Author Topic: Checking again...  (Read 8824 times)

R. C.

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Checking again...
« on: October 24, 2021, 11:27:23 PM »
...just wondering, is anyone having success with BookBub ADs?

Before I jump back in to BB I thought I'd ask. I stopped using the BB platform when it took a dive, about six-eight weeks ago. 

R.C.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 06:46:16 AM by R. C. »
 

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2021, 12:16:04 AM »
I have. I have a consistent success with an ad with a .25cpc and 2.02 cpr . I've spent $2k over the past year on it.  :icon_eek: But I sell a book going for $3.99 daily. Is it only because of the ad? Probably not, but the ad definitely correlates many sales.
Have I been able to repeat my success? No. But I keep trying. My new book has now gone through 20 different ad creatives! Here's the newest one. I enjoy playing with the creatives and I believe if you're gonna be successful, you have to go beyond their standard ad.
Here's the creative I just made this morning

edit} I deleted ad on second thought as it appeared as shameless advertising. I can PM you if interested or reinstate if people are still interested.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 12:21:36 AM by alhawke »
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2021, 07:44:01 AM »
@AlHawke

In you BB ADs, do you use authors, categories, or both?

R.C.

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2021, 12:36:28 PM »
For my successful ad, I used 1 category and 25 authors. I couldn't believe I added that many authors, but I did. I think it's just grown.

I usually start my ads with ten, or so, authors and one or two categories. Then I adjust over time.
 
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PJ Post

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2021, 11:38:01 PM »
Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?
 

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2021, 01:29:28 AM »
Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?
AMS focuses more on keywords. You know, you land your occasional sponsored ad on a search and then you're put on a carousel. BB's different. BB is more about similar authors and categories/genres. BB takes advantage of their newsletter service and tags your ad with an email promotion. It also places your BB ad on the website when looking at authors or books.

AMS has never worked profitably for me. I've sold books there, but I've lost a lot of money. I can't compare with FB ads as I've never done those.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2021, 01:35:02 AM »
Do BB ads work like AMS and FB?

What AL said and one nuanced addition.  Kindle ADs catch a lot of eyes that may not be looking for a book.  BB ADs target readers. 

Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition. The competition is too fierce, high CPC, and the low product prices required to "stay in market" prohibit success.

R.C.

Also - BB ADs are small (300x250) by design. The AD copy has to be short, tight, and readable.
 
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PJ Post

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2021, 03:50:58 AM »
How are BB ads priced?
 

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2021, 04:10:16 AM »
How are BB ads priced?

Pay-per-click or Pay-per-impressions.

R.C.

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2021, 06:26:05 AM »
BB UPDATE

Three versions of two ADs running for two days, with categories and no authors.

Impressions: 9583
Clicks: 0

Added authors, one each for the various ADs, for another two day experiment.

If adding authors fails to produce clicks, next steps are, in order: revised categories, additional authors, new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or two, I'll see positive results.   :doh:

R.C.

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2021, 11:29:17 AM »
Are you creating your own creative or using their default? I use canva to create my BB ads. The goal is to get a CTR of around 2. I've created over two hundred ads over two years. It takes low bid $5/day, experiment, toss, and try again.
 

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2021, 10:14:54 PM »
Are you creating your own creative or using their default? I use canva to create my BB ads. The goal is to get a CTR of around 2. I've created over two hundred ads over two years. It takes low bid $5/day, experiment, toss, and try again.

I am creating the ADs. Canva works well but I use Photoshop.  Rinse and repeat seems to be the correct mantra.

R.C.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2021, 01:33:25 AM »
BB UPDATE - Day Six

"Don't feel bad, R.C. Negative results are still results." - Paraphrased from the Big Bang Thoery

Three versions of four ADs running for two-five days, with categories and authors.

Impressions: 31,713
Clicks: 0

Will modify content, authors and continue the experiment.

Adding new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or five, I'll see positive results.   :doh:

R.C.

PJ Post

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2021, 01:37:47 AM »
Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?
 

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2021, 02:13:44 AM »
Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.

R.C.

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2021, 02:42:25 AM »
Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.
RC, feel free to PM me for a look or any suggestions too. Or show us all your creative.
Some ads just don't take. Or the bots don't like them. Either way, good luck!
 
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PJ Post

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2021, 04:51:40 AM »
Forgive me RC, which book are you advertising?

Since you're running the experiment, maybe we can help with options?

PJ - Thank you for the kind offer. No need to go out of your way. I will figure it out. The upside, the experiment has not cost me anything.

I'm not being as altruistic as it may appear. I was thinking if we work together, on a specific project, we might figure out how to make these ads work better for everybody - without having to reinvent the wheel every time. It would be really helpful to figure out how each platform responds as well, in case we need to do different ads. For example, Instagram is a vertical, Facebook is square and the internet can be anything, but wide/cinematic images seem to be a thing at the moment. And then there's the colors and copy. Sorting out a formula would be pretty helpful. And since you're mid-experiment...

There's a whole team here at your disposal...just saying. The KB forum used to be like this.

 :tup3b
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2021, 05:36:28 AM »
BB UPDATE - Day Six

"Don't feel bad, R.C. Negative results are still results." - Paraphrased from the Big Bang Thoery

Three versions of four ADs running for two-five days, with categories and authors.

Impressions: 31,713
Clicks: 0

Will modify content, authors and continue the experiment.

Adding new ADs.

Maybe, in a month or five, I'll see positive results.   :doh:

R.C.
Is it a permafree first in series or 99 cents or something? Do you have the price in the ad? I liked to put the price in the ad.
 

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2021, 06:15:51 AM »
Okay - Accepting help is something the Misses says I need to work on...

No, prices. I read unless it is zero or 99 cents, the market rejects the AD without a second thought.

Here are a few of the currently BB ADs.  Failed ADs

Also, I am considering recycling older ADs that pulled a few clicks.

Happy to take suggestions.

R.C.

alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2021, 07:00:19 AM »
No, prices. I read unless it is zero or 99 cents, the market rejects the AD without a second thought.
This is definitely not true. My most successful ad is for a book that's $3.99. Your book doesn't have to be free or 99c to be successful for a BB ad.

The way to make it work is to have it run at 25c. But you don't start it that low. In order to get the bots rolling, you want to start it around $.65 USD. Then slowly work it down to 25cc Then you're getting enough clicks, like 20 daily per $5, to make it work. The trick is to find an ad successful enough. That's the trick.
 
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alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2021, 07:13:05 AM »
Here's my 2 cents. Looking at your ads, my biggest suggestion is to use a more professional font, particularly for your call to action (CTA). I really think font is your biggest problem. For more specifics:
1) I don't like the font with Shiny Lies. The ad's fine as it's just a background.
2) I really like that you used the whole creative for Aalborinn (this is a common new trend), but the ad looks busy. Cut down the wording.
3) I think your three book Biomass series was done the best. The main change here would be the font used for you CTA. Use a more professional font.
4) I love the background with Crazy Sweet Grass. Again, I don't like the font.

Font is the biggest change I'd make. Make it look more professional and formal, particularly for your red CTA.
Noticed I'm not commenting on what you said. Readers are looking at what interests them. I know we're writers, but I believe appearance trumps words in ads. The ads are read after a reader is interested.
Hope my comments help.
 
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alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2021, 07:20:18 AM »
Here's how I do my ads. It really can't get much simpler. Book. CTA with professional font. Background. Voila. I have many other ads with lots more words, but this is to show my push for simplicity in the image. I think of these ads more as book covers than snippets. Hopefully by seeing, you'll understand what I was talking about above:
https://alhawke.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Phantom-masquerade-dancer-ad.png
« Last Edit: October 31, 2021, 07:23:05 AM by alhawke »
 
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elleoco

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2021, 08:20:14 AM »
Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition.
If you have a massive and passionate fan base, why to you need any ads? Unless you don't have a mailing list or other way to let them know about a new book.
 
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Eric Thomson

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2021, 08:41:36 AM »
Amazon ADs, without a massive (passionate) fan base, is a losing proposition.
If you have a massive and passionate fan base, why to you need any ads? Unless you don't have a mailing list or other way to let them know about a new book.
:Tup2:

I get by largely on new releases I promote to my mailing list, FB followers, blog followers, forum followers, and those who signed up to follow me via D2D and Amazon. I recently came across a reader on a totally unrelated political forum where they recommended me in the same breath as Frank Herbert in a thread dealing with the sorry state of publishing.

I run AMS ads, but on automatic at a low cost mainly to attract new readers.
 

notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2021, 10:55:40 AM »
Here's some alternate copy for you. Don't know if it's any good, but maybe you can get some more ideas off it.

Ayidn and Allison look like the perfect couple. Looks can be deceiving.

Every spy hopes he never has to chose between his job and his family. Sorry, Ayidn.

Ayidn's mission continues in the new thriller from RC Ducatin.

The prophecy has come true. Now *name* has to fulfill her duty to ??

Name has come of age. Now to finish what her father started.

What would you do to live forever?



 
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j tanner

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2021, 01:44:13 PM »
Like alhawke said, they're almost universally too busy with poor font choices.

You might try making some using Canva templates and just replacing the images. They start with quality text choices. This should give you a sense of what a nice ad looks like. Then you can tinker from there.
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2021, 11:01:04 PM »
I also suggest you get on the bookbub subscription list for your genres and look at the ads they are running every day, if you aren't already. That could give you some more ideas about everything about the ads.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2021, 11:24:26 PM »
New plan...

Better fonts.
New pricing for first in series.
Better fonts.
Shorter crisper text.
Better fonts.
Cleaner CTA.
Better fonts.

Thanks to everyone. In a couple of days, I'll have the new versions published.

R.C.

Oh, and, it appears the fonts I chose kinda suck.  I'll use better fonts.   :doh: grint


R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2021, 05:19:31 AM »
Because I am now obsessed with getting this corrected, I took a big swing. 

I pulled down the ineffective ADs. Using your suggestions, I created new samples: WIP BB ADs

Positive input/correction/suggestion is/are appreciated.

Cheers,
R.C.

RBC

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2021, 05:42:23 AM »
Because I am now obsessed with getting this corrected, I took a big swing. 

I pulled down the ineffective ADs. Using your suggestions, I created new samples: WIP BB ADs

Positive input/correction/suggestion is/are appreciated.

Cheers,
R.C.

Hmm...liking the copy for Miranda and Time, others aren't captivating. Like Shiny Lies has action cover look but talks about couple, which is kind of romance-y? Visuals are pretty nice, font is decent altho still an old-looking one.
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2021, 06:15:37 AM »
I'll just tell you what my experience is with BB ads. Simpler is usually better, but prettier is not always better.

This is an ad I ran a few days ago which had a CTR of 2.9% on a very carefully curated list of target authors. After a lot of testing, for me this is the kind of ad that works best by far.

 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2021, 12:01:51 AM »
Thanks again for all the positive vibes.

For the fans of the original Star Trek series: One... More... Time...

Latest Ad Versions

R.C.

JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2021, 12:28:18 PM »
Let us know how it goes.

As I think I've said before, having a good list of target authors really is probably the most important part of running BB ads.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 12:31:19 PM by JRTomlin »
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2021, 10:25:00 PM »
UPDATE - 24 Hour Results

Parameters: High bids, No authors

Impressions: 73,208
Clicks: 3

Next Steps: Lower bids, Add authors.

R.C.

 
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notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2021, 12:20:40 AM »
I am starting up some bookbub ads again. I pulled authors off my also boughts for the book if you are looking for ideas.
 
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alhawke

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2021, 12:49:49 AM »
I really like your "Time" ad. Good luck!
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2021, 01:03:00 AM »
Also boughts are a good source. Also, go to your author page and find the "Customers Also Bought Items By" list. Of course, you then have to check on Bookbub whether those authors have followers there. Good luck.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2021, 10:54:58 PM »
UPDATE - 48 Hour Results

Parameters: Middling bids, added also bought and similar authors.

Impressions: 74,514
Clicks: 3

The addition of the authors dramatically restricted the impression pool.  The lower bids pushed the ADs to the bottom of the presentation algorithm.

Next Steps: Drinking heavily.

Serious next steps: Bump the bids.

R.C.

JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2021, 11:16:17 PM »
A larger impression pool is no help if the impressions are being seen by people who will not buy what you are selling. It took me dozens of tests to find a good list of comparable authors but your bids also have to be right. Frankly for testing, I don't suggest bidding low. Instead, you might use a low budget, but bid average. For each test, I set about a $15 budget so that I don't overspend but hit the average bid that BB suggests. That might give you a better look at how the authors perform.

On the subject of Also Boughts, sometimes it can be worthwhile to dig a bit deeper than your own list. If you share an audience with one particular author, you might go to that author's page and see what authors he has on his page. If they aren't already on your list, I'd suggest testing them. Then be sure that they have followers on BB. There is no point in targeting authors who have very few BB followers.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 11:26:08 PM by JRTomlin »
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2021, 11:32:31 PM »
... dig a bit deeper than your own list....

Thanks. Digging deeper is exactly what I did.  I went two and three layers deep to find complementary authors.

R.C.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 11:37:52 PM by R. C. »
 

RBC

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2021, 11:37:21 PM »
A larger impression pool is no help if the impressions are being seen by people who will not buy what you are selling. It took me dozens of tests to find a good list of comparable authors but your bids also have to be right. Frankly for testing, I don't suggest bidding low. Instead, you might use a low budget, but bid average. For each test, I set about a $15 budget so that I don't overspend but hit the average bid that BB suggests. That might give you a better look at how the authors perform.

On the subject of Also Boughts, sometimes it can be worthwhile to dig a bit deeper than your own list. If you share an audience with one particular author, you might go to that author's page and see what authors he has on his page. If they aren't already on your list, I'd suggest testing them. Then be sure that they have followers on BB. There is no point in targeting authors who have very few BB followers.

Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2021, 11:45:10 PM »
... dig a bit deeper than your own list....

Thanks. Digging deeper is exactly what I did.  I went two and three layers deep to find complementary authors.

R.C.
👍 Sounds like you're on the right track.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2021, 11:48:13 PM »
...
Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.

I am not aware of BB allowing any access to their list of author's followers. They provide the number of followers an author has on BB but nothing more.

R.C.

R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2021, 11:52:24 PM »
...
👍 Sounds like you're on the right track.

Being on the right track is a good thing, when you are Usain Bolt or Secretariat.  I appear to be mired in the mud, up the track.  Assuming, of course, you prefer your metaphors, mixed, not stirred.  :doh:

R.C.

notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2021, 01:05:05 AM »
...
Does BookBub actually allow to see followers list of authors they follow?
I'd then scout many followers on BB and get the list of authors that way too.

I am not aware of BB allowing any access to their list of author's followers. They provide the number of followers an author has on BB but nothing more.

R.C.
They email me when I get a new follower and tell me their username, I think. Anyone confirm? I just poked around in my bookbub account and couldn't find a list though.

However, I have 11000 + readers on bookbub which is what the ads use, AFAIK and 16 followers. They are different.
 
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JRTomlin

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2021, 01:40:44 AM »
No, they don't provide a list. I'm confused. Did I seem to imply that they did? If so it was unintentional.

I have never had BB email me except once a month, I think, tell me how many new followers I've gained.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 01:43:34 AM by JRTomlin »
 
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notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2021, 02:51:46 AM »
It seemed like someone was looking for a list. Got me curious.

I got this from Bookbub this week:

sha...23 is now following you on BookBub!

I redacted part of the username but bookbub gave me the full name.
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2021, 10:32:10 PM »
UPDATE - 72 Hour Results

Parameters: Bumped bids a few cents.

Impressions: 75,727
Clicks: 3

Confirmed, the lower bids pushed the ADs to the bottom of the presentation algorithm. The addition of the authors restricted the algorithm's ability find placements.

Next steps: Bump the bids a few more cents.

R.C.

notthatamanda

Re: Checking again...
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2021, 11:22:53 PM »
Can you elaborate? Why would adding authors make it harder to get bids (If I understand what you are saying correctly.)?
 
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R. C.

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Re: Checking again...
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2021, 11:46:28 PM »
Can you elaborate? Why would adding authors make it harder to get bids (If I understand what you are saying correctly.)?

SIMPLIFIED

As I understand the tool, the categories are an OR, the authors are an OR, the combination is an AND.  Meaning:

IF user preference is Science Fiction OR Thriller AND user follows/liked author Any Wier OR Matt Haig, THEN present the impression.

As you can imagine, the logic can become complex.

IF user preference is A OR B OR C AND user follows/liked author X OR Y OR Z, THEN present the impression.

CORRECTED - Both parts (the stuff in the parenthesis) has to be true

IF user preference is (A OR B OR C AND user follows/liked author X OR Y OR Z,) AND (BID >= Theoretical Minimum,) THEN present the impression.

R.C.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 06:51:05 AM by R. C. »