Beta Reader

[JRTomlin]

I'm at a bit of a loss at finding a new beta reader. The same person has done beta reading for me for a number of years but because of serious health issues is no longer able to. Now I am trying to figure out how to go about finding a new beta reader and haven't a clue. I don't want to ask my mailing list because you don't want a fan for a beta reader (imo). So does anyone have suggestions about how to find a new beta reader?

[Dennis Chekalov]

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/list_group/50920-beta-reader-group
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/104076-beta-proof-readers

If you need a pro beta reader, there are several here, a lot of them on Fiverr.
If you need a cheap pro, try Upwork.

[JRTomlin]

Thanks. I don't mind paying for a good beta reader at all. Appreciate the suggestions.

[dgcasey]

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/list_group/50920-beta-reader-group
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/104076-beta-proof-readers

If you need a pro beta reader, there are several here, a lot of them on Fiverr.
If you need a cheap pro, try Upwork.

I never found any luck at goodreads. I sent out about a dozen copies of a couple of books I tried this with and didn't hear back from any of them. These are the same books that seem to be getting a good reception with buyers, but nothing from the betas.

[Dennis Chekalov]

Please keep in mind that it's always worth to ask for a free sample when you hire someone (250-1000 words, some freelancers offer even more); but on Upwork, asking for free samples is against the TOS. Not sure about Fiverr.

[hardnox]

Whenever I see a callout like this I recommend Catherine Skinner because she is just doggone good. You will get a chapter-by-chapter critique, overall reading notes, manuscript margin notes, a light proofread, and all for a very reasonable price. My experience with her has always been positive.

https://yourbetareader.com/

[JRTomlin]

Thanks for the recommendation.

[LilyBLily]

I second Cat Skinner.

Also:

Anna Albo  https://www.annaalbo.com/editorial-services/

Courtney Galloway https://www.courtneygalloway.com/

Maia Sepp http://www.maiasepp.com/mincedwords.html

[JRTomlin]

Thanks! It isn't necessarily easy to find just the right beta reader to work with medieval HF, so it may take a few tries.

[LilyBLily]

Yes, you have to find the right person, not just any person. There have been many offers on this and other boards for various services, but when the person leads with sf or thrillers as their first area of interest, I go on to someone else. I write women's fiction and romance, and those are pretty specialized.

[VanessaC]

I also second Maia Sepp - she's fantastic for many things, and I suspect adapts to whoever she's reading for.  With me, she's great for picking up internal inconsistencies and pushing me to get deeper into the character's emotions, and not afraid to tell me when it just doesn't work. Love working with her.

ETA - for me, Maia feels more like a mini developmental edit - lots of inline comments and a covering report. I have used another paid beta reader who had a much lighter touch (and lighter cost) which was also really useful, but a very different approach.  So, I guess it depends on what you are looking to get out of the process, too.

[Denise]

I've used beta readers on Fiverr.

These are good for my genre (YA fantasy), but I don't know about your genre. Either way they are booked and you need to message them explaining your project, etc. and they'll see if they're a good fit.

 https://www.fiverr.com/sarahmaew/manuscript-proofreading-services-by-yours-truly

https://www.fiverr.com/booksandcaffine/beta-read-your-book


They give you chapter-by-chapter insight, side notes, and a very light proofread. But then, again, I think historical fantasy might need a very specific kind of beta reader.

[Denise]

I also second Maia Sepp - she's fantastic for many things, and I suspect adapts to whoever she's reading for.  With me, she's great for picking up internal inconsistencies and pushing me to get deeper into the character's emotions, and not afraid to tell me when it just doesn't work. Love working with her.

ETA - for me, Maia feels more like a mini developmental edit - lots of inline comments and a covering report. I have used another paid beta reader who had a much lighter touch (and lighter cost) which was also really useful, but a very different approach.  So, I guess it depends on what you are looking to get out of the process, too.

Maia's prices are expensive for a beta reader but cheap for a developmental editor. What kind of comments does she give?

Sounds interesting, but I'd certainly try to sample edit. I've had so much disappointment with expensive beta readers that lately I've only chosen cheaper beta readers (and still had some disappointments).

[LilyBLily]

I try to get two or three beta readers per ms. Two are usually enough and four--well, that's a luxury. Each one has a different attitude but if they all come down on a particular thing I know it's a problem. I would not necessarily follow their suggestions for fixing it, however. I still have to find my own way.

When I started as an indie I begged friends and also got four or five volunteer readers who were a relative's friends, but I found that more often than not they simply did not do the job. Forget about in a timely manner. And to be blunt, being told that my story is not their cup of tea is not helpful. Now I make a point of finding paid beta readers who like and know my subgenres. I also stick with women, because I write for women and it's more efficient on both sides. I feel guilty about paying so little to beta readers, so the least I can do is send them the kinds of stories they enjoy reading. 

I ask specifically for in-text or at least end-of-chapter commenting. I want an emotional reaction, not a logical one such as a developmental editor would give. I also feel I don't pay enough to ask for higher level editorial commenting, so I don't ask for that.

[JRTomlin]

I think liking and knowing your genre is a big requirement. I am definitely not comfortable with a beta reader who won't say what genres they work on or what they like.

[IW Ferguson]

there are short bios for four beta readers available for hire here: http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/beta-reader/
I used this company, though the readers have changed since then. The feedback I got was somewhat helpful, and the company was good to deal with.

[LilyBLily]

there are short bios for four beta readers available for hire here: http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/beta-reader/
I used this company, though the readers have changed since then. The feedback I got was somewhat helpful, and the company was good to deal with.

Alas, they all prefer sf/fantasy/paranormal. No romance.

[hardnox]

there are short bios for four beta readers available for hire here: http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/beta-reader/
I used this company, though the readers have changed since then. The feedback I got was somewhat helpful, and the company was good to deal with.

Alas, they all prefer sf/fantasy/paranormal. No romance.

I have used Brandee for historical fiction twice and she did a great job. Good sense of plot flow and dynamics. But I agree, what you said seems to be the bias there.

[JRTomlin]

I notice that they all say they read HF which is rather unusual. I may drop them a line. I don't see that they say they do a sample though which is a requirement for me before I work with someone.

[hardnox]

I notice that they all say they read HF which is rather unusual. I may drop them a line. I don't see that they say they do a sample though which is a requirement for me before I work with someone.

Adam Poe is the guy who coordinates with the readers. You can always ask for a sample read and see what he says. He's a reasonable guy. Just use the form on their website.

[JRTomlin]

Thanks. I'll do that. Since they all at least read historical fiction, they look like a good place to give a try.

[VanessaC]

I also second Maia Sepp - she's fantastic for many things, and I suspect adapts to whoever she's reading for.  With me, she's great for picking up internal inconsistencies and pushing me to get deeper into the character's emotions, and not afraid to tell me when it just doesn't work. Love working with her.

ETA - for me, Maia feels more like a mini developmental edit - lots of inline comments and a covering report. I have used another paid beta reader who had a much lighter touch (and lighter cost) which was also really useful, but a very different approach.  So, I guess it depends on what you are looking to get out of the process, too.

Maia's prices are expensive for a beta reader but cheap for a developmental editor. What kind of comments does she give?

Sounds interesting, but I'd certainly try to sample edit. I've had so much disappointment with expensive beta readers that lately I've only chosen cheaper beta readers (and still had some disappointments).

I am sure Maia does samples, so you do get to try before you buy. Yes, her prices are high for beta reading, but every time I've used her not only has the book been much better, I have also learned more as a writer which I can put in to the next book.

Examples of some of the things she picks up on:
- major plot points - do they work, where they fall flat, where more foreshadowing is needed
- inconsistencies in plot - which can be niggling little things like making sure the time taken to travel is consistent
- character development - if it's consistent, and where more backstory / emotion would be helpful
- and also, where she sees it, some editing matters like weird phrasing / words, missing words, typos, etc.

I just checked my last MS that she read for me and it had over 500 inline comments on the Word document (including quite a few frustrating minor typos) plus a covering report of about 8 sides of A4.

All this might be old hat to you, and you may not need it, or even find it useful - everyone's different. 

I consider myself still at the start of my writing career, and I'm also one of those people who learns best by doing, so this kind of personal feedback is incredibly helpful for me.

[Denise]

I just checked my last MS that she read for me and it had over 500 inline comments on the Word document (including quite a few frustrating minor typos) plus a covering report of about 8 sides of A4.

All this might be old hat to you, and you may not need it, or even find it useful - everyone's different. 

I consider myself still at the start of my writing career, and I'm also one of those people who learns best by doing, so this kind of personal feedback is incredibly helpful for me.

That sounds good.

I'm also starting, and I'm a firm believer that writing quality is the most important factor affecting a writer's success, so I guess it can be a good investment if you learn from it.

[JRTomlin]

Unfortunately being 'open to reading genres' does not equate to understanding the genre and its expectations. I admit that puts me off. Of course, it doesn't mean she isn't good and I don't mean that.

[Denise]

Unfortunately being 'open to reading genres' does not equate to understanding the genre and its expectations. I admit that puts me off. Of course, it doesn't mean she isn't good and I don't mean that.

True. I didn't notice that. It is a problem.

[JRTomlin]

I suppose the only way to judge is to see if she will beta a sample and see if she understands your genre. With Historical Fiction, especially medieval, I can tell almost immediately if someone isn't familiar with it.

If they give me advice that is suitable for fantasy, for example, I go 'ruh-roh'.

[LilyBLily]

I thought only dogs made that noise. In movies.

[JRTomlin]

Dogs and historical fiction writers who are told well... I won't list the things I've been told, but there are things in every genre that are a given that you just don't have to explain. 😜