadowing. I wind them up and let them go, see what happens. As far as I'm concerned, plots are usually the things that get in the way of the story.

Lot of good stuff there. Appreciate it.
 

Lorri Moulton

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2024, 11:30:12 AM »
Honestly, if I'm at a loss for some good banter between my main characters, I watch some Bogart and Bacall.


Author of Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction @ Lavender Cottage Books
https://lavendercottagebooks.com/
 
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Gregg Bell

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2024, 05:33:02 AM »
Honestly, if I'm at a loss for some good banter between my main characters, I watch some Bogart and Bacall.



LOL An endless supply of rapid fire dialogue and some good action beats too! Thanks. Made my day.
 
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The Bass Bagwhan

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2024, 06:26:52 PM »
Don't think of beats being necessarily a character's expressive action — nods, shrugs, etc. Beats are really more a way of subtlety identifying the character without resorting to a dialogue tag.

He opened the window. "The weather is changing."

She tapped the desk with a finger. "I'm still waiting."

He waited until she stopped crying. "Do you understand now?"

The worst repetition I see by far as an editor is "smiling". Everyone is forever smiling at each other.
 
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Gregg Bell

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2024, 04:36:42 AM »
Yeah, that's good, Bass. Thanks.
 

Vidyut

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2024, 11:16:22 AM »
I try to have what I call an action script as well as a dialogue script for dialogue-heavy scenes rather than just using the setting or a mundane activity like folding the laundry or having dinner. For example, if the plot has a character going through a divorce, and he's discussing it with a friend, I might set it over them repairing an old car.

So on the obvious level, we have that bonding moment, we can break and use the car before and after this incident, and we don't need moving body parts (smiled, waved, gazed, nodded, shook... generic one verb shows) to escort the dialogue to the page, and can keep switching between what's going on with the action and dialogue to prevent any "drone" of something going on too long.

But it can also have other uses, for example, the person going through the divorce can rant of years of neglect ruining an excellent car, but not see that happening in a marriage at all. And of course, the good old injury for a shocked reaction, etc.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2024, 11:18:40 AM by vidyut »
 
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Gregg Bell

Re: How do you guys do beats?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2024, 09:13:39 AM »
That's good. Thanks. Anything to get rid of 500 million
Quote
smiled, waved, gazed, nodded, shooks.