AMS advice for the comically inept

[Simon Haynes]

I fired up three more product ads today. They only have 20 keywords each (40 if you count phrase/exact) and each ad targets one author and all their works by title.

I'm bidding higher than usual, because the people who read these authors are the audience for my series.

I'd love to see my ads on page one of the carousel on their listings, but we'll see.

[Simon Haynes]

Haha! I guess THAT worked:

But wait, because books 2-10 are on the first 3 pages of the carousel, but book ONE is on page 23!  That tells me Amazon thinks book 1 of the series is really on the nose, I guess.

It's nothing to do with the age of the book, because book 2, 3 and 4 were all published on the same day as 1 (2011), and they're showing on page 1 or 2 of the carousel.

[Simon Haynes]

I'm still digesting the fact that my series starter is impossible to advertise. All these months/years I've been trying to gain traction with this series, wondering why I'm so far down the carousel, and it never occurred to me to try a different book in the series. (I have run ads with all the books before, but I never went off to look at the ad carousels. Plus I used to bid tiny amounts.)

Anyway, I've just edited all the ads with Book 1 and put Book 10 in there instead. If people click that they can find book 1 easily enough.  I still have a couple of ads with creative text in, which can't be swapped, but I'll try this new experiment for a couple of days first. It could blow the budget really quickly if I suddenly appear on page 1 of all kinds of targets, instead of page 20+

[notthatamanda]

Is book one free? Or 99 cents? AMS definitely favors books that make them more money. I put one of my romance dogs at $7.99 and tried ads on it. First slot in the carousel instantly. Didn't sell any cause it was too expensive.

If I ever take one of the amazon sponsored webinars again I definitely want to ask them in the side bar what's in the relevancy formula and what percentage of each is important. I figure cover, reviews, blurb, price. I'm trying to compile a list in case the opportunity arises to ask them. I kind of want to sign up for a webinar again just to ask that.

So I have one first in trilogy free credited to AMS (15 cents for the click) but I "sold" 2 more and 2 of my first in other trilogy free.

[Simon Haynes]

Good theory, thanks. It's 2.99 whereas the others are 3.99 and 4.99 (they all show mixed in the first 2 pages of the carousel.)

It might be that Amazon knows I bought book 1 in 2011, but then I've bought some of the others too. Or maybe I've looked at book 1 so often it thinks I'm not interested - assuming the carousel is assembled per customer, and not one size fits all.

This is a brand new ad, by the way, so there's no history yet.

[Simon Haynes]

By the way, congrats on the sales.  (I meant to say that in my prev post, but I'm cooking and could hear sounds that meant I was charring instead.)

[notthatamanda]

Thanks.

If you want to PM me your keywords (gotta guard the ones that are working) I'll check and see what I see for you.

[Simon Haynes]

Oh, this one's no secret. I'm targeting EM Foner's books. (He and I email each other from time to time to discuss the state of the humorous SF market.)

Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LS7ST98

I just dropped my bids because I'd gone silly to test it was working. But now there's one of mine on page 2, and the rest are spread through the first nine pages.

Except book 1. I've gone through all 42 pages and can't see it at all. MIM1 is in there, funnily enough.

[Simon Haynes]

By the way, off topic but I keep seeing this book pop up:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N9FK5W2

Is it just me or is that, er, Arnie on the cover?

[idontknowyet]

By the way, off topic but I keep seeing this book pop up:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N9FK5W2

Is it just me or is that, er, Arnie on the cover?

sure looks like him to me... the author bio is the longest i've ever seen.

[Simon Haynes]

I didn't get to the bio. I did wonder whether this book was some kind of official release connected with one of the movies, but I've got other things to busy myself with ;-)

I didn't even realise this was the author behind that 1,000,000,000 book that shows up in every ad carousel. (There's the tenuous link to the topic).

[notthatamanda]

I looked up EM Foner, on his book 4 you have the number one spot for Hal book 1 on the number one page of the 1st  carousel. If you want to try to talk me through a screenshot I can try. No promises.

Number 1 on the second ad carousel is the book with Arnold on the cover. I don't know what to make of that.

[notthatamanda]

The brand ad I started yesterday has over 1000 impressions. I'm flabbergasted. What the heck did I do right this time?

[Eric Thomson]

The brand ad I started yesterday has over 1000 impressions. I'm flabbergasted. What the heck did I do right this time?

If you find out, let me know. I had only one impression for the first week. Then it shot up all the way to 130 since yesterday.

[notthatamanda]

I got a double yolk in an egg today. That's supposed to be good luck right?

Edit - actually I was wrong. It's over 1400 impressions. 

[Simon Haynes]

I got a double yolk in an egg today. That's supposed to be good luck right?

Edit - actually I was wrong. It's over 1400 impressions. 

That's fantastic! Here's hoping it really starts to pay off with clicks & more sales.


I got 4 for one of mine and I'm wrestling with AMS support about the three ads they won't approve.

[Simon Haynes]

I looked up EM Foner, on his book 4 you have the number one spot for Hal book 1 on the number one page of the 1st  carousel. If you want to try to talk me through a screenshot I can try. No promises.

Number 1 on the second ad carousel is the book with Arnold on the cover. I don't know what to make of that.

Okay, thanks for checking that out.  Now I'm wondering whether amazon is pushing Hal book 1 out of sight for me.  I'll check using a different browser.

[Simon Haynes]

Using a different browser I showed up #1, so that must be it.

[Jeff Tanyard]

By the way, off topic but I keep seeing this book pop up:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08N9FK5W2

Is it just me or is that, er, Arnie on the cover?

Definitely Ah-nold.

And I think the woman is Kristanna Loken.  That would make the cover a Terminator two-fer.

[notthatamanda]

Over 2000 impressions. 3 clicks, 15 cents each. No sales credited but two people downloaded the free first in trilogy yesterday. Which is the stunned emoji?

[Simon Haynes]

Sounds like you've hit paydirt there. I mean, where you generate impressions and clicks, surely sales will follow. (Ignore the credited sales - that part of the dash doesn't work. You'll probably find they randomly show up 10 days from now.)

[Simon Haynes]

I've had a Brand ad for my middle grade series spend its entire budget this morning. I advertised a set of 4 paperbacks in the ad, so I won't know whether the flurry of clicks actually did anything until the books (if any) are shipped. Fingers crossed it gets a few sales, though.

[notthatamanda]

Good luck.

[notthatamanda]

4000 impressions 8 clicks at 15 cents each. No sales. Rank on both my permafree books are stuck on 11/23, two days ago. Author central says "No data yesterday". What the freak is going on?

[Simon Haynes]

Yeah, US rank is stuck for me right across the board. Hasn't moved for hours, despite the sales coming in.

[Simon Haynes]

All of a sudden the AMS dash is showing a bunch of clicks on the Riddle ads, which explains the flurry of sales. (But no change in sales rank all day.)

[Simon Haynes]

Damned annoying about the sales rank, because this is my best day for the Mysteries in Metal series for over a year. (They're buying Silver as a preorder as well.)

[notthatamanda]

5000 impressions, 15 clicks, 1 sale registered (but not on the targeting list for that campaign). I used bklnk and am in top 250 for 2 categories. Also don't have enough categories listed, so I have to try to get that updated today.

As exciting as this is, if my readthrough doesn't kick in, this will just be wasting money, but I'll let it go for a while since I will be home to monitor it.

[Simon Haynes]

I checked my search terms report for the brand ads today and saw something like 'new christmas books for girls' which ended up displaying my middle grade science fiction which is primarily aimed at boys. (I mean, I'll sell to anyone, but a target market is a target market.)  Plus Santa doesn't show in my stuff, even as a robot.

[notthatamanda]

You going to add christmas (and xmas) as negative keywords or just see what happens?

Edit - since it's for kids maybe they opened it up to what the customer has purchased before, for gift giving, as opposed to Christmas being the theme of the book. Just guessing.

[Simon Haynes]

I've lowered my bids but I won't add negative keywords yet.

Middle-grade books are a bit different because they're always bought for someone else, and if someone's shopping for xmas presents they might see my books and think they'd be good presents for another kid they also have to buy for.

[Simon Haynes]

I've had a Brand ad for my middle grade series spend its entire budget this morning. I advertised a set of 4 paperbacks in the ad, so I won't know whether the flurry of clicks actually did anything until the books (if any) are shipped. Fingers crossed it gets a few sales, though.

Just got the figures and 6 paperbacks sold from this ad on that day.

I think Christmas is the only time of year MG paperbacks are really worth advertising.

[notthatamanda]

Cool. The holiday shopping season has just begun so maybe you will sell many more. Amazon was doing a webinar just on Holiday Advertising.

[LilyBLily]

Cool. The holiday shopping season has just begun so maybe you will sell many more. Amazon was doing a webinar just on Holiday Advertising.

I started listening to it but their idea of pre-planning was way later in the season than any of us plan. I skipped the rest of it as obvious.

Although Amazon has said it would send replays, I haven't received any so maybe we're supposed to actively find the replays. Too busy to look.

[Simon Haynes]

Another 6 paperbacks in that series today. Maybe I've finally found out how to sell my middle-grade stuff?  It's been one of my major disappointments over the years, knowing I have a series of 4 books I would have killed to read as a 10-year-old, and yet not being able to get them into the hands of readers.

(It was only meant to be a series of three books, all of them written in 2012, but in 2018 my nephews begged and begged and begged and begged x 100 for another one. I kept putting them off, knowing it made zero financial sense, then eventually wrote and illustrated the fourth book just for them.)

[LilyBLily]

Another 6 paperbacks in that series today. Maybe I've finally found out how to sell my middle-grade stuff?  It's been one of my major disappointments over the years, knowing I have a series of 4 books I would have killed to read as a 10-year-old, and yet not being able to get them into the hands of readers.

(It was only meant to be a series of three books, all of them written in 2012, but in 2018 my nephews begged and begged and begged and begged x 100 for another one. I kept putting them off, knowing it made zero financial sense, then eventually wrote and illustrated the fourth book just for them.)

That's the best reason to write a book. 

[Hopscotch]

Just to close out one AMS issue:

AMS today suspended one of my Bryan ads b/c the ad text violates current policy.  Puzzling b/c this is an autotargeted Standard ad w/o any ad text.

After repeated msgs to AMS HQ and repeated auto/boilerplate replies, someone in AMS actually looked at my textless ad, determined it could not be policy-offensive, and un-suspended.  Impressions and clicks now flowing nicely.  Things worked as they should but it required pushing.

[Hopscotch]

Leaped out of bed this AM to review my end-of-month AMS stats and see that I had a great Bryan month - consistent level of daily sales/reads higher than anything I’d managed pre-Bryan (tho’ I remain not even a prawn but a peanut).  But it cost me 27% more in AMS fees than I made in profit, so I botched that part of the program.  Figure that out and I’ll be ready to rocket up to prawn status.

[Simon Haynes]

Yeah, it's tough finding the balance between 'my ads aren't showing' and 'I sold lots... oh and paid out even more.' I have to admit, my strategy of getting ads to run (high bids, but a lower budget so they didn't go crazy), and then paring them back a bit, does seem to be working.

One thing that helped enormously was adding the ability to import AMS reports into SalesScanner (my kind of homebrew Bookreport thing.) 

I can see the breakdown of ad spend by title, across 4 markets, either daily, for this week or for the last 30 days, and whether I'm over-spending on one particular series. (Wouldn't be useful if you're running ads for 1 or 2 books, but I run them on 8 titles/series.)

[LilyBLily]

Amazon keeps emailing me wanting me to raise my budget on the UK site for my one nonfiction title. If I did that, I'd wipe out my profit on that title. My book is evergreen. So it runs out of budget today, big deal.

Amazon sent around another pitch for more of its ad seminars. I find it amazing that Amazon can do this with a straight face. Their advice stinks and their dashboard stinks. One of the most confounding aspects of self-publishing is the bizarreness of everybody's ad structures. Opaque, labyrinthine, Byzantine, and for BookBub I have to submit and be chosen to throw away my money.   

[Simon Haynes]

Yeah, Facebook is the one I dread the most. Talk about taking something easy and making it complicated - and I've avoided the platform entirely since people kept reporting their accounts were getting suspended for linking to amazon pages.

Bookbub is easy to set up, but I don't think I get the results to justify the bids.  The other day I got 90 clicks on something and I doubt 1 in 10 converted... on a 99c box set.

I'm having success with AMS, and this will be my highest month (turnover) for a year. But deduct the ad costs and it's not quite as rosy.

Thing is, my sales and pagereads have been dying a slow death for 12 months, probably because I haven't published anything that entire time, or run ads or promos. So, without the promos, the ads and the new release, I imagine the decline would have continued non-stop. Lesson learned!

[notthatamanda]

I have one ad that ran out of budget yesterday. It is my most profitable ad. I raised the budget to 6 from 5 and looked at the targeting. One target is getting all the sales, and most of the clicks, I left that at 30 cents. Another target had a handful of clicks, no sales, I reduced it to 20 cents. Other two targets I left at 30, no clicks.

I managed to be slightly profitable on my WWII books with a Bookbub ad with B&N, but since B&N is such a mess, I don't want to bother now. When I release book 2 I might try again.

Learning that you can't compete against yourself was the most helpful tidbit of info from Amazon's webinars.

[idontknowyet]

i can now be considered comically inept.

You cant imagine how bad i am at these but here's my go.

Since my book is on pre order and wont be out until late jan, (Its all ready to go edited and im thinking of using kindle create to format) I heard its incredibly hard to sell preorders as an unknown it can take like 100 clicks.

Paying 35cents for a click doesnt make any sense at all.

I thought i'd try all sorts of seldom used there for cheaper keywords. Good idea? Bad idea?

[LilyBLily]

An Amazon ad is practically irresistible to try. Use the best and most relevant keywords (other than "romance" or "Nora Roberts"), because you want your ad to be where the most people go, not the fewest. Relevance is much more important than keyword price. Bid low and keep the budget low. Your ad will appear way back in the carousel (if it even exists these days), but anyone who bothers to look that far back may be eager to buy. Also, use negative keyword targeting to help the relevance. Will it work? No way of knowing until you try. What drives us all crazy is regulating the bids versus the budget versus the keywords.

Or you could discount the book at launch and buy a newsletter ad to promote it. You'd get some action instead of that horrid big glacial silence that can happen. Just don't expect to make a profit. Check out Nick Erik's promo site roundup and see if any of them would work for your budget: https://nicholaserik.com/promo-sites/

[Simon Haynes]

What I do is include the preorder title in with my ads for the rest of the series. So, if it's book 4 in a series, I'll set up an ad with books 1-3 + the preorder, then let AMS work out who to show it to.

[notthatamanda]

I don't know of an easy way to determine if a keyword is heavily used or rarely used. Like Lily I suggest just keeping your bids and budgets low.

Bryan Cohen said he would offer the free webinars in January. He takes you through all the ins and outs of ad setup and his strategy is designed to run ads profitably. If I hear the details on that I'll let you know.

Edit - if you are doing KU use your free or 99 cents days right before book 2 is going to launch. I think you have to be in KU for 30 days before you use them anyway, but I can't remember exactly.

[idontknowyet]

I don't know of an easy way to determine if a keyword is heavily used or rarely used. Like Lily I suggest just keeping your bids and budgets low.

Bryan Cohen said he would offer the free webinars in January. He takes you through all the ins and outs of ad setup and his strategy is designed to run ads profitably. If I hear the details on that I'll let you know.

Edit - if you are doing KU use your free or 99 cents days right before book 2 is going to launch. I think you have to be in KU for 30 days before you use them anyway, but I can't remember exactly.

I purchased publisher rocket. It has all sorts of information about keyword.

What I do is include the preorder title in with my ads for the rest of the series. So, if it's book 4 in a series, I'll set up an ad with books 1-3 + the preorder, then let AMS work out who to show it to.

I dont have any other books up for pre order. They said that just depresses rank on release day. I was trying to use my reader magnet to drive some pre orders as well as building a newsletter.

[notthatamanda]

I thought I moved all the end dates out but somehow I missed some and they shut off a couple of days ago, including a couple of good ones. Still finding news ways to be inept at this. 

Edit - and today I learned if an auto ad ends you can't unend it.

Edit again - bleeping reports aren't working. Will try again later.

[notthatamanda]

I just went through and reduced the bids on my highest spending ads. With sales so few and far between the balance was shifting from profitable to breaking even. The brand ad I got phenomenal impressions yielded 3 downloads of the free first book and zero follow ups. :( But I know I missed the target with the tropes for that. I don't know what to do with the romance books, they straddle the line between romance and women's fiction and either one is going to make a certain percentage, perhaps the majority, of readers unhappy. It's not really not an issue since I didn't make enough this year to justify all the new covers I will need.

I really hope people are just frantically trying to get all their shopping done right now and things pick way up in January, if not before.

[Hopscotch]

Why is AMS re-moderating all my Bryan ads moderated and approved a month ago?  (So far, no changes in approvals.)  Anyone else w/same experience?