Author Topic: Market your story first and then the book? Turn it into a movie! I can help.  (Read 3507 times)

Movie Magic

I wanted to introduce myself to the community. 

My name is Troy Bakewell and I have discovered a way to produce quality feature films for a fraction of the cost of most filmmakers.  I'm happy to discuss in detail how I'm able to do this if you are interested.

It occurred to me that both aspiring writers and self published authors might benefit from having their novel produced into a independent feature film.  The film would help promote the book and vice versa.  In fact I believe that getting your story out there to the masses is actually easier with a movie than a book, but I could be wrong and I'm probably biased a little.  lol

Just to give everyone an idea of what is possible here is the trailer for a film I produced for  only $50k and I sold it for a five figure profit to Nicely Entertainment.



I believe a quality film can be produced for as low as $25k and there are ways to raise part of that budget with product placement agreements.  What's great about feature films is that now days, getting distribution is extremely easy compared to just a few years ago, mainly due to the incredible growth of streaming services like Tubi, Pluto and Amazon Prime.  Therefore it's not hard to get a quality film out there to get noticed and generate an audience, thus helping to promote the book it was based off of.  This presents a great opportunity to market your story first, and your skills as a writer, to then promote your book by turning it into a movie first.

Again, if you are interested in learning more please feel free to reach out to me.  I'd be happy to answer all of your questions either via email or we could jump on a phone call as well.

Thanks for reading and have a great day everyone.

Troy Bakewell

[email protected]
 
 

TimothyEllis

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I have to say I debated if I approved this post or not.

Given how often we are all being bombarded by scammers pretending to be successful authors, one has to wonder if this is a scammer pretending to be Troy Bakewell. How are we to even know?

I did a quick search on the name, and found an Instagram account with no posts and 129 followers, and that always screams scammer on Quora. Might mean the posts have been taken down, but it's suspicious to have followers and no posts.

Even if this is legit, and I'm not convinced, pitching $25,000 costs to authors who generally can't afford $2,000 to produce an audiobook would seem to be pointless.

The only authors I would think can afford to do what you're pushing would be those in the top half of the 6 figure range, or even 7 figures. And that's a very tiny percentage of even successful authors.

As far as the trailer you posted, I found it boring. Sorry. I've no idea why anyone would buy that.

And a 5 figure profit off a 5 figure cost doesn't sound all that good to me.

I can't see anyone here being interested in anything that expensive.

E2A: A Gmail account is very suspicious. Any successful film maker will have their own domain and use an email address from that. Gmail is what scammer use. I don't take anyone seriously who uses Gmail.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 02:12:26 PM by TimothyEllis »
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Movie Magic

Hey Timothy.

I appreciate you allowing it.

Trust me though, it's a guy thing.  There is a huge market for these types of Romantic movies and even more so Christmas movies.  But I agree, it's not a movie I would ever watch.  lol

I assure you I am real and legit.  I have a youtube page and I'm happy to jump on a zoom or facetime call with you if you are still concerned.

As far as my instagram page, I think I signed up once to contact an "influencer" years ogo about being cast in a film.  I'm kindof new to Facebook even.  Not huge on social media in general.

Feel free to shoot me an email and I'll reply with my cell and we can jump on a facetime call if you are still concerned.

Thanks.

Troy

[email protected]
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 02:35:12 PM by Movie Magic »
 

Movie Magic

I've always used gmail.  Why is that suspicious?  I have a very unique name.  Did you google me?

Here's my IMDB page:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4021176/


In the movie business, your IMDB page is everything.  It's your resume, calling card etc.

Anyway, I assure you I'm 100% legit.

BTW and FWIW, I know very little about the book business, however I have been hired several times as a cinematographer for movies that were produced by authors of self published novels or biographies.  Thus my idea to post here.  I can assure you that I can make a high quality movie for less than anyone else.

Anyway, thanks again Timothy.  Feel free to reach out if you have any other concerns.

Troy
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 02:21:17 PM by Movie Magic »
 

TimothyEllis

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I've always used gmail.  Why is that suspicious?  I have a very unique name.  Did you google me?

Yes, I did. It was inconclusive.

The problem is, all of us are being bombarded by scammer emails supposedly coming from other authors, and all pointing back to legitimate pages and books. The whole point is to get us to engage with them, so they can then talk marketing, and recommend their expert. It's all a con.

There are scammers out there pretending to be me to con people into doing fake marketing. I don't actually do any, but people believe I do when told it by a scammer.

These days, not having your own domain for business email is suspicious. Gmail is for hiding who you are, or for people who can't afford a basic hosting domain package. Neither of those inspire confidence.

I've no idea what IMDB is. And that link says nothing on it's own. Could be anyone.

As far as the 'book business' goes, the number one scam at the moment is people using AI to create book trailers, and claiming they increase sales, when there is ZERO evidence they actually do.

So you'll need to expect some skepticism from authors being bombarded by scammers. Sad, but true.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Movie Magic

I completely understand the Skepticism.

I assure you I'm legit.

Also to be clear to anyone out there who might be interested in this, in the event they were interested in co producing a feature film, the money would only go into an account that the investor had access to.  The funds would go exclusively to pay cast and crew and vendors and to buy food, insurance etc.  I would never ask anyone to just write a check to me.  You would be signing every check personally from the LLC account.

No funny business here.

Troy 
 

LilyBLily

Since all the author scam emails I receive come from gmail accounts, plus just about all junk emails and phishing attempts, too, I do look askance at anyone claiming to be a professional who can't or won't buy their own domain and get web hosting like legit business people and companies. Just saying. But I get it; you're in a different business.

I watched the trailer. Everybody talks way too fast, but it's cute although badly acted. (Sorry. Everyone's a critic.) I agree with Timothy that most indie authors do not have a budget in the range your initial email describes. But some do, and some are eager to break into Hollywood any way they can. You may strike gold.   
 

Movie Magic

Hey LilyBLily

No offense taken but I think it's important to realize just how bad most sub $100k movies are.  In fact most sub million dollar movies even.  We will have to disagree about the acting.  lol

But I do agree and completely understand that this is a much bigger stakes business and that it will only appeal to a much smaller group who have the means to play in this sandbox.  But to clarify I'm in no way implying to anyone that there is a strong likelihood of "Striking gold".  It does happen occasionally but It's very rare.  However making a solid 50% return on an investment is not uncommon.  At least when you know what you are doing anyway.   

Again I know absolutely nothing about the book business but tend to think that the upside is much larger on a indie movie than a book.  Granted the investment in producing and self publishing a book is lower and likely more labor intensive vs a much higher investment when it comes to making a movie, but I suspect that the overall investment is better since the returns are generally a lot higher. 

Again I could be wrong, but I would think that the reach of movies in general is much higher.  One thing I'm sure of though (or at least pretty sure of anyway) is that a movie made based on your book will dramatically improve your career prospects as a writer.   It will certainly help the sales af the book but even more so I would think it would open a lot of doors for writers in terms of getting an agent and breaking into the big leagues of the book business.

No?

Anyway.  Thanks for your input.

Troy
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 03:15:17 PM by Movie Magic »
 

Movie Magic

I would be the co producer and director.  Adapting your book to a screenplay is something I would handle as well.  To be clear not all books are good candidates for this either.  This is mainly due to the constraints of our budget.  For example, if your story is "a period piece", set in the past, we likely aren't going to be a good fit.  lol.

Story structure for movies is totally different however.  In general it's a much shorter form of writing as well.  Our ideal screenplay is only going to be 85-90 pages when it's done.  If the story in your book is solid with well developed characters adapting it into a screenplay with the help of AI is not such a huge undertaking these days.

I don't want to give away all my secrets here, but yes, a lot of the success of the film will ride on the shoulders of your co-producer and director, me.

The hardest part is Casting By Far.  If we already have the bones of a good story we are 90% of the way there with story.  Once we have a solid screenplay and a solid cast then it's all downhill from there.  That's where my experience comes in to ensure that we shoot it in a way that it looks like a "real" movie.  I am also a very experience "sound guy" as well and good sound is absolutely paramount.

I have a few other "tricks up my sleeve" that allows us to get so much bang for our buck when it comes to production value but I'll save that for one-on-one consultations.

To be clear, I'm looking for someone who wants to be partners with me in making a movie.  There's a lot of work that we will do together.  Scouting locations for example is something I would want my co-producer to help with extensively.  Etc etc...

I hope that helps clarify some things.

Thanks for your thoughts and input Cabbage and kings.

Troy

 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 03:48:43 PM by Movie Magic »
 

TimothyEllis

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adapting it into a screenplay with the help of AI

Puts me off right there.

And it also goes back to those trailers I mentioned. AI BS to market books is a growth scam.

Quite apart from not wanting our books fed into an AI and absorbed into them to spit out at any time in the future.

That's a hard NO.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Movie Magic

I guess I'm not understanding this.

We absolutely need good stories with well developed characters.  Without that we are in big trouble.

Yes there is a reason production designers win best production design too.  But this isn't about winning awards, at least not for me.  It's about manufacturing a product, in this case a motion picture for entertainment purposes, in such a way that it reaches the largest audience possible and generates a decent return.

As two side notes, there are hundreds of film festivals in the US alone.  Almost all of them, with a few exceptions, are complete scams which exist solely to stroke the fragile egos of filmmakers who see themselves more as artists instead of manufactures of an entertainment product.  So if you ever see anyone refer to themselves as award wining filmmakers, run!  lol. They will put your money to sleep fast.

Secondly, if someone wrote me a check for a million dollars tomorrow to go make a movie, I would instead make 20-30 movies with budgets under $50k on average.

Why?  Much better return on that investment by far...   With much less risk as well.  lol

Anyway.  Thanks again for your input.
 

Movie Magic

I can appreciate everyone's apprehensions about AI, but it is what it is.  I suspect that in five years most movies will be produced mostly without cameras.  Believe me that will suck for me.  lol. But storytelling is storytelling and AI will never replace writers or filmmakers IMO.  But they will allow us to be a lot more productive with our time.  We will be able to write both better and faster IMO.

Adapting a book to a screenplay with the help of AI just means it can be done much faster with the HELP of AI.  I highly doubt AI will ever be able to do a good job on it's own.

But who knows.

It certainly can't right now today that's for sure.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 04:26:08 PM by Movie Magic »
 

Movie Magic

Trust me Cabbages.  Decent actors can be found who have yet to be discovered.  But it is the hardest part for sure.  Takes a lot of time to find them.  Most aspiring actors are really bad.  But not all of them.

No way am I suggesting that I can produce a movie that will win an Oscar for $25k. But I can help produce a quality film that should at a minimum earn it's budget back and help promote your book and your skills as a writer.

Thant's my only point.

Good actors won't be interested in the role even, if the writer hasn't written good material.  There are dozens and dozens of examples of big A list hollywood actors taking gigantic pay cuts to work on a film because they love the script and appreciate good writing.  Same goes with the director.  As they say in the biz, "if it aint on the page, it ait on the stage".

Anyway.  Thanks again for the input.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 04:27:10 PM by Movie Magic »
 

Post-Doctorate D

I've no idea what IMDB is. And that link says nothing on its own. Could be anyone.

How do you not know what IMDb is?  :icon_think:  It's one of the few websites that's been around longer than my oldest website.  And, like my oldest site, it pre-dates Google.


E2A: A Gmail account is very suspicious. Any successful film maker will have their own domain and use an email address from that. Gmail is what scammer use. I don't take anyone seriously who uses Gmail.

Agreed.

However, Troy Bakewell does have a history of using gmail addresses.   So there is that.  But I have not been able to connect the gmail address listed in the original post here, [email protected], with any of the accounts I have found for Troy Bakewell.  That doesn't mean the poster here is not Troy Bakewell; only that research so far is inconclusive.

On the upside, his posts here do sound like someone familiar with the movie business.  And he knows the importance of good sound quality.  People will tolerate poor imagery over poor sound.  I tend to think a scammer might not be familiar with details like that.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

Movie Magic

Guys.  Let's just put this to rest for good.  Someone email me and let's jump on zoom call or Facetime call.  lol

I am legit!  100%!  Then whoever "takes one for the team" and chats with me can post that they have confirmed I am legit.  Wow this group must be getting bombarded with scams.  Holy cow.  lol

Troy

[email protected]

or

[email protected]

or

[email protected]

These are my three primary emails.  I use Cosa for my production business,  Indiegear for my gear rental business and derbrocks for craigslist or any other spammy types of emails.

I tempted just to post my cell and a pic of my DL.     Wow.  Tough crowd.  lol
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 09:51:02 PM by Movie Magic »
 

Bill Hiatt

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Here's the problem. None of us, even if we had $25,000 available to spend, are going to give it to someone we can't identify with certainty.

Also, although some of us write romance, many of us don't, and obviously the fantasy and sci fi many of us write isn't going to get made into a low-cost movie.

Back to the original issue. Troy Bakewell on IMDB is listed as a cinematographer or director of photography on the listed movies, including the one you shared the trailer for. Sound department is also listed in Troy's biography. But Troy is never listed as co-producer or director, which is the role you're claiming for the low cost movies you claim to have made. That seems to me to be a significant discrepancy.

Bottom line: none of us is going to jump on board without verification of identity. You're going to need to provide a way in which we can be sure of who you are. 


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Bill Hiatt

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I need to make a correction. The IMDB list view shows Troy Bakewell as cinematographer on Love at Lookout Lake, but the movie page itself lists Troy as director. It also lists Troy as one of several executive producers on the cast and crew details page. I'm not sure why IMDB behaves that way in list view. It seems accurate for other movies with which Troy is connected, though I didn't check all of them.


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Bill Hiatt

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Here's part of Troy's listing on Backstage:

Quote
've been in the business since 2010. 1've specialized in low budget indie features and I have worked as crew in various capacities over the years but primarily in Sound, Camera and Cinematography.

The roles section does list director and producer but assigns Troy more expertise for cinematography. Assuming for the moment that you are Troy, is it safe to assume that your role in converting indie books into indie films is relatively new? The movie in question made a good profit on the initial investment--but it wasn't a conversion of a self-published novel. Do we have any evidence that Nicely Entertainment (or anyone else) is necessarily going to be interested in such a thing?


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Post-Doctorate D

Okay, FWIW, I am reasonably convinced now that this is the actual Troy Bakewell with the IMDb listing.  One of the eMails he just listed is one I am reasonably sure belongs to the Troy Bakewell listed on IMDb.

So, I think we can be reasonably sure he is who he says he is.  Of course, should anyone decide to move ahead with a project with him, a Zoom or FaceTime call could provide better confirmation.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

TimothyEllis

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Of course, should anyone decide to move ahead with a project with him, a Zoom or FaceTime call could provide better confirmation.

Personally, I think he's barking up the wrong tree here.
Genres: Space Opera/Fantasy/Cyberpunk, with elements of LitRPG and GameLit, with a touch of the Supernatural. Also Spiritual and Games.



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Post-Doctorate D

Wow this group must be getting bombarded with scams.  Holy cow.  lol

Oh, yes.  All kinds of scams and all kinds of promises.  Scammers must think authors are flush with cash.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

Post-Doctorate D

Of course, should anyone decide to move ahead with a project with him, a Zoom or FaceTime call could provide better confirmation.

Personally, I think he's barking up the wrong tree here.


Perhaps.  Most of us don't have $25-$50k to spend.  And, most of us don't write the sort of contemporary fiction that may be suitable for such a project.  Though I wonder if cozy mysteries or even some horror might work?

That said, though, we can look beyond our own probably mostly empty bank accounts for funding.  As he mentioned, product placement is a possibility.  There are other options like Kickstarter.  There are people that are willing to spend $500 or $1000 or more for a producer credit on a film.    Others may be willing to invest money if there's a chance on a decent return.  If your movie has a "message" you might find people willing to contribute money to help promote that message.  If shooting takes place in specific locales, you might find people in those locales willing to contribute money to get you to shoot there or to get their business in a background shot or to put their community on the map.  And so on.  There are a lot more opportunities to find funding opportunities with a movie than with a book.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

Lorri Moulton

I'd love to have many of my books made into movies!  When a studio offers to pay ME, we'll talk.  :dog1:


Lavender Cottage Books publishes Romance, Fantasy, Fairytales, Mystery & Suspense, and Historical Non-Fiction.
https://lavendercottagebooks.com/

https://annaviolettabooks.com/
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Thanks for confirming Troy's identity.

I don't really have anything that wouldn't need a large special effects budget. Well, maybe there is one short story that would work and even has the right feel-good vibe. But it's a short story. I can't imagine making a decent-length movie out of it.

If I had the right kind of book, I think groundwork would have to be laid before I jumped onboard. I (and I think for most people) wouldn't want to actually make a film without having the distribution pretty much in place. It doesn't appear to me that Troy has actually sold a movie based on a self-published book before. I'm not sure how many people would spend even $25,000 on a project that might ultimately not go anywhere. I don't know how the system works, but it would seem as if at least there would need to be some gauging of interest in possible partners before cranking out a whole movie. Maybe that's impossible. 


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Post-Doctorate D

I'd love to have many of my books made into movies!  When a studio offers to pay ME, we'll talk.  :dog1:

I think this is basically indie filmmaking.  YOU would essentially be the studio.  The risk is all on you, but the rewards are yours as well.


I don't really have anything that wouldn't need a large special effects budget. Well, maybe there is one short story that would work and even has the right feel-good vibe. But it's a short story. I can't imagine making a decent-length movie out of it.

Short stories have been made into films so it's not impossible.


If I had the right kind of book, I think groundwork would have to be laid before I jumped onboard. I (and I think for most people) wouldn't want to actually make a film without having the distribution pretty much in place. It doesn't appear to me that Troy has actually sold a movie based on a self-published book before. I'm not sure how many people would spend even $25,000 on a project that might ultimately not go anywhere. I don't know how the system works, but it would seem as if at least there would need to be some gauging of interest in possible partners before cranking out a whole movie. Maybe that's impossible. 

You'd definitely want some kind of plan in place.  At the very least, a movie could be put on YouTube, but you'd need a channel that was already monetized so the movie could start earning right away.  Of course, it may take a long time to earn back production costs or even make a profit through YouTube ad revenue.  But that could be the low-end plan.  An upfront agreement with a streaming service might be better.  Or maybe even the Hallmark channel or something like that.  But, yeah, you'd want a plan in place before you start spending money.

Also, don't get too hung up on movies based on indie-published books.  Lots of movies aren't based on any books at all.  They start as screenplays that no one in the public ever saw or read before it showed up on screens.  Basing a movie on a book just gives us a leg up in that the story and characters are already in place.  Adapting a book/story to a screenplay is a skill, but adapting may be faster than writing a screenplay from scratch.

Another thing to think about is, if you have a series, maybe think about writing a prequel that would lead into your series.  Then have the prequel made into a film.  Then you have the option of saying, okay, if you enjoyed the film and want to enjoy more adventures with these characters, buy the books.  And that could help with book sales.  Additionally, should that prequel film do really, really well, you have a pre-existing series you could start making into additional films.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

Post-Doctorate D

I have some questions and ideas.  I am going to start a thread in the Cutting Room Floor as that is a private forum and some of this stuff maybe we don't want the world to see.  So, hopefully, anyone interested in this topic will join the discussion there.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

alhawke

I liked the trailer. But the cost is too high for me for just a marketing trailer alone.
 

Movie Magic

The film I posted the trailer for the entire budget for the film was $50k including the trailer.  The entire film has not been released yet.

Anyway.  I appreciate that many of you have gone to a lot of trouble to conclude that I am who I am, but again wouldn't it just be easier to jump on a video call with me?  I'm wondering why nobody has simply emailed me yet?  lol


I've been working in this industry since 2010 and I have a lot of connections with distribution.  The absolute worst case scenario is a release direct to Youtube / Tubi etc.  Lookout lake has not been released yet because they (Nicely) are holding out for a cable TV sale which hasn't happened yet. 

The key to the movie business is I would imagine the key to the book business as well.  You have to make a product with a specific audience in mind and then you have to deliver a quality product.  If its good enough word of mouth carries it.

I'm not posting here looking for a story necessarily.  I'm looking fore someone with a story who also has the ability to fund it.  I believe I have discovered a way to produce better films for significantly less.  I believe I am the perfect person to partner with if you are interested in independently producing your story into a movie.  I also think that having a movie made based on your book will dramatically improve your book's sales.  Lot's of synergies in play as they would say on CNBC.  lol

I was hired as the cinematographer for several other Nicely Entertainment movies as well.  A Country Music Christmas is one of them.  They spent more than twice as much making that movie than I did making Lookout Lake for example.  Why?  Simply because basically everyone in the movie business thinks the same way, especially in terms of how big of a crew you need.  Nobody thinks outside of the box.  Again I don't want to give away all my secrets here but there are ways to save a lot of money during production that everyone else in this industry refuses to adopt for some reason. There's a lot of group-think in the movie business, believe me.

Anyway, again if you are remotely interested shoot me a quick email and I will respond with my cell immediately and we can jump on a call.

Thanks everyone.

Troy


« Last Edit: December 21, 2025, 06:13:10 AM by Movie Magic »
 

Movie Magic

Hey Bill.

Just wanted to comment on distribution.  A few years ago this was the biggest risk with making an indie film.  without distribution it certainly wasn't going anywhere.  I imagine that was the same situation with the book business as well.

But today authors are no longer at the mercy of book publishers because of technology and the ability to self publish.  The same thing now applies to movies.  Distributors, in the traditional sense, are no longer needed to get your movie out to literally the entire world.  All movies these days "go somewhere".  In general better movies do much better than bad movies.  But even bad movies go somehwere and make some money back.

They key to this business is simply, make a better movie for less.  If you can do that it's not a terribly risky business at all anymore.  Obviously it's a bit more complicated than that.  But in general it's pretty simple.  If you can make basically the same movie for significantly less than everyone else, the odds swing dramatically in your favor.

Thought I'd share that.

Thanks for your comments and input Bill.

Troy
 

Post-Doctorate D

Anyway.  I appreciate that many of you have gone to a lot of trouble to conclude that I am who I am, but again wouldn't it just be easier to jump on a video call with me?  I'm wondering why nobody has simply emailed me yet?  lol

With AI, you can replace your face with someone else and some AI does so rather convincingly.  Thus, a video call doesn't necessarily prove anything in this day and age.  So, we have to do our due diligence using multiple vectors.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

Movie Magic

Good point.  Never thought of that.  But on a basic phone call or facetime, is that still possible?

Replied to the other cutting room floor thread btw.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2025, 10:01:08 AM by Movie Magic »
 

Post-Doctorate D

Good point.  Never thought of that.  But on a basic phone call or facetime, is that still possible?

Don't know but, if there's a way, it's a good bet that a scammer would find it.
"To err is human but to really foul things up requires AI."
 

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The key to the movie business is I would imagine the key to the book business as well.  You have to make a product with a specific audience in mind and then you have to deliver a quality product.  If its good enough word of mouth carries it.

Back in 2015, yes.

But by 2018 it was pay to play, and now if you cold launch, a book plinks into the abyss and just vanishes. Quality and readability is irrelevant.

The following has to come first, because without it, you get no visibility.

It's why pre-orders and social media pushing of the pre-order are essential.

The only authors who can launch cold and sell are those who spent years building a fan base.

But even those authors can't sell audiobooks well enough to rapidly recoup production costs. It takes years to break even on an audiobook in the $2k-3k cost range.

Quote
I'm looking fore someone with a story who also has the ability to fund it.

Hence barking up the wrong tree.


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Movie Magic

Hey Timothy.

Are you telling me that the self publishing business is completely in the toilet now?  I just did a quick google search that seems to indicate that while yes, the overwhelming majority of authors aren't doing well, there is still a smaller percentage, but still totals thousands of authors, who are doing really well as self published authors.

Is that not the case anymore?

Is no one on this site making a six figure or even seven figure annual income from their books?  Are there no success stories among the posters on this forum?

I'n very curious to hear your response.

On. side note, I've long read in books that screen writing paid the best but I'm reminded of Gene Hackman's line in Get Shorty when he opines after asking what kind of writing paid the best, "Ransom Notes".   lol

Thanks for your input.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2025, 01:19:42 PM by Movie Magic »
 

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Are you telling me that the self publishing business is completely in the toilet now?

No. It's the best it's ever been. Trad incomes on the other hand, are going down, which is why the only stats show a decline.

Quote
I just did a quick google search that seems to indicate that while yes, the overwhelming majority of authors aren't doing well, there is still a smaller percentage, but still totals thousands of authors, who are doing really well as self published authors.

Is that not the case anymore?

That is the case.

Quote
Is no one on this site making a six figure or even seven figure annual income from their books?  Are there no success stories among the posters on this forum?

We've had one 7 figure author here, but she hasn't posted in a long time now.

The problem on forums is that when someone declares an income level, people demand they prove it, and then when they do, they claim photoshoped images. We saw that on the forum which came before this one. It's not pretty, and it stopped people from ever disclosing how well they're doing.

As far as 6 figures goes, there's a huge difference in that range. Someone on the low end can't afford to do audiobooks, let alone movies. Someone on the high end are unlikely to even be here.

Most high performing Indies don't need Author forums, or Facebook groups. So you won't find them in them.

Of the small percent of them who do, they're spread out over every author forum there is, and every genre Facebook group there is. So hundreds of authors spread across thousands of sites. Hundreds, because performers who use any form of author site are in the minority of them.


Quote
On. side note, I've long read in books that screen writing paid the best but I'm reminded of Gene Hackman's line in Get Shorty when he opines after asking what kind of writing paid the best, "Ransom Notes". 

What pays the best now is the never ending story. Long series of novels where the story just keeps on going. This is rapid release novels, and either in a single long series, or multiple series in the same universe with a single time line.

These are best suited to tv, not movies. I could put up a movie trilogy based off my only trilogy, and then follow it with 10 seasons of tv shows. But because I do long series, movies are not really possible.

There was a recent series which went for 52 novels, with each one hitting number one in it's main category every time, and then it ended because the author passed away. That author had to be solidly 6 figures just on that one series alone.

Screen writing is a totally different skill, and relies on having an entrance already to the movie industry. Not entrance, no money, because there are way too many people trying to sell scripts to movie people who don't want them, because they have their own script writers.

Novel long series writing relies on having built a fan base already, and if you can keep the momentum going, it keeps on building slowly but surely.

As far as the main question you asked goes, I'm not sure how many 6 figure authors are active here right now, but it's probably less than the fingers on one hand. And of them, I doubt any of them are mid-6.

To spend $25 grand on a movie, which is pure speculation high risk spending, would require someone to be mid 6 or higher, imo. As I said, there's only been 1 7 figure author here, and she isn't active anymore.

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Movie Magic

Very Very interesting.  Thanks so much for sharing Timothy.

My wheels are turning.

One thing I found extremely interesting when I just googled this is how much more money there is in book sales on a per unit basis.  The idea of clearing even a dollar per view on a movie is so intriguing.  If that were the case making millions would be easy.  With movies, most of the growth is in AVOD platforms where anyone can go and watch the movie for free and the filmmaker basically shares a smaller percentage of the ad revenue generated by the commercials you must watch.  It's a similar model to how YouTube channels make money.  There simply isn't a way for a book to be distributed in the same way.  Where anyone can go read it and the author shares in ad revenue.   Very interesting.

So let's say an author had a series of books in very long form that weren't really knocking any doors down in terms of earnings, but the writing was solid and the characters spanned the entire series.  I would think that producing one movie with those characters would cause that authors sales to explode, if say the film achieved a million views.  BTW getting a million views is not that hard at all.   You are saying that such an author would never have the ability to fund the film.  But here's the huge question I have.

Would such an author be willing to sell a percentage of their library outright if I was able to find an investor for the film?  Would an author be willing to say, my books have been earning an average of $1,000 per month.  Mr. film producer, if you fund the film and my sales increase to $5,000 per month, I'll split the increased sales with you.

Where I'm going with my thinking here is that I would bet that the increase in book sales will be way more profitable than the underlining film simply because the film would promote the entire series of books.  I assume that once a reader reads one book in the series they are way more likely to read the rest correct?.  The film will most certainly find a much larger audience, but in general the film will make about a nickel every time someone watches it, while the books will earn way more.

I'm really beginning to like this idea the more I think about it because, as I stated in the other thread with my big long response to Post Doctorate D's question, films and video content in general just reaches a much much larger audience in general.  It's not even close and it's just the world we live in now.

Personally I'm not a huge reader but a high percentage of the fiction that I have read in the past have been books that were the source material for movies I liked.

Perhaps this is a new thing now that Hollywood has basically changed their entire business from 20 years ago.  So much of what Hollywood puts out these days are visually stunning action type films simply because the US box office and market are a tiny percentage of their business now versus 20-30 years ago where it was the opposite.  These are the types of movies that translate over different cultures and languages and that's why Hollywood makes completely different movies now than the did a few decades ago.   Perhaps everything has flipped now.  25 years ago Hollywood would look to books back when stories and not visuals were king.  Perhaps the new technology that makes filmmaking so much more affordable has flipped it where a movie is now the driving marketing force for book sales?

Just thinking out loud here, but I'm certain that if anyone here has a series of books with the same characters and is interested in some kind of deal I outlined above, I'm certain I can get the film funded.

I'm super curious to hear your thoughts on this Timothy.

Wish this were all under one thread though.  lol

Troy
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One thing I found extremely interesting when I just googled this is how much more money there is in book sales on a per unit basis.  The idea of clearing even a dollar per view on a movie is so intriguing.  If that were the case making millions would be easy.  With movies, most of the growth is in AVOD platforms where anyone can go and watch the movie for free and the filmmaker basically shares a smaller percentage of the ad revenue generated by the commercials you must watch.  It's a similar model to how YouTube channels make money.  There simply isn't a way for a book to be distributed in the same way.  Where anyone can go read it and the author shares in ad revenue.   Very interesting.

The closest is Kindle Unlimited, where the author gets a slice of the payout pool based on number of pages read.

For authors doing well in it, it can be 65% of their income, even though it's way less for a full read than a sale.

Quote
So let's say an author had a series of books in very long form that weren't really knocking any doors down in terms of earnings, but the writing was solid and the characters spanned the entire series.  I would think that producing one movie with those characters would cause that authors sales to explode, if say the film achieved a million views.  BTW getting a million views is not that hard at all.   You are saying that such an author would never have the ability to fund the film.

We don't know how many views our books get unless you're doing ads, and that reporting is unreliable anyway.

Views of everything is misleading. Something gets put into my feed, and I can't help but see it, even when totally not interested, and it gets registered as a view. Very misleading.


Quote
But here's the huge question I have.
Would such an author be willing to sell a percentage of their library outright if I was able to find an investor for the film?  Would an author be willing to say, my books have been earning an average of $1,000 per month.  Mr. film producer, if you fund the film and my sales increase to $5,000 per month, I'll split the increased sales with you.

Hold the bus!

$1000 a month for one book is the realm of new releases, which do that once in their entire life.

Most books more than 3 months old are doing less than $100 a month, even if they did that $1000 in the first month. $100 a month after the first 3 months is doing extremely well.

6 figure authors mainly make their money from new releases, and the steady increase in the back catalogue which is all making 10c to $100 a month. And most of that would be Kindle Unlimited reads.

Quote
Where I'm going with my thinking here is that I would bet that the increase in book sales will be way more profitable than the underlining film simply because the film would promote the entire series of books.  I assume that once a reader reads one book in the series they are way more likely to read the rest correct?.  The film will most certainly find a much larger audience, but in general the film will make about a nickel every time someone watches it, while the books will earn way more.

No-one is going to thank you for making a movie from book 1, and then not doing the rest of the series. If anything, that will blow back on the author really badly.

If you're doing book 1, then you need to do the entire series. Doing book 1 as an ad will just infuriate people.

Your math doesn't math. A sale can generate $2-3 for an author, while a full read in KU generated $1.25. (On a 250 page book properly priced.)

But the number of sales/full read at that is going to be less than 3000 in a year. So your nickle on a view with over a million views is probably going to be much more lucrative.

The thing is though, that 'million views' is hardly guaranteed. Nothing to do with books is.

Quote
Just thinking out loud here, but I'm certain that if anyone here has a series of books with the same characters and is interested in some kind of deal I outlined above, I'm certain I can get the film funded.

I seriously doubt that. It it was possible, it would be happening all the time now. It's not.

And as I said with series, you either do the entire series, or you don't do it at all. Because people are fed up with tv and movie series that never get completed.

Quote
Would such an author be willing to sell a percentage of their library outright if I was able to find an investor for the film?  Would an author be willing to say, my books have been earning an average of $1,000 per month.  Mr. film producer, if you fund the film and my sales increase to $5,000 per month, I'll split the increased sales with you.

Where's the evidence that this sort of thing is even possible on a small Indie film?

There would need to be actual documentation somewhere on multiple books turned into Indie movies where the movie flowed back into the books. And that would also need to show the instances where it didn't.

Otherwise, it's just speculation as to possibilities.

How long does that split of sales run for? A movie is only going to have a single viewing spike like a book does, and once that's over, unless something happens to spike again, the book will return to it's previous level, or lower, and at that point, you don't want to be still splitting it.

One would need to see the wording of a contract to even consider that.

Honestly, that 1 to 5 k increase will only last a short time, and then the book returns to normal. If it lasts for 3 months, then you're splitting 4k for 3 months, giving you 6k return, but that will be receding anyway. On a 25-50k investment, that's not a good result.

This only works if the viewership is constant for a long period.

The other factor is conversion rate. What percent of that million views is even going to finish watching it, let alone check out the book? 1%?

We know from social media followings that if if you can get 1% of your following ordering your pre-order, then you're doing better than most.

So a million views is how many book views? We don't know.

Example, I enjoyed Ready Player One. I didn't read the book. And that was a blockbuster movie, not a minor funded Indie.
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Movie Magic

Holy pessimism Batman.  lol  No offense Timothy but I find it extremely hard to believe some of the tings you are saying.

Clearly there are thousands of authors who are making six figures every year, according to my research anyway.  As you said before many of them aren't on this forum but they are out there correct?  In fact there are some who approach 7 figures no?

Thus how can you say "hold the bus, $1000 a month is only the realm of new releases"?  Are these authors releasing 10-100 new books a month?  Obviously not right? 

Also how can you conclude that no one is going to appreciate having one of there books made into a movie?  That's seems crazy to me.  Again no offense.

When I was a kid I saw The Hunt For Red October in the theater and loved it.  And yes, subsequently I have read a couple of Tom Clancy's books as a direct result of seeing that film.  Did Tom have every one of his books adapted into movies?  I actually just googled it and as I suspected the answer is no, not even close!   According to Google only a small fraction of his books have been made into movies.  Have all of his readers and fans been infuriated as a result?  Wouldn't you agree that having The Hunt For Red October made into a film probably dramatically improved Tom Clancy's financial situation far beyond what he was actually paid for the rights to that film?  I would be absolutely shocked to learn otherwise.

I'm a bit confused by why you are so certain about all of the assertions you make, especially about people being fed up about an unfinished series.  Doesn't it seem logical then that doing the first one would really indicate that there would be a great market for future films then?  Anyway.  As always I could be wrong.  lol

I can tell you for a certainty however, and this is my area of knowledge, that a decent quality film like the last one I produced, is certainly not a high risk purely speculative endeavor at all when made for $100k even.  Certainly it isn't very risky when made for a fraction of that.  You can take that to the bank and yes I have lot's of data to back that up.  lol

Anyway, thanks again for your input. 

FWIW, I will be putting my money where my mouth is very soon by producing my second film on my own dime.  (This time a Cristmas movie)   I'm here because I sure would like to start producing more than one movie a year with someone as a partner and I would think that my expertise in this area might be more warmly embraced by a few on here.  But again, who knows.  Maybe I am "barking up the wrong tree" as you say.  Only time will tell I guess.

Thanks again Timothy.

Feel free to shoot me an email and we discuss this more on the phone if you'd prefer.  I have both whatsapp and telegram BTW.

Troy

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Clearly there are thousands of authors who are making six figures every year, according to my research anyway.  As you said before many of them aren't on this forum but they are out there correct?  In fact there are some who approach 7 figures no?

99.9% are NOT on this forum. The word many doesn't even apply.As I said before, out of several thousand, less than a handful are here, and several of those are not active.

Quote
Thus how can you say "hold the bus, $1000 a month is only the realm of new releases"?  Are these authors releasing 10-100 new books a month?  Obviously not right? 

Per book. $1000 a month per book only happens when the book is released.

7 figure authors do that every 14 days. 6 figure authors do that once or twice a month. After the first week for each book, they earn steadily downwards as their rank falls.

Quote
Also how can you conclude that no one is going to appreciate having one of there books made into a movie?  That's seems crazy to me. 

No, I said no-one will appreciate only the first book being made into a movie.

Indie and Trad series are not the same.

Except for the last few books, Clancy wrote stand alones in a loose series using the same characters. But each book stood alone, and there was years between each book.

Indies writing series write serial stories, where the gap between stories can be as little as days apart. They are more like tv seasons than movie series.

So when you do isolated books out of a Trad series, no-one cares, because they do stand alone.

When you do book one out of an Indie serial series, you piss everyone off when there is no story 2.

Quote
I'm a bit confused by why you are so certain about all of the assertions you make, especially about people being fed up about an unfinished series.  Doesn't it seem logical then that doing the first one would really indicate that there would be a great market for future films then?

You obviously haven't looked me up. No-one pitching services at me ever does.

I've a pretty good grasp on Indie publishing.

And as a movie and tv series binge watcher, I'm very aware of how many movie and tv series just end abruptly for no apparently reason.

And as this gets worse year after year, the viewing public is getting more and more sick of only getting partial stories.

Quote
I can tell you for a certainty however, and this is my area of knowledge, that a decent quality film like the last one I produced, is certainly not a high risk purely speculative endeavor at all when made for $100k even.  Certainly it isn't very risky when made for a fraction of that.  You can take that to the bank and yes I have lot's of data to back that up.

Where's the data? Not on a phone call. I stopped doing phone calls after being scammed that way by Amway.

I have no doubts that a decently performing movie based on a book will flow back to the author.

But I seriously doubt that the investment would pay off in financial terms.

No author making less than 7 figures would be able to afford to invest that heavily in a speculative venture.
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Bill Hiatt

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Troy, as you can tell, you're probably pitching the wrong audience. What you have here are a collection of people who are probably making something on writing but not usually enough to generate the kind of initial investment you'd need. Many of us also don't write in genres that could be converted to movies effectively on a low budget. And all of us get scammed constantly, which explains our initial skepticism.

I have two thoughts. First, you might consider doing some research to see who the high performing indies are. It's not always easy to tell because some of them have an imprint name even if they're self published, but it's usually not hard to check whether the imprint is a real publisher or just an author's LLC.

Anyway, one thing that even successful indies can't usually get are movie opportunities. Well, Andy Weir might have been able to, but I think he had signed with a trad by the time he got the movie offer. Stephenie Meyer started her own production company and was talking about developing indie books, but I don't see any indication among the titles she's been involved with that they started as indie novels. Hugh Howey ended up with a movie deal. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone, even among the people making seven figures, so there's potentially a market for what you're selling among such people. You'd have to convince them you were really, so you'd probably be better off with more than one project sold, but I could see someone in that group taking the chance once you have a little more track record.

The other thought is mid-sized publishers. The Big Five would normally deal with the major studios, but a lot of smaller operations don't really have the same kind of connections. However, some of them are certainly bringing in enough money to be more likely to come up with the initial investment. Look for small press titles that perform well. It's probably worth a shot, anyway.   


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Movie Magic

Wow Bill, thank you!  Great advice.

When you guys refer to a "trad", what are you talking about?
 

Movie Magic

Hey Timothy.  Thanks again.  I'm going to do so more research.   Do you have any suggestions for another forum for me to look into?

I have data but I'm not able to post it online.  It's something I could email.


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Wow Bill, thank you!  Great advice.

When you guys refer to a "trad", what are you talking about?
A traditionally published author or traditional publisher, depending on the context.


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PJ Post

My 2 cents: most movies suck. Full stop. In fact, there is now a concept known as second screen entertainment, that is, the movie plays in the background while the viewer scrolls social media.

And good stories are not enough. We see this frequently with mainstream movies - they're pretty good and yet have no box office to speak of (actual viewers, not Hollywood accounting). The movie experience has changed - and yet, people still love moving pictures/videos/YouTube/etc.

Also, younger folks have significantly decreased attention spans, as well, but they still love stories/drama. This is the future.

___

I think there's an opportunity here, but not for more of the same (full-length Hollywood-style films). I think there is space in the attention market for concise serialized fiction - 20-30-minute episodes with a soap opera structure (similar to the Clone Wars series). Tons of story, characterization, cliffhangers, etc., packed into tight narrative bundles.

Now, how these shows can get filmed, produced, animated, AI, whatever - on a weekly schedule, and produced cheaply enough to make them a profitable IP, especially on an Indie budget is beyond me, not to mention finding distribution channels.

 
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Movie Magic

Hey PJ

Yeah that is a very popular observation, that young people in general are more interested in short form content.  But According to my research that might not be the full story.  Young people are not abandoning the movie theater experience nearly as fast as my generation for example.

I agree that the tradition movie theater experience is probably on it's last leg but I wouldn't  dismiss the feature film quite yet, or longer form content in general either.  I think a lot of the problems with the movie theater business are self inflicted.  The last movie I saw in a theater was Top Gun Maverick.  Great movie but holy cow, for my wife and I with a popcorn and a couple of drinks and tickets it was close to $80!  That's insane IMO.  lol

But who knows.  As always I could be wrong.
 
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Lorri Moulton

Maybe I missed this, but has anyone mentioned that a lot of 7-figure authors write erotica romance?  Are these going to be adult movies?  Or will all the adult scenes be cut?

If you go to the more popular author Facebook groups (Wide for the Win, 20booksto50k, etc.) you'll find people who will tell you they're 6 and 7 figure authors.  They do exist.  And some even write cozies, fantasy, Women's Fiction, etc.  But MANY of them write erotica, erotic romance, very spicy romance, open door romance...it all boils down to lots of sex on the page.

I'm not critiquing anyone's choice of what to write, but I do think anyone planning to make movies might want to check and see how steamy those movies might be.


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Movie Magic

Hey Lorri.

Um yeah, I was not aware of that.  lol

As far as I know all of the most lucrative AVOD sites for movies will not accept full nudity.  So any films based on erotica would need to be done and shot in suggestive ways without nudity.

I never did see 50 Shades of Grey.  Was there nudity in that?  I know it was a huge movie.

Now my wheels are turning though.  Is there a big market for non nudity films based on erotica?

Thanks for mentioning those facebook groups.  I'll look into that.  Any more come to mind?  :)

Thanks Lorri.

Troy
 

Post-Doctorate D

What are the possibilities of, while filming the movie, also filming a mini-story in four or five parts of maybe 2-3 minutes each, the first three or four ending in mini-cliffhangers, with the same characters and settings as the movie itself?  Then, those mini-stories could be released on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube Shorts, prior to the movie's release.  Could be used to generate additional ad revenue and build interest in the movie itself.
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Movie Magic

What are the possibilities of, while filming the movie, also filming a mini-story in four or five parts of maybe 2-3 minutes each, the first three or four ending in mini-cliffhangers, with the same characters and settings as the movie itself?  Then, those mini-stories could be released on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube Shorts, prior to the movie's release.  Could be used to generate additional ad revenue and build interest in the movie itself.

Yeah, very easy to do.  Very interesting idea.
 

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I never did see 50 Shades of Grey.  Was there nudity in that?  I know it was a huge movie.

Huge trilogy.

There was a LOT of nudity in it, but it was general nudity, no full frontal.

Westworld and some of the HBO tv series in recent times have been much more explicit.

Given the subject matter, the movies were very tastefully done.
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