Author Topic: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?  (Read 3206 times)

YouMeWe

Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« on: September 23, 2018, 09:05:00 PM »
I've got all the gear but haven't got to grips with dictation yet. Dabbled and quit. Dabbled and quit. Dabbled and ...

It's me, not the software. I'm preventing me progressing. I want to change that. I'm ready!

Looking for tips, ideas, butt-kicking buddies, Dragon slayers and Dragon slaying apprentices, like moi. :dance: (Yeah, soz. I just wanted a dancing banana.)
Pleez scoose n e errers, eyes lerrnin diktashun.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 10:43:03 PM »
I bought Dragon many years ago - NS 8, from the look of it.  I could never get to grips with it for two reasons.

One, the primary character in my novels is called Hal. No matter how much I trained the damn software, it would always, always interpret this as 'HOW'.

Two ... dialogue. Specifically, punctuation. I write dialogue-heavy novels, and it takes longer to say 'open double quotes yes comma close double quotes said how no how no HOW you cloth-eared piece of junk full stop' than to type "Yes," said Hal.

I also tried Microsoft's built-in dictation in Windows 7.  It wasn't a how of a lot better.



 

WasAnn

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 10:47:54 PM »
I'm in the same boat as you two. I bought a recent version, tried to use it, and wound up losing the flow of the words with all the stuff added in for dialogue and such. I just don't work that way, I suppose. I'm in awe of people who can pump out a whole book like that in mere days, but I just can't do it.

I type really fast, and it's just enough to keep up with my thoughts, allowing for the natural rearranging of those thoughts into words to slow them down for my fingers to do it.

I wish I could use the dragon...but, so far, I can't. Would LOVE to hear how others get around the flow issues.


Science Fiction is my game.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 10:54:48 PM »
I'm in the same boat as you two. I bought a recent version, tried to use it, and wound up losing the flow of the words with all the stuff added in for dialogue and such. I just don't work that way, I suppose. I'm in awe of people who can pump out a whole book like that in mere days, but I just can't do it.

I type really fast, and it's just enough to keep up with my thoughts, allowing for the natural rearranging of those thoughts into words to slow them down for my fingers to do it.

I wish I could use the dragon...but, so far, I can't. Would LOVE to hear how others get around the flow issues.

Yes, I often wish I could type twice as fast, but then I realise my fingers would be hovering over the keys waiting for my brain to catch up. Right now I have plenty of time to rearrange words and hit on better ways to say things.

There is another option, which is to use a digital recorder and pay someone to transcribe it. Even so, dialogue would be an issue I think.
 
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YouMeWe

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 11:40:07 PM »
Snappity, snap, snap!

I write 'dialogue heavy' and find the punctuation really hard going. I'm sure it's a practice, practice, practice thing that will resolve itself in time. Some people leave the punctuation out and apply during edits ... but that sounds like hell on earth to me. Don't fancy that at all.

I'm using Dragon 13 Premium (soon to become defunct, by all accounts), and have an Olympus recorder for transcription. Plug the recorder straight into Dragon and  :smilie_zauber: all there.  I've found it super accurate 'out of the box' but my brain seems to be struggling to accept it - if that makes sense.

This time I'm determined to conquer it. I shall report back if when I have a breakthrough!




Pleez scoose n e errers, eyes lerrnin diktashun.
 

WasAnn

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 11:41:11 PM »
I'm in the same boat as you two. I bought a recent version, tried to use it, and wound up losing the flow of the words with all the stuff added in for dialogue and such. I just don't work that way, I suppose. I'm in awe of people who can pump out a whole book like that in mere days, but I just can't do it.

I type really fast, and it's just enough to keep up with my thoughts, allowing for the natural rearranging of those thoughts into words to slow them down for my fingers to do it.

I wish I could use the dragon...but, so far, I can't. Would LOVE to hear how others get around the flow issues.

Yes, I often wish I could type twice as fast, but then I realise my fingers would be hovering over the keys waiting for my brain to catch up. Right now I have plenty of time to rearrange words and hit on better ways to say things.

There is another option, which is to use a digital recorder and pay someone to transcribe it. Even so, dialogue would be an issue I think.

I've thought about that. How many times have I hit on exactly the right tone and way to convey something, only to not remember it exactly the same way when I return to a keyboard? OMG...I don't even know how many times.


Science Fiction is my game.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 11:47:52 PM »

I write 'dialogue heavy' and find the punctuation really hard going. I'm sure it's a practice, practice, practice thing that will resolve itself in time. Some people leave the punctuation out and apply during edits ... but that sounds like hell on earth to me. Don't fancy that at all.



I tried that, but it was far more effort than just writing clean, finished copy in the first place. If there one thing worse than hunting down punctuation mistakes, it's having to fix a whole novel's worth of things you left out on purpose.
 

YouMeWe

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 11:53:54 PM »

There is another option, which is to use a digital recorder and pay someone to transcribe it. Even so, dialogue would be an issue I think.
[/quote]

I've thought about that. How many times have I hit on exactly the right tone and way to convey something, only to not remember it exactly the same way when I return to a keyboard? OMG...I don't even know how many times.
[/quote]

Oh Lordy, I feel that pain. The recorder is great for capturing those notes of perfect tone, but I can't walk in the woods dictating chapter after chapter like some can. The transcription function of Dragon is a dream. I can see me using it mainly for plotting/outlining.

I'm a slow and painful typist, but a fast talker! I think getting to grips with Dragon means re-training my brain.
Pleez scoose n e errers, eyes lerrnin diktashun.
 

YouMeWe

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 11:58:20 PM »

I write 'dialogue heavy' and find the punctuation really hard going. I'm sure it's a practice, practice, practice thing that will resolve itself in time. Some people leave the punctuation out and apply during edits ... but that sounds like hell on earth to me. Don't fancy that at all.



I tried that, but it was far more effort than just writing clean, finished copy in the first place. If there one thing worse than hunting down punctuation mistakes, it's having to fix a whole novel's worth of things you left out on purpose.

That is one bad habit I won't be getting into! It sounds like torture. :n2Str17:
Pleez scoose n e errers, eyes lerrnin diktashun.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 12:14:51 AM »
I was thinking of taking a dictation device along when I go for bike rides, but speaking some of my dialogue aloud while I'm peddling around the suburbs might just be enough to get me thrown into the nearest nut house.

 

R. C.

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Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 12:38:32 AM »
Story time...


Many years ago, in the land of Windows 3.1, I was asked to help integrate Dragon into MS Word for a very specific purpose.   A psychologist for whom I set up billing and records software recognized speech to type could help children with learning disabilities.   Specifically, children with dyslexia and disgraphia.   It was terrific.  Withing a few months I saw examples of children who could not write, and some who could not read, start to approach their grade level course work.


It was very satisfying work.


I, however, could never master the tool.  As much and I tried, with my voice and speech patterns, I could not get it to recognize what I was saying with a high degree of accuracy.  Over the years, I have have gone back and experimented with voice tools.  But, alas, there is something about the tone and tenor of my speech that turns the results into incomprehensible gibberish.   


I am not knocking gibberish, I like a good laugh too.


For me, typing then editing, and re editing, and editing some more, then telling MS Word to stop, that word is SUPPOSED TO BE SPELLED THAT WAY!


Oh sorry... Yes Dragon.  A very good tool for some applications.   For me and prose... not so much.


Cheers,
Ruairí
 
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RappaDizzy

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 01:29:28 AM »
I've used Dragon Naturally Speaking from the very first edition. I still have the Parrot microphone it came with somewhere around here. I began using it because of the reports I had to do in business. I had arthritis in my left arm and both hands that made typing and eventually keyboarding difficult and I thought I'd give it a try. I'm glad I did because it allowed me to keep writing  - now if I have to go and sign any type of paper where they say sign here, here, here and here - I can do here and here before my fingers cramp up. :icon_lol: Learning to use Dragon is not any more difficult than learning how to type. Most people forget the difficulties they had when first learning to type. And that goes for just about anything else you've done - sports, a musical instrument etc. Most of us forget it because we did it when we were kids and it was just the learning process.

That being said - the willingness to persevere - is only part of it. Because how you work can also play into it. I was great at doing the reports and verbal presentations for work because I could do it in bullet points and extrapolate. But when it came to trying to write fiction, I was a total failure. I couldn't do it. I had a heart attack in March 2012 and was lying in bed with nothing to do when I decided to try again. I had bought a Blackberry Playbook in December and figured I would just hunt and peck out a book. Still had difficulty trying to get the plot down and couldn't figure out why. So I started searching the Internet for ideas on how to do it and came across people like Konrath (I could really publish it by myself if I could do it - incentive to finish!) and Kristine Katherine Rush and.... Dean Wesley Smith. He talked about a strange a method called writing into the dark. Screw it, I'll try it. Pow! My imagination started having fun and when I was able to get back to my computer and started using Dragon, writing was a lot of fun. I wasn't an outliner when it came to fiction. I finished that book and had to rearrange things because I didn't understand things like action-reaction sequences and all of the other craft stuff but I had done it.

I mention that because you may not be someone who can "talk" out your book. I'm not an outliner, I have to write into the dark. How many times over at Kboards did you see people arguing one method over the other? I won't do the same thing here with Dragon or dictation in general. It has its good points and its bad points. I have allergies which plug me up from time to time and I have to take more time because Dragon can't figure out what I'm saying. But the more you work with it the better you get at using it. When you have a lot of stories you can let Dragon run through them and it learns how you write. It definitely improves the accuracy. Most people don't take time to go through the 'training' aspect when you first get it. They don't want to take an hour here and there to train their Dragon - I understand for many people that hour might be the only one they get (insert "you reap what you sow" here). I still do it from time to time, helping Dragon to learn/improve on how I pronounce things. It still confuses those homophones every so often but people who type also have typos. I use the method that Dean Wesley Smith talks about - I cycle through my work every one or two hundred words - at times when the story is simply moving along I'll wait until a complete chapter is done - for me between 1-2,000 words. I write clean first copy. If I have to change something or add something into what I've already written, I cycle through the chapter to make sure I haven't added a typo or homophone or missed a word. I run it through Grammarly as well to pick up what I miss. It works but that's me. That's how I work.

Sorry for the long ass reply but I did use Dragon to "write" this - and yes, Dragon put in "right" that I had to tell it to correct.  grint

Edited to add a few comments

1. Your desire/need
How many people say they want to write a book? You've proven your willingness to do what 99% of those people couldn't do - persevere and actually write a book. You need the same kind of willingness or perseverance with Dragon. In my case I had a "need" that made me work with it.

2. The microphone you use has a lot to do with it. You might have to experiment - provided you can afford the expense of going through two or three if you don't hit it on the first try. Nuance has recommendations for microphones, recorders, etc.

http://support.nuance.com/compatibility/default.asp

3. Pay attention to the system requirements for the version you're considering or using. More computing power, RAM, etc. will make a difference.

4. Go through the training.

5. Dragon is better than the other speech recognition programs (my opinion). I tried others - even after years of using Dragon to see if would make a difference - and it didn't work. Now that was me and you may be different. But there is usually a reason why one piece of software becomes a better seller than the others. In this case Nuance has done a great job with speech recognition software.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 02:55:05 AM by Eugene Lloyd MacRae »
 
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YouMeWe

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2018, 10:08:12 PM »
Oh Lordy, Lordy, Lordy …

This morning I thanked the lady in the shop by saying: “Open quotes thanks full stop close quotes.”

Ranks right up there on the cringe-o-meter alongside the time I said “I love you” to a car insurance salesman before hanging up the phone. 

Something must be working, right? Right?
Pleez scoose n e errers, eyes lerrnin diktashun.
 

Arches

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 03:46:24 AM »
There's a long thread on Kboards called something like "Training your Dragon" that has lots of good tips on using the program.

For me, it's been the most frustrating software I've ever used, but I keep dictating because it postpones the day when I won't be able to type by hand anymore and because the program lets me get into a zone where I'm thinking only about the story, not writing. I don't look at the screen much, and I certainly don't try and fix the many mistakes Dragon makes in the first draft. And believe it or not, you can learn to speak including pronunciation without thinking about it too much.

In a lot of ways, it's like KDP, which can be both incredibly frustrating and ultimately rewarding.
 
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Morgan Cole

Re: Any Dragon Slayers propping up the bar?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 04:01:58 AM »
I have now written two books (first drafts really) with Dragon. One 60k words, one 128k words.

I use transcription, so I speak into my tiny headset mic and a Sony PX-370 handheld recorder, and then use Dragon to transcribe.

The software itself is utter junk, but it's the best voice recognition engine, apparently. When I get some free time I'm going to give the Google cloud stuff a try because I hate Dragon so much. If it's close I'm going to delete Dragon and never look back.