Writer Sanctum
Writer's Haven => Quill and Feather Pub [Public] => Topic started by: WriteOn on September 18, 2019, 05:38:42 AM
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Someone recommended I read this:
https://medium.com/page-count/how-to-lose-a-third-of-a-million-dollars-without-really-trying-d3c343675aca
Then recommended I read this response:
Chuck Wendig couldn't have responded any better.
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2019/09/17/how-to-be-a-professional-author-and-not-die-screaming-and-starving-in-a-lightless-abyss/
I'm not sure how an author getting those kinds of advances could really be this clueless. And all the blaming. It was everyone else's fault she blew her money. Granted, where was her agent, but this is how the traditional publishing world sucks authors in.
And seriously, ask some questions! Read some writers' forums. Ask your author friends.
ETA - I forgot to put the link to Chuck Wendig's response. I've now added it. Oops.
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I'm not sure how an author getting those kinds of advances could really be this clueless. And all the blaming. It was everyone else's fault she blew her money. Granted, where was her agent, but this is how the traditional publishing world sucks authors in.
It's precisely because she got $375K in two advances that she thought she'd lit a rocket to infinity and beyond. Nothing says success like those six figure deposits in your bank account, or so I hear.
And the traditional publishing system makes it virtually impossible to get real numbers on sales and earnings. Then, when the numbers do come, they're way out of date. I'm not sure that most of us, when surrounded by a network of people who thought of themselves as artists instead of business people, would do much better. It's human nature.
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Only authors think that someone is supposed to hold their hands every step of the way. Does anyone tell teachers or plumbers how to live? No, they are expected to figure it out. "Why didn't someone tell me this and why didn't someone tell me that?" Well, why did she not make it her business to find out -- because it was her business.
She repeatedly mentions doing research but not once apparently did she research the basic facts of life for writers which are, by the way, out there and pretty easy to find. My sympathy, obviously, is very limited.
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She was probably very young.
But now I don't know why she's whining about 20k advances. Geez, write two books a year and do a couple extras on the side. It looks like she's already coaching or whatever.
Indie publishing has the advantage that it forces you to learn the business.
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Sometimes you don't know the questions you need to ask until you've had a few hard knocks. I feel for her. I think it's good that she's trying to make sure other people don't end up in her situation. I can't fault that.
It's hard to be open and honest about stuff because there's inevitably going to be a bunch of people telling you how stupid you were and how they wouldn't have made the same mistakes.
But we all know how that goes. It's easy to be brilliant when picking apart someone else's mistakes. :D
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Only authors think that someone is supposed to hold their hands every step of the way. Does anyone tell teachers or plumbers how to live? No, they are expected to figure it out. "Why didn't someone tell me this and why didn't someone tell me that?" Well, why did she not make it her business to find out -- because it was her business.
She repeatedly mentions doing research but not once apparently did she research the basic facts of life for writers which are, by the way, out there and pretty easy to find. My sympathy, obviously, is very limited.
The info is easy for us to find, because we know where to look. Would a debut author necessarily know the right places to look or the right people to trust? I'm not sure. There's a lot of information that's readily available, but not all of it is accurate.
The article does illustrate how much trad publishing has deteriorated. I knew that publishers were increasingly offloading promotion on authors, but a Big Five author getting six-figure advances? She's exactly the kind of person I would have expected to get more publisher support.
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This struck me, from the second article:
It’s funny, I’ve met with Amazon multiple times under the auspices of, “Tell us how to help authors more.” Arguably because they want to help more than publishers do, making friends of authors directly, beyond publisher relationships — which, ennnh, okay. Still, I always tell them one thing: GIVE AUTHORS MORE DATA. Tell us our sales! Tell us our Kindle sales in particular! Tell us when people quit reading our books! And they say OOH YES GOOD POINT and then it never happens and hahaha good times.)
I guess we have it better than the trad published authors on that point.
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I read a little of her sad story and just couldn't read any more. The truth is, lots of us make mistakes in our lives. I feel for her, but at the same time, I know that the very first thing you do with a seriously large check is pay off all your debt. I also note she drank the Kool-Aid about getting an MFA in writing. You're welcome to argue with me, but chances are that MFA is going to be useless. I believe in education, but not overpriced trade schools that feed to nowhere.
What an author needs is a very well developed sense of self-protection. A complete lack of trust in anyone helps, too. It's also a good idea to read some of the famous stories about how bestselling authors and genius inventors and so on got screwed over financially. If it could happen to Joe Famous, it could happen to you.
But other than that, eh. We all make our share of stupid choices based on our flawed understanding of the world.
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Any last illusions I had that being Indie was not better than trad, just got blown away.
Ok, stupid doing stupid, call what happened to her what it was.
But, now I also understand why a lot of medium publishers have been going down the last couple of years, which was highlighted in another thread here. If they are really offering that much in advances, and cant see the books wont earn them back in advance, the publishers are also stupid doing stupid.
At least with us Indies, its a month by month thing and we can see our numbers.
Sad for her, but serious WTF?
I've had 3 great performing books out of 27, and I did pay off the mortgage first with them. Now I'm in 20booksto50k territory writing for my fans, and so generating the basics. Doing my first promo in 18 months next weekend. But the basics from 27 books and each new release nudge, is nicely supplying what I need to live on without any form of panic setting in. Couple more books to do, and then I start on something new to write.
But, yeah, trad publishing is seriously f*cked up, and I dont understand why so many people think its the only path.
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She reads a lot like those lottery winners that win a few million and then are declaring bankruptcy a few years later. Spend spend spend even through there is no promise of more money in the future.
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It's a sad tale. I really wish schools taught kids more about money management, dealing with a windfall, that kind of thing. Just the basics on managing finances would be a good start.
I learned from my parents, which is where kids SHOULD learn about money management, but often parents know even less than their kids about these kinds of things. Or the things they know and put into practice are just plain wrong.
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The progression of this was exactly like that of a lottery winner, which is weird since in part of her article she did the calculations to find her two big advances amounted to what a teacher makes in 4 years. Then why did she get $15 drinks and eat out often. Teachers are asking their students to help provide school supplies, I doubt they are living large.
Read a post on Reddit a few days ago regarding teaching personal finance in school and the person brought up a good point. Kids don't pay attention in class regardless of subject, makes no difference if it's English, history, math, or personal finance.
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Read a post on Reddit a few days ago regarding teaching personal finance in school and the person brought up a good point. Kids don't pay attention in class regardless of subject, makes no difference if it's English, history, math, or personal finance.
I'd agree, except kids are often engaged by something new and different. e.g. an excursion, an author visit, grandparents morning, etc. If the finance thing was covered in a special presentation, replacing a math class (for example), I bet some would be interested.
As long as they kept the powerpoint slides and pie charts far, far away...
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This struck me, from the second article:
It’s funny, I’ve met with Amazon multiple times under the auspices of, “Tell us how to help authors more.” Arguably because they want to help more than publishers do, making friends of authors directly, beyond publisher relationships — which, ennnh, okay. Still, I always tell them one thing: GIVE AUTHORS MORE DATA. Tell us our sales! Tell us our Kindle sales in particular! Tell us when people quit reading our books! And they say OOH YES GOOD POINT and then it never happens and hahaha good times.)
I guess we have it better than the trad published authors on that point.
Yeah - as I read that, I was thinking - KDP provides daily sales info for publishers through KDP, so I'm thinking that the problem is not so much with Amazon, as with the publishers ...
I do love a good Wendig rant, though.
All of this made me really glad that, the way things have worked out, I've come to self-publishing with a bit of experience at running my own business, and knowing how quickly things can change (those months where my biggest client was late paying me, and I had tax to pay? Yikes - talk about staring into the abyss).
A six figure advance would be nice (although - always read the contract!), but I love the control we get self-publishing.
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If people think the KDP reports are bad, they should try the ones on Kobo. Updated once a month, about four-eight weeks after the fact if you're lucky, some wierd spreadsheet with an invoice for $0 in the first tab AND they don't even include free downloads!
Every time they send me a survey or whatever I complain about their reporting.
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Well, I get so little sales on Kobo I don't really need reports. Never tried them. :)
But I don't mind the Kdp reports. In fact, even if they fixed them, to make them inarguably better, the time for me to adjust to the newness of it would be a pain in my butt. I'm just glad we can get the data as author and publisher, instead of having a publisher keeping that data from me, the author, especially if it's part of the way I get paid.
Is paying royalties something smaller publishers do? I thought traditional publishing traditionally worked on the pay an advance for the book, then that's it. Book is it a hit, bigger advance for next book, until the author got popular enough to demand more, possibly royalties per book. That was the impression I had, maybe I was wrong, maybe it changed, or maybe smaller publishers tried to do things differently and it didn't work.
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I was with a smaller publisher in Australia. Very low advance, but I got royalties for some years afterwards.
I also had two books picked up by Bastei Lubbe in Germany. Big publisher (think Star Wars, etc), and they paid a much larger advance but I never earned out.
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What does "earning out" mean?
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What does "earning out" mean?
They dont pay you anything until the number of sales the contract says makes up the advance amount is reached.
Works the same way with audio. They agree to a royalty, but there is a certain number of sales before they start paying the royalty.
If you earned out, it means you reached the number of sales, and they start to actually pay you more.
Is paying royalties something smaller publishers do? I thought traditional publishing traditionally worked on the pay an advance for the book, then that's it. Book is it a hit, bigger advance for next book, until the author got popular enough to demand more, possibly royalties per book. That was the impression I had, maybe I was wrong, maybe it changed, or maybe smaller publishers tried to do things differently and it didn't work.
Not the way it works, but a high proportion of books never earn out, so the perception of it being that way would be common.
The expectation now is you get an advance, and that's the lot. But it's not what should be happening if the book was really a seller.
The thing is though, the number of sales to reach the threshold for royalty payments is weighted in the publishers direction. So they are making something if the book does near the threshold, but doesn't cross it.
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Okay, I get it. Thanks for the explanation.
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One thing the author doesn't mention (and might not know) is that high advances come with their share of risk.
When the publisher gives an author high advances, they expect a large amount of sales. If the sales don't come, they're quick to drop the author. It's super common! No idea how she didn't know it.
But, now I also understand why a lot of medium publishers have been going down the last couple of years, which was highlighted in another thread here. If they are really offering that much in advances, and cant see the books wont earn them back in advance, the publishers are also stupid doing stupid.
But the way trad publishing is that they'll lose on nine authors and earn out on one. It's a terrible system for the midlisters.
Years back I went to a conference for bands and musicians. An experienced producer told me something I'll never forget:
"Record companies aren't interested in selling. They are interested in finding the new hit." He explained that it was the reason why they dropped moderately but steady selling artists, for example.
Well, record companies have gone down the drain, but the logic is the same for big publishers.
It's Las Vegas, baby! They want the new "insert hot name here", and they'll place bets. They'll lose often, but considering how they dominate some markets (bookstores, for example), they are still winning enough to keep playing.
This is big 6 logic, there are exceptions in smaller publishers and imprints. Anyway, if you understand that it's about betting, some bizarre behaviours make more sense.
Why would they not market a book series for which they paid a quarter million? It could be because circumstances changed and they realized it's not a hot bet, or they have a hotter bet to which they're directing their resources. Maybe they have only so many books in a genre, and they can't market them all equally. They'll focus on the ones that they believe can hit the jackpot.
The company always wins. Out of so many bets, a few are going to make it. There are only a handful of big 6 publishers and the big hits are still coming from them, with few exceptions. The individuals are screwed (including acquisitions editors, agents, not to mention authors, of course).
The growth if indie publishing could eventually change the scene.
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I wonder if the success of Fifty Shades prompted the formation of more small publishers or if more of them decided to bet the farm that they could repeat that.
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Windfall money can make people act very stupidly. No personal finance course is going to teach people how to handle it.
We are the smallest publishers of all, and we all know not to bet the farm, not to go into credit card debt to pay our suppliers or ad costs, and not to count on every book being a major hit. Too bad some of the smaller publishers don't understand basic math.
Most small businesses fail. We are swimming against the tide expecting to produce profits. Yet if we keep a laser focus on money in versus money out, we can keep our heads above water while we also pursue the dream of the big score.
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The company always wins. Out of so many bets, a few are going to make it.
This is how venture capital works, too. You invest in ten companies, two will be stellar, two will be horrible, the other six will be eh. It's the two stellar out of ten that make it all work and they accept that those are the odds they're working with.
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The company always wins. Out of so many bets, a few are going to make it.
This is how venture capital works, too. You invest in ten companies, two will be stellar, two will be horrible, the other six will be eh. It's the two stellar out of ten that make it all work and they accept that those are the odds they're working with.
You know, I'm tempted to say this is how it used to work.
We're in the age of stagnation economics now, and working only so-so, is no longer the same as working meh used to be. The barely working is now as bad as not working in economic terms, because there is no longer any margin for error.
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Publishers gauge the success of a book/series on the preorders they get from bookstores and the big chains. If those outlets don't bite, or their orders don't meet a certain expectation, the series can be considered dead before a reader has even bought the first copy.
An author doesn't recover from that. They have to get a new pen name and start over.
Trad pub is truly brutal. As the author of a long series (= more than 3 books), I discovered first-hand what it's like when a publisher is trying to push book 4 to retail outlets after books 1-3 have all disappeared from shelves. The publisher and I terminated my contract by mutual agreement when I wanted to write book 5 and they knew they couldn't sell it.
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Trad pub is truly brutal.
And yet Quora is full of people all wanting to know how to be trad published.
And full of trad published authors poopooing being Indie.
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Trad pub is truly brutal.
And yet Quora is full of people all wanting to know how to be trad published.
And full of trad published authors poopooing being Indie.
And casinos are full of people hoping to win a million bucks at slots.
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Trad pub is the holy grail to many, especially those who seek recognition and a big payday up front.
If you're looking at a 10- or 20-year career plan, it doesn't make sense. Not unless you can absolutely positively get your rights reverted after the publisher has had 2-3 years to milk what they can from a particular title.
I was lucky, because my contract came about before ebooks were a thing, and I managed to get my rights back without having to worry what 'still in print' really meant.
I'd suggest Trad Pub is wonderful for the top 1-3%, and a grind for the rest.
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Some authors enjoy the marketing/business side of publishing. I'm one of them. I may never make the big bucks, but I decide what I write, how I promote it, and when I want to make changes.
Being able to pivot quickly, if/when the market changes, can be a huge advantage.
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If I made a third of a million dollars in a book advance, I would pay down the house and buy a rental property. Cashflow baby! :cool:
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If I made a third of a million dollars in a book advance, I would pay down the house and buy a rental property. Cashflow baby! :cool:
That's what we all would like to think we'd do, be money smart. But the experience with lottery winners shows that most people aren't that disciplined. They'll have a hell of a good time until the money is gone.
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On the one hand, I appreciate that she's trying to caution new authors. And it's understandable that an inexperienced person might make mistakes.
But the constant NO ONE MENTORED ME whining was like a drill in my ear. And she gripes about how her publisher never printed bookmarks for her after she got huge advances and a book tour! Cry me a river. And I'm amused by how she seems to be getting more sympathy from traditionally published authors, while indie authors seem to think "Wow. This woman has zero business or financial sense."
Although because she's an "author mentor," this article functions as a clever piece of marketing. So perhaps her business skills have improved? I wish her well.
Wonder
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Although because she's an "author mentor," this article functions as a clever piece of marketing.
Oooooh. So, it's a marketing piece designed to reach the target audience for her services?
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Although because she's an "author mentor," this article functions as a clever piece of marketing.
Oooooh. So, it's a marketing piece designed to reach the target audience for her services?
That's my theory. :icon_mrgreen:
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
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That's what we all would like to think we'd do, be money smart. But the experience with lottery winners shows that most people are that disciplined. The have a hell of a good time until the money is gone.
Oh, I'm sure I'd be money smart. If I weren't, my wife would kill me! :hehe
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If I made a third of a million dollars in a book advance, I would pay down the house and buy a rental property. Cashflow baby! :cool:
That's what we all would like to think we'd do, be money smart. But the experience with lottery winners shows that most people are that disciplined. The have a hell of a good time until the money is gone.
I think you meant "aren't that disciplined" otherwise :icon_think:.
But, most people aren't that disciplined, true. Only a few people win the lottery. Of those few, most fall into the category of the aforementioned most people, so most lottery winners aren't that disciplined with their winnings.
Fewer people in general are disciplined with money and probably only a minority of those purchase lottery tickets which means that lottery winners are far more likely to fall into the undisciplined group of money handlers than the disciplined group.
Now, of those few people who are disciplined with money and do win the lottery, some will no doubt lose their minds and spend like crazy. Others will maintain their discipline. Of the latter group, you probably won't even hear their stories because a lottery winner spending cautiously just doesn't grab the headlines as much as a lottery winner who has lost their home after a year because they spent like wild. And, probably of those disciplined lottery winners, they are probably putting the money into a trust or something and living off the interest and not the actual winnings.
I think and hope I might be in that minority, but there's only one way to find out. If any of you is willing to participate in a fiscal responsibility study of people who come into large amounts of money overnight, feel free to send me a couple million dollars and I'll report back the results in a year's time. Feel free to pool your money and make it a group project. I can deposit thirty checks as easily as one. I mean, it would require three deposit tickets, but I'll suffer the inconvenience for science.
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
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And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
Reminds me of a survey some bigwig indie did on KB a few years back. Purportedly wanted to get some good stats on indies to compare to trad authors and show how much better indies were doing, but he only wanted to hear from indies making over x sales/dollars per year.
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I think and hope I might be in that minority, but there's only one way to find out. If any of you is willing to participate in a fiscal responsibility study of people who come into large amounts of money overnight, feel free to send me a couple million dollars and I'll report back the results in a year's time. Feel free to pool your money and make it a group project. I can deposit thirty checks as easily as one. I mean, it would require three deposit tickets, but I'll suffer the inconvenience for science.
In the name of science, I'll put up the first million for you.
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If I made a third of a million dollars in a book advance, I would pay down the house and buy a rental property. Cashflow baby! :cool:
I wouldn't want the headaches of being a landlord. Property destruction, tenants who you evict but who refuse to leave, etc. I don't know how any landlord does it without having a nervous breakdown. Instead, I'd invest the bulk of that 375k in things that yielded interest and dividends. You can get a five-figure income from that principal without taking on any significant risk.
Also, it might be more advantageous to not pay down the house. It all depends on the interest rates and taxes. You might be able to run your own personal carry trade vis-a-vis your investment income and your mortgage.
In the name of science, I'll put up the first million for you.
Will you be my friend, too? :icon_mrgreen:
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I wouldn't want the headaches of being a landlord. Property destruction, tenants who you evict but who refuse to leave, etc. I don't know how any landlord does it without having a nervous breakdown.
Buy a commercial property. Leasing to a business would be slightly less troublesome than residential tenants.
Will you be my friend, too? :icon_mrgreen:
Hey, now. This isn't about friendship! This is some serious science stuff here, man. Science! Not social niceties. SCIENCE.
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Trad pub is truly brutal.
And yet Quora is full of people all wanting to know how to be trad published.
And full of trad published authors poopooing being Indie.
They have to poopoo (this is a new verb for me) being indie.
Many trad authors aren't getting money, so at least they have the status of "having been traditionally published".
Trad publishing needs to remain as a mark of distinction, or else what have they achieved when their books are out of print and the advance is gone?
Although because she's an "author mentor," this article functions as a clever piece of marketing.
Oooooh. So, it's a marketing piece designed to reach the target audience for her services?
Yeah. All her articles are like that. I'll admit this is smart, it shows vulnerability and past mistakes while at the same time showing off as someone who's "made it". It also generates discussion. It's neat. At the same time, it still shows some naivety, but I guess it might work for authors buying into the trad pub lottery ticket.
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Perhaps, but peace of mind is a very real thing too. Being a landlord has its headaches, true, but at least in Utah the laws aren't as lopsidedly against you as they are in California or New York. And with all of the crazy financial shenanigans going on right now, I'd rather own hard assets.
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Trad pub is truly brutal.
And yet Quora is full of people all wanting to know how to be trad published.
And full of trad published authors poopooing being Indie.
They have to poopoo (this is a new verb for me) being indie.
Many trad authors aren't getting money, so at least they have the status of "having been traditionally published".
Trad publishing needs to remain as a mark of distinction, or else what have they achieved when their books are out of print and the advance is gone?
Although because she's an "author mentor," this article functions as a clever piece of marketing.
Oooooh. So, it's a marketing piece designed to reach the target audience for her services?
Yeah. All her articles are like that. I'll admit this is smart, it shows vulnerability and past mistakes while at the same time showing off as someone who's "made it". It also generates discussion. It's neat. At the same time, it still shows some naivety, but I guess it might work for authors buying into the trad pub lottery ticket.
Trad pub works well for the small handful who win the publishing lottery, get a bestseller, a movie deal, etc. The problem is that's all most of the public is aware of. Only occasionally, as in this article, do we hear about a trad pubbed author having serious problems. Similarly, the only thing a lot of people know about self-publishing is a few well-publicized scandals and maybe a poorly written self-pubbed book they might have seen and then generalized to all self-pubbed writing.
I don't hear this as much on this forum or on Kboards, but I used to hear a lot on the KDP forum that self-publishing is an inferior alternative--an odd position for people who were themselves self-publishing. One poster, a well-regarded formatter rather than an author, insisted that anyone who was a good writer could be trad published if he or she wanted to and was patient (with the implication that that's what we should be doing). Self-publishing under that theory is for lazy and the incompetent. Oddly, a lot of authors echoed that view, including some who had been successful in trad publishing at one time but whose publishers had gradually lost interest.
It's amazing how far different the reality is. Sure, there are lots in people in self-publishing that don't know what they're doing, but I've read many excellent self-published books. If we removed all identifying information from several books, some trad but not household names and some good self-published and asked people to pick which was which based on the content, I doubt people would do any better than random chance in sorting them.
Being an even remotely successful indie is hard work. It's not easier than the trad path. It's just different, and arguably better for many people.
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
I think he's just throwing some average numbers. Perhaps 1000 copies of each title a year at 2.99 might be more reasonable. It's really not that much.
He's considering a moderately successful indie author versus a moderately successful trad author. Maybe quite a successful trad author, if they got that deal. He's considering some excellent books who might have gotten good trad deals. I think his numbers are OK. He's not assuming every trad deal consists of $150k either.
I have an issue with his math because he forgets interest. 61k in two years is almost the same as 98k in twenty years. Sorry.
Let's assume a modest 3%/year interest. In eighteen years, 61k becomes 103k. So maybe the moral of the story is that being a moderately successful indie author can equal getting big six-digit deals from big publishers. That is an interesting calculation.
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
He addresses this in the comments:
Scott, you take a deep breath, put them out, ignore all the idiots about advertising and who are in a hurry to make a few bucks, and write. Let your books build. They will average over time far above the 42 per month if you do that, just write, get them out, and let it build. Tell your friends, put it on your web site, that sort of thing, but just let it build naturally. It will happen if you keep working on being a better storyteller at the same time.
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
I skimmed, but to my eye he included 40% :icon_eek: taxes for the trade author and for the self-pub author he included 0% :icon_eek: taxes.
He also priced on the low side of typical for trade, and on the high side for self-pub.
And he assumes a level of self-pub sales without advertising that is at best uncommon.
There's an argument to be made here, but this math is suspect.
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But now I don't know why she's whining about 20k advances. Geez, write two books a year and do a couple extras on the side.
The problem is selling two books a year. Finding a publisher is possible if you can write well in a defined genre, but far from easy. Finding two so you can get books out faster than any one trade publisher wants is lottery odds and can run you into contract issues if you aren't careful in how they're worded.
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But now I don't know why she's whining about 20k advances. Geez, write two books a year and do a couple extras on the side.
The problem is selling two books a year. Finding a publisher is possible if you can write well in a defined genre, but far from easy. Finding two so you can get books out faster than any one trade publisher wants is lottery odds and can run you into contract issues if you aren't careful in how they're worded.
Very true. I forgot that.
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Let me just say that if I hadn't had a serious dip in productivity in 2017-2018 and was still recovering sales momentum due to two years of one release each, I would have the perfect proof for this math.
I sell my books at 6.99 each, and yeah, his math works out pretty well for my little niche-y books, assuming regular releases.
I'll be honest, I sat down to do the math to prove him wrong because when I read it, the first thing I did was scoff. :D But shows what I know.
ETA: I do a mailing list for new releases only and no other promo at all. I do have a well-maintained website for my pens. :D
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
He addresses this in the comments:
Scott, you take a deep breath, put them out, ignore all the idiots about advertising and who are in a hurry to make a few bucks, and write. Let your books build. They will average over time far above the 42 per month if you do that, just write, get them out, and let it build. Tell your friends, put it on your web site, that sort of thing, but just let it build naturally. It will happen if you keep working on being a better storyteller at the same time.
Yeah… I call bullsh*t.
For the first six years of my indie writing career, I basically did exactly that. Biggest difference was that I didn't charge $6.99 per book, or whatever DWS tells people to charge. I put out book after book, let my catalog "build naturally." And I improved as a storyteller, as evidenced by the fact that my reviews (all of which are organic btw) have been getting better, and my short stories have been selling more frequently and to higher-paying markets.
I do not average 42 sales per book per month.
In fact, for several of those years, my book sales actually trended down. When Kindle Unlimited came out, it was a major disruption to the market, but I kept plugging along with the "build naturally" strategy without reevaluating my business and adapting to the changing circumstances. As a result, my total book royalties fell between 60% and 80% over the course of 2014 to 2016.
Eventually, I figured out that part of running a business is learning how to market your product effectively. For the past 2-3 years, I've put a lot more time and energy into building my author newsletter and figuring out how best to use it. Because of that, I have a decent sized mailing list that can push between 40-80 full-price sales for a new release. Guess how many sales I got for a new release using the "build naturally" strategy? About 10, if I was lucky.
Dean is an old veteran writer with some very strong opinions born from decades of experience. On some subjects, such as how to write a book, his advice is interesting and useful. On others, much less so. The book industry is in such a state of disruption that strong opinions and decades of past experience are more likely to hold you back than to show you the best way forward.
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I wouldn't want the headaches of being a landlord. Property destruction, tenants who you evict but who refuse to leave, etc. I don't know how any landlord does it without having a nervous breakdown. Instead, I'd invest the bulk of that 375k in things that yielded interest and dividends. You can get a five-figure income from that principal without taking on any significant risk.
As a landlord myself, it's either the best job in the world or the worst job in the world. It depends entirely on the tenant. Back in 2013 I had a family abandon my three-bedroom home. They left $14,000 in damages. Tore holes in the walls just to re-route electric wiring from one of the bedrooms to the backyard so they could hook up a radio and listen to music while burning paint cans and other toxic hazards in a fire pit they dug out of the landscape. There was also so much nicotine coating the walls it looked like sticky copper rain, they cut out and stole the carpet of one bedroom, and drug paraphernalia was found under one bathroom sink. This all happened while I was working full-time outside the home as well, trying to finish my first book series, and was going through tons of testing (and an eventual surgery) to remove a suspicious tumor. It was the second worst time of my life.
I started in this business young, and I put the aforementioned terrible tenants in the property when I was 18. At the time, I didn't run background checks and was relaxed about rules regarding late fees. In order to survive this business you can't be a pushover. I've had much better luck with my last few tenants because I learned the hard way not to give people the benefit of the doubt.
...Or just share a percentage of your rents with a property manager, Joe. That's what I plan on doing eventually when my father's commercial properties are handed down to me. Let someone else tear their hair out while you focus on writing books. grint
Interesting article, by the way. I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said except for I'm so grateful to be an indie writer.
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I've also been listening to this advice for a long time: "Build your catalog, don't put money into advertising, and watch your sales grow organically!" And yeah, my books are not building naturally to bigger amounts of money. If I put out a new book, sometimes people buy it, but more often than not my books get ignored. There's too much competition and once a new release sinks in the ranks it's virtually invisible to readers.
So now I'm trying to learn advertising. Even just experimenting with a few months, I'm already getting better results. Not great, but better than when I did nothing.
But a book advance from writing (and money in most types of creative work) is not the same as a salary. This writer keeps talking about things like, "Why am I getting pay cut?" You didn't get a pay cut, your third book deal was just less money than the first. It wasn't a guaranteed salary.
If you want a reliable salary, find another job.
I didn't have a mentor to take me under their wing or a fancy MFA program. (Took one creative writing class which had zero business advice.) But I did see someone say online once: no one owes you anything for your book. It's not "If you build it, they will come" and "Everyone deserves to tell their story!" You can put your blood, sweat, and tears into your work, but that's meaningless to the rest of the world. No one has to buy your book, or give it a five-star review, or hand you awards.
Even if you are this week's hot new release and #1 on a bestseller list, that won't last. Book 1 selling well does not mean book 2 will also succeed.
And I'm tired of how many people brag about being (fiction) writers but their real income seems to be from "author mentoring" or "how to succeed in Amazon ads online course" or some other service. This writer clearly falls into that category. The "woe is me" article is an ad for you to pay to learn from her mistakes.
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As a landlord myself, it's either the best job in the world or the worst job in the world. It depends entirely on the tenant. Back in 2013 I had a family abandon my three-bedroom home. They left $14,000 in damages. Tore holes in the walls just to re-route electric wiring from one of the bedrooms to the backyard so they could hook up a radio and listen to music while burning paint cans and other toxic hazards in a fire pit they dug out of the landscape. There was also so much nicotine coating the walls it looked like sticky copper rain, they cut out and stole the carpet of one bedroom, and drug paraphernalia was found under one bathroom sink. This all happened while I was working full-time outside the home as well, trying to finish my first book series, and was going through tons of testing (and an eventual surgery) to remove a suspicious tumor. It was the second worst time of my life.
There's no way I could go through all that. Not without resorting to something that would land me in jail. You've got my respect and admiration.
I'll stick to REITs. ;)
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...Or just share a percentage of your rents with a property manager, Joe. That's what I plan on doing eventually when my father's commercial properties are handed down to me. Let someone else tear their hair out while you focus on writing books. grint
All of the property managers around here are ridiculously corrupt. The worst is in Provo, where the local city government is probably corrupt as well. Road construction projects lasting multiple years, and most of the apartments are 3 bed, 1-2 bath units on the verge of being condemned, which they routinely cram six students into. The houses are worse. A couple of years ago, I looked into renting a room in a house where the attic had been turned into a separate unit, with a carpeted bathroom that had no ventilation other than a closet door that opened into the attic storage. Black mold, mmm.
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But the constant NO ONE MENTORED ME whining was like a drill in my ear. And she gripes about how her publisher never printed bookmarks for her after she got huge advances and a book tour! Cry me a river. And I'm
That caught my eye, too. I used to have my Realtor business cards printed by a company I found on Ebay that would do front and back, full color, 1000 cards for less than $25 and that included the shipping. Bookmarks would cost about $40 for that many. For her to sit there and whine about how the publisher wouldn't GIVE her some bookmarks was a major eye-roll for me. :icon_rolleyes:
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She didn't lose 300K, she spent it. She'll be teaching creative writing at a good university whether she publishes again or not. Her story isn't sad at all. She's just a whiner.
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She didn't lose 300K, she spent it. She'll be teaching creative writing at a good university whether she publishes again or not. Her story isn't sad at all. She's just a whiner.
Well, that's like saying the guy that wins $100 million in the lottery and declares bankruptcy five years later didn't lose it. He just spent it all. Spent or lost, it shows a complete lack of understanding in how to make money work for you. Most people, well over 99%, only know how to work for money.
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She didn't lose 300K, she spent it. She'll be teaching creative writing at a good university whether she publishes again or not. Her story isn't sad at all. She's just a whiner.
Well, that's like saying the guy that wins $100 million in the lottery and declares bankruptcy five years later didn't lose it. He just spent it all. Spent or lost, it shows a complete lack of understanding in how to make money work for you. Most people, well over 99%, only know how to work for money.
She'll never be poor. She'll never have to take a real job. But that won't stop her belly-aching.
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She didn't lose 300K, she spent it. She'll be teaching creative writing at a good university whether she publishes again or not. Her story isn't sad at all. She's just a whiner.
Well, that's like saying the guy that wins $100 million in the lottery and declares bankruptcy five years later didn't lose it. He just spent it all. Spent or lost, it shows a complete lack of understanding in how to make money work for you. Most people, well over 99%, only know how to work for money.
That's true, but people used to save. They don't anymore. Only the economic terror of 2009 increased the U.S. savings rate, and it has gone down since then. Meanwhile, personal indebtedness has increased yet again, credit card debt leading the pack. Most calculations don't count mortgage debt; I don't know if they count student loan debt, which is crippling young people--and which the whining author we're talking about also was willing to let ride instead of pay off. Feh.
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I don't know if they count student loan debt, which is crippling young people--and which the whining author we're talking about also was willing to let ride instead of pay off.
I seriously don't get that.
The one year I made a significant income before I started writing, I paid off all my debts first.
Last year, with 3 books in the top 225, I paid off the mortgage I took out in writing year 2. First.
I simply don't understand how anyone with student debt could not pay it off totally as soon as they got money.
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I don't know if they count student loan debt, which is crippling young people--and which the whining author we're talking about also was willing to let ride instead of pay off.
I seriously don't get that.
The one year I made a significant income before I started writing, I paid off all my debts first.
Last year, with 3 books in the top 225, I paid off the mortgage I took out in writing year 2. First.
I simply don't understand how anyone with student debt could not pay it off totally as soon as they got money.
Sometimes the other uses for that money are better choices. If you don't have three months of expenses in the bank it's better to get that in place before paying down a debt like student loan debt which has options like forebearance or deferments if things go south and is generally at a low interest rate as well. In certain markets it may make more sense to invest that money to get the 10% return than pay off the loan that's costing you 3% in interest and comes with a tax deduction depending on income. My step sister immediately paid off her grad school loan the year after she graduated which sounded like a great idea but that left her without the downpayment money to buy a house. She had to keep renting for another two years and lost out on those two years of property appreciation as a result.
Not saying that most people make that kind of reasoned decision, but there are valid arguments for carrying certain types of debt even if you don't have to.
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I simply don't understand how anyone with student debt could not pay it off totally as soon as they got money.
Her naiveté around finances is all over her article. Combined with her lack of personal accountability for her business/life choices it all sort of seems inevitable.
There are lots of people like this. She's far from unique. Every financial downturn exposes tons of similar stories. The hedge fund manager to pizza delivery guy kind. And on a smaller scale the pro athlete or celebrity riches-to-rags story. They're almost cliché these days and they're usually rooted in this (unfortunately) common mindset. I know plenty of people who live this way, heck, I'm related to a few, and they're not otherwise stupid. The just have different financial risk tolerance (or more frequently, no consideration for what they're financially risking.)
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Dean does the math.
https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/the-math/
And assumes all authors can sell 500 copies per title at $6.99 every year never-ending without any marketing costs.
He addresses this in the comments:
Scott, you take a deep breath, put them out, ignore all the idiots about advertising and who are in a hurry to make a few bucks, and write. Let your books build. They will average over time far above the 42 per month if you do that, just write, get them out, and let it build. Tell your friends, put it on your web site, that sort of thing, but just let it build naturally. It will happen if you keep working on being a better storyteller at the same time.
I listened to this advice at the beginning of my self-pub career. My advice, and I don't often give it, is don't do this.
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Trad pub is truly brutal.
And yet Quora is full of people all wanting to know how to be trad published.
I remember reading this, Stay Away From Traditional Book Publishing (https://www.deanwesleysmith.com/stay-away-from-traditional-book-publishing/). That was enough to put me off even thinking about any offer that may come my way. Although, if this hobby turns out to be anything more than that, I'd enjoy the challenge of making it as an indie.
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Pooh-pooh
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pooh-pooh
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Pooh-pooh
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pooh-pooh
Living and learning.
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I didn't have a mentor to take me under their wing or a fancy MFA program. (Took one creative writing class which had zero business advice.) But I did see someone say online once: no one owes you anything for your book. It's not "If you build it, they will come" and "Everyone deserves to tell their story!" You can put your blood, sweat, and tears into your work, but that's meaningless to the rest of the world. No one has to buy your book, or give it a five-star review, or hand you awards.
In essence, that's true for every business company. No person in this world has to buy your products, nobody owes you anything in business.
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The older I get, the more thankful I am that my parents taught me how to manage money, and for whatever reason, those lessons stuck. (They didn't stick as well with my siblings.)
Financial education is sorely lacking in the US, both culturally and as part of formal schooling.
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Well, I'm one of those who paid off all debt with my first writing income, and I sometimes sit and wonder what I'd do with the money if I ever won the lottery (which won't happen since I don't buy tickets). I actually can't think of much.
I'm not sure it has as much to do with financial education as basic personality. Those of us who consider a couple pairs of jeans, a couple t-shirts for summer and sweatshirts for winter a sufficient wardrobe, an older car fine so long as it's reliable, and once a month often enough to eat out just look at the world differently than those on the other side of the spectrum.
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Financial education is sorely lacking in the US, both culturally and as part of formal schooling.
I agree and have always thought that financial education should be a required course in high school. However, given the fact that most people, including teachers, haven't got a clue as to handle their money it would be a case of the blind leading the blind. :roll:
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The older I get, the more thankful I am that my parents taught me how to manage money, and for whatever reason, those lessons stuck. (They didn't stick as well with my siblings.)
Financial education is sorely lacking in the US, both culturally and as part of formal schooling.
Are you me? Or do we have the same siblings?
Back to school night tonight. They've added financial education to the health curriculum in our district. They get a salary and a mortgage and they also have to pick a health insurance company. Then they get 3 symptoms and have to diagnosis themselves on WebMD and see what the inexpensive insurance is going to end up costing them (we're in the US).
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From what my parents have told me, it was more common in earlier eras (they want to HS during the Great Depression) for schools to offer courses in practical subjects like personal financial planning. One of the problems in more recent times has been where to squeeze it in. When my parents went to school, the average person didn't go beyond high school. There were plenty of decent-paying jobs that didn't require college. In a lot of high schools today, virtually everyone is planning on going to college, and colleges have a lot more requirements about what they want to see on the high school transcript. Highly selective colleges also pretty much demand considerable extracurricular commitments. More recently, many of them also started pushing community service. I've known some students who graduated from high school with incredibly impressive resumes but a big gap in the practical knowledge department.
(That's not universally true, however. For instance, I knew a student who started a online resale business with his brother and grossed about $30,000 a year. They were the only two employees and handled all the necessary paperwork, shipping, etc. That's not bad for two high school kids. I also knew one who ran a web design business and had several corporate clients.)
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Yes it definitely is hard for the schools to squeeze everything in. I was thinking about it last night, the health teacher said she would teach them how to write a check. I was writing checks by the time I was eight, probably. We had to pay for the Archie comics ourselves, so I would take my money out of my piggie bank, leave the cash on my dad's desk, write a check, fill out the order form and mail it. My fourteen year old has never written a check, and I don't even know if she can address an envelope. I really do try to teach my kids to do stuff themselves, working on cooking all the time, but some things just never come up anymore. They do handwrite thank you cards so I need to stop being lazy about that.
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There's also the issue of children being willing to learn any of this stuff, what we try to teach them at home or what schools attempt to teach them. When children arrogantly insist that email is dead and "dead tree" information is useless, it's hard to get heard about what steps they can or should take to conduct the business of being an adult. Many people only wake up and listen once they get into hot water of some kind.
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Some people are born spenders; some people are born not-spenders. Most in the middle; everyone influenced by experience. Not sure how far formal education can get you unless it is a precise fit for your experience; and maybe personality.
She was young and inexperienced, tried to be sensible but was overwhelmed by apparently easy success. Not a common problem for writers, but a very common problem in music. Many later lament their naivety, but, at the time, they were surrounded by experienced professionals looking out for their own % and not the artist's, and told they are earning 100k a gig and no-one mentions all the costs and deductions from that figure. They believe they are earning a lot when they're not. And then, a couple of years later, they are hit by the tax. When they have no money left. And that’s the end of any assets they bought to be sensible.
Even at the time, that was one hell of an advance for a new author. Must have been strongly sold by her agent and right in the height of fashion, and fashions change. But she won't have realised that. She'd've thought they wanted her because she was really good. And the next advance would have confirmed that view. And really good = earnings forever. No-one would have explained that an advance is not the same as earnings and that predicting future earnings meant looking at current earnings not advances.
And, somehow, it seems she got these contracts before she had written the books. Naturally she accepted the money, but that left her with a pile of work that she had already been paid for - and presumably deadlines with it. That's fine if your productivity is high and you're keeping up with the timetable, but one little thing goes wrong and pressures become intense. With no possibility of money coming in until she completes the work.
I always find it very sad when so many writers believe they can only achieve an adequate income by selling to wannabe writers rather than readers.
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I'm a very careful spender, but when I have a good month (say, post-bookbub) I notice I'll get that little extra bit of shopping, or buy a *cough* $400 video card for gaming. (Hey, I got 20% off.)
It's these rewards that make the long hours of hard work worth it.
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In my experience people who have experienced a serious lack of money at some point can sometimes go a bit over the top with spending if they suddenly have a bit more than enough. So I can sympathise, up to a point.
(By the way, I don't think I've written a check/cheque for several years. Even when paying a tradesman for fitting new kitchen flooring, I added him as a payee in my bank account and transferred the money across to him immediately. We also use contactless quite a lot)
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A period of severe financial distress can shape one ever afterward. I know someone who lived in poverty during graduate school and decades later as a full professor still cannot easily bring herself to spend money.
Our economy is based on consumerism and no one should feel particularly guilty about occasionally yielding to the impulse to spend unnecessarily. This woman thought she'd made it big and would continue to do so, a mistake born of hope but also a surprisingly deep core of ignorance about the publishing business.
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Ya gotta luv the way people knock DWS for doing things HIS way and writing about it. If it weren't for him, many writers would still be waiting by the mailbox for a SASE return and the cobwebs to disappear in the morning dew.
I think (I could be wrong, of course, just as many of you are convinced DWS knows nothing) what DWS had in mind with his post was a comparison of the two publishing methods, not a rule to live by. Many things are easier to see when one does a comparison of methods. You know, compare and contrast?
Anyway, whatevs. Good luck with selling your writing.
Dean is not the only person who says the old method of becoming a published author is not the best method today, but some people do not want to hear it.
However, his specific advice about what to publish and how much to publish and how quickly to publish should be viewed with the lens of YMMV. What he says for sure will happen simply does not happen for all writers or for all books. I have some books that do not sell, and so do many authors. We're not getting those lovely extra dollars per book in sales each month that add up to a living. These aren't "bad" books, mind you, but for various reasons, the public does not embrace them. Therefore, I'm not willing to take his philosophy as gospel. It helps some people and doesn't help others.