Author Topic: Where'd everybody go?  (Read 18794 times)

Lynn

Where'd everybody go?
« on: December 07, 2019, 05:27:04 AM »
I'm just going to come out and ask, was there a big exodus sometime around October?

I was posting, had a birthday and didn't post for a few days because I was busy, came back and found that a lot of posters I was used to seeing post weren't posting anymore.

??

Now the place is barely limping along.

:(

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but I figured why not. I'd rather not see the forum die off just when I finally start posting again myself! :D
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JRTomlin

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2019, 05:31:46 AM »
I think it's just a busy time of the year and the forum is small enough for that to be noticeable. But I could be wrong. I kind of come and go. Sometimes I post quite a bit but I have also gone a couple of months without posting. it depends on what else I'm involved with and how busy I am. My Christmas shopping is done and I am just getting into writing another novel, so I'm faffing about here.
 
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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2019, 05:45:21 AM »
I think it's just a busy time of the year


This is my guess, too.  Halloween, then Thanksgiving, then Christmas shopping, and lots of people traveling everywhere.  It gets hectic.
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idontknowyet

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2019, 06:36:28 AM »
I'm still here.

It feels like it is getting slower and slower here each month.  Which makes me sad since we have such a nice bunch of people here.
 
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Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2019, 06:40:30 AM »
I'm not sure it's because of the time of year. People, no matter how busy, tend to get chatty around the holidays. So I don't know what's going on here, but I know the "other place" has been lobotomized (interesting threads get locked by Becca--sorry Becca, it's true). It's mostly newbies now who've discovered the polling option.


Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 
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alhawke

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2019, 06:40:41 AM »
Holidays.
Sometimes we stop procastinating and write.  grint
I'm still enjoying the threads.
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2019, 06:41:15 AM »
It's hard to measure. The number of members doesn't seem to be declining. I see people disappear for a while and then reappear.

I have noticed that the variety of new posts is declining somewhat.

On the other hand, it is important to keep in mind that some people only post  when they have questions. Others only post to report milestones. I would say a fairly high percentage of the members don't visit the forum every day. That doesn't necessarily mean they're gone. And it is a busy time of year.


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JRTomlin

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2019, 06:42:49 AM »
I'm still here.

It feels like it is getting slower and slower here each month.  Which makes me sad since we have such a nice bunch of people here.
And there really is nowhere else to post. I wouldn't touch that other place with something much taller than a ten-foot Pole and any Pole I know has better taste anyway. (Sorry. It's the holidays. Put that down to liquor)
 
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Bill Hiatt

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2019, 06:46:05 AM »
I'm not sure it's because of the time of year. People, no matter how busy, tend to get chatty around the holidays. So I don't know what's going on here, but I know the "other place" has been lobotomized (interesting threads get locked by Becca--sorry Becca, it's true). It's mostly newbies now who've discovered the polling option.
I don't visit the other place very often anymore. Occasionally, I glance at the threads on the first page. I know some of the experienced posters still add content to threads, but very few of them seem to start threads. Most of the new creations are from people whose names I don't recognize.

That said, the community still has enough life in it to survive the new management, at least up to this point. When the acquisition was first made public, I found two boards owned by the same people. One seemed very low traffic, and the most recent post was a tirade over the new ownership letting the place die. On another, the forums had disappeared completely, and only ads remained.

If this forum had a higher profile, I think it's likely we'd get more new blood. How to do that remains a mystery to me...


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LilyBLily

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2019, 08:19:09 AM »
I share similar concerns, but I see this forum as mostly about indie marketing in all its many hues. I manage to waste enough time as it is without talking about movies or games or whatever.   

It's also about where we get our news and where we post our questions. For instance, the Christine Feehan debacle has been all over Twitter, which is a very influential site in that it doubtless showed her what a huge mistake she'd made, but the important discussion has been behind closed doors at the RWA, and now posted on the RWA's private PAN (published author network) loop, where it was announced today that the RWA had negotiated with her to withdraw (at least a couple of) her asinine trademark applications. People here can't do that. This forum is not directly linked to official power brokers.

On the good side, we aren't getting the vast number of beginner questions from foreign nationals seeking to cash in or from native English speakers who really ought to google a few things before they ask hugely general questions that basically amount to "Tell me everything you have learned in X years doing this so I can make a fortune in the next 30 days." When I was deleting my thousands of posts from KBoards, I saw that I'd wasted an incredible amount of time telling newbies really obvious stuff that they'd been too lazy to google. I do visit that site often, but never comment anymore, and there is a lot of wrongheaded stuff there--and how is that my business? People with far more patience than I have are still offering helpful information, which is very kind of them, but there has also been quite a bit of vicious back and forth. (Where were you, Becca?)

I got a new computer this week and haven't transferred any of my logins, so when I called up this forum by googling it, I found the main descriptive under the name is something about Writing 101. Which I think most of us here are way beyond. It may be, as was suggested earlier, that the site descriptions for SEO are not quite accurate and so there isn't the organic growth one might expect.

I try to post any valuable new stuff I encounter elsewhere. I've been very busy the last few months, too. 
 
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Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2019, 09:05:25 AM »
...something about Writing 101. Which I think most of us here are way beyond.

That's probably true. I kinda wish this forum was for vetted "professional indie publishers" and "the other one" for newbies. The indie community doesn't need two forums covering all the bases but could use one for serious, committed, aspiring-to-make-a-living-at-it, seasoned, full-timers. I would even pay for that (well, five bucks a month, and NOT via Paypal).
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 

ashleycapes

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2019, 10:52:40 AM »
Perhaps the holidays has everyone angry and exhausted - that's partly my excuse :D

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Maggie Ann

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2019, 10:53:21 AM »
Bad tooth, pain off and on until Thanksgiving Eve when it got really bad, went to Urgent Care who refused to give me antibiotics, dentist, tooth pulled, swelling, fever, etc, etc, etc.

Mostly, I've been lying in bed and moaning.

           
 
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elleoco

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2019, 12:08:56 PM »
I do still visit The Other Place. There are a couple of helpful threads, like the Vellum one, that have no equivalent here, and the Let's Talk Kindle forum is what keeps me current on the latest in Kindles and updates for them.

As to posting here, I have to see something that catches my interest, and marketing threads rarely do it since in spite of regular vows to do it, so far I'm still resisting. I haven't published in two years and my income is still holding at a decent level for needed supplemental retirement income. When I finally stop futzing around and finish my WIP, I'll release it the same as always - stick it on Amazon and email my mailing list.

Craft threads like the recently active one on whether editing is helpful are usually what pique my interest.
 
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2019, 12:14:41 PM »
We did have a dummy spit here back Octoberish, so I suspect we lost a few people over that. The comment was made a lot of the bigger authors don't come here because they don't get the protections they do at KB.

There are also the ongoing calls to reduce the place back to KB style, which I suspect has made a few people give up waiting for.

But these sort of things happen periodically, and people come and go.

Personally, the only time I go to KB these days is when the only link available on the current huha goes there. Otherwise, I never do.
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Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2019, 12:28:27 PM »
I haven't published in two years and my income is still holding at a decent level for needed supplemental retirement income.

I enjoy hearing stuff like this--making a decent amount and NOT releasing a book a month (or even yearly). I'm testing the waters now on holding new releases to see what I can make with a static bookshelf. So far I'm very pleased.
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 

alhawke

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2019, 01:23:51 PM »
I'm still here.

It feels like it is getting slower and slower here each month.  Which makes me sad since we have such a nice bunch of people here.


There's a different vibe here. You guys seem like a tighter bunch. I'm new, so I don't know if things have slowed much on writersanctum. But there's been a lot of interesting posts that draw me over to you.

I do notice a lot of newbie writers at "the other place" (not that I'm all that seasoned myself). I feel like I owe the other place for a lot of valuable publishing and promotion info that helped launch my writing career.

Honestly, it might be the holidays, but I've seen posts unanswered and things slowing down elsewhere.

And, Maggie Ann--how awful. I hope you feel better soon.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 01:28:03 PM by alhawke »
 

Hopscotch

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2019, 02:06:25 PM »
I'm here because I don't want to be there. And because I like this crowd better.  I don't go there, not even for the occasional peek, and never will.  As for our crowd size, WS is still young and will grow as more people see its value.
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Anarchist

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2019, 03:15:11 PM »
Speaking only for myself...

I no longer post much because most of the threads are boring.

The controversial threads (trademarking general words, botting, etc.) seem to be little more than opportunities for people to express their outrage.

The marketing threads are 101.

I'll sometimes tune in if I notice a post by Amanda, Crystal, DVD, and a few others. But otherwise, I'm fine with not participating.

I don't post at KB anymore. But that's because I'm on post moderation. :)
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Jeff Tanyard

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2019, 03:27:24 PM »
Also, the "gold rush" days are over.  There's not a flood of people trying to get rich quick in indie publishing like there was years ago.  The traffic at kboards peaked in 2011 and has been in decline ever since.





I don't post at KB anymore. But that's because I'm on post moderation. :)


Don't leave us hanging.  Tell us the story.   :icon_mrgreen:
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Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2019, 04:08:12 PM »
There's not a flood of people trying to get rich quick in indie publishing like there was years ago.

That's the best news I've heard in a while.
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 
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Vidya

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2019, 04:34:28 PM »
I assume the owners of The Other Place are putting money into advertising their forum, which is why we keep seeing new names there.

WS has all the members who fled KB, but very little new blood since we aren’t advertising the way they are.

Not saying we should; just saying it’s understandable we won't get a lot of new members. Even at KB, many old members would periodically stop posting but it kept busy and active since they got a constant churn of new members.
 

Cobbah

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2019, 10:47:55 PM »
I check this place daily for posts or threads of interest. I rarely see anything here I can't also see on KB or elsewhere. Most of that is repetitive regurgitated subject matter. You can't post anything contentious because the otherwise silent opinions surface and denounce you 'en mass' and the threads here are so convoluted in their little echo chambers that its difficult to navigate. There again I also echo elleoco in that I don't write much these days, never did if the truth be told. I still manage to earn out on all my books.

Someone mentioned there needs to be more contention to get people to login and respond or participate. Then you get comments like "We did have a dummy spit here back Octoberish, so I suspect we lost a few people over that," and you can see that there's a tendency not to 'rock the boat, or post anything that might result in disagreement. I liken the whole thing to a perpetual funeral procession, a silent dirge with the occasional rending of garments and wailing banshees.

I think most of us are just bored with same old, same old. I wish I could join Hugh aboard his yacht. He's not missing anything is he.
 

Simon Haynes

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2019, 11:23:07 PM »
I check here daily.

But I'm also writing a hell of a lot of fiction and renovating a house.

I haven't really done much new regarding pricing & promos & ads so nothing to report there. (I *am* reducing the price of 9/10ths of my main series to 99c for 7 days next week. I'm working like crazy to finish a was-25k-now-40k newletter magnet promo novella for inclusion in said books.)




 

Maggie Ann

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2019, 11:37:10 PM »
I joined KB a few months after they started and back then it was all about the Kindle. It was new and exciting and the greatest thing was Kindle Watch. That's when someone would order their first Kindle and we'd all stand by, waiting with the recipient for the UPS truck or the mailman to appear down the street.

A few of us published during that time but soon other authors found KB as a place where Kindle readers gathered and the floodgates opened. It was no longer a Kindle forum but an authors' forum. Lots of changes since then.

What I'm saying is that we had the Kindle as the launch point. Leslie was trolling the Amazon boards inviting people in, and since the Kindle was so new, everyone wanted to discuss it.

Our launch point was the desire to leave KB behind. We've done that and unless we find another draw, we'll stagnate. I see other KB people have come on board and that's good. I think this is going to be a slow growth forum, but it will grow.

I stay because I need the encouragement and interaction with other authors and there's always someone to keep us in the loop with Amazon shenanigans and other publishing news.

As for the other place, I never minded helping out the newbies, but too many of them then either ignored the good advice they were given or out and out said the advice was useless.

           
 
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VanessaC

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2019, 12:01:02 AM »
Speaking personally, November - early December are always really busy months at my day job, and I also have the feeling at this time of year of getting to the end of a long year and looking forward to some downtime over the festive season. Although I check here daily, I don't post much right now because my brain is often fried and I can't think of anything useful to add. Also, I usually check on my phone / tablet and hate using the touch keypads. "Free" time at my desk with a proper keyboard has been rare!

More widely, I also suspect that there are more places for us writers to hang out now than there used to be, even a few years ago. I'm now also in the Self Publishing Formula Facebook group and it's  pretty active, with a lot of variance from total newbie to very experienced authors. Posters there also often refer to other groups they're members of.

I do like this forum, but like others my participation will wax and wane depending on what else is going on in life.


     



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notthatamanda

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2019, 12:15:55 AM »
I check here daily.

But I'm also writing a hell of a lot of fiction and renovating a house.

I haven't really done much new regarding pricing & promos & ads so nothing to report there. (I *am* reducing the price of 9/10ths of my main series to 99c for 7 days next week. I'm working like crazy to finish a was-25k-now-40k newletter magnet promo novella for inclusion in said books.)
And thinking about Silver Enigma?
 
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123mlh

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2019, 12:21:05 AM »
I found KB because people were talking about it and linking to it as a source of good information at the time. (2013 or so) And I then turned around and recommended it for the same reasons. There was a time when if someone said they were interested in self-publishing that was the place I sent them. I don't anymore.

But I wouldn't send people here either. Reasons I wouldn't send people here are threads like the one a little while back about how no one should expect to earn a living from writing where a large number of the regular posters on here agreed. And there are a few very frequent, very vocal participants here who I would not expose newbies to because they wouldn't have the ability to see through the bullsh*t. And honestly, the animosity towards the other place just needs to go if you want to attract a new membership. A lot of the most successful names here still post there, too.

I check in with both because there's usually one little tidbit of info a month that helps me move forward. (Like being told on the other forum over a month ago about Canadian print prices being available now.) But neither place is what the old KB was when I found it. And I'm not sure any place ever will be again. We're not in that stage anymore.
 

TimothyEllis

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2019, 12:22:23 AM »
"We did have a dummy spit here back Octoberish, so I suspect we lost a few people over that," and you can see that there's a tendency not to 'rock the boat, or post anything that might result in disagreement.

Not really.

Misunderstandings and disagreements are normal. We get less of them here than other places, but the fallout is always the same. They happen, regardless.

Our launch point was the desire to leave KB behind. We've done that and unless we find another draw, we'll stagnate. I see other KB people have come on board and that's good. I think this is going to be a slow growth forum, but it will grow.

The forum has been way beyond what I thought it would be. Seriously, when I created it, I gave it 3 months before I deleted it again from lack of use. I've done a lot of these forums over time, and some of them didn't even make a month before I pulled the plug. I've had a few which lasted for 2 or 3 years, but most are requested by people who don't follow through and use them.

I had no idea if this one would work or not, and so far, I consider it working really well. It might not get the traffic KB did/does, but it also gets way more than other author forums do.

I'm in less than a handful of FB groups, mainly because of the lack of moderation, or the totally over the top moderation, and stupid rules which get overenforced.

Where you go is what you find, and I find what we have here to be a good place to be. It's lack of traffic doesn't bother me. It gets enough to keep me from wondering if its past its use by date yet, and we do pick up new people about as fast as we lose them.

We are in that stage where those who didn't like the format have mostly gone, and those who never intended to come here didn't. It's all good.

I do an occasional plug on Quora with author questions, but nothing else. I'm going to Worldcon in NZ next year, and will take cards or flyers with me.

But for now, I'm content.
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TimothyEllis

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2019, 12:33:20 AM »
about how no one should expect to earn a living from writing where a large number of the regular posters on here agreed.

The same question comes up on Quora almost weekly, and the posters there say the same thing as here. You can make a living, but you probably won't.

I don't see how telling people reality is in any way a problem.

Quote
And there are a few very frequent, very vocal participants here who I would not expose newbies to because they wouldn't have the ability to see through the bullsh*t.

I think we have less than most author places in that regard.

The difference here is they don't get over-moderated. (most of the time) All sides of an issue can be discussed here, as long as you stay civil about it. Where on KB, the mods will delete anything which is aimed at anyone on one of their pedestals. Here, as long as you play the ball and not the man, there is no need for moderation.

Quote
And honestly, the animosity towards the other place just needs to go if you want to attract a new membership. A lot of the most successful names here still post there, too.

I'm not sure I'd go along with that last part, but I know quite a few do.

The 'animosity' is something which will die over time, assuming people don't keep coming here after some new occurrence of something 'over there'. We see less and less reference now. And it only tends to come up when something blows up there, and is reported here.

The last big blowup here was in fact brought from there, and created more of what you said we needed to lose. That happens. Hopefully it will happen less. And we (or I) did learn a lesson from that gigantic misunderstanding in a teacup.
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Simon Haynes

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2019, 01:06:20 AM »
And thinking about Silver Enigma?

Of course! That's one of the main reasons I've switched Hal Zero from a full novel to half a novel.. so I can get on with Enigma.
 

Anarchist

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2019, 01:16:23 AM »
I don't post at KB anymore. But that's because I'm on post moderation. :)
Don't leave us hanging.  Tell us the story.   :icon_mrgreen:

It's not that interesting. The gist is that my posts sometimes break the forum's rules with regard to recognizing other members.

More details in case anyone is curious:

I dislike many types of people. Examples...

  • Delusional people (e.g. "My books don't sell because I'm black and people won't buy books written by black authors.")
  • People with a victim mentality (e.g. "Everyone is picking on me!")
  • sh*tposters (e.g. 90% of a sh*tposter's posts are polls, Youtube grabs, or tripe like "Good tip!", "Wow!", or "Nice to know!")
  • People who are easily offended (e.g. "Your tone is hurtful to me" or "The way you say that is insensitive.")
  • People who are entitled (e.g. "I just want to tell the stories in my heart..." followed by "Why won't my books sell?!")
  • People who are melodramatic (e.g. "I'm just going to give up!")
  • People who speak with authority on topics about which they're clearly ignorant (e.g. "AMS is a scam that only works for Amazon.")
  • People who are strident with their advice despite having telephone-number sales ranks. (e.g. "Don't ever give your books away for free" while their best-selling books have ranks in the high six figures.)
  • People who are overly woke (e.g. "Any book that's insensitive to [insert any of 37 genders here] says a lot about the author.")

I usually ignore them. But sometimes, these knuckleheads carpet bomb the forum. It's like walking through a park and noticing a discarded cup. Eh, big deal. But if you see dozens of discarded cups, fast-food bags, and used condoms, it becomes irksome.

I have, on occasion, posted to highlight the shenanigans of people I dislike. Doing so is admittedly against the rules. So, I was rightfully placed on post mod.

It was a good move. The sole mod left has the thankless job of monitoring thousands of posts by herself. Naturally, her tolerance for brazen rule-breaking must wane.

The decision works for me, too. My new restricted status has removed my desire to post. And that has saved me time. I've never asked for advice on KB, so it's not like a valuable resource was taken from me.

Plus, I can spend the saved time on other things. For example, the new Call of Duty recently launched and it ain't gonna play itself. :)



« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 03:42:30 PM by Anarchist »
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.” – Thomas Sowell

"The State is an institution run by gangs of murderers, plunderers and thieves, surrounded by willing executioners, propagandists, sycophants, crooks, liars, clowns, charlatans, dupes and useful idiots—an institution that dirties and taints everything it touches.” - Hans Hoppe

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LilyBLily

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2019, 02:07:46 AM »
In the past, I benefited from a lot of experiential posts on other sites and loops. Some of those loops have dried up on their own and others have come into being to fill new needs. I hope to keep benefiting from experiential posts here and contribute when I can. That's why I keep showing up.

 

Lynn

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2019, 02:24:22 AM »
Thanks everyone for trying to answer the question. Had a power outage last night and lost my internet for four hours so I couldn't respond. :D

I'll just say thanks again instead of trying to go back and respond to everyone!
Don't rush me.
 
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Gerri Attrick

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2019, 02:24:59 AM »
I come along every day, though I don't often post. I am grateful to those who do, even the argumentative and contentious amongst us, because I always learn a lot - and I can scroll on past if the I don't like something. Or someone.

I've been on KB since early 2011. It was recommended by David Gaughran. I posted once - and got jumped on by the she-wolves (not the mods, I hasten to add), so rarely posted again. Now, as others have said, it's mainly newbies, editors and cover designers posting there.

I belong to one other writing forum. It's very small, very friendly, and that's where I do most of my posting.
 

Bill Hiatt

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Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2019, 03:20:28 AM »
There are a lot of threads I don't read. Usually, I read only if something looks interesting or appears to be a subject to which I think I might be able to learn something from and/or intelligently contribute to. I have to say that I haven't seen that much hostility toward the other place. Perhaps I missed something. Personally, I don't have any animosity at all. I left because of the new ownership and not for any other reasons. I know some people post both places, and that's fine. How much one wishes to participate anywhere is an individual choice.

While I understand the concern expressed about exposing newbies to the idea that most people can't make a living at writing, that is where we are--and where writers always were, if we're being honest. A few make a really good living, a somewhat greater number scrape by, a still greater number make a nice supplement to their income, and the rest of us make very little. That was true even during the early KDP gold rush. It's true even of trad published authors. That doesn't mean people shouldn't pursue writing. But, as I used to tell my students, "Follow you dream--but have a plan b."

As for the observation that the writing advice is mostly writing 101, I think that's inevitable for several reasons:

First, sometimes people who are enormously successful are too busy writing and marketing to spend much time on forums discussing writing and marketing.
Second, sometimes people who are enormously successful do participate a little and then stop because their advice isn't accepted. Sometimes, those instances are caused by other posters who are married to a particular theory and just don't want to hear anything different. I can understand how a contributor would be frustrated by that. Sometimes, that kind of issue arises due to misunderstanding. I've seen prominent writers take offense because someone suggests that their experience may not be applicable to people in other circumstances. (In fact, every single thing that works for Jim Bestseller may not work for Joe Prawn, and we see threads almost every day in which even people who are closer together in terms of performance report radically different results for the same strategy.) Either way, the authors involved end up staying away.
Third, sometimes people who are enormously successful would rather not reveal the details of their success. I want to emphasize that I'm not criticizing them for making this choice. Some methods might become less effective if everyone started using them. (Use of free promotions comes to mind.) There's also an understandable desire to monetize the secrets of one's success. (I might well do that myself if I had any secrets worth selling.) In some ways, this is probably the single most important factor that tends to make most free online market information fairly basic.

I'm grateful for people who do share strategies and results. I'm not surprised or worried by the fact that there aren't more of them.

I have found enough information on here to change my opinions on some subjects, so for me, the site definitely serves a useful purpose.


Tickling the imagination one book at a time
Bill Hiatt | fiction website | Facebook author page |
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2019, 04:20:09 AM »
I probably posted in the 'you can't make a living' thread that I do. And I can't say I consider myself something special that I should be able to when other people can't. I am not in the 'enormously successful' category either, I just make a pretty decent living at it. But the fact is (and always has been) that most authors don't make a living writing. There is no point in pretending otherwise. That doesn't mean it isn't possible either.

I like this board which is why I post here. I dislike FB and do not post there at all. I even deleted my account there.

So I hope we keep plugging along, and if it's never the biggest and busiest forum in creation, that's fine with me too.
 

Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2019, 04:39:18 AM »
I doubt the forum is on life support, but I do think the board could use some tightening up down the road. Also, in another thread, I suggested the banner might be changed from "Have a question..." to "Self-Publishing Forum" or similar to entice more members.

Or go another way. The general zeitgeist in indie publishing is pretty sad. Google "self-publishing" how-to's, or any phrase you might have used when your journey into indie publishing began, and you'll be clobbered with "Make Money Self Publishing!" nonsense, with every bullet-point from KB featured in their "secret formulas to success". Maybe the forum topper should read "Make Money Self-Publishing!!!"
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 

Lynn

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2019, 04:55:41 AM »
The general zeitgeist in indie publishing is pretty sad. Google "self-publishing" how-to's, or any phrase you might have used when your journey into indie publishing began, and you'll be clobbered with "Make Money Self Publishing!" nonsense, with every bullet-point from KB featured in their "secret formulas to success". Maybe the forum topper should read "Make Money Self-Publishing!!!"

It also feels a lot less hopeful these days. I mean, I hear of successes but I don't hear a lot of joy around those stories like in the "old days". Discussions are often tinged with hopelessness. Am I delusional or is that vibe real everywhere writers hang out these days?

Maybe people would rather hole up and not deal with that. I know that feeling. :D I try not to hang around anywhere that I leave feeling less hopeful than when I arrived. The death of hope is pretty much the death of everything. Without it, it's hard to get through life.
Don't rush me.
 
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idontknowyet

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2019, 05:19:18 AM »
The general zeitgeist in indie publishing is pretty sad. Google "self-publishing" how-to's, or any phrase you might have used when your journey into indie publishing began, and you'll be clobbered with "Make Money Self Publishing!" nonsense, with every bullet-point from KB featured in their "secret formulas to success". Maybe the forum topper should read "Make Money Self-Publishing!!!"

It also feels a lot less hopeful these days. I mean, I hear of successes but I don't hear a lot of joy around those stories like in the "old days". Discussions are often tinged with hopelessness. Am I delusional or is that vibe real everywhere writers hang out these days?

Maybe people would rather hole up and not deal with that. I know that feeling. :D I try not to hang around anywhere that I leave feeling less hopeful than when I arrived. The death of hope is pretty much the death of everything. Without it, it's hard to get through life.
I have to say no it isn't. I'm am  in a few that are very positive.

That said to be real, exponentially more writers will fail than will succeed. You will see people on the spectrum of determined to make it work and giving up cause they try everything and still fail.

Anyone that goes into this field and doesn't get that is a fool. I was one when I first started  writing. Now I am doing as much research and work before I release to lower the chance of that happening, but the odds aren't much better.

I am part of an editor group (cause my grammar is so bad I thought I might pick up tips there), and the topic of should you tell a person they should give up their dream came up. Now editors see hundreds probably thousands of books in their career. I would hope they can tell the difference between lack of finesse and lack of innate ability.  Almost unanimously they said no. Their job is to help people hone writers skills. A few were honest enough to say they think it but don't say it.
Reading passages that people put up for critique really has me wondering. Again I sit there knowing I am probably that person. But telling an engaging story is an art we can hone the skill with practice but to a certain degree it is an innate skill that you have or don't have. Regardless of how many voice lessons I take, I will never be able to sing well enough to sell music. Being honest with authors and saying your books wont ever sell is much kinder imho than letting people kill themselves spend all the money their family has or doesn't have on a pipe dream.


I hope you a feeling better Lynn.
 

Gerri Attrick

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2019, 05:25:41 AM »
I think you are right about the hopelessness, Lynn, but that's because a lot (too many?) people have jumped on the bandwagon. There are too many people offering their *Guide to Self Publishing Success* that, when others fail, it leaves a bitter taste in their mouth. Shoe is right, there. And I won't mention any names of these "dream sellers".

Also, when people started out, made some success, and announced it with joy (over at The Other Place, I mean) they often found that their 5* reviews were down voted, 1* reviews started appearing, and the jealous and the twisted did their best to shoot them down. Small wonder that they either shut up, or moved on.
 
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Lynn

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2019, 05:39:39 AM »

I hope you a feeling better Lynn.

Thank you very much! :D

But I feel pretty good these days. I had a bout of depression a couple of years ago that really knocked me down just when the money was really good (for me) and that helped tide me over when writing was really difficult for me and I went from 4-5 books a year to 1-2. That hurt in the long run financially speaking, but it didn't send me back to a day job, because I'm stubborn and I have always considered this career risky and have planned accordingly.

Financially, I'm still recovering, but emotionally, I'm doing good. And the writing is going much better too these days. I actually feel more hopeful than I've felt in a while. :D

2020 is going to be a great year if I have anything to say about it at all. :D
Don't rush me.
 
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Lynn

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2019, 05:42:25 AM »
I think you are right about the hopelessness, Lynn, but that's because a lot (too many?) people have jumped on the bandwagon. There are too many people offering their *Guide to Self Publishing Success* that, when others fail, it leaves a bitter taste in their mouth. Shoe is right, there. And I won't mention any names of these "dream sellers".

It always reminds me of the California Gold Rush stories I used to read, where the only people who really came out to the good were the suppliers, not the miners. :D So I always look at anyone offering any service a bit like I would look at a scam artist.

I know that sounds cynical, but it helps me differentiate what I really can use and what's just there to make someone else money off my hard work. :D
Don't rush me.
 
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Vijaya

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2019, 05:46:11 AM »
This is a great place. I just don't have much to offer... and this is also a busy time of the year. I do so appreciate all of you who share your experiences so generously.


Author of over 100 books and magazine pieces, primarily for children
Vijaya Bodach | Personal Blog | Bodach Books
 

JRTomlin

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2019, 05:54:34 AM »
I think you are right about the hopelessness, Lynn, but that's because a lot (too many?) people have jumped on the bandwagon. There are too many people offering their *Guide to Self Publishing Success* that, when others fail, it leaves a bitter taste in their mouth. Shoe is right, there. And I won't mention any names of these "dream sellers".

It always reminds me of the California Gold Rush stories I used to read, where the only people who really came out to the good were the suppliers, not the miners. :D So I always look at anyone offering any service a bit like I would look at a scam artist.

I know that sounds cynical, but it helps me differentiate what I really can use and what's just there to make someone else money off my hard work. :D
But offering supplies isn't a scam. Those miners needed supplies just like we need cover designers, editors, proofreaders, etc. Of course, there were some scammers then and there are people offering services who aren't qualified. It takes a little work to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 

Mark Gardner

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2019, 06:53:14 AM »
I hit the forum here daily, and I avoid the other place unless something is liked there. I’ll be pretty absent in 2020. I’m on hiatus to finish my Graduate degree. The only thing I’ll be doing next year is working on my non-English stuff.
 

Shoe

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2019, 09:01:14 AM »

But offering supplies isn't a scam.

It depends... It could just be me but I don't want non-vetted vendors hitting the forum offering $0.02 per word editing or any other service. I want tips from successful authors on where to go for editing or covers, newsletter promotions, or whatever else I might need as an indie.

The same goes for the "mavens" peddling how-to books in their signatures. KB is a fan-forum for several self-publishing gurus. I'm sure they're well-intentioned (not really), but they're responsible for 70% of the crap that gets uploaded to Amazon. There's no shortage of indies with books ranking in the millions who swear by them.
Martin Luther King: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
 
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idontknowyet

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2019, 09:32:43 AM »

But offering supplies isn't a scam.

It depends... It could just be me but I don't want non-vetted vendors hitting the forum offering $0.02 per word editing or any other service. I want tips from successful authors on where to go for editing or covers, newsletter promotions, or whatever else I might need as an indie.

The same goes for the "mavens" peddling how-to books in their signatures. KB is a fan-forum for several self-publishing gurus. I'm sure they're well-intentioned (not really), but they're responsible for 70% of the crap that gets uploaded to Amazon. There's no shortage of indies with books ranking in the millions who swear by them.
If you're thinking about the two big groups I am. In theory I don't think there is anything wrong with their programs. The ideas are capable of producing profits. The problem is not everyone can be rich/profitable. The market isn't big enough to support a million new books a year (no idea how many authors that breaks down too) that are dumped on amazon. The numbers just aren't there. You will get a % of people it works for but everyone it's literally impossible. You would need to get 50% of the population reading on a regular basis if not more to support that.
 

ilamont

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2019, 09:43:10 AM »
I check in about every other day, and sometimes contribute a comment here or there.

I think another reason for the decline in activity is that there isn't much *news* going on compared to a few years back, when there were all sorts of issues and new tools bubbling up: major changes to KU payouts, launch of Amazon Advertising and Bookbub, Indie Author reports, various scandals, etc.   
I am the author of Lean Media: How to focus creativity, streamline production, and create media that audiences love. Lean Media website, Lean Media blog. I am also the publisher of IN 30 MINUTES guides.

Follow me on Twitter at @ilamont.
 

JRTomlin

Re: Where'd everybody go?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2019, 10:45:47 AM »

But offering supplies isn't a scam.

It depends... It could just be me but I don't want non-vetted vendors hitting the forum offering $0.02 per word editing or any other service. I want tips from successful authors on where to go for editing or covers, newsletter promotions, or whatever else I might need as an indie.

The same goes for the "mavens" peddling how-to books in their signatures. KB is a fan-forum for several self-publishing gurus. I'm sure they're well-intentioned (not really), but they're responsible for 70% of the crap that gets uploaded to Amazon. There's no shortage of indies with books ranking in the millions who swear by them.
I don't agree. I think there should be both. I am fine with people offering their services. Most list whether they have referrals and list who has used their work. And someone might want to try out someone new or else we'll never have new, and probably lower-priced, services for those who can't afford the high end. I'm also happy to see when someone says who has done a great job for them in a post.

Those .02¢ edit services may well not be for you, but they may be what someone else really needs.