Probably burnt my boats

[Doglover]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

[TimothyEllis]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

 

[Authoress]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

Well done, why anyone would still want to be there foggles my brain  

[Maggie Ann]

 

Happy to see you here! And we have much better emojis.

[RappaDizzy]

Welcome aboard.

We repair burnt boats (and bridges if you have any of those).
 

[Marigold]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

Just read your post over at the other place. It's still up, as of right now.
Here is my response to your post, Doglover: 

For years I had no problems with the moderation on Kboards. However, over the past year, it has become way too heavy-handed. In particular, there was a thread started by Twisted Tales over there a couple of months ago (https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,300935.0.html) in which the moderators exercised what I considered to be the most extreme favoritism. They modded the posts and comments of some of those who criticized them, while allowing their cronies to post insulting gifs and comments about the persons who were questioning the moderators. When the mods were called on this, they locked that thread and kept it locked, so that it has sunk into oblivion.
As a result, I signed out over there and have not signed back in since. When I check the posts there, as I did just now, I do so as a guest. Color me totally disgusted.

P.S. Twisted Tales has not posted over there since that thread was locked, which is a great loss to what remains of that community.

*edited again for fairness and clarity after re-reading the entire thread started by Twisted Tales.

[spin52]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

Sure, you can be in our gang. I was amazed that poster was allowed to continue posting as he did, when no one was apparently allowed to even question his credentials.

[Anarchist]

I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

You're making a false claim. The mod didn't say you couldn't question the vendor. The mod said the following...

The vendor, his clients, and his potential clients must all post civilly, including when lodging or responding to criticism or asking/answering probing questions.

That forum has its problems. There's no need to fabricate them.

[Doglover]

I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

You're making a false claim. The mod didn't say you couldn't question the vendor. The mod said the following...

The vendor, his clients, and his potential clients must all post civilly, including when lodging or responding to criticism or asking/answering probing questions.

That forum has its problems. There's no need to fabricate them.

I didn't fabricate anything. The part you have quoted above says that all those people must post civilly and earlier she said that if we were not a client or a potential client, there is no need to post and we'd be better to move on.

I don't know any other way to interpret it.

[Marigold]

I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

You're making a false claim. The mod didn't say you couldn't question the vendor. The mod said the following...

The vendor, his clients, and his potential clients must all post civilly, including when lodging or responding to criticism or asking/answering probing questions.

That forum has its problems. There's no need to fabricate them.

That is what the mod said. However, do her actions match her words?
I didn't read the deleted posts or the ones that got trimmed before the trimming was done. Were those posters civil when they questioned the OP or when they asked probing questions?

Edited to add: When I read the earlier comment by the Mod stating that only clients or potential clients should respond to the OP and all others should move on, I interpreted it the same way Doglover did.

[Doglover]

This is what was said:

If you're not interested in this particular service, move along, nothing to see, here.

In other words, don't question.

[Anarchist]

This is what was said:

If you're not interested in this particular service, move along, nothing to see, here.

In other words, don't question.

If you have no interest in the service, why do you feel a need to question the vendor?

Boredom? To protect other adults? To point out aspects of the vendor's bedside manner that you dislike?

Frankly, I agree with the mods' positions in that thread.

[Authoress]

Welcome aboard.

Many are here because of policies of The Other Place's new owners, but some, like me, are here because of the outrageous, insulting, biased, politically-oriented, and vindictive over-moderation there, which has been going on for years.

  

ETA
I left because they told me I couldn't. (They refused to close my account when requested).

[Post-Doctorate D]

Why should I need to be a potential customer to ask a question?

Several years ago, on another forum, a vendor was selling a stock art bundle.  Hundreds of royalty-free photos and other images you could use on your website, client websites, newsletters, books, wherever.  A huge collection of images covering probably every topic you could think of.

I (and others) questioned the vendor since some of the images were exact matches of images available from stock photo sites, like Getty Images and others.

Turns out the photos and images had not been properly sourced.  And the seller did not have the rights to sell at least some of those images as royalty-free and so on.  It was pulled from sale because of the copyright issues.

Anyone who would have purchased that stock photo bundle and used them could have faced potential copyright infringement lawsuits from Getty and who knows who else.

But since I was not a potential buyer, should I have not been allowed to ask questions like that?

The whole thing about forums is that it lets people knowledgeable on certain topics to ask necessary questions of products, services and vendors that other people may not think of.

I'm not an IP attorney and maybe I don't know as much about copyrights as others may, but I do know some things about copyright and I do recognize when things seem suspect and certain questions need to be raised.  And I think that's important to bring up and ask for the benefit of others that don't know the questions that ought to be asked.

And, likewise, I appreciate it when people question such things on other topics I am less familiar with, even if they aren't a potential customer because I might be and I'd rather not purchase a product or service that may have problems I'm not otherwise aware of.

[WasAnn]

I just read the thread and I give you a round of applause. Welcome aboard!

[Jake]

The moderation there is terrible but they wont ban you for that post. They TRY to do the best they can it's just that they're in over their heads when it comes to running a forum. The worst thing about the new ownership, other than the TOS change, is that those mods have complete control of running the show.

[She-la-te-da]

If you have no interest in the service, why do you feel a need to question the vendor?

Maybe because that's how it's always been done. Someone wants to post their services, they get questioned by anyone who cares to post. You've been a member there long enough to have witnessed that. Now, if that's not how you care to do things, fine, but the attitude you've shown to doglover hasn't been very nice here.

The ghostwriting guy started it all when he got upset about people asking him questions. He's the one who started posting snarky, mean things, and yeah. People got a bit miffed with him. But, it stayed within forum decorum until the mods decided he was a special snowflake and he wasn't to be subjected to the same responses any other vendor got.

[Anarchist]

If you have no interest in the service, why do you feel a need to question the vendor?

Maybe because that's how it's always been done. Someone wants to post their services, they get questioned by anyone who cares to post. You've been a member there long enough to have witnessed that. Now, if that's not how you care to do things, fine, but the attitude you've shown to doglover hasn't been very nice here.

The ghostwriting guy started it all when he got upset about people asking him questions. He's the one who started posting snarky, mean things, and yeah. People got a bit miffed with him. But, it stayed within forum decorum until the mods decided he was a special snowflake and he wasn't to be subjected to the same responses any other vendor got.

Yes. It has been done that way for as long as I can remember. But that's not evidence of its propriety.

As for the attitude I've shown doglover not being very nice, I'm blunt. Bluntness does not equal rudeness. That said, anyone who prioritizes tone over message loses my attention.

It's boring.

[Ellie Drake]

This isn't going to earn me points, but...

I'm actually a ghostwriter who has written best selling books.

It takes more than good writing to be a best seller (Spoiler alert?) so that doesn't say much. My own book suffers from my inability to market. (I'm trying to learn, I swear!)

The biggest hurdle to "proving" you're a best seller is the dreaded NDA. Almost every book I've written has been under an NDA. (I write a 30k book a week, give or take, when my health allows. So at my lowest (2 books a month) to my highest (4 books a month) over the course of two years... well, I've written a lot of books. I've had clients give me bonuses (tips) when the books have hit best seller status. I doubt they'd lie to me about this. But by calling myself a best selling ghost writer, I've got an unsubstantiated claim that I *can't* prove without opening myself to legal troubles, not to mention getting my ghostwriting shut down in a blink.

That said, I'd NEVER publicly (or privately!) speak to anyone the way that poster spoke to the whole thread he was posting in. It's a disgrace to all ghostwriters. Questions are to be expected and are how we form good working partnerships with our respective clients. I'd never dream of speaking to anyone the way he did. It was unprofessional and frankly disgusting.

I do have to say, 0.025 per word is low for someone claiming best selling writing. It makes me nervous - I've heard a lot of clients complain that they've paid low rates and been given work that tiptoes plagiarism or even blatantly rips off best selling books by only changing locations, names, and other minute details. Most of them say they'd never go the cheap route again. I'm not saying that's what he's doing or that only low raters cheat, I'm just saying that generally you get what you pay for. /shrug

I also wonder why he's on kboards instead of sites for freelancers like Upwork. In my experience places like kboards are not the... friendliest... to ghosts.

If anyone has questions about how ghosting works or anything like that, I'm happy to share. And I won't bite your head off or call you unprofessional. I've got thick skin. Fire away. 

ETA: This is not a plug - I'm not offering services at this time.

(Received a PM to start a Ghosting thread - you can find it by going to the Publisher's Office > The 'How Ghosting Works' thread!)

[CoraBuhlert]

Welcome to the Writer Sanctum, doglover. 

I saw the thread at the other place and IMO you were absolutely right to question that service provider, because his behaviour was beyond the pale. I vaguely recall that they are mentioned in a thread in one of the opt-in sections, which has even more info. 

I normally get along fine with the mods at the other place, but they were wrong in your case.

[Doglover]

This is what was said:

If you're not interested in this particular service, move along, nothing to see, here.

In other words, don't question.

If you have no interest in the service, why do you feel a need to question the vendor?

Boredom? To protect other adults? To point out aspects of the vendor's bedside manner that you dislike?

Frankly, I agree with the mods' positions in that thread.

I wasn't seeking your agreement, but just in case you think I need it, KBoards has always been a place which would come up in Google when searching for a particular service. From there, a potential customer could discover more experienced people's opinions and when something looked dodgy, they would be rightfully warned.

That's why.

[Doglover]

The moderation there is terrible but they wont ban you for that post. They TRY to do the best they can it's just that they're in over their heads when it comes to running a forum. The worst thing about the new ownership, other than the TOS change, is that those mods have complete control of running the show.

It was one of the established moderators who peed me off, Jake. I can't remember which one but I suspect it's the one who has never found me appealing! To be honest, having two out of three mods who are not authors themselves is not a good idea, as they can have no idea of the challenges we meet every day.

As to the 'best selling ghostwriter' he won't get many customers with his poor attitude and it is always necessary to wind someone up with that sort of chip on his shoulder. It is too tempting to resist. 

Let's not forget the other 'bestselling ghostwriter' thread, where the poster was rightfully called out for having the exact same follower and happy customer as those on other threads. That same happy customer was also around the net everywhere with the same face and different names. But, as soon as he was questioned, the thread got locked. How is that a helpful forum?

I've done with them. They were once a great place for writers; now they're like the bullies in the school playground. Pathetic.

[Vidya]

Kboards will never learn, it seems. The whole RH fiasco is a direct result of their shutting down any and all attempts to question RH and now here they are, following that same principle with other vendors.

No wonder so many of us came running here like our hair was on fire. You’d think the mass exodus at least would have made them realize what they were doing to alienate so many of us, but they remain willfully ignorant.

[TimothyEllis]

If you have no interest in the service, why do you feel a need to question the vendor?
Boredom? To protect other adults? To point out aspects of the vendor's bedside manner that you dislike?
Frankly, I agree with the mods' positions in that thread.

* Admin hat ON *

I feel the need to express policy about this.

Anyone offering authors a service here can be constructively challenged if anyone feels they need to be. There are so many dodgy people out there making a buck off ripping off authors, that challenging them when they turn up here is necessary.

Having said that, there needs to be a solid basis for making a challenge. At the very least, some red flags which can be highlighted and used to request clarification.

Anything which is just an attack will be zombied. De-railing what seems like legitimate concerns will also be zombied.

Concerns should be presented in a nice fashion. Answers should also be presented in a nice fashion. If it gets not nice, it gets locked, becomes an asteroid, or zombied. Attempts to make this happen will be zombied.

Everyone is under the same rules, including the OP.

Service providers are welcome here. But dodgy ones need to be highlighted as such. Get enough of them, and we may end up with a 'Dodgyville' place to put them. Maybe they wont post here, given the rules and moderation style. But we do need to address these when they do come here.

* Admin hat OFF *

[guest819]

The problem as I see it (and I'm aware we're veering off-topic) is that KB sees their venue as a place for budding and noobie writers who can be schooled in the preferred way of doing business. Usually by their own approved author cliques. They don't want in-house spats chasing off the more snowflake types who cannot handle dissension or disagreements. The writers who they deem insignificant but troublesome (i.e. we're not big enough to rub shoulders with the cliques) are censured until they fall into line, get banned or other until the moderators are satisfied that all is as it should be in their little worlds.

At least now you can 'buck the moderators' in public and they won't mute you as they did me for ten months. They stopped that after I wrote to the new owners and tore them off a strip, within two days I was back online. Much to the dismay of many there who were happy that the 'troublemaker' was silenced. (All I'd done was to commiserate with a fellow poster who had been moderated).

Back on topic, the GW on the other thread did respond to my enquiries and sent me information which I'm loathe to pass on to anyone because I don't think it will help the author who he 'says' he wrote for and it certainly doesn't help him. There was nothing in the three PM's he sent that would inspire me to put work his way. So, I've done my due diligence and put my findings on that thread. If it gets removed, then I'll kick up a stink, or not... I'm not sure I care enough.

[Doglover]

The most important lesson I learned from twenty years working for myself (as a driving instructor) was that one needs to be polite to potential customers even if you are certain they are a pratt.

I even had one new pupil, qualified in her own country, who seriously asked me if it would be all right if she drove on the right (we drive on the left in England). What can one say to that? I managed to politely ask her to consider what would happen if she drove on the other side of the road to all the other traffic.

Had I said what I was thinking: 'you silly cow; you shouldn't even be out on foot' I doubt I'd have got her money. 

[Marigold]

Doglover just got banned from the KB thread.

[Vidya]

"Doglover just got banned from the KB thread."

No surprise there. Like I said, KB remains clueless.

[Marigold]

A better way for the KB mods to respond in situations concerning long-term members posting rather blunt critiques in newbie threads might be to say, "So and so, we respect you and we value your input. However, do you think you could phrase your responses a bit more diplomatically?"

That sort of response would show respect both for the newbie and for the long-term KB member.

[Anarchist]

"Doglover just got banned from the KB thread."

No surprise there. Like I said, KB remains clueless.

She got banned from the thread after saying this about the vendor...

"If he does that and decides he doesn't like what he sees, you will doubtless call him 'unprofessional'."

That behavior is prohibited by KB's Forum Decorum, and a thread ban isn't an outrageous response.

[spin52]

"Doglover just got banned from the KB thread."

No surprise there. Like I said, KB remains clueless.

She got banned from the thread after saying this about the vendor...

"If he does that and decides he doesn't like what he sees, you will doubtless call him 'unprofessional'."


That behavior is prohibited by KB's Forum Decorum, and a thread ban isn't an outrageous response.

The vendor actually said, more than once, that people who contacted him and then decided not to use his services were 'unprofessional', which I took to mean that he considered them time-wasters. Surely anyone can inquire about what someone has to offer, and then make an informed decision about whether or not to engage them. That's sensible, not unprofessional.

[Anarchist]

"Doglover just got banned from the KB thread."

No surprise there. Like I said, KB remains clueless.

She got banned from the thread after saying this about the vendor...

"If he does that and decides he doesn't like what he sees, you will doubtless call him 'unprofessional'."


That behavior is prohibited by KB's Forum Decorum, and a thread ban isn't an outrageous response.

The vendor actually said, more than once, that people who contacted him and then decided not to use his services were 'unprofessional', which I took to mean that he considered them time-wasters. Surely anyone can inquire about what someone has to offer, and then make an informed decision about whether or not to engage them. That's sensible, not unprofessional.

Sure, but that doesn't invalidate the Forum Decorum rules on KB.

Does the vendor come across as an asshole? Yeah, of course.

Did doglover violate Forum Decorum? Yes.

Are thread bans sometimes doled out to members who violate Forum Decorum on KB? Yes.

There's no mystery to this incident. Nor is outrage warranted over an outcome that should've been an expectation.

I'll now surrender the floor to any who'd like to continue howling about the injustice of it all.

[David VanDyke]

I'll now surrender the floor to any who'd like to continue howling about the injustice of it all.

...he howled.

[Vidya]

I'll now surrender the floor to any who'd like to continue howling about the injustice of it all.

We’re writers; of course we’re going to howl. It’s fun. I love making noise; don't you? It gives a real dopamine hit.

And when we do it in real life, people get fed up of us and send us to the doghouse. This is why we congregate with like-minded howlers on the net.

[Doglover]

"Doglover just got banned from the KB thread."

No surprise there. Like I said, KB remains clueless.

She got banned from the thread after saying this about the vendor...

"If he does that and decides he doesn't like what he sees, you will doubtless call him 'unprofessional'."

That behavior is prohibited by KB's Forum Decorum, and a thread ban isn't an outrageous response.

But it's fine for him to post time and again that people asking samples then saying 'no thanks' are unprofessional? That is obviously not against forum decorum, only insulting to those potential customers. I see.

All I did was repeat what he said; why did they not ban him?

Not that it matters; it's not the first thread I've been banned from and I doubt it will be the last. She also banned me from the Books Butterfly thread because apparently, I've never used the 'service' so I've no right to comment. Geez!

And another thing - when I was a moderator on a pet forum, if we wanted to ban someone from a thread, we had the good manners to do it privately. I suppose they think that doing it publicly will embarrass members and I know many that would be so embarrassed; I'm not one of them. 

[LilyBLily]

When something bothered me that could not be fixed, my mother gave me a piece of good advice: "Let it go."

I'm not trying to tell you that you have no right to feeling dissed, just that since you aren't going to get the justice you want in this instance, it's time to stop nursing the grievance and move on. For your sake.

[Doglover]

When something bothered me that could not be fixed, my mother gave me a piece of good advice: "Let it go."

I'm not trying to tell you that you have no right to feeling dissed, just that since you aren't going to get the justice you want in this instance, it's time to stop nursing the grievance and move on. For your sake.

Sorry, but it's not in my nature to 'let it go' and I'm not nursing anything. I had forgotten all about it until you posted, well, more or less. But thanks anyway.

[Pandorra]

I have probably burnt my boats on that other place and am expecting a ban any minute. I have had the audacity to question the might moderator over a so-called ghostwriter who, apparently, we are not allowed to question unless we have used his services.

Can I come and play here, please? 

There goes the neighborhood! 

Missed you, Doglover!